I need some advice please. We are the Architect for a high-end residetail project. An Interior Design (ID) firm is leading the majority of the design. We are responsible for basically the shell, any structural issues/components (thru our structural engineer) and making sure the ID will work and be realized. We will be stamping the drawings as the Architect of Record, ID drawings aswell.
We are doing our end in Revit. ID wants to do their end in CAD. I am not sure yet what the work flow should be. I can link and or import their work into our model, which is a lot of work but better for coordination. Or I can have them just provide their sheets and include in our set.
The ID firm has more influence with the client than we do so I am not sure that I can get them to do their work in Revit.
Any advice or suggestions for workflow would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you!!
leonizer
Jun 29, 23 1:19 pm
This is very common, continue with revit and link their cad and redraw their shit, it is what it is, unless you can convince them to use revit.
JLC-1
Jun 29, 23 2:02 pm
revit has never been necessary for residential work, much less for high-end stuff, like driving a semi truck to deliver a box of nose tissues. Autodesk likes your post though, it makes us fight.
msparchitect
Jun 29, 23 3:28 pm
I use Revit for residential work. I'd never go back to AutoCAD
. It isn't worth all the extra time in coordination. Adding Enscape and Twinmotion makes Revit even better with even small residential work. I hate Revit for many reasons, but I'm done with AutoCAD.
JLC-1
Jun 29, 23 4:11 pm
good for you
JLC-1
Jun 29, 23 4:21 pm
btw I build houses, not movies or pretty pictures
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 29, 23 4:47 pm
You build houses? Like literally?
JLC-1
Jun 29, 23 5:21 pm
yes, with the help of contractors, is it weird?
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 29, 23 7:25 pm
No, it's not weird, I'm just asking if you physically construct them yourself, that was your contention.
Chad Miller
Jun 30, 23 10:45 am
I've used AutoCAD and Revit on a multitude of project types, including single family residential. I find Revit to be a much better program than AutoCAD for a variety of reasons.
ill_will
Jun 30, 23 10:54 pm
My previous work was mainly converting Cad to Revit, thankfully I no longer work there. Also it was high rise residential, so a bit different.
ill_will
Jun 30, 23 10:54 pm
High rise vs. High end LOL
reallynotmyname
Jun 29, 23 2:30 pm
Have them give your their ID sheets to put into the set. Otherwise you risk scope creep where you start detailing interior things and/or doing uncompensated work importing their stuff into Revit.
sideMan
Jun 29, 23 3:21 pm
This is what I would like to do. Might have to do leonizer suggust though. Or some form of it.
JLC-1
Jun 29, 23 4:14 pm
I think what he is suggesting is getting their sheet s in pdf and just adding it to your deliverables, why do you need the ID stuff in your drawings? Can't you just reference them?
sideMan
Jun 29, 23 4:26 pm
I may be able to just reference them. I have always done project with our ID team that is part of our firm. ID work has always been an integral part of our work. I have not done any projects with with the team setup this way and just trying to get things worked.
proto
Jun 29, 23 6:58 pm
add blank sheets that mimic their sheet list for your index & coordinate interior elevation tags on the plans
it doesn't have to be complicated
then publish their pdfs with yours
cover your coordination in your contract scope cuz you're going to spend time drafting a little bit of their stuff to stay coordinated
sideMan
Jun 30, 23 8:48 am
Yes. This is how handle our Structurals.
SneakyPete
Jun 30, 23 10:31 am
No need for blank sheets. Use "add data row" in the sheet index schedule.
.
sideMan
Jun 30, 23 11:15 am
Nice!
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 29, 23 7:28 pm
This is really easy, honestly. You could do what everyone is suggesting, I would too, but I would also link their file to my plans, if necessary, and reload their file as necessary to capture changes. But yes, if they can't figure out how to use the software, print their drawings independently.
sideMan
Jun 30, 23 8:54 am
Like the linking of the CAD files. Hopefully they would publish with good line weights to our firms standards.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 30, 23 9:35 am
Two things, first, I would use them for coordinating, second I believe you can control to some degree, if you intended to use them to print documents, the line settings under manage links and templates.
Chad Miller
Jun 30, 23 11:29 am
Correct. You can adjust the line weights and colors of the various linked AutoCAD layers via graphic overrides. Once that is done you can create a view template and apply it to the views with linked AutoCAD files in it. Unfortunately I think only Revit 2023 lets you save the visibility graphic overrides for linked files. I could be incorrect about the last part though.
SneakyPete
Jun 30, 23 12:23 pm
I never link dwgs into my model unless there's a compelling reason. Every different line style in cad adds trash to the file. Now instead of my firm's line styles, hatch patterns, and materials I have to sort through all of the trash from the dwgs.
sideMan
Jun 30, 23 12:28 pm
How do you handle the situation in question?
Chad Miller
Jun 30, 23 12:40 pm
Sneaky - the varying graphics is the down side about linking anything into your drawings. Then again, this happens when you use any consultant - their drawings will always have different graphic styles.
On a side note: linking dwgs won't add components to the file, it can make the .rvt run slower - importing .dwgs will add junk to your Revit file though. I personally only link civil and landscape .dwgs.
One way to deal with this is to separate out the core and shell from the interiors. Have them be two separate drawing packages. That way the ID can do all the interior drawings and the architect doesn't have to deal with linking / importing, or the associated graphic issues.
The other way to have dealt with this would of been to have the file type and graphic standards detailed out in the contract between the ID and the architect. Unfortunately it looks like this option isn't available at this time.
SneakyPete
Jun 30, 23 1:08 pm
linking still created line styles, materials, and other elements. Otherwise revit cannot show them correctly. Do a test. Start a new file that's clean, then link in a dwg. go into materials and look for the hex code materials. Then go into the line styles. It's the mainr eason I don't link dwgs, and I don't use shit families from revitcity.
SneakyPete
Jun 30, 23 1:25 pm
sideMan, if they expect interiors in the set but not called out in the arch drawings then I'd update my index and call it a day, while making sure to coordinate my work with theirs. If they expect to see their work in my interior elevations, sections, etc, then I'd have a discussion about how much that will cost and who's gonna foot the bill.
SneakyPete
Jun 30, 23 1:27 pm
Expecting a different firm to use your line weight standards needs to be addressed in the contract or the BIM document as referenced by the contract. Otherwise you're asking them to do work that will not help them achieve their contractual requirements but instead
yours.
sideMan
Jun 30, 23 1:48 pm
Agreed.
Chad Miller
Jul 3, 23 10:30 am
sneaky - I know it's nit picky but linking will not create new line styles, materials, or other elements. It will import AutoCAD layers into Revit and create 'placeholder' elements that can have their graphic attributes edited. These aren't accrual elements imported into the Revit file - you can't now draw a line, create a filled region, or place an element that was only linked into a Revit file.
Now if you import an AutoCAD file then all the layers are brought into the Revit file and turned into line types. That's why you shouldn't be importing AutoCAD files.
SneakyPete
Jul 3, 23 5:36 pm
placeholders still clutter up the list
Chad Miller
Jul 3, 23 5:46 pm
They can. Fortunately they are all under the imported categories visibility graphic and are easy to turn off / edit with view templates.
When you link an AutoCAD file they still aren't bringing in line types, filled regions, or other elements though.
sideMan
Jun 30, 23 12:21 pm
Thanks all for the help!!
luvu
Jul 3, 23 10:56 pm
My 2c : I've done a lot of collaborations with other architects in a complex project. As a principal architect , not once that we linked/showed/manipulated our collaborators' work in our drawings. Instead , we allocated drawings series to our collaborator(s) and would transfer ( redraw ) crucial information that need to be coordinated in the base build with other disciplines.
Also if this ID firm is engaged directly by the client ? that's another complexity of this kind of work.
Josh Mings
Jul 4, 23 12:44 am
ID firm under owner is not fun in my experience. Lots of layouts that weren’t even checked for accessibility compliance. Oh no, we only need 2 feet between tables. Yeah, with rail thin models maybe
sideMan
Jul 5, 23 8:06 am
Yes ID firm is engaged directly and is adding complexity. But, they are very cooperative.
I need some advice please. We are the Architect for a high-end residetail project. An Interior Design (ID) firm is leading the majority of the design. We are responsible for basically the shell, any structural issues/components (thru our structural engineer) and making sure the ID will work and be realized. We will be stamping the drawings as the Architect of Record, ID drawings aswell.
We are doing our end in Revit. ID wants to do their end in CAD. I am not sure yet what the work flow should be. I can link and or import their work into our model, which is a lot of work but better for coordination. Or I can have them just provide their sheets and include in our set.
The ID firm has more influence with the client than we do so I am not sure that I can get them to do their work in Revit.
Any advice or suggestions for workflow would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you!!
This is very common, continue with revit and link their cad and redraw their shit, it is what it is, unless you can convince them to use revit.
revit has never been necessary for residential work, much less for high-end stuff, like driving a semi truck to deliver a box of nose tissues. Autodesk likes your post though, it makes us fight.
I use Revit for residential work. I'd never go back to AutoCAD . It isn't worth all the extra time in coordination. Adding Enscape and Twinmotion makes Revit even better with even small residential work. I hate Revit for many reasons, but I'm done with AutoCAD.
good for you
btw I build houses, not movies or pretty pictures
You build houses? Like literally?
yes, with the help of contractors, is it weird?
No, it's not weird, I'm just asking if you physically construct them yourself, that was your contention.
I've used AutoCAD and Revit on a multitude of project types, including single family residential. I find Revit to be a much better program than AutoCAD for a variety of reasons.
My previous work was mainly converting Cad to Revit, thankfully I no longer work there. Also it was high rise residential, so a bit different.
High rise vs. High end LOL
Have them give your their ID sheets to put into the set. Otherwise you risk scope creep where you start detailing interior things and/or doing uncompensated work importing their stuff into Revit.
This is what I would like to do. Might have to do leonizer suggust though. Or some form of it.
I think what he is suggesting is getting their sheet s in pdf and just adding it to your deliverables, why do you need the ID stuff in your drawings? Can't you just reference them?
I may be able to just reference them. I have always done project with our ID team that is part of our firm. ID work has always been an integral part of our work. I have not done any projects with with the team setup this way and just trying to get things worked.
add blank sheets that mimic their sheet list for your index & coordinate interior elevation tags on the plans
it doesn't have to be complicated
then publish their pdfs with yours
cover your coordination in your contract scope cuz you're going to spend time drafting a little bit of their stuff to stay coordinated
Yes. This is how handle our Structurals.
No need for blank sheets. Use "add data row" in the sheet index schedule.
.
Nice!
This is really easy, honestly. You could do what everyone is suggesting, I would too, but I would also link their file to my plans, if necessary, and reload their file as necessary to capture changes. But yes, if they can't figure out how to use the software, print their drawings independently.
Like the linking of the CAD files. Hopefully they would publish with good line weights to our firms standards.
Two things, first, I would use them for coordinating, second I believe you can control to some degree, if you intended to use them to print documents, the line settings under manage links and templates.
Correct. You can adjust the line weights and colors of the various linked AutoCAD layers via graphic overrides. Once that is done you can create a view template and apply it to the views with linked AutoCAD files in it. Unfortunately I think only Revit 2023 lets you save the visibility graphic overrides for linked files. I could be incorrect about the last part though.
I never link dwgs into my model unless there's a compelling reason. Every different line style in cad adds trash to the file. Now instead of my firm's line styles, hatch patterns, and materials I have to sort through all of the trash from the dwgs.
How do you handle the situation in question?
Sneaky - the varying graphics is the down side about linking anything into your drawings. Then again, this happens when you use any consultant - their drawings will always have different graphic styles.
On a side note: linking dwgs won't add components to the file, it can make the .rvt run slower - importing .dwgs will add junk to your Revit file though. I personally only link civil and landscape .dwgs.
One way to deal with this is to separate out the core and shell from the interiors. Have them be two separate drawing packages. That way the ID can do all the interior drawings and the architect doesn't have to deal with linking / importing, or the associated graphic issues.
The other way to have dealt with this would of been to have the file type and graphic standards detailed out in the contract between the ID and the architect. Unfortunately it looks like this option isn't available at this time.
linking still created line styles, materials, and other elements. Otherwise revit cannot show them correctly. Do a test. Start a new file that's clean, then link in a dwg. go into materials and look for the hex code materials. Then go into the line styles. It's the mainr eason I don't link dwgs, and I don't use shit families from revitcity.
sideMan, if they expect interiors in the set but not called out in the arch drawings then I'd update my index and call it a day, while making sure to coordinate my work with theirs. If they expect to see their work in my interior elevations, sections, etc, then I'd have a discussion about how much that will cost and who's gonna foot the bill.
Expecting a different firm to use your line weight standards needs to be addressed in the contract or the BIM document as referenced by the contract. Otherwise you're asking them to do work that will not help them achieve their contractual requirements but instead yours.
Agreed.
sneaky - I know it's nit picky but linking will not create new line styles, materials, or other elements. It will import AutoCAD layers into Revit and create 'placeholder' elements that can have their graphic attributes edited. These aren't accrual elements imported into the Revit file - you can't now draw a line, create a filled region, or place an element that was only linked into a Revit file.
Now if you import an AutoCAD file then all the layers are brought into the Revit file and turned into line types. That's why you shouldn't be importing AutoCAD files.
placeholders still clutter up the list
They can. Fortunately they are all under the imported categories visibility graphic and are easy to turn off / edit with view templates.
When you link an AutoCAD file they still aren't bringing in line types, filled regions, or other elements though.
Thanks all for the help!!
My 2c : I've done a lot of collaborations with other architects in a complex project. As a principal architect , not once that we linked/showed/manipulated our collaborators' work in our drawings. Instead , we allocated drawings series to our collaborator(s) and would transfer ( redraw ) crucial information that need to be coordinated in the base build with other disciplines.
Also if this ID firm is engaged directly by the client ? that's another complexity of this kind of work.
ID firm under owner is not fun in my experience. Lots of layouts that weren’t even checked for accessibility compliance. Oh no, we only need 2 feet between tables. Yeah, with rail thin models maybe
Yes ID firm is engaged directly and is adding complexity. But, they are very cooperative.