I'm in my late 30's switching into architecture. I'm creating my shortlist of schools in the Northeast. Syracuse is cheaper and has a more beatifical and larger campus than Rensselaer Polytechnic. However I like both campuses and the fact they are in upstate NY. SU is about $35k per year. RPI is $50k. I don't want to apply to both to compare how much funding they will give me. I'm applying to seven schools max and I already have decided on four. But from what I know, often the higher sticker price schools have more funds and end up being cheaper. I can't bank on this so I will assume I'll have to pay full-price.
RPI is higher ranked, an yes that does matter to me an employers. But is it worth it? I'm not rich so it would be all loans. I plan to work until I retire so that gives me 30 years or so working. I would be paying off the loan, worst case scenario, for 15 years. So the second half of my career will be completely unaffected by the tuition of my alma mater. Nevertheless, for 10 to 15 years it will. Is the benefit of rubbing elbows with the richer kids at RPI worth it? I hope to start my own practice one day. Will it be more likely for my rich buddies to contract me for to have a a sunroom extension for their McMansion in Scarsdale if I go to RPI? Or is it more likely their play money is tied up trying to get their son off the hook for his third DUI?
Non Sequitur
Oct 27, 23 12:30 pm
Rankings mean nothing. Pick the absolute cheapest accredited program. 35k per year is criminal.
Zorbon the Builder
Oct 27, 23 6:43 pm
35k is average in the USA for private schools. State schools are like 15 to 20k but usually no funding. So Ironically, a place like RPI could be cheaper if you impress their adcom.
Non Sequitur
Oct 27, 23 8:13 pm
...and that's why the rest of the world laughs and pities the US. even 15kusd is too much.
Josh Mings
Oct 27, 23 12:37 pm
Employer here - rankings don't mean anything. Now, if you have a firm in mind that is run by an RPI alum, that might help you get in for an interview - but school is what you make of it.
Zorbon the Builder
Oct 27, 23 6:40 pm
Thanks. I mean for like big name firms in NY, Boston etc. I see many top ranked and Ivy League grads there. Those place seem to care. Or is this not as important as it seems?
If I am to go into architecture, I want to go all in and graduate from the best school that will take me. I'd be willing to go to Yale and pay the 50k. But Is a place like RPI worth the 50k? Isn't this the school Ayan Rand mocks in The Fountainhead? I remember it being in Upstate NY. But that could also be Cornell, Syracuse, RIT or SUNY Buffalo.
bowling_ball
Oct 27, 23 10:51 pm
Employer here as well - I couldn't care less where you went to school. It might open up a door for your very first interviews, but that's it. I can't speak to connections from an Ivy school because I went to the cheapest one I could find that would accept me - I graduated with just $65k in debt (inflation adjusted) and even that took me about 7 years to pay off, working full time as an architect. I think you're very much underestimating the burden of that debt. I wasn't able to rub two nickels together to buy even a cheap home in that time. I like your approach but proceed with caution where debt is involved.
Josh Mings
Oct 27, 23 11:59 pm
The Fountainhead is the worst book ever.
b3tadine[sutures]
Oct 28, 23 11:59 am
The movie is great!
b3tadine[sutures]
Oct 27, 23 7:28 pm
Ugh. Find the school that aligns with your thinking. Go there. Find the handful of people who are able to bring you the best experience.
Archi-Fartsy
Oct 28, 23 12:48 am
This topic seems to come up a lot on this forum... And I’m super passionate when I state my opinion to say: an expensive architecture degree is not one tiny bit worth it. Don’t bury yourself in debt for this degree… it’s not law school or medical school or a fancy MBA that has guaranteed ROI directly out of college. Architects, whether coming out of a cheap school or a fancy school, have to work their way up the same / Pass AREs the same. Expensive degrees don’t allow you to skip any leaning that happens in your professional career. I’m a facilities owner/architect that hires Architects. The only thing I care about on a proposal about project team members is the license and experience. Find the cheapest path to licensure, figure out the market segment you would like to specialize in, and become an expert. Build your experience (and education if possible) to become an industry leader in that segment. (Healthcare Facilities is a terrific option BTW) Then get versed in that industry, start your own firm if you so choose and kick ass / collect checks! Best of luck to you!
bowling_ball
Oct 28, 23 12:28 pm
Truly excellent advice
Alvin Huang, AIA, NOMA
Oct 28, 23 10:31 am
As an educator and employer, I think the thing that is being overlooked in nearly all of these statements is fit. Architecture School - much like the architectural profession - is relational, not transactional. What that means is you are not buying a degree, in addition to your money...you will be spending your time, effort, and engagement at this institution (with its faculty, and with your cohort) for the next 3 years. You need to make sure you are not only getting the most value for your money, but that you are getting the value that aligns with your own pedagogical, philosophical, and professional priorities.
Each school has a particular design culture, faculty specializations, and educational/research/professional opportunities. Especially at the graduate level, who your faculty are definitely determines quite a bit about what ideologies you get exposed to and ultimately what design path you end up taking. Spend some time attending information sessions, visiting schools, and getting to know them for their culture, who their faculty are, what their students are doing, and how you might fit into and take advantage of what each institution is able to offer. I also recommend checking out their Instagram accounts, hashtags, and geotagged locations to see what their students and faculty are posting and sharing because that gives a lot of great on the ground insight.
bowling_ball
Oct 29, 23 12:07 am
It's excellent advice to do your research, but I couldn't disagree more about the relational/ transactional split you write about. Until your education is fully paid by the school, it's transactional by default. You're not fooling anybody. Get in, get out, move on. That piece of paper is all I was ever after, and in the past ten years I've surpassed 99.9% of my cohorts in terms of income, influence, and directing my own career. If I were to do it all over again, I'd care even less.
I'm in my late 30's switching into architecture. I'm creating my shortlist of schools in the Northeast. Syracuse is cheaper and has a more beatifical and larger campus than Rensselaer Polytechnic. However I like both campuses and the fact they are in upstate NY. SU is about $35k per year. RPI is $50k. I don't want to apply to both to compare how much funding they will give me. I'm applying to seven schools max and I already have decided on four. But from what I know, often the higher sticker price schools have more funds and end up being cheaper. I can't bank on this so I will assume I'll have to pay full-price.
RPI is higher ranked, an yes that does matter to me an employers. But is it worth it? I'm not rich so it would be all loans. I plan to work until I retire so that gives me 30 years or so working. I would be paying off the loan, worst case scenario, for 15 years. So the second half of my career will be completely unaffected by the tuition of my alma mater. Nevertheless, for 10 to 15 years it will. Is the benefit of rubbing elbows with the richer kids at RPI worth it? I hope to start my own practice one day. Will it be more likely for my rich buddies to contract me for to have a a sunroom extension for their McMansion in Scarsdale if I go to RPI? Or is it more likely their play money is tied up trying to get their son off the hook for his third DUI?
Rankings mean nothing. Pick the absolute cheapest accredited program. 35k per year is criminal.
35k is average in the USA for private schools. State schools are like 15 to 20k but usually no funding. So Ironically, a place like RPI could be cheaper if you impress their adcom.
...and that's why the rest of the world laughs and pities the US. even 15kusd is too much.
Employer here - rankings don't mean anything. Now, if you have a firm in mind that is run by an RPI alum, that might help you get in for an interview - but school is what you make of it.
Thanks. I mean for like big name firms in NY, Boston etc. I see many top ranked and Ivy League grads there. Those place seem to care. Or is this not as important as it seems?
If I am to go into architecture, I want to go all in and graduate from the best school that will take me. I'd be willing to go to Yale and pay the 50k. But Is a place like RPI worth the 50k? Isn't this the school Ayan Rand mocks in The Fountainhead? I remember it being in Upstate NY. But that could also be Cornell, Syracuse, RIT or SUNY Buffalo.
Employer here as well - I couldn't care less where you went to school. It might open up a door for your very first interviews, but that's it. I can't speak to connections from an Ivy school because I went to the cheapest one I could find that would accept me - I graduated with just $65k in debt (inflation adjusted) and even that took me about 7 years to pay off, working full time as an architect. I think you're very much underestimating the burden of that debt. I wasn't able to rub two nickels together to buy even a cheap home in that time. I like your approach but proceed with caution where debt is involved.
The Fountainhead is the worst book ever.
The movie is great!
Ugh. Find the school that aligns with your thinking. Go there. Find the handful of people who are able to bring you the best experience.
This topic seems to come up a lot on this forum... And I’m super passionate when I state my opinion to say: an expensive architecture degree is not one tiny bit worth it. Don’t bury yourself in debt for this degree… it’s not law school or medical school or a fancy MBA that has guaranteed ROI directly out of college. Architects, whether coming out of a cheap school or a fancy school, have to work their way up the same / Pass AREs the same. Expensive degrees don’t allow you to skip any leaning that happens in your professional career. I’m a facilities owner/architect that hires Architects. The only thing I care about on a proposal about project team members is the license and experience. Find the cheapest path to licensure, figure out the market segment you would like to specialize in, and become an expert. Build your experience (and education if possible) to become an industry leader in that segment. (Healthcare Facilities is a terrific option BTW) Then get versed in that industry, start your own firm if you so choose and kick ass / collect checks! Best of luck to you!
Truly excellent advice
As an educator and employer, I think the thing that is being overlooked in nearly all of these statements is fit. Architecture School - much like the architectural profession - is relational, not transactional. What that means is you are not buying a degree, in addition to your money...you will be spending your time, effort, and engagement at this institution (with its faculty, and with your cohort) for the next 3 years. You need to make sure you are not only getting the most value for your money, but that you are getting the value that aligns with your own pedagogical, philosophical, and professional priorities.
Each school has a particular design culture, faculty specializations, and educational/research/professional opportunities. Especially at the graduate level, who your faculty are definitely determines quite a bit about what ideologies you get exposed to and ultimately what design path you end up taking. Spend some time attending information sessions, visiting schools, and getting to know them for their culture, who their faculty are, what their students are doing, and how you might fit into and take advantage of what each institution is able to offer. I also recommend checking out their Instagram accounts, hashtags, and geotagged locations to see what their students and faculty are posting and sharing because that gives a lot of great on the ground insight.
It's excellent advice to do your research, but I couldn't disagree more about the relational/ transactional split you write about. Until your education is fully paid by the school, it's transactional by default. You're not fooling anybody. Get in, get out, move on. That piece of paper is all I was ever after, and in the past ten years I've surpassed 99.9% of my cohorts in terms of income, influence, and directing my own career. If I were to do it all over again, I'd care even less.