Well, the post title says it all, but as a mid-level stooge who has been licensed for 5 years, I'm constantly hustling to attend lunch and learns to keep up with my 12 yearly LU/HSW units for NYS licensure renewal. Its annoying to say the least. I'm not a member of the AIA because my firm won't pay for it until I become an associate.
Both at my current firm and at previous firms, I've noticed that the Partners and Principals never attend these lunch and learns. How peculiar! Maybe they are busy wining and dining developers. Maybe they don't want to fight over bologna sandwiches with the rank n' file/hoi polloi. So, how are they getting their Continuing Education credits? Are they attending weekly local AIA events? Doing a weekend a cram session when their license renews, or pulling some scam where they get their administrative assistant to log them in to the lunch and learns and collect the certificates without actually being in attendance.
Anyway, I envy people who are in states that don't require any continuing education, but how does everyone generally keep up with these credits in the most painless way possible?
Miyadaiku
Apr 21, 23 1:36 am
I have to do the NCARB courses online since I'm overseas...it may be the most painful way if you don't really enjoy reading (lucky me, I do).
sameolddoctor
Apr 21, 23 2:32 am
The principals are probably busy brining in real work than sitting in some boring ass lunch n learns.
Miyadaiku
Apr 21, 23 4:42 am
".....they get their administrative assistant to log them in to the lunch and
learns and collect the certificates without actually being in attendance."
also mostly yes in my experience.
kenchiku
Apr 21, 23 7:12 am
They attend at my office.
msparchitect
Apr 21, 23 9:10 am
One of the partners at my previous firm in NYC got audited and then he was suddenly in the lunch n learns.
Also, in NYS its every 3 years, not every year. So you just need to attend a conference every 3 years and you're usually good.
Strange Cascades
Apr 21, 23 9:19 am
So we have 1 vote for they "suck it up and attend the lunch n learns", 1 for they "do a 36 hour weekend CEU conference session", 1 for "they put their names on the sign-in sheets by proxy"
Non Sequitur
Apr 21, 23 9:22 am
When I used to organize L&Ls, I would not agree to anything with the presenter unless we had some management representation signed on. This has nothing to do with CEU and everything to do with having someone who can actually make decisions on materials/products in the room. Within this, it's just a bunch of wanker interns, junior and drafting staff happy to get a free lunch.
But, to your point... never seen anyone attend by proxies. Also, only 12hours per year? That's all you need to do?
Chad Miller
Apr 21, 23 10:27 am
In the US various state and AIA CEU requirements are different. In CO I need 24 CEU's every two years, 20 of them have to be related to health and safety. For AIA I need 16 CEU's with no requirement for health and safety. In MN I need 14 CEU's each year with 12 being health and safety. I typically end up with around 20 CEU's each year.
reallynotmyname
Apr 21, 23 10:33 am
The vast majority of states where we work want 12 HSW per year to keep your architectural license. Does AIA even bother checking to see if people got 16 hours?
Chad Miller
Apr 21, 23 10:37 am
I get emails if I don't have enough CEU's from AIA around September. I've never not met the CEU requirements so I don't know what happens.
Strange Cascades
Apr 21, 23 10:44 am
Oh that's another big reason I haven't joined the AIA, is I'm too lazy to get the extra 4 learning units beyond what NY state requires...but if they don't actually check...maybe I should join!
Chad Miller
Apr 21, 23 10:49 am
I didn't say that AIA doesn't check your number of CEU's, quite the opposite. I said I don't know what they do if you don't reach your required number of CEU's.
In my experience it's actually easier to use AIA.
If you are a member then your don't have to report anything - just give the presenter your AIA number and your CEU's go all states you're licensed in. If not then you have to manually report all of your CEU's for each state. This typically includes having to write a short description of what you've learned. I've never had do any of that with AIA. Also with AIA you get access to self reported CEU's. Their is a limit on how many of these self reported CEU's you are allowed to use each year though. It can differ by state.
Non Sequitur
Apr 21, 23 12:41 pm
It's 70hrs for me every 2 years. 25 needs to be "structured" with certificate, the rest can be random whatever within a whole shopping list of categories. I actually claim archinect commenting as part of professional discussions. Max 10hr per cycle. They do give us special rotating categories to fill each cycle. Last cycle was about gender equality. This cycle is about envelop energy design.
Chad Miller
Apr 21, 23 12:47 pm
Non
Sounds like you have pretty much the same amount of 'structured' CEU's as most states in USA. 45 hours of 'unstructured' education where posting here can count - pffft - that's a joke. I suppose you are in the Great White North so they need to be certain that you all stay somewhat connected to other humans and don't just converse with moose. ;)
Non Sequitur
Apr 21, 23 12:54 pm
don't forget the beavers.
Chad Miller
Apr 21, 23 12:57 pm
Who could forget the beavers?\ They are adorable! Also they're not snooty like moose.
Strange Cascades
Apr 21, 23 9:39 am
Its 36 hours every 3 years in NY State. Not too bad, but its complicated by the fact that I only get 70% of the L+L presenters to actually send me a certificate for my self reporting file without nagging them.
Ironically, even the principals in my office don't have much of an influence on products and materials--the owner's rep and CM usually dictate what they want based on previous projects, so the Lunch n Learns are sort of a big charade anyway.
Chad Miller
Apr 21, 23 10:23 am
All the partners in every firm I've ever worked at in the past 18 plus years have attended the lunch and learns with the rest of the firm.
reallynotmyname
Apr 21, 23 10:28 am
My old bosses would use the firms money to travel en masse to the various annual AIA conventions and conferences and get all of their CEU's there. They wouldn't be caught dead at an in-office lunch-n-learn.
Chad Miller
Apr 21, 23 10:35 am
Why their hate for the lunch-n-learn?
Strange Cascades
Apr 21, 23 10:40 am
Reallynotmyname--Ok, now we are getting warmer! This is the answer I was sort of looking for. So at these AIA conferences, are they sort of fast and loose with the granting of learning units? Like how many learning units do you accrue per day? If say, you get 8 units per day, is it really 8 hours of listening to boring lectures about VAV boxes, Low-E coatings, and deflection tracks; or is it more like 8 hours of generalized schmoozin' and boozin'; and maybe even getting to watch some standup comedy by Julia Louis Dreyfus?
Chad Miller
Apr 21, 23 10:43 am
All the
AIA conferences I've been to in CO scan in your badge at the beginning and end of the lecture. You could get around 8 hours of CEU's a day and it was really 8 hours of lectures. I've never seen any sort of 'fast and loose' things going on. I've actually seen someone not be allowed to have their friends badge scanned before the lecture. Apparently you need to be scanned in within the first 10 min of the lecture and at the end for it to count.
The schmoozin' and boozin' takes place after the lectures or during meal breaks.
Strange Cascades
Apr 21, 23 10:49 am
Ok, well even if it's truly 8 hours of legitimate lectures, I suppose from the perspective of a firm principal (typically at a larger firm), being able to do this on company time and the company dime seems advantageous to slogging through in-office lunch and learns.
reallynotmyname
Apr 21, 23 11:17 am
The AIA in-person stuff I have attended has always been legit. Peoples' butts are in the seats for the duration of the program. The cheating is much more common at in-office stuff where there's just a sign-in sheet and no checking if the people stayed for the whole hour or they bailed out after 10 minutes or whatever time needed to just eat the free lunch.
Strange Cascades
Apr 21, 23 11:45 am
Ok, so the final question--do the firm principals at large offices get to bill time spent at these AIA conferences as office overhead or do they have to take the time off as vacation?
Chad Miller
Apr 21, 23 12:06 pm
Depends on the firm. In my firm we count this a general overhead education and get paid for it.
Why don't you ask the people at your firm?
msparchitect
Apr 21, 23 2:50 pm
Strange, do you realize that something like an AIA convention is all a tax write off for the firm/firm owners? It's part of running the business. So likely not directly billed back to a specific project, but covered by the overhead fees that you as an employee generates for the firm.
And I've been to an AIA and USGBC convention before. They are what you make of them in terms of lectures. There are some great ones that have nothing to do with specific products or systems, it's all what you're interested in. ULI also has some great ones.
graphemic
Apr 21, 23 1:30 pm
Principals are usually at ours, but my PM did just have to take a day off to do a day-long course. It was pretty funny.
joseffischer
Apr 21, 23 3:32 pm
my experience at different firms, PMs and especially Sr PMs often had to play catchup. Principals got them at events from AIA or Bond. I went to BondUS last year and it was butts in seat but way less "we're going to track you" type of way. Certs got sent out a couple weeks after attendance.
joseffischer
Apr 21, 23 3:33 pm
firm didn't pay for the BondUS trip, BondUS did, I got highly smoozed (felt like a client) by tons of extremely high-priced product options to solve problems I didn't have. Finally understood why new-fangled product X dropped in my lap as a PM
homme_du_jura
Apr 21, 23 5:45 pm
Once I was sitting next to my boss at a lunch & learn that took place in a small room due to ongoing construction in our office, so we were pretty cramped. I could tell that lunch had kicked in for him. I could see he was struggling to keep his eyes open and his breathing gradually turned into snoring. Soon everybody in the room stared to notice. This man was the CEO of a 1200-strong global architecture firm with a dozen offices. It was glorious!
Wood Guy
Apr 21, 23 6:12 pm
My former employer seemed happy enough to pay me to go to seminars and lunch-and-learns, and even the occasional conference, but he was never interested in going to them himself, and that was one factor in my leaving. I got tired of trying to summarize what I had spent hours or a day learning effectively enough to convince him of the benefits.
bowling_ball
Apr 21, 23 8:16 pm
Because I've got lunch meetings 4 out of 5 days of every week, really. No big conspiracy. I go when I feel like it, so long as there's nothing more important to be doing (which is... always).
It kind of depends on the office and individual interests, but the value in me knowing that there's a new air barrier that can be installed at -10c instead of -5c is almost zero - I pay others to know that stuff, even though I used to really enjoy that kind of R&D. Put another way - do you really want your boss getting in the way, or would you rather them be focused on higher-level things?
Once upon a time I signed up with my then-bosses for a technical building envelope course, since the deadline was coming and we all needed the hours. The day comes, we arrive at the location, I sign in and walk into the room. I turn around and watch my bosses sign in, turn on their heels, and go back to the office. I thought to myself "you can do that??"
Miyadaiku
Apr 21, 23 8:22 pm
To contrast this with Japan, we have to take a 1-day seminar/exam that the Ministry of Land and Infrastructure organizes every 3 years. They sent me a book in magic moon runes to study...I'd gladly trade it for lunch and learns again...
luvu
Apr 21, 23 11:16 pm
It’s 20 hours a year where i’m based, 10 of them have to be formal/structured. We normally have guest speakers come in the office doing a presentation on various topics ( which have been curated by the office each year ).
OM..
Apr 25, 23 3:57 pm
you can get the CEU points by taking online quizzes pretty quickly / easily. Arch Record has a limited number of free ones and a site called BNP Media has a vast free online archive.
Attend the lunch and learns and take the online quizzes you're interested in. take back control!
Well, the post title says it all, but as a mid-level stooge who has been licensed for 5 years, I'm constantly hustling to attend lunch and learns to keep up with my 12 yearly LU/HSW units for NYS licensure renewal. Its annoying to say the least. I'm not a member of the AIA because my firm won't pay for it until I become an associate.
Both at my current firm and at previous firms, I've noticed that the Partners and Principals never attend these lunch and learns. How peculiar! Maybe they are busy wining and dining developers. Maybe they don't want to fight over bologna sandwiches with the rank n' file/hoi polloi. So, how are they getting their Continuing Education credits? Are they attending weekly local AIA events? Doing a weekend a cram session when their license renews, or pulling some scam where they get their administrative assistant to log them in to the lunch and learns and collect the certificates without actually being in attendance.
Anyway, I envy people who are in states that don't require any continuing education, but how does everyone generally keep up with these credits in the most painless way possible?
I have to do the NCARB courses online since I'm overseas...it may be the most painful way if you don't really enjoy reading (lucky me, I do).
The principals are probably busy brining in real work than sitting in some boring ass lunch n learns.
".....they get their administrative assistant to log them in to the lunch and
learns and collect the certificates without actually being in
attendance."
also mostly yes in my experience.
They attend at my office.
One of the partners at my previous firm in NYC got audited and then he was suddenly in the lunch n learns.
Also, in NYS its every 3 years, not every year. So you just need to attend a conference every 3 years and you're usually good.
So we have 1 vote for they "suck it up and attend the lunch n learns", 1 for they "do a 36 hour weekend CEU conference session", 1 for "they put their names on the sign-in sheets by proxy"
When I used to organize L&Ls, I would not agree to anything with the presenter unless we had some management representation signed on. This has nothing to do with CEU and everything to do with having someone who can actually make decisions on materials/products in the room. Within this, it's just a bunch of wanker interns, junior and drafting staff happy to get a free lunch.
But, to your point... never seen anyone attend by proxies. Also, only 12hours per year? That's all you need to do?
In the US various state and AIA CEU requirements are different. In CO I need 24 CEU's every two years, 20 of them have to be related to health and safety. For AIA I need 16 CEU's with no requirement for health and safety. In MN I need 14 CEU's each year with 12 being health and safety. I typically end up with around 20 CEU's each year.
The vast majority of states where we work want 12 HSW per year to keep your architectural license. Does AIA even bother checking to see if people got 16 hours?
I get emails if I don't have enough CEU's from AIA around September. I've never not met the CEU requirements so I don't know what happens.
Oh that's another big reason I haven't joined the AIA, is I'm too lazy to get the extra 4 learning units beyond what NY state requires...but if they don't actually check...maybe I should join!
I didn't say that AIA doesn't check your number of CEU's, quite the opposite. I said I don't know what they do if you don't reach your required number of CEU's.
In my experience it's actually easier to use AIA.
If you are a member then your don't have to report anything - just give the presenter your AIA number and your CEU's go all states you're licensed in. If not then you have to manually report all of your CEU's for each state. This typically includes having to write a short description of what you've learned. I've never had do any of that with AIA. Also with AIA you get access to self reported CEU's. Their is a limit on how many of these self reported CEU's you are allowed to use each year though. It can differ by state.
It's 70hrs for me every 2 years. 25 needs to be "structured" with certificate, the rest can be random whatever within a whole shopping list of categories. I actually claim archinect commenting as part of professional discussions. Max 10hr per cycle. They do give us special rotating categories to fill each cycle. Last cycle was about gender equality. This cycle is about envelop energy design.
Non
Sounds like you have pretty much the same amount of 'structured' CEU's as most states in USA. 45 hours of 'unstructured' education where posting here can count - pffft - that's a joke. I suppose you are in the Great White North so they need to be certain that you all stay somewhat connected to other humans and don't just converse with moose. ;)
don't forget the beavers.
Who could forget the beavers?\ They are adorable! Also they're not snooty like moose.
Its 36 hours every 3 years in NY State. Not too bad, but its complicated by the fact that I only get 70% of the L+L presenters to actually send me a certificate for my self reporting file without nagging them.
Ironically, even the principals in my office don't have much of an influence on products and materials--the owner's rep and CM usually dictate what they want based on previous projects, so the Lunch n Learns are sort of a big charade anyway.
All the partners in every firm I've ever worked at in the past 18 plus years have attended the lunch and learns with the rest of the firm.
My old bosses would use the firms money to travel en masse to the various annual AIA conventions and conferences and get all of their CEU's there. They wouldn't be caught dead at an in-office lunch-n-learn.
Why their hate for the lunch-n-learn?
Reallynotmyname--Ok, now we are getting warmer! This is the answer I was sort of looking for. So at these AIA conferences, are they sort of fast and loose with the granting of learning units? Like how many learning units do you accrue per day? If say, you get 8 units per day, is it really 8 hours of listening to boring lectures about VAV boxes, Low-E coatings, and deflection tracks; or is it more like 8 hours of generalized schmoozin' and boozin'; and maybe even getting to watch some standup comedy by Julia Louis Dreyfus?
All the AIA conferences I've been to in CO scan in your badge at the beginning and end of the lecture. You could get around 8 hours of CEU's a day and it was really 8 hours of lectures. I've never seen any sort of 'fast and loose' things going on. I've actually seen someone not be allowed to have their friends badge scanned before the lecture. Apparently you need to be scanned in within the first 10 min of the lecture and at the end for it to count.
The schmoozin' and boozin' takes place after the lectures or during meal breaks.
Ok, well even if it's truly 8 hours of legitimate lectures, I suppose from the perspective of a firm principal (typically at a larger firm), being able to do this on company time and the company dime seems advantageous to slogging through in-office lunch and learns.
The AIA in-person stuff I have attended has always been legit. Peoples' butts are in the seats for the duration of the program. The cheating is much more common at in-office stuff where there's just a sign-in sheet and no checking if the people stayed for the whole hour or they bailed out after 10 minutes or whatever time needed to just eat the free lunch.
Ok, so the final question--do the firm principals at large offices get to bill time spent at these AIA conferences as office overhead or do they have to take the time off as vacation?
Depends on the firm. In my firm we count this a general overhead education and get paid for it.
Why don't you ask the people at your firm?
Strange, do you realize that something like an AIA convention is all a tax write off for the firm/firm owners? It's part of running the business. So likely not directly billed back to a specific project, but covered by the overhead fees that you as an employee generates for the firm.
And I've been to an AIA and USGBC convention before. They are what you make of them in terms of lectures. There are some great ones that have nothing to do with specific products or systems, it's all what you're interested in. ULI also has some great ones.
Principals are usually at ours, but my PM did just have to take a day off to do a day-long course. It was pretty funny.
my experience at different firms, PMs and especially Sr PMs often had to play catchup. Principals got them at events from AIA or Bond. I went to BondUS last year and it was butts in seat but way less "we're going to track you" type of way. Certs got sent out a couple weeks after attendance.
firm didn't pay for the BondUS trip, BondUS did, I got highly smoozed (felt like a client) by tons of extremely high-priced product options to solve problems I didn't have. Finally understood why new-fangled product X dropped in my lap as a PM
Once I was sitting next to my boss at a lunch & learn that took place in a small room due to ongoing construction in our office, so we were pretty cramped. I could tell that lunch had kicked in for him. I could see he was struggling to keep his eyes open and his breathing gradually turned into snoring. Soon everybody in the room stared to notice. This man was the CEO of a 1200-strong global architecture firm with a dozen offices. It was glorious!
My former employer seemed happy enough to pay me to go to seminars and lunch-and-learns, and even the occasional conference, but he was never interested in going to them himself, and that was one factor in my leaving. I got tired of trying to summarize what I had spent hours or a day learning effectively enough to convince him of the benefits.
Because I've got lunch meetings 4 out of 5 days of every week, really. No big conspiracy. I go when I feel like it, so long as there's nothing more important to be doing (which is... always).
It kind of depends on the office and individual interests, but the value in me knowing that there's a new air barrier that can be installed at -10c instead of -5c is almost zero - I pay others to know that stuff, even though I used to really enjoy that kind of R&D. Put another way - do you really want your boss getting in the way, or would you rather them be focused on higher-level things?
Once upon a time I signed up with my then-bosses for a technical building envelope course, since the deadline was coming and we all needed the hours. The day comes, we arrive at the location, I sign in and walk into the room. I turn around and watch my bosses sign in, turn on their heels, and go back to the office. I thought to myself "you can do that??"
To contrast this with Japan, we have to take a 1-day seminar/exam that the Ministry of Land and Infrastructure organizes every 3 years. They sent me a book in magic moon runes to study...I'd gladly trade it for lunch and learns again...
It’s 20 hours a year where i’m based, 10 of them have to be formal/structured. We normally have guest speakers come in the office doing a presentation on various topics ( which have been curated by the office each year ).
you can get the CEU points by taking online quizzes pretty quickly / easily. Arch Record has a limited number of free ones and a site called BNP Media has a vast free online archive.
Attend the lunch and learns and take the online quizzes you're interested in. take back control!