I am in the process of applying to a few different MArch programs for Fall 2024 and wanted some opinions and thoughts from industry professionals, and/or those who went through the same dilemma. I understand it ultimately depends on my acceptance, but it will also help me place priority on which applications I allot more of my time and energy to.
I'm born and raised in Calgary, have lived abroad for a few years to gain some "life experience and perspective". I have lived in Vancouver for most of my undergraduate and am familiar with both Toronto and New York (from vacations and visits).
There are my top 4 choices I am planning to submit an application to (and their tuition cost)
-UofC SAPL (~$10k per year)
-UBC SALA (~$7.5k per year)
-UofT Daniels (~$11.4k per year)
-Columbia GSAPP (~$72.3k per year)
The list starts chronologically from most economical to most opportunity. I am from a middle-class background and will be taking loans regardless. I will be 30 in Fall 2024.
My current goal / aspiration is to work a few years at a well-known established firm in an international city (NYC, Toronto, London). I am not sure how realistic or if this goal will change as I progress in my education.
Right now, I think UofC and UBC are my back-up, UofT seems like a good middle ground, with networking and proximity to NYC, and GSAPP is my lottery choice. I attended the GSAPP online info session, and it seems the scholarships / financial support barely cover more than half. To be frank, I really don't know if I can afford more than a year at GSAPP...
If I do stay in Canada, I was hoping to work at a firm locally with an office in a big city that I could transfer to NYC or London after a year or two.
I think the concept of "opportunity cost" is ultimately subjective, but any past experience would be helpful and greatly appreciated.
Thanks for reading :)
Non Sequitur
Oct 11, 23 1:16 pm
take the cheapest school and accept UofT as a last resort. Tuition is dirt cheap in canada and there is no value if paying exorbitant USA tuition.
Chad Miller
Oct 11, 23 1:21 pm
Serious question Non - can a Canadian degree work in the US and vice versa?
Non Sequitur
Oct 11, 23 1:28 pm
yes. reciprocity is available in all provinces for NCARB degrees and I believe most states accept CACB degrees but your process is less organized if I am to believe the forum complaints. Quebec being the exception because it's Quebec.
Chad Miller
Oct 11, 23 1:32 pm
Quebec isn't actually part of Canada though . . . I mean technically it is but come on.
Almosthip7
Oct 12, 23 1:26 am
Chad - not part of Canada but takes all the transfer payment money from Alberta.
whistler
Oct 13, 23 4:48 pm
Non's got it right! Value in paying 5-10x the tuition for "name school" is painfully high and not worth it. Might get your toe in the door somewhere but it won't get you a high enough salary to pay off the tuition debt. If you have Daddy Warbucks money then go for it but given you've noted the tuition rates of schools the cost appears to matter to you .... which it should!
Bench
Nov 8, 23 9:22 am
@Chad - I finished my undergrad and master's in Canada after declining my acceptances to a few top-tier US schools, based entirely on the tuition aspect. The canadian M.Arch qualifies for reciprocity with no additional hoops to jump through (although quite a bit of paperwork). I'm now licensed in both countries.
Vice-versa is the same; I worked in Canada previously with expat Americans who were licensed in both countries.
monosierra
Oct 12, 23 8:50 am
A Canadian firm with global presence?
Your best bet after graduation may be Adamson, the titan of executive architects, or an AEC conglomerate like WSP or AtkinsRéalis. There aren't that many conventional architecture firms from Canada with significant global presence - like an SOM for instance.
Diamond Schmitt comes to mind but they don't have much company ... correct me if I'm wrong.
will galloway
Nov 7, 23 7:54 am
probably better to think the other way around. Which large corporate offices are based in Canada. Diamond Schmitt works in the USA but not international, really. They are the local architect for a lot of international firms, doing the work for BIG, etc on the ground, FWIW.
As for the original question, go to the Ivy school if there is a scholarship, otherwise it is not such a good deal. Canadian schools are generally good quality, even UofT, in spite of the hate it receives. U of T has a lot of profs who went to Ivies if you care about that sort of thing, and more importantly they have a better budget than a lot of schools. I wouldnt sniff at it if you got in.
Bench
Nov 8, 23 9:26 am
Tend to agree with Will. If you're planning / aspiring to work internationally, you'll need to aim for the main primary offices of these firms first, not the other way around. Your best bet would be working for the major well-known firms in Canada during your summers and then showing that experience as leverage in future applications. The good news is that there is a ton of work available in the states right now.
gwharton
Dec 13, 23 1:49 pm
Arcadis (CallisonRTKL) just bought IBI Group, formerly the largest Canadian A/E firm (by a long way). They also have offices in dozens of other countries. They are always hiring somewhere, so plenty of US/Canadian/International opportunities there.
Pzha
Oct 17, 23 10:51 pm
NO
Archi-Fartsy
Oct 18, 23 1:29 am
Go absolutely as cheap as possible or, even better, see if what you want to accomplish can be done with just your undergrad… in my experience (healthcare architect), no one gives a rip about where you went to school, or how much schooling you got. It’s about experience and capability. I’ve seen many examples of PhD architects and Ivy League architects not anywhere near a career trajectory that would give them a meaningful ROI with their educational accomplishments. If you love school, more power to you! But if the expectation is that schooling will get you a leg up on the competition, my observation over the years in my corner of the world (Southwest US) is that getting experience early, building your skills in practice, and finding the easiest / cheapest path to licensure is a better bet in this industry. good luck!
whistler
Oct 18, 23 12:54 pm
What he said!
Chad Miller
Oct 18, 23 1:17 pm
/\ This.
ericc1
Nov 4, 23 2:28 pm
Thank you for sharing
, that's very helpful insight.
Bench
Nov 8, 23 9:24 am
Literally everything here, 100%.
kenchiku
Dec 9, 23 8:42 am
Hey, check out Dalhousie. They have co-op terms(4mo in undergrad, 8mo in graduate) and if you have a good portfolio you could easily do all of them in a big city somewhere, domestic or abroad. The school has connections to some well known firms that routinely hire students that make the cut.
gual
Dec 13, 23 1:44 pm
Don’t go to GSAPP unless you get a substantial scholarship. If that sort of education matters to you, UofT’s program is modeled off Ivy schools and the profs have “brand name” backgrounds.
At the end of the day, good people come out of all of these schools.
Non Sequitur
Dec 13, 23 2:30 pm
UofT's arch school is the farthest from ivy as you can be.
I am in the process of applying to a few different MArch programs for Fall 2024 and wanted some opinions and thoughts from industry professionals, and/or those who went through the same dilemma. I understand it ultimately depends on my acceptance, but it will also help me place priority on which applications I allot more of my time and energy to.
I'm born and raised in Calgary, have lived abroad for a few years to gain some "life experience and perspective". I have lived in Vancouver for most of my undergraduate and am familiar with both Toronto and New York (from vacations and visits).
There are my top 4 choices I am planning to submit an application to (and their tuition cost)
-UofC SAPL (~$10k per year)
-UBC SALA (~$7.5k per year)
-UofT Daniels (~$11.4k per year)
-Columbia GSAPP (~$72.3k per year)
The list starts chronologically from most economical to most opportunity. I am from a middle-class background and will be taking loans regardless. I will be 30 in Fall 2024.
My current goal / aspiration is to work a few years at a well-known established firm in an international city (NYC, Toronto, London). I am not sure how realistic or if this goal will change as I progress in my education.
Right now, I think UofC and UBC are my back-up, UofT seems like a good middle ground, with networking and proximity to NYC, and GSAPP is my lottery choice. I attended the GSAPP online info session, and it seems the scholarships / financial support barely cover more than half. To be frank, I really don't know if I can afford more than a year at GSAPP...
If I do stay in Canada, I was hoping to work at a firm locally with an office in a big city that I could transfer to NYC or London after a year or two.
I think the concept of "opportunity cost" is ultimately subjective, but any past experience would be helpful and greatly appreciated.
Thanks for reading :)
take the cheapest school and accept UofT as a last resort. Tuition is dirt cheap in canada and there is no value if paying exorbitant USA tuition.
Serious question Non - can a Canadian degree work in the US and vice versa?
yes. reciprocity is available in all provinces for NCARB degrees and I believe most states accept CACB degrees but your process is less organized if I am to believe the forum complaints. Quebec being the exception because it's Quebec.
Quebec isn't actually part of Canada though . . . I mean technically it is but come on.
Chad - not part of Canada but takes all the transfer payment money from Alberta.
Non's got it right! Value in paying 5-10x the tuition for "name school" is painfully high and not worth it. Might get your toe in the door somewhere but it won't get you a high enough salary to pay off the tuition debt. If you have Daddy Warbucks money then go for it but given you've noted the tuition rates of schools the cost appears to matter to you .... which it should!
@Chad - I finished my undergrad and master's in Canada after declining my acceptances to a few top-tier US schools, based entirely on the tuition aspect. The canadian M.Arch qualifies for reciprocity with no additional hoops to jump through (although quite a bit of paperwork). I'm now licensed in both countries.
Vice-versa is the same; I worked in Canada previously with expat Americans who were licensed in both countries.
A Canadian firm with global presence?
Your best bet after graduation may be Adamson, the titan of executive architects, or an AEC conglomerate like WSP or AtkinsRéalis. There aren't that many conventional architecture firms from Canada with significant global presence - like an SOM for instance.
Diamond Schmitt comes to mind but they don't have much company ... correct me if I'm wrong.
probably better to think the other way around. Which large corporate offices are based in Canada. Diamond Schmitt works in the USA but not international, really. They are the local architect for a lot of international firms, doing the work for BIG, etc on the ground, FWIW. As for the original question, go to the Ivy school if there is a scholarship, otherwise it is not such a good deal. Canadian schools are generally good quality, even UofT, in spite of the hate it receives. U of T has a lot of profs who went to Ivies if you care about that sort of thing, and more importantly they have a better budget than a lot of schools. I wouldnt sniff at it if you got in.
Tend to agree with Will. If you're planning / aspiring to work internationally, you'll need to aim for the main primary offices of these firms first, not the other way around. Your best bet would be working for the major well-known firms in Canada during your summers and then showing that experience as leverage in future applications. The good news is that there is a ton of work available in the states right now.
Arcadis (CallisonRTKL) just bought IBI Group, formerly the largest Canadian A/E firm (by a long way). They also have offices in dozens of other countries. They are always hiring somewhere, so plenty of US/Canadian/International opportunities there.
NO
Go absolutely as cheap as possible or, even better, see if what you want to accomplish can be done with just your undergrad… in my experience (healthcare architect), no one gives a rip about where you went to school, or how much schooling you got. It’s about experience and capability. I’ve seen many examples of PhD architects and Ivy League architects not anywhere near a career trajectory that would give them a meaningful ROI with their educational accomplishments. If you love school, more power to you! But if the expectation is that schooling will get you a leg up on the competition, my observation over the years in my corner of the world (Southwest US) is that getting experience early, building your skills in practice, and finding the easiest / cheapest path to licensure is a better bet in this industry. good luck!
What he said!
/\ This.
Thank you for sharing , that's very helpful insight.
Literally everything here, 100%.
Hey, check out Dalhousie. They have co-op terms(4mo in undergrad, 8mo in graduate) and if you have a good portfolio you could easily do all of them in a big city somewhere, domestic or abroad. The school has connections to some well known firms that routinely hire students that make the cut.
Don’t go to GSAPP unless you get a substantial scholarship. If that sort of education matters to you, UofT’s program is modeled off Ivy schools and the profs have “brand name” backgrounds.
At the end of the day, good people come out of all of these schools.
UofT's arch school is the farthest from ivy as you can be.