So I had this idea that I was thinking of incorporating into my architecture portfolio. It is just steel folded into a square and then some sort of netting in the middle. Unskilled laborers would simply stack these as shown and screw them together -then you they pack them with whatever each materials are present. My thinking is this would make clay buildings much sturdier and easier to construct. Some square frames could have windows preinstalled or holes for ventilation.... etc.
The metal thickness would be extremely thin and the overall size of these squares would be around 2-4 feet and maybe 3-5 inches thick. (The CAD model was made in 2 minutes but shows the general idea) Of course, a lot more thinking needs to be done but I am looking to know if there are any dead-end issues with this idea from the start.
Thank you
deltar
May 8, 23 6:17 pm
I can't speak to the concept, but I can speak to the labor. Have you ever stacked block in the construction world? While it doesn't require a genius it is by no means unskilled work. I think before advancing this concept you should reevaluate your views on construction laborers.
graphemic
May 8, 23 6:23 pm
Agreed with deltar. It seems you might be coming at this from a "make construction easier = more accessible" angle, to be very generous. Anyone with experience in construction would tell you that the "ease" of various methods isn't really the issue, and as already stated, there is no such thing as unskilled labor.
Again, to be generous, it seems like you're learning and maybe building a portfolio. If so, it's great to show ideas you come up with even if they are ultimately unrealistic. You want the idea to show your thought process, though, not reveal your ignorance.
KingsMake
May 8, 23 8:30 pm
What would you say the issue is then? From the very little research I did, it seems like the issues are that mud construction is just not so durable, and the wooden wireframe is very complicated to put together.
KingsMake
May 8, 23 8:30 pm
I am trying to learn and avoid showing my ignorance in this subject should it go on my portfolio.
graphemic
May 11, 23 11:51 pm
I mean, what the "issue" is always depends on context. Where you are, who you're talking to, what the project is. And again, I was just assuming that accessibility was your broader goal. Some might say that mud construction wouldn't be a problem if you had access to money, hah. I'm also curious where your research is focused... traditional building methods in my mind wouldn't struggle with durability since they've lasted enough to become a tradition, unless you're applying post-industrial standards... I'm rambling. So, I think instead of offering your design as a solution to a social problem, show your research and offer your design as part of a broader building tradition. It claims less authority, and communicating your research and understanding is a huge skill, one that an admissions committee would swoon over if you do it well. It's great for de
signers to tackle social problems, but you're still learning. This is all just my take on semantics, I think it's really critical that you do some mock-ups yourself.
graphemic
May 8, 23 6:28 pm
Also, regarding the idea: folding metal/paper at scale is something you can experiment with very easily. Don't model it, do it. Especially if it's so unskilled ;)
Wood Guy
May 9, 23 9:29 am
It's an interesting idea and I'm not aware of anything quite like it on the market. It has elements in common with panelized construction, such as this company local to me that does straw bale panels: https://www.croft.haus/.
I agree with the others who say that the scale is perfect for you to model it yourself. I've done enough sheetmetal work to say that it's going to be a little more challenging than you expect, but I think you have an interesting concept that is worth exploring.
x-jla
May 9, 23 12:21 pm
this won’t work.
x-jla
May 9, 23 1:01 pm
Packing clay into a grate material will cause extrusions. Making it difficult to reach a good density. And the wall strength is relying on the frame itself…which doesn’t sound like it’s meant to be too structural. When we pour concrete over a rebar cage, you need to be careful not to drop the concrete from too high, or it separates the aggregate causing a weak spot within the slab…
Wood Guy
May 9, 23 2:34 pm
Weren't you recently promoting using more local soil as a construction material? I might be thinking of someone else. These metal forms are pretty small and could be packed on the ground or off-site, allowed to dry before installation, I think the concept could work. In other words, instead of saying it won't work, how would you make it work?
x-jla
May 9, 23 6:36 pm
WG, I wasn’t trying to be dismissive, just doesn’t seem like a good design from the image provided. There are already systems for pressing earth blocks. These would be pretty heavy if packed on the ground and lifted into place. Not going on to be easy to screw together…let alone on a flimsy frame that would be bending and warping from the weight of the mud. And if it’s meant to tilt up, that thing would buckle between the cages because there is no structural continuity between sections…just my initial intuition from building things. It would be better to think of a type of form that could be reused and moved by one or two people. Like a modular movable adjustable form work that could be used to build a rammed earth wall….
x-jla
May 9, 23 6:38 pm
Gabion cages are even a real pain in the ass to work with. I’ve done several. Not as easy as they seem..
JonathanLivingston
May 9, 23 2:00 pm
Reminds me of ICF systems. You could look at those as an example, though they flow concrete to fill them. If I'm understanding your idea correctly the advantage to me looks to be more in the ability to use a wider array of site-available materials.
Unlike rebar and concrete, earthen materials don't effectively bond to steel. This concept would work better if the containment cage was wood.
JLC-1
May 10, 23 1:21 pm
make it, test it.
Miyadaiku
May 12, 23 3:15 am
I would say you could make low budget experiment that will simulate it pretty well.
First pick yourself up a few 30 packs of Stroh's and invite your buddies over. Shotgun every one of them so they have punctures (texture for the clay to maybe bond to, but probably not). You will be very unskilled at this point so try your hand at stacking those to make a mockup and just staple them together, screwing is too much work. Then try your hand at covering it with clay without it toppling over. If you have a viable wall afterward, you may have a million dollar idea.
Kowski
May 14, 23 8:07 am
Something for you to think about: what is the problem with clay / earth construction that this frame system solves? You say it makes it more durable, but you should think through and describe the durability issues in more detail. What are the internal stresses that you expect in a clay facade, and how does the frame resist them? Like others have said, since this is for a portfolio you don't have to solve every little issue, but identifying specific problems will help you think through the issues that your idea needs to solve to be successful.
So I had this idea that I was thinking of incorporating into my architecture portfolio. It is just steel folded into a square and then some sort of netting in the middle. Unskilled laborers would simply stack these as shown and screw them together -then you they pack them with whatever each materials are present. My thinking is this would make clay buildings much sturdier and easier to construct. Some square frames could have windows preinstalled or holes for ventilation.... etc.
The metal thickness would be extremely thin and the overall size of these squares would be around 2-4 feet and maybe 3-5 inches thick. (The CAD model was made in 2 minutes but shows the general idea) Of course, a lot more thinking needs to be done but I am looking to know if there are any dead-end issues with this idea from the start.
Thank you
I can't speak to the concept, but I can speak to the labor. Have you ever stacked block in the construction world? While it doesn't require a genius it is by no means unskilled work. I think before advancing this concept you should reevaluate your views on construction laborers.
Agreed with deltar. It seems you might be coming at this from a "make construction easier = more accessible" angle, to be very generous. Anyone with experience in construction would tell you that the "ease" of various methods isn't really the issue, and as already stated, there is no such thing as unskilled labor.
Again, to be generous, it seems like you're learning and maybe building a portfolio. If so, it's great to show ideas you come up with even if they are ultimately unrealistic. You want the idea to show your thought process, though, not reveal your ignorance.
What would you say the issue is then? From the very little research I did, it seems like the issues are that mud construction is just not so durable, and the wooden wireframe is very complicated to put together.
I am trying to learn and avoid showing my ignorance in this subject should it go on my portfolio.
I mean, what the "issue" is always depends on context. Where you are, who you're talking to, what the project is. And again, I was just assuming that accessibility was your broader goal. Some might say that mud construction wouldn't be a problem if you had access to money, hah. I'm also curious where your research is focused... traditional building methods in my mind wouldn't struggle with durability since they've lasted enough to become a tradition, unless you're applying post-industrial standards... I'm rambling. So, I think instead of offering your design as a solution to a social problem, show your research and offer your design as part of a broader building tradition. It claims less authority, and communicating your research and understanding is a huge skill, one that an admissions committee would swoon over if you do it well. It's great for de signers to tackle social problems, but you're still learning. This is all just my take on semantics, I think it's really critical that you do some mock-ups yourself.
Also, regarding the idea: folding metal/paper at scale is something you can experiment with very easily. Don't model it, do it. Especially if it's so unskilled ;)
It's an interesting idea and I'm not aware of anything quite like it on the market. It has elements in common with panelized construction, such as this company local to me that does straw bale panels: https://www.croft.haus/.
Or gabbion construction, using metal wire frames: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Or damp-packed hempcrete: https://materialspalette.org/h...
I agree with the others who say that the scale is perfect for you to model it yourself. I've done enough sheetmetal work to say that it's going to be a little more challenging than you expect, but I think you have an interesting concept that is worth exploring.
this won’t work.
Packing clay into a grate material will cause extrusions. Making it difficult to reach a good density. And the wall strength is relying on the frame itself…which doesn’t sound like it’s meant to be too structural. When we pour concrete over a rebar cage, you need to be careful not to drop the concrete from too high, or it separates the aggregate causing a weak spot within the slab…
Weren't you recently promoting using more local soil as a construction material? I might be thinking of someone else. These metal forms are pretty small and could be packed on the ground or off-site, allowed to dry before installation, I think the concept could work. In other words, instead of saying it won't work, how would you make it work?
WG, I wasn’t trying to be dismissive, just doesn’t seem like a good design from the image provided. There are already systems for pressing earth blocks. These would be pretty heavy if packed on the ground and lifted into place. Not going on to be easy to screw together…let alone on a flimsy frame that would be bending and warping from the weight of the mud. And if it’s meant to tilt up, that thing would buckle between the cages because there is no structural continuity between sections…just my initial intuition from building things. It would be better to think of a type of form that could be reused and moved by one or two people. Like a modular movable adjustable form work that could be used to build a rammed earth wall….
Gabion cages are even a real pain in the ass to work with. I’ve done several. Not as easy as they seem..
Reminds me of ICF systems. You could look at those as an example, though they flow concrete to fill them. If I'm understanding your idea correctly the advantage to me looks to be more in the ability to use a wider array of site-available materials.
Kinda looks like these void filling crates.
Landscape Void Fill (atlantiscorporation.com.au)
Unlike rebar and concrete, earthen materials don't effectively bond to steel. This concept would work better if the containment cage was wood.
make it, test it.
I would say you could make low budget experiment that will simulate it pretty well.
First pick yourself up a few 30 packs of Stroh's and invite your buddies over. Shotgun every one of them so they have punctures (texture for the clay to maybe bond to, but probably not). You will be very unskilled at this point so try your hand at stacking those to make a mockup and just staple them together, screwing is too much work. Then try your hand at covering it with clay without it toppling over. If you have a viable wall afterward, you may have a million dollar idea.
Something for you to think about: what is the problem with clay / earth construction that this frame system solves? You say it makes it more durable, but you should think through and describe the durability issues in more detail. What are the internal stresses that you expect in a clay facade, and how does the frame resist them? Like others have said, since this is for a portfolio you don't have to solve every little issue, but identifying specific problems will help you think through the issues that your idea needs to solve to be successful.