with the changing my work style, I need a very good laptop for my work as an architect and I would be very grateful for your tips and recommendations.
I'm basically deciding between Macos and PC platforms. I have work experience with both environments. Personally, I'm probably tending more to the Macos environment, but I don't want to make a decision based on pure emotions..
I have an iMac 27 with an i9 processor from 2019 at home, and everything I need works fine on it.
My laptop requirements:
Good performance, good graphics card, RAM min. 16 GB (rather 32 GB), mobility (weight), high-quality processing/robustness, silent operation, long battery life, around 1 TB of storage is sufficient. Rendering ocassionally.
Apps: Archicad, Sketchup, Twinmotion, Adobe (Id, Ps, LrC, il), MS Office.
Besides the general comparison, do you have recommendations for individual models?
Many thanks for any of your recommendations and comments.
Best regards
Andrew
Non Sequitur
Jul 3, 23 1:08 pm
pc. Don’t waste money on shiny fruit icons.
Chad Miller
Jul 3, 23 1:16 pm
I'll second this. Also get a solid state hard drive, as much ram as you can (32 GB min), and a gaming graphics card. This won't be cheap, expect to spend around $3k (US). Good Luck!
Non Sequitur
Jul 3, 23 1:52 pm
and a 17" case with decent case fans.
Chad Miller
Jul 3, 23 3:00 pm
Overclock the processor and go to liquid cooled! Seriously though - I was amazed at the increased speed when our firm went to solid state hard drives. I'll never use anything else if I can help it.
Josh Mings
Jul 3, 23 2:01 pm
I have a Mac, but most at home in Revit, so I have Parallels installed. For now as a one person firm with smaller projects, it’s fine. When I get larger it will be full Windows environment (but I’ll keep a Mac for personal use as I have for over 20 years)
Wood Guy
Jul 3, 23 3:03 pm
I called this company and they custom-built a model to fit my needs: https://www.xicomputer.com/. I was referred to them by an architect friend who is also happy with the machines he has bought from them. I recommend using a PC platform; as much as I like most Apple products, the architects I know who insist on using them always seem to struggle with the platform.
proto
Jul 3, 23 5:03 pm
OP, given that your reqd apps are all native in macOS, i don't know why you'd change at this point
Chad Miller
Jul 3, 23 5:13 pm
Cost?
proto
Jul 4, 23 10:48 am
If cost were the only measure, Apple would have died many years ago. It is easy to pretend they offer little more than a decorative accessory for one’s lifestyle.
Non Sequitur
Jul 4, 23 11:50 am
I've used Apple since the early 90s. Had multiple computers and even bought in to their first intel CPU back in 2007ish. cost 3x a comparable PC laptop back then. I'm 100% custom PC tower these days and never bothered to replace my last MacbookPro. Comparing stock machines, mac will generally be better quality for parts, but there is a big premium added just because of the fruit. Overheating and planned obsolesce issues aside, I still maintain that apple is 90% lifestyle.
bowling_ball
Jul 4, 23 4:01 pm
I'm switching back to Apple for my next. No need to run Revit so I don't need it to be high-spec, but I do need it to work. PCs, like Android, are really getting on my nerves for not doing the most basic things smoothly. It's 2023, there's no excuse for many of the problems I encounter weekly (and I have one of those $3k laptops...)
Non Sequitur
Jul 4, 23 5:58 pm
BB, I’ve only seen weird things on windows home OS. Never had any issues with windows pro (or whatever it’s called now). Stil tho, I much prefer the flexibility with building my own.
Josh Mings
Jul 4, 23 8:39 pm
Yeah, I bought Windows 11 Pro for my virtual machine on Parallels. I agree with everyone else that SSDs and min 32 GB RAM are a must no matter which way you go.
Wood Guy
Jul 5, 23 11:58 am
Good call on the 32GB of RAM. My new desktop only has 16MB; though the hard drive is a 1TB solid-state drive, it gets bogged down. I'm going to look for additional RAM.
Josh Mings
Jul 5, 23 12:35 pm
16MB Ram? You running an Apple IIe? :) My current specs are Mac M1 Pro, 16GB Ram, and 1 TB SSD. Am looking to upgrade RAM to 32 or more, but haven't run into many issues at 16 - just the occasional Revit taking an additional second or two to pan.
Chad Miller
Jul 5, 23 12:50 pm
Our new desktops have 64GB of RAM.
Wood Guy
Jul 5, 23 1:01 pm
MB, GB, whatever it takes ;-) (Technology is not my jam.)
I don't even use Revit, just Autocad LT, Sketchup and Photoshop, but it gets bogged down with those. As I type, my memory (the computer's memory) is at 94% use and I'm not even doing anything.
Non Sequitur
Jul 6, 23 1:23 pm
16MB, what is this, a laptop for ants?
Wood Guy
Jul 6, 23 2:45 pm
LOL. It was an emergency and I mistakenly trusted the Geek Squad rep to help me decide on good specs. Lesson learned, maybe.
scottanderson
Jul 5, 23 11:02 am
My experience is that a good gaming system is best as there is better cooling and a more robust power supply and overall build. Vital for an Architect using it continuously. And use a chill mat.
I have found ASUS ROG systems to be very reliable. I went for the speed, and stayed for the reliability. My homemade desktop has been in continuous operation for 10 years and using an i7 Extreme still performs well for Revit with files in the 100-300 Meg range.
Be sure to get one with a graphics card that can run VR.
And quiet Solid State hard drives.
Gregory Walker
Jul 6, 23 12:46 pm
you know.... i'm going to stay out of the software/cost/whatever parts of this equation and just say this: i've had 3 dell's over my life and every single one of them started physically breaking within 2 years. screens, etc. not from being dropped, just everyday lugging out/back in a padded case in a backpack.
i'm still on my 2015 MBP, that thing flipped out of my backpack while leaning over (with no padding) and hit the concrete parking lot on a corner. dents? yes. scratches? some. cracked screen? nope. misalignments? nope. i had to file down on 3MM wide section of the aluminium that had pushed ever so slightly into the screen side but that took 2 minutes.
quality of build wise... there's no discussion imho.
Josh Mings
Jul 6, 23 3:52 pm
True - good 4-5 years out of each Mac I've purchased, if not more. The iMac that I had for 4 years was the only one that was a little iffy at times but luckily when it went I had everything backed up (and may only need a new hard drive but I wanted a MBP)
pghaec
Jul 18, 23 5:40 pm
For PC laptops, look up JarrodTech on youtube. There is also a good discord server called Suggestalaptop . notebookcheck.net is good for checking the basics, but don't pay attention to their ratings--they never make any sense.
Specs aren't everything and are particularly misleading when it comes to laptops. Two laptops with seemingly identical specs can have very different real world performance depending on their power distribution and thermal design.
There have been cases where a $3800 high end Dell laptop was outperformed by Dell's own $800 budget option, because the high end one had a critical flaw in its thermal design, causing it to throttle to less than 15% of its maximum performance after 5 minutes of gaming load.
Power distribution and thermal design are interrelated, but long story short, the components need to actually be able to deliver the maximum rated wattage to the CPU and GPU to see the specified performance, while also maintaining cool enough temperatures to prevent throttling designed to protect the hardware.
For architectural applications VRAM is probably more important than for gaming, so keep that in mind when choosing a GPU.
Look up the maximum TDP for the CPU and GPU you want, and make sure the laptop can actually deliver it. Otherwise you're paying for theoretical performance only.
There are no 'good brands'--all brands have had severe defects in specific models. Build quality can be excellent in a budget model and awful in a high end one. Quality of support varies from brand to brand. Asus is notoriously terrible.
I would research specific models and then look up how helpful warranty support is for the manufacturers of the models that look promising.
Don't neglect things like screen quality, PWM dimming, temporal dithering, and variable refresh rate screens. The best laptop in the world is not so great if it gives you splitting headaches while looking at it.
will galloway
Jul 22, 23 11:21 pm
FWIW, I am using a surface studio laptop, maxing out the options. 32MB Ram, 2TB SSD. Chips are good-ish but I think slowly falling behind the market.
Many of my students use gamer laptops, and they seem happy. Garish and heavy as a bag of bricks, but powerful for most tasks. And a LED keyboard that changes from purple to green during a crit is a perk of some kind I imagine.
by comparison my windows computer is great for sketching with a pen on miro or with proper markup software (the pen is better than the apple pen IMO). Revit, rhino and acad no problem at all. Renders are ok-ish, but dont compare to dektop. For proper output we use render farm or someone in the office works on desktop. Apart from rendering images the only time I wish for more power is with video editing, but that is not yet a normal architect-y task...
Hello,
with the changing my work style, I need a very good laptop for my work as an architect and I would be very grateful for your tips and recommendations.
I'm basically deciding between Macos and PC platforms. I have work experience with both environments. Personally, I'm probably tending more to the Macos environment, but I don't want to make a decision based on pure emotions.. I have an iMac 27 with an i9 processor from 2019 at home, and everything I need works fine on it.
My laptop requirements: Good performance, good graphics card, RAM min. 16 GB (rather 32 GB), mobility (weight), high-quality processing/robustness, silent operation, long battery life, around 1 TB of storage is sufficient. Rendering ocassionally.
Apps: Archicad, Sketchup, Twinmotion, Adobe (Id, Ps, LrC, il), MS Office. Besides the general comparison, do you have recommendations for individual models? Many thanks for any of your recommendations and comments.
Best regards
Andrew
pc. Don’t waste money on shiny fruit icons.
I'll second this. Also get a solid state hard drive, as much ram as you can (32 GB min), and a gaming graphics card. This won't be cheap, expect to spend around $3k (US). Good Luck!
and a 17" case with decent case fans.
Overclock the processor and go to liquid cooled! Seriously though - I was amazed at the increased speed when our firm went to solid state hard drives. I'll never use anything else if I can help it.
I have a Mac, but most at home in Revit, so I have Parallels installed. For now as a one person firm with smaller projects, it’s fine. When I get larger it will be full Windows environment (but I’ll keep a Mac for personal use as I have for over 20 years)
I called this company and they custom-built a model to fit my needs: https://www.xicomputer.com/. I was referred to them by an architect friend who is also happy with the machines he has bought from them. I recommend using a PC platform; as much as I like most Apple products, the architects I know who insist on using them always seem to struggle with the platform.
OP, given that your reqd apps are all native in macOS, i don't know why you'd change at this point
Cost?
If cost were the only measure, Apple would have died many years ago. It is easy to pretend they offer little more than a decorative accessory for one’s lifestyle.
I've used Apple since the early 90s. Had multiple computers and even bought in to their first intel CPU back in 2007ish. cost 3x a comparable PC laptop back then. I'm 100% custom PC tower these days and never bothered to replace my last MacbookPro. Comparing stock machines, mac will generally be better quality for parts, but there is a big premium added just because of the fruit. Overheating and planned obsolesce issues aside, I still maintain that apple is 90% lifestyle.
I'm switching back to Apple for my next. No need to run Revit so I don't need it to be high-spec, but I do need it to work. PCs, like Android, are really getting on my nerves for not doing the most basic things smoothly. It's 2023, there's no excuse for many of the problems I encounter weekly (and I have one of those $3k laptops...)
BB, I’ve only seen weird things on windows home OS. Never had any issues with windows pro (or whatever it’s called now). Stil tho, I much prefer the flexibility with building my own.
Yeah, I bought Windows 11 Pro for my virtual machine on Parallels. I agree with everyone else that SSDs and min 32 GB RAM are a must no matter which way you go.
Good call on the 32GB of RAM. My new desktop only has 16MB; though the hard drive is a 1TB solid-state drive, it gets bogged down. I'm going to look for additional RAM.
16MB Ram? You running an Apple IIe? :) My current specs are Mac M1 Pro, 16GB Ram, and 1 TB SSD. Am looking to upgrade RAM to 32 or more, but haven't run into many issues at 16 - just the occasional Revit taking an additional second or two to pan.
Our new desktops have 64GB of RAM.
MB, GB, whatever it takes ;-) (Technology is not my jam.)
I don't even use Revit, just Autocad LT, Sketchup and Photoshop, but it gets bogged down with those. As I type, my memory (the computer's memory) is at 94% use and I'm not even doing anything.
16MB, what is this, a laptop for ants?
LOL. It was an emergency and I mistakenly trusted the Geek Squad rep to help me decide on good specs. Lesson learned, maybe.
My experience is that a good gaming system is best as there is better cooling and a more robust power supply and overall build. Vital for an Architect using it continuously. And use a chill mat.
I have found ASUS ROG systems to be very reliable. I went for the speed, and stayed for the reliability. My homemade desktop has been in continuous operation for 10 years and using an i7 Extreme still performs well for Revit with files in the 100-300 Meg range.
Be sure to get one with a graphics card that can run VR.
And quiet Solid State hard drives.
you know.... i'm going to stay out of the software/cost/whatever parts of this equation and just say this: i've had 3 dell's over my life and every single one of them started physically breaking within 2 years. screens, etc. not from being dropped, just everyday lugging out/back in a padded case in a backpack.
i'm still on my 2015 MBP, that thing flipped out of my backpack while leaning over (with no padding) and hit the concrete parking lot on a corner. dents? yes. scratches? some. cracked screen? nope. misalignments? nope. i had to file down on 3MM wide section of the aluminium that had pushed ever so slightly into the screen side but that took 2 minutes.
quality of build wise... there's no discussion imho.
True - good 4-5 years out of each Mac I've purchased, if not more. The iMac that I had for 4 years was the only one that was a little iffy at times but luckily when it went I had everything backed up (and may only need a new hard drive but I wanted a MBP)
For PC laptops, look up JarrodTech on youtube. There is also a good discord server called Suggestalaptop . notebookcheck.net is good for checking the basics, but don't pay attention to their ratings--they never make any sense.
Specs aren't everything and are particularly misleading when it comes to laptops. Two laptops with seemingly identical specs can have very different real world performance depending on their power distribution and thermal design.
There have been cases where a $3800 high end Dell laptop was outperformed by Dell's own $800 budget option, because the high end one had a critical flaw in its thermal design, causing it to throttle to less than 15% of its maximum performance after 5 minutes of gaming load.
Power distribution and thermal design are interrelated, but long story short, the components need to actually be able to deliver the maximum rated wattage to the CPU and GPU to see the specified performance, while also maintaining cool enough temperatures to prevent throttling designed to protect the hardware.
For architectural applications VRAM is probably more important than for gaming, so keep that in mind when choosing a GPU.
Look up the maximum TDP for the CPU and GPU you want, and make sure the laptop can actually deliver it. Otherwise you're paying for theoretical performance only.
There are no 'good brands'--all brands have had severe defects in specific models. Build quality can be excellent in a budget model and awful in a high end one. Quality of support varies from brand to brand. Asus is notoriously terrible.
I would research specific models and then look up how helpful warranty support is for the manufacturers of the models that look promising.
Don't neglect things like screen quality, PWM dimming, temporal dithering, and variable refresh rate screens. The best laptop in the world is not so great if it gives you splitting headaches while looking at it.
FWIW, I am using a surface studio laptop, maxing out the options. 32MB Ram, 2TB SSD. Chips are good-ish but I think slowly falling behind the market.
Many of my students use gamer laptops, and they seem happy. Garish and heavy as a bag of bricks, but powerful for most tasks. And a LED keyboard that changes from purple to green during a crit is a perk of some kind I imagine.
by comparison my windows computer is great for sketching with a pen on miro or with proper markup software (the pen is better than the apple pen IMO). Revit, rhino and acad no problem at all. Renders are ok-ish, but dont compare to dektop. For proper output we use render farm or someone in the office works on desktop. Apart from rendering images the only time I wish for more power is with video editing, but that is not yet a normal architect-y task...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX8_NRGuQX0
Some notes on thermal throttling