I started my career as an "As- built - technician" in Los Angeles area. So the job was easy - measuring the buildings with ruler and Disto for the guy who was drafting them in CAD, 2D floorplans, elevations, etc.
Soon, I realized that there is a much more sophisticated way of collecting measurements by using a drone for photogrammetry and terrestrial LiDAR. I got equipment (Trimble scanner, drone, 107 license, photogrammetry software, scan registration programs) learned everything myself and got to a level at which my models were very accurate, but the guy that I worked for does have a clue what to do with them. He works in 2D and doesn't want to change his workflow.
So, my question is: who in your profession can benefit from my knowledge, who should I target to offer my services?
joseffischer
Mar 21, 24 3:40 pm
if this isn't just some veiled ad in disguise and you're actually asking architects...
most architects work in 3d these days in some way using a combination of softwares, but I'll stick to what I've found to be the most common, sketchup and revit. If you're trying to give a revit junkie a scan, we typically get it and/or pass it htrough recap. You can take .rcp files imported directly into revit but I find it faster to have recap and revit open and build the revit model from scratch. Of the companies that do this for us (multivista is a national one that's not very good, definitely don't rely on their revit modeling services) I find the ones that due targeted scans floor by floor, vertical circulation, and exterior, as separate models, to be best.
If you are trying to do a full-service effort, especially for 2d folks, you're going to need to figure out your own way to provided them a .rvt/.dwg/or whatever file and be able to confirm what you built actually matches the existing conditions with your measuring tool of choice (tape/laser measure). If you can provide models accurately consistently, people will pay for it... otherwise it's just a waste of time. Plenty of firms build their own models even when they feel they can trust the provided models.
Final thought, my understanding is photogrammetry is different from scanning (photos vs points/pixels) the former looks all cool from a drone, from far away, but is useless for modeling work.
Dmi3ne3
Mar 21, 24 5:30 pm
Thanks for the answer. Yes, I don't want to draft and the models that I build from terrestrial scanner are done with targets, the point cloud that is done from photogrammetry is covering the roof and helps model a site plan. The cloud from photogrammetry and terrestrial stations are stitched in recap. What I was asking was: who should I target in your profession to offer these kinds of services? Or maybe, how do you guys deal with this problem when you need a point cloud from an existing structure? Do you rent a scanner or do you own one? If you are hiring a professional - how much does this service cost?
Chad Miller
Mar 21, 24 5:48 pm
If you can't provide the AE firms with either an AutoCAD fille (2d - plans, elevations), or a Revit file then it's a waste of our time.
joseffischer
Mar 22, 24 9:55 am
I guess YMMV Chad, we get recap files and build from there. I trust the raw data a lot more than a 3rd party revit file. @Dmi3ne3, you're unfortunately running into some macroeconomic issues. Architects as clients run on low fees, so consultants get even less. You're in the same boat as spec writers, waterproofing consultants, elev consultants, and even print shops. In fact many firms doing scanning also do some or all of the above. I've never paid more than $5k for a model, more like $1500 for a day's scanning. The good firms do this accurately with 24-hr turnarounds from scanning to editing.
I think you might get more money from construction companies, the scanning would be easier and ongoing, they like to scan slabs for flatness, things like that, during construction. However, I know many GCs who do their own scanning in-house. Still, you're competing as a 3rd party with in-house project engineers on the GC side, which are paid way better than in-house arch interns, so your daily fee could be higher.
Chad Miller
Mar 22, 24 10:16 am
How much time do you take converting a point file to a useable file, then remodeling it?
joseffischer
Mar 22, 24 2:20 pm
the point file is a usable file, I open it and take measurements directly. Some people are faster than others at modeling, but this step would be the same as modeling from an old set of .pdfs or modeling from a client's set of .dwgs. If anything, the point cloud file provides more information.
I find the controls, flexibility, and speed zooming around in recap to be very similar to sketchup, same measuring tool functionality as well.
Like I said earlier, some people import the .rcp into revit and try to model 'on top of' the point file. it slows revit down and revit's already slow. I can model circles around people with that workflow.
joseffischer
Mar 22, 24 2:23 pm
another point of note, modeling it in-house means we used all our in-house revit families. We'd have to work pretty closely with a 3rd party and familiarize them on our families if we were going to receive a revit model from them.
Dmi3ne3
Mar 22, 24 11:54 am
Oh, joseffischer, thank you for an inside. It's so valuable for me. I really appreciate it.
Miyadaiku
May 15, 24 2:07 am
I would target people doing work on buildings with intricate existing systems like medical or industrial facilities. It needs to have a level of complexity that warrants that level of measurement.
Otherwise, for simple buildings most firms will probably just send an intern with a laser tape, camera and a notebook to measure basic stuff like walls, columns, beams and roofs rather than contract out sophisticated services like point cloud data collection. (I was that guy on many occasions as an intern)
Hello all. I'm looking for advice from pros here.
I started my career as an "As- built - technician" in Los Angeles area. So the job was easy - measuring the buildings with ruler and Disto for the guy who was drafting them in CAD, 2D floorplans, elevations, etc.
Soon, I realized that there is a much more sophisticated way of collecting measurements by using a drone for photogrammetry and terrestrial LiDAR. I got equipment (Trimble scanner, drone, 107 license, photogrammetry software, scan registration programs) learned everything myself and got to a level at which my models were very accurate, but the guy that I worked for does have a clue what to do with them. He works in 2D and doesn't want to change his workflow.
So, my question is: who in your profession can benefit from my knowledge, who should I target to offer my services?
if this isn't just some veiled ad in disguise and you're actually asking architects...
most architects work in 3d these days in some way using a combination of softwares, but I'll stick to what I've found to be the most common, sketchup and revit. If you're trying to give a revit junkie a scan, we typically get it and/or pass it htrough recap. You can take .rcp files imported directly into revit but I find it faster to have recap and revit open and build the revit model from scratch. Of the companies that do this for us (multivista is a national one that's not very good, definitely don't rely on their revit modeling services) I find the ones that due targeted scans floor by floor, vertical circulation, and exterior, as separate models, to be best.
If you are trying to do a full-service effort, especially for 2d folks, you're going to need to figure out your own way to provided them a .rvt/.dwg/or whatever file and be able to confirm what you built actually matches the existing conditions with your measuring tool of choice (tape/laser measure). If you can provide models accurately consistently, people will pay for it... otherwise it's just a waste of time. Plenty of firms build their own models even when they feel they can trust the provided models.
Final thought, my understanding is photogrammetry is different from scanning (photos vs points/pixels) the former looks all cool from a drone, from far away, but is useless for modeling work.
Thanks for the answer. Yes, I don't want to draft and the models that I build from terrestrial scanner are done with targets, the point cloud that is done from photogrammetry is covering the roof and helps model a site plan. The cloud from photogrammetry and terrestrial stations are stitched in recap. What I was asking was: who should I target in your profession to offer these kinds of services? Or maybe, how do you guys deal with this problem when you need a point cloud from an existing structure? Do you rent a scanner or do you own one? If you are hiring a professional - how much does this service cost?
If you can't provide the AE firms with either an AutoCAD fille (2d - plans, elevations), or a Revit file then it's a waste of our time.
I guess YMMV Chad, we get recap files and build from there. I trust the raw data a lot more than a 3rd party revit file. @Dmi3ne3, you're unfortunately running into some macroeconomic issues. Architects as clients run on low fees, so consultants get even less. You're in the same boat as spec writers, waterproofing consultants, elev consultants, and even print shops. In fact many firms doing scanning also do some or all of the above. I've never paid more than $5k for a model, more like $1500 for a day's scanning. The good firms do this accurately with 24-hr turnarounds from scanning to editing.
I think you might get more money from construction companies, the scanning would be easier and ongoing, they like to scan slabs for flatness, things like that, during construction. However, I know many GCs who do their own scanning in-house. Still, you're competing as a 3rd party with in-house project engineers on the GC side, which are paid way better than in-house arch interns, so your daily fee could be higher.
How much time do you take converting a point file to a useable file, then remodeling it?
the point file is a usable file, I open it and take measurements directly. Some people are faster than others at modeling, but this step would be the same as modeling from an old set of .pdfs or modeling from a client's set of .dwgs. If anything, the point cloud file provides more information.
I find the controls, flexibility, and speed zooming around in recap to be very similar to sketchup, same measuring tool functionality as well.
Like I said earlier, some people import the .rcp into revit and try to model 'on top of' the point file. it slows revit down and revit's already slow. I can model circles around people with that workflow.
another point of note, modeling it in-house means we used all our in-house revit families. We'd have to work pretty closely with a 3rd party and familiarize them on our families if we were going to receive a revit model from them.
Oh, joseffischer, thank you for an inside. It's so valuable for me. I really appreciate it.
I would target people doing work on buildings with intricate existing systems like medical or industrial facilities. It needs to have a level of complexity that warrants that level of measurement.
Otherwise, for simple buildings most firms will probably just send an intern with a laser tape, camera and a notebook to measure basic stuff like walls, columns, beams and roofs rather than contract out sophisticated services like point cloud data collection. (I was that guy on many occasions as an intern)