I'm an entry-level architectural designer who graduated from school last year and landed my first job at one of the largest firms in the US. While I'm grateful for the opportunity and the decent salary (low 70s), I'm facing some challenges that are leaving me unsatisfied and unfulfilled.
One of the main issues I'm encountering is that my manager doesn't seem to prioritize my growth or development. As a result, I often feel like I'm not learning enough or being adequately challenged in my work. It's tough to maintain motivation when there's limited guidance and support.
Should I get a new job in search of a higher salary and a more engaging work environment? Money is currently the primary factor keeping me tied to this job, given the low cost of living in my city.
I'm aware that staying in a job for a short period of time can have its drawbacks, but I'm at a stage in my career where I want to make sure I'm on the right path and continually improving my skills. Have any of you been in a similar situation? If so, what did you do to overcome these challenges?
Pzha
May 24, 23 12:08 am
Which school you graduated from?
Chad Miller
May 24, 23 9:32 am
That has absolutely no bearing on this.
monosierra
May 24, 23 9:51 am
Agree that it shouldn't ... but there are some places where either alumni form cliques or teachers favor former students.
Chad Miller
May 24, 23 10:09 am
Maybe for getting the initial position but the OP has been at the firm for a year. Where they went to school is immaterial to the work that they are able to produce and thus the opportunities they would get. If a firm is only giving opportunities to alumni of certain schools regardless of a person's work then they are not a place you should be working with.
Chad Miller
May 24, 23 9:36 am
So you've been at your current firm for a year?
If you current firm isn't willing to provide you with the opportunities for growth and development that you want then it's time to look for another firm. Early in your career it's normal to move around every few years. I wouldn't worry about only being this firm for a year. Most potential employers will understand this and realize you're looking for 'Y' and you where getting 'X'.
natematt
May 24, 23 12:40 pm
This. It's pretty typical in the current market for people to move frequently, especially at an entry level. Based on the info you've given it may be hard to make more much more money necessarily, the market seems to be slowing a little and you will probably still get treated like a fresh grad give or take. I'd probably talk to some other people in the office at your level, sounds like you have a lot of coworkers, to see if they are having similar issues, this seems like a pretty common struggle people have for their first few years.
reallynotmyname
May 25, 23 8:49 am
The op does need to look around and see if a) is the prof. growth issue is prevalent in the firm or is it limited to their particular manager and b) is future advancement at this firm worth sticking around for? Do the mid and upper level people in the firm do things that the OP would like to do someday?
Jay1122
May 24, 23 5:25 pm
Dude makes 70K+ as entry level in a low cost city is still complaining. People now a day. Go search for other jobs, then you will find out that they will pay you even lower. 60K in NYC. 50K In other regions. Oh go look for those starchitect offices.
Chad Miller
May 24, 23 5:34 pm
Your dejected, paltry attitude is tiring and depressing. Go do something productive that cheers you up.
bowling_ball
May 24, 23 7:31 pm
To paraphrase The Dude, "He's not wrong, he's just an asshole."
atelier nobody
May 24, 23 7:48 pm
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Chad Miller
May 25, 23 9:35 am
Watch it man there's a beverage here.
To be fair we don't know where the OP lives or what he considers a 'low cost of living'. I think Jay is just jealous.
Jay1122
May 25, 23 9:45 am
Duh of course I am jealous,
I would love to start my architect salary at low 70K in low cost of living city. OP works in a huge corporation so I can see why. There are some small firms in NYC paying 40-50K to fresh grads even in todays economy.
Chad Miller
May 25, 23 9:49 am
I'm sorry, I wasn't listening.
You don't know what city the OP lives in or what he/she considers a 'low cost of living'. There are cities in the US that are just as or more expensive to live in than NYC.
SignPlease
May 25, 23 10:23 am
Well I must admit I may have exaggerated a bit. Having spent some time living in NYC and the bay area, the cost of everything and everywhere else seems rather affordable to me. Without delving into the details, I live in a major city in Midwest.
Chad Miller
May 25, 23 10:29 am
Exaggerated on what part? Your pay or the affordability of the city you live in? I'm thinking you live in Chicago, Detroit, or Minneapolis / St.Paul.
SignPlease
May 25, 23 10:35 am
The affordability of the city I live in. Yup, it's one of those
Jay1122
May 25, 23 10:36 am
OP, just try to apply to some other jobs. Smaller firm if you want full project involvement. Design positions if you don't like those boring coordination and AOR stuff. I just don't think you can maintain that salary. Large corporation pays the best. Anyway, after you get some offers in, you will know. I would love to join some chilling large corporation making 6 digit salary. Too bad my commute to NYC is just too far. Will take almost 2 hours to get there. And can't afford the house there. Need at least a mil for a decent apartment.
Chad Miller
May 25, 23 11:29 am
Large corporations do not always pay the best. Also you need to look at the cost of living for the area you're in.
Take me for example. I live in community of under 400,000 people. I make just over six figures. If I were to move to Denver and work for one of the huge firms I'd be making about $15k more however the cost of living is nearly 3.5x what it is here.
Jay1122
May 25, 23 12:24 pm
Really Chad. Your firm pays you 100K in salary? Must really value you. I am pretty sure my firm views anyone not in their core group as disposable tools. People come and go all the time. Well large corporation generally pays better, of course unless you find a company that values you and gives you above average rate. But it usually takes time to grow in that same company. Or excel at office politics and raise to the rank quick.
Chad Miller
May 25, 23 1:20 pm
Really. I have around 20 years of experience and own non voting stock in the firm. My firm values all of it's team members and we're only an 11 person firm.
joseffischer
May 24, 23 7:03 pm
I'm wondering what growth someone with 1 year of experience should expect and think we could do better for OP by describing what opportunities are given for that level of experience.
For my part as a PM, I feel like our company gives people at all levels of experience ample opportunity to grow, at least compared to my time elsewhere and what I got. Currently PMing a couple projects in the office, everyone on my teams are invited to the client and engineering meetings, provided CA experiences (design/build firm), provided a mentor/buddy, and given opportunities to contribute to pursuits, design presentations, DD and CD sets, and submittals, FRs, and RFIs. I really can't think of anything we don't let them try.
However, a few of my younger colleagues (1-3 years experience) have definitely expressed dissatisfaction regarding the speed of their progress or the agency of their designs. Without getting into it, the gap between where they want to be and where we believe them to be seems wide.
Using bathroom details as the cliche example, no one wants to spend any time on them and yet none of them can quote me clearance requirements. They don't outright disagree when we show RFIs because a dimension was missed or change orders due to uncoordinated items, or refer to potential lawsuits, etc. They just don't want that to be their job. I feel like some people at my office could be the OP.
joseffischer
May 24, 23 7:09 pm
OPs history was interesting, a year ago they asked if they should get an MArch or work. Many people said work! Per this, they went to work, and got 70k+ starting to boot. Not bad OP, not bad.
atelier nobody
May 24, 23 7:27 pm
I've often thought larger firms (like most of the ones I've worked at) really should have some sort of formal rotation system for junior staff, having them spend a meaningful amount of time (maybe 3mos to a year) in each "department" (which could also nicely dovetail with getting them their AXP hours). The reality is I almost always see people getting pigeonholed WAY to early in their careers.
SignPlease
May 24, 23 10:24 pm
Thanks joseffischer, this is exactly what I'm looking for! As I was reading your comment, I was checking off most of the boxes of the opportunities you mentioned. This really make me realize that it's actually a big part of me being not happy with what we do as an architect, in lieu of my firm/manager. I think this is one thing that they don't prepare us in school - is that 90% of your work time is spent on coordination and reviewing RFIs and submittals, while all we did in school was design and draw. That being said, moving to another firm (non-design based/big corp) won't really help, so I guess I just have to suck it up or change my career.
atelier nobody
May 24, 23 7:21 pm
One of the sad facts of this profession is that almost none of us get the level of mentorship we'd like, so if professional development is your main issue with the firm you're at you might not find it any better anywhere else. (FWIW, I'm now one of the old graybeards who is supposed to do the mentoring and I really wish I could be the mentor I wish I'd had, but the realities of project scheduling and budgeting mean I almost never have the time I wish I did to spend with the junior staff.)
One generalization that isn't universally true but is valid most of the time is that you'll find more opportunity for learning in smaller firms. The trade-off for this is that smaller firms often pay a bit less than large firms in the same market, and are also more susceptible to the economic ups and downs.
One thing I would recommend in considering other jobs is to find out how much support they give, both in money and time off, for pursuing continuing education/professional development - since the firms that will really help you much in-house are "unicorns", the next best thing is a firm that will support you in pursuing your development wherever you can get it.
SignPlease
May 24, 23 10:39 pm
I totally agree on your statement about opportunity for learning in smaller firms vs bigger firms. The money was (and still is) a major factor in my job offer decision, sadly you can't kill two birds with one stone.
x-jla
May 25, 23 12:13 am
You should not be anywhere that you don’t want to be unless you have to be there for someone or something. In other words, if you have responsibilities like a kid to feed, a new mortgage, a sick person that you are caring for, then money and stability is priority, so you may need to put that first. Short of a situation like that, if you don’t have any dependents you should go wherever you need to go to further your career. Why? Because before you know it you will likely have financial responsibilities and dependents and you won’t have the mobility. Use the mobility when you have it to get as many ducks in a row as you can.
Orca
May 25, 23 9:44 am
It’s extremely cliche but do what makes you happy. I spent a lot of the first part of my career and post college life doing what I thought I should do rather than what I wanted to do. Looking back, all the decisions I made that lined up with society’s expectations just led me further down a bland consumerist lifestyle and all the decisions I made that I thought were interesting and people warned against were the decisions that had the greatest impact on making my life interesting and enriched.
bowling_ball
May 26, 23 3:51 pm
I think I can offer some advice that you won't often hear from an owner's perspective: Be the driver of your own career. Stop waiting for others to mentor you, and instead request a mentorship. Trust me, your boss won't be magically aware of what you want, and you need to let them know. Their reaction should tell you how invested they are in you, and whether or not you want to stay. Accountability goes both ways.
Having said all of the above, you're only a year in. I've forgotten more in the last week than you've ever known. Maybe slow your roll, take a breath, and figure out what you actually want, instead of being reactive. Ambition is wonderful, but you don't know enough to know how large the delta is between where you are, and where you want to be.
New patient but purposeful. It's always worked for me.
I'm an entry-level architectural designer who graduated from school last year and landed my first job at one of the largest firms in the US. While I'm grateful for the opportunity and the decent salary (low 70s), I'm facing some challenges that are leaving me unsatisfied and unfulfilled.
One of the main issues I'm encountering is that my manager doesn't seem to prioritize my growth or development. As a result, I often feel like I'm not learning enough or being adequately challenged in my work. It's tough to maintain motivation when there's limited guidance and support.
Should I get a new job in search of a higher salary and a more engaging work environment? Money is currently the primary factor keeping me tied to this job, given the low cost of living in my city.
I'm aware that staying in a job for a short period of time can have its drawbacks, but I'm at a stage in my career where I want to make sure I'm on the right path and continually improving my skills. Have any of you been in a similar situation? If so, what did you do to overcome these challenges?
Which school you graduated from?
That has absolutely no bearing on this.
Agree that it shouldn't ... but there are some places where either alumni form cliques or teachers favor former students.
Maybe for getting the initial position but the OP has been at the firm for a year. Where they went to school is immaterial to the work that they are able to produce and thus the opportunities they would get. If a firm is only giving opportunities to alumni of certain schools regardless of a person's work then they are not a place you should be working with.
So you've been at your current firm for a year?
If you current firm isn't willing to provide you with the opportunities for growth and development that you want then it's time to look for another firm. Early in your career it's normal to move around every few years. I wouldn't worry about only being this firm for a year. Most potential employers will understand this and realize you're looking for 'Y' and you where getting 'X'.
This. It's pretty typical in the current market for people to move frequently, especially at an entry level. Based on the info you've given it may be hard to make more much more money necessarily, the market seems to be slowing a little and you will probably still get treated like a fresh grad give or take. I'd probably talk to some other people in the office at your level, sounds like you have a lot of coworkers, to see if they are having similar issues, this seems like a pretty common struggle people have for their first few years.
The op does need to look around and see if a) is the prof. growth issue is prevalent in the firm or is it limited to their particular manager and b) is future advancement at this firm worth sticking around for? Do the mid and upper level people in the firm do things that the OP would like to do someday?
Dude makes 70K+ as entry level in a low cost city is still complaining. People now a day. Go search for other jobs, then you will find out that they will pay you even lower. 60K in NYC. 50K In other regions. Oh go look for those starchitect offices.
Your dejected, paltry attitude is tiring and depressing. Go do something productive that cheers you up.
To paraphrase The Dude, "He's not wrong, he's just an asshole."
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Watch it man there's a beverage here.
To be fair we don't know where the OP lives or what he considers a 'low cost of living'. I think Jay is just jealous.
Duh of course I am jealous, I would love to start my architect salary at low 70K in low cost of living city. OP works in a huge corporation so I can see why. There are some small firms in NYC paying 40-50K to fresh grads even in todays economy.
I'm sorry, I wasn't listening.
You don't know what city the OP lives in or what he/she considers a 'low cost of living'. There are cities in the US that are just as or more expensive to live in than NYC.
Well I must admit I may have exaggerated a bit. Having spent some time living in NYC and the bay area, the cost of everything and everywhere else seems rather affordable to me. Without delving into the details, I live in a major city in Midwest.
Exaggerated on what part? Your pay or the affordability of the city you live in? I'm thinking you live in Chicago, Detroit, or Minneapolis / St.Paul.
The affordability of the city I live in. Yup, it's one of those
OP, just try to apply to some other jobs. Smaller firm if you want full project involvement. Design positions if you don't like those boring coordination and AOR stuff. I just don't think you can maintain that salary. Large corporation pays the best. Anyway, after you get some offers in, you will know. I would love to join some chilling large corporation making 6 digit salary. Too bad my commute to NYC is just too far. Will take almost 2 hours to get there. And can't afford the house there. Need at least a mil for a decent apartment.
Large corporations do not always pay the best. Also you need to look at the cost of living for the area you're in.
Take me for example. I live in community of under 400,000 people. I make just over six figures. If I were to move to Denver and work for one of the huge firms I'd be making about $15k more however the cost of living is nearly 3.5x what it is here.
Really Chad. Your firm pays you 100K in salary? Must really value you. I am pretty sure my firm views anyone not in their core group as disposable tools. People come and go all the time. Well large corporation generally pays better, of course unless you find a company that values you and gives you above average rate. But it usually takes time to grow in that same company. Or excel at office politics and raise to the rank quick.
Really. I have around 20 years of experience and own non voting stock in the firm. My firm values all of it's team members and we're only an 11 person firm.
I'm wondering what growth someone with 1 year of experience should expect and think we could do better for OP by describing what opportunities are given for that level of experience.
For my part as a PM, I feel like our company gives people at all levels of experience ample opportunity to grow, at least compared to my time elsewhere and what I got. Currently PMing a couple projects in the office, everyone on my teams are invited to the client and engineering meetings, provided CA experiences (design/build firm), provided a mentor/buddy, and given opportunities to contribute to pursuits, design presentations, DD and CD sets, and submittals, FRs, and RFIs. I really can't think of anything we don't let them try.
However, a few of my younger colleagues (1-3 years experience) have definitely expressed dissatisfaction regarding the speed of their progress or the agency of their designs. Without getting into it, the gap between where they want to be and where we believe them to be seems wide.
Using bathroom details as the cliche example, no one wants to spend any time on them and yet none of them can quote me clearance requirements. They don't outright disagree when we show RFIs because a dimension was missed or change orders due to uncoordinated items, or refer to potential lawsuits, etc. They just don't want that to be their job. I feel like some people at my office could be the OP.
OPs history was interesting, a year ago they asked if they should get an MArch or work. Many people said work! Per this, they went to work, and got 70k+ starting to boot. Not bad OP, not bad.
I've often thought larger firms (like most of the ones I've worked at) really should have some sort of formal rotation system for junior staff, having them spend a meaningful amount of time (maybe 3mos to a year) in each "department" (which could also nicely dovetail with getting them their AXP hours). The reality is I almost always see people getting pigeonholed WAY to early in their careers.
Thanks joseffischer, this is exactly what I'm looking for! As I was reading your comment, I was checking off most of the boxes of the opportunities you mentioned. This really make me realize that it's actually a big part of me being not happy with what we do as an architect, in lieu of my firm/manager. I think this is one thing that they don't prepare us in school - is that 90% of your work time is spent on coordination and reviewing RFIs and submittals, while all we did in school was design and draw. That being said, moving to another firm (non-design based/big corp) won't really help, so I guess I just have to suck it up or change my career.
One of the sad facts of this profession is that almost none of us get the level of mentorship we'd like, so if professional development is your main issue with the firm you're at you might not find it any better anywhere else. (FWIW, I'm now one of the old graybeards who is supposed to do the mentoring and I really wish I could be the mentor I wish I'd had, but the realities of project scheduling and budgeting mean I almost never have the time I wish I did to spend with the junior staff.)
One generalization that isn't universally true but is valid most of the time is that you'll find more opportunity for learning in smaller firms. The trade-off for this is that smaller firms often pay a bit less than large firms in the same market, and are also more susceptible to the economic ups and downs.
One thing I would recommend in considering other jobs is to find out how much support they give, both in money and time off, for pursuing continuing education/professional development - since the firms that will really help you much in-house are "unicorns", the next best thing is a firm that will support you in pursuing your development wherever you can get it.
I totally agree on your statement about opportunity for learning in smaller firms vs bigger firms. The money was (and still is) a major factor in my job offer decision, sadly you can't kill two birds with one stone.
You should not be anywhere that you don’t want to be unless you have to be there for someone or something. In other words, if you have responsibilities like a kid to feed, a new mortgage, a sick person that you are caring for, then money and stability is priority, so you may need to put that first. Short of a situation like that, if you don’t have any dependents you should go wherever you need to go to further your career. Why? Because before you know it you will likely have financial responsibilities and dependents and you won’t have the mobility. Use the mobility when you have it to get as many ducks in a row as you can.
It’s extremely cliche but do what makes you happy. I spent a lot of the first part of my career and post college life doing what I thought I should do rather than what I wanted to do. Looking back, all the decisions I made that lined up with society’s expectations just led me further down a bland consumerist lifestyle and all the decisions I made that I thought were interesting and people warned against were the decisions that had the greatest impact on making my life interesting and enriched.
I think I can offer some advice that you won't often hear from an owner's perspective: Be the driver of your own career. Stop waiting for others to mentor you, and instead request a mentorship. Trust me, your boss won't be magically aware of what you want, and you need to let them know. Their reaction should tell you how invested they are in you, and whether or not you want to stay. Accountability goes both ways.
Having said all of the above, you're only a year in. I've forgotten more in the last week than you've ever known. Maybe slow your roll, take a breath, and figure out what you actually want, instead of being reactive. Ambition is wonderful, but you don't know enough to know how large the delta is between where you are, and where you want to be.
New patient but purposeful. It's always worked for me.
*Be patient but purposeful