I've worked as a software architect for several years and have recently taken an interest in learning about the problems faced by those who professionally design physical architecture; I suspect that my own job is a poor imitation of the "real" thing!
Do you get to spend most of your time heads-down drafting designs? I'd imagine that this probably depends on the size of a firm and the type of clients that you take. How much of your bandwidth is occupied by things like project administration, client communication, etc?
My curiosity is extremely piqued, and I'd love to learn more about what you do :)
Non Sequitur
Apr 4, 23 1:18 pm
First, software architect is a terrible term the tech bro industry uses to make their roles sound sexier. Your job, respectfully, is not even the same sport.
Second, bandwidth, as you put it, is directed to what is most critical at that time and or what is currently on fire. For me, project & construction management can be a full-time gig for several days per week but I try to stop replying to normal emails around 2pm so that I can actually get shit done in the afternoons/evenings. Important clients get a pass but for most things, it can wait until the morning. Design and detailing gets done in the gaps between.
I had a contractor, pre covid, who asked who I could keep all this shit together since I was already reviewing my 5th site of the morning before most mortals have their 2nd cup of coffee. I told them there is nothing important enough that can't wait until tomorrow. This give me a window to do other things like design and drawing production instead of constantly putting out every fire that pops up.
Jordin
Apr 5, 23 12:31 am
I didn't realize the extent to which architects were involved with the management of the construction project itself. It makes perfect sense, and makes me wonder about the dynamic between you/your firm and the boots-on-the-ground project managers (presumably those working for the contractor(s) doing the construction itself).
I definitely relate on needing to put a hard stop to emails and Slack messages in order to get anything done. I plead the 5th RE tech bros trying to add sex appeal to their roles!
Almosthip
Apr 4, 23 3:40 pm
Looking for new employment and you have to sort through the software architect and systems architect positions. Than you see how much money they make compared to the positions you are looking at and you question all your life's decisions and how it got you to that moment.
chris-chitect
Apr 4, 23 6:49 pm
That's so painfully true. I remember that during my job hunt in 2010/11 coming out of the 2008 recession. Not only was the pay better for systems architects, they were far far more abundant.
monosierra
Apr 4, 23 8:00 pm
I came across a passage in a book on the VC industry that basically said that the software engineers and programmers write all the code that underpin modern civilization - from running power plants to the Revit on your desktop. They make the tools that keep other tools working. Thus they are paid a handsome amount so that the world wouldn't crash and burn. Some of them also mint money writing algorithms selling ads and trading massive amounts of money as well.
Jordin
Apr 5, 23 12:37 am
I agree that software underpins modern civilization, but do think that we're generally overpaid relative to the difficulty of the job. With recent AI advances, time will tell how long those of us writing code will continue to be blessed by such favorable supply/demand economics.
In my experience, much of that software underpinning society is really not that far off from crashing and burning haha.
tduds
Apr 5, 23 3:26 pm
"software engineers and programmers write all the code that underpin modern civilization" but they do it in buildings that we design. That's gotta be worth something right?
x-jla
Apr 5, 23 3:54 pm
I wonder if an architect has ever been sued in a courtroom they designed ….
x-jla
Apr 5, 23 3:54 pm
Or jailed in a prison they designed
Chad Miller
Apr 5, 23 4:04 pm
I've been in a hospital and clinic I've designed.
square.
Apr 5, 23 4:35 pm
chatgpt is far likelier to replace on of these "architects" than the other..
Richard Balkins
Apr 5, 23 9:03 pm
""software engineers and programmers write all the code that underpin modern civilization" but they do it in buildings that we design. That's gotta be worth something right?" - not necessarily considering most jobs can be done inside a room in a home. Most homes aren't designed by licensed architects. Most were designed by building designers or designer-contractor or previously in the pre-20th century, vernacular with no drawing or any formal design process. All you technically need is a relatively dry environment for electrical devices to operate in. A dry cave with electrical services could work, too. Just some things to point out so you don't over inflate your own ego.
tduds
Apr 6, 23 12:50 pm
rick, shush.
b3tadine[sutures]
Apr 4, 23 5:50 pm
I'm curious too. Why do you ask about what it is we do? If you don't mind me saying, whenever a software engineer asks about what our typical day is, I'm feel a little queasy. Something inside me is setting off alarms, and I'm sure you will tell about a tool to make my life and work easier.
Please tell me I'm wrong.
Non Sequitur
Apr 4, 23 6:21 pm
Or they are hawking NFTs.
Jordin
Apr 5, 23 12:48 am
My wife's uncle is an architect with whom I've had some one-off conversations over the years, and I recently talked with an acquaintance who runs a local architecture firm about what his life is like. He spoke of heavy burnout and difficulty finding time to focus on the actual work, which are also things that are common in my industry, and I was curious to find out if this was a broadly shared perspective. One Google search later landed me here!
Admittedly, I was firmly unaware of the cadence with which software engineers sound to be pitching novel life-changing tools and NFTs to architects ;) I've usually been on the other side of the table: every family member or friend has their own idea for *the next big thing*, they just need someone to do the easy part of designing and building it!
curtkram
Apr 4, 23 6:41 pm
i've been watching tv all day and for the historic record, a former president of the united states was just arrested. a problem i'm facing is that a criminal was able to corrupt the united states court system, from circuit court judges such as ralph erickson or steven grasz, all the way up to the supreme court and that made it harder for me to pay off student loans. we as voters need to do better.
x-jla
Apr 5, 23 12:17 am
lol
chris-chitect
Apr 4, 23 8:19 pm
I seem to remember reading some guidelines about calling yourself an architect without being licensed. It was incorrect to call yourself an architect, with an architecture degree but no license, yet calling yourself a mortgage architect or sandwich architect were listed as permitted examples.
Jordin
Apr 5, 23 12:52 am
Was a chris-chitect among those permitted examples, or would I need a license to call myself that as well? lol
monosierra
Apr 5, 23 8:48 am
The AIA is powerless enough within the AEC industry, let alone outside it.
x-jla
Apr 5, 23 1:37 pm
Sandwich architecture is no joke.
Richard Balkins
Apr 5, 23 9:13 pm
What you don't understand is that there are limits to enforcement of the architect title. What you were taught is an oversimplification but made so you would least likely get yourself in trouble because they just aren't comfortable in their ability to train students in the nuance. The reason why a person like a software architect can be used by a non-licensed person is because the public can reasonably assume a software architect service is not going to be producing designs of buildings to be built. A sandwich architect would not be designing buildings. Yet, when you work in an architect office or are designing buildings as a building designer, that becomes an issue. It's about not representing yourself as a licensed architect when you are not licensed.
Chad Miller
Apr 6, 23 1:42 pm
What if you work in an architectural office and a sandwich shop?
ivanmillya
Apr 6, 23 2:35 pm
What if you make habitable spaces out of sandwiches?
Chad Miller
Apr 6, 23 2:39 pm
Edible architecture. I like it!
Richard Balkins
Apr 6, 23 5:13 pm
Chad, if I worked in an architect office and a sandwich shop. It's context that matters. I can freely say I am a software architect in context with software work. Yet, I can not so freely do so as a building designer or as an employee working for an architect. If I worked at a sandwhich shop, I can freely do so in the specific context.
Richard Balkins
Apr 6, 23 5:16 pm
Jovan, if you did that, you should be shot (with penicillin). It's only temporarily habitable but it'll get moldy.
Chad Miller
Apr 6, 23 5:22 pm
Rick:
Richard Balkins
Apr 6, 23 6:07 pm
I figure it was a joke but the topic at hand is serious and requires staying serious about the matter. Legal matter is no joke and knowing when the architect title law is applicable and enforceable and when it is not, is something that should be taught properly but frankly, the profession doesn't have a damn clue because they were taught by those who either didn't have a clue or those who simply didn't care to teach it and disserviced the students and the profession by cutting too many corners in the process. I know people whine about search results and finding too many job postings they aren't even qualified for that pays better. So a lot of sour grapes issues.
Le Courvoisier
Apr 5, 23 3:07 am
the entire practice of architecture
Jovan Millet
Apr 5, 23 7:49 am
The problems I face are having to argue about why my professional license and job are not equivalent to a tech bro who liked the word architect and started using it in their job title.
For real though, my problems are that I'm torn between a system where I need to make money working for clients who are almost exclusively quite wealthy, often executing projects that are to the detriment of the local community around me, while slowly realizing the ever-more unlikely feat of just designing quality housing for underserved communities and utilizing my license, knowledge, and experience for communal good.
Non Sequitur
Apr 5, 23 9:20 am
I have a client who gets us to design their exs' houses. Yes plural.... Some sort of strange separation agreement. Oh you liked our previous house design... well, I'll buy you this 1960s one-story and get I'll pay these wankers to design a renovation for you.
ivanmillya
Apr 5, 23 10:14 am
Ew that sounds like drama I would not want to participate in.
Richard Balkins
Apr 5, 23 9:15 pm
First, architects, especially the licensed professions, have always had a penchent for providing services to those who makes more money than themselves because if they made less than you, they wouldn't afford to build any building.
ivanmillya
Apr 6, 23 7:12 am
Wrong. I will not elaborate.
Richard Balkins
Apr 6, 23 5:07 pm
I said penchent... perhaps the word tendency would be better. I was speaking of the profession (particarly the licensed architects and perhaps, engineers) on a collective level and general tendency to selecting clients that earns more money than oneself. Think about it. If they were making less than you, Jovan, it should be ringing an alarm. The chances are, you don't make enough money for lenders to lend you the money amount to build a million dollar or more project. Chances are, you wouldn't get lending for even half a million. Architects will tend to seek clients that has more money than themselves. Key words: Access to capital. If they don't, and make less than a single architect makes, good chances are they won't be able to secure the lending or capital to finance the project and ultimately, it would be a waste of time.
ivanmillya
Apr 7, 23 7:12 am
You have no idea what you're talking about.
tduds
Apr 7, 23 12:26 pm
perhaps the word "penchant" would be better, since it's a word.
Richard Balkins
Apr 7, 23 7:18 pm
Yes, I noticed the typo I made.
Richard Balkins
Apr 7, 23 7:27 pm
Jovan, I'm confident if clients earned less money than you, clients will have almost impossible chance of getting loans to build a house or other building. While they might be able to get lending for remodel work or a small addition or maybe an ADU. As a rule of thumb, it's going to be a bigger pain in the ass to get a client to pay you if your fees amounted to more than 20% of their annual income.... even more so if it is more than they make in a year. Otherwise, you're going to have to have a payment plan spanning decade or more duration. I don't provide building design services for people who don't have an income. I also don't take clients who has no capital. If the client makes more than me, its more promising they can pay. If they can't get the loan or pay out of pocket the entire project already in hand, that should be a warning sign to any professional.
ivanmillya
Apr 7, 23 8:09 pm
You aren't a professional, and have no idea what you're talking about when you're trying to discuss fees, how clients pay, or how they organize in order to fund or develop projects.
Richard Balkins
Apr 7, 23 9:09 pm
A license doesn't really make a person a professional. There is much more to it then obtaining a license. You appear to completely miss my point. The architecture profession has always had a penchant of serving clients that earns more income than themselves. The reason is obvious. They still do. Even if you were designing tiny houses to house the homeless. The homeless is not your client. The ones you enter into contract with is the client. The client and the end-user occupant need not be the same. Frankly, most other professions and generally considered career occupations makes more income than architects. Part of the reason is architects are in a "service" business (consultant service). This has limited yield for labor hour. Do the math. People tend to not pay someone to do a service for them, more than they make, especially if they have to pay for that out of pocket. Much like an employer doesn't pay any employee than the income. Duh. That alone should make sense to you. A professional is engaged in business. If a client made less than you, yes you, wouldn't you be concerned about their ability to fulfill financial/contractual obligations? I would hope so especially if the project is a new custom designed house or building versus a minor remodel project. Those are sensible concerns. Have you ran any business, you would be consider those factors. I been in the business of building design and related consultant services for over 15 years. Reliable clients have money. I am not saying they be billionaire clients. Never said that but financial wealth is important with regards to financial feasibility. I don't need to know every aspect of my client's financial welfare but I would be in a reasonable need to know basis, to know if the client can realistically fund the project and not be blowing smoke up their ass about the project being feasible within their financial resources. There needs to be a candid and forthright dialogue on these matters with clients. That is what I have been referring to.
Richard Balkins
Apr 7, 23 9:23 pm
Most architects income is about the equivalent of school teachers to school administrators (school principals)... in that ballpark. To obtain a $500,000 construction loan, you'll most likely need to earn $150,000 a year and need to show proof of income of those levels over the past 3 or more years. If you can't, you most likely be declined that amount. The exact numbers may vary from lender to lender but most are in that ballpark. You also need a good credit score. If they feel a loan applicant is too high a risk, they are declining the applicant or countering with a lower amount loan offer. Lenders are in fact regulated. Client funding of project varies from the funding options of governments and schools to that of residential and smaller scale private entities to that of medium and large scale entities and their projects.
x-jla
Apr 5, 23 1:36 pm
having a well balanced stew cooking and when you think it’s almost done homeowner throws unnecessary ingredients into the pot.
ivanmillya
Apr 5, 23 2:09 pm
Aren't you a landscaper?
x-jla
Apr 7, 23 6:38 pm
I landscaped your moms bush.
drums please, Fab?
Apr 7, 23 7:21 pm
ohhhhhhh, SNAP!
JLC-1
Apr 5, 23 2:23 pm
Hey Jordin, what part of what you do is architecture?
Chad Miller
Apr 5, 23 2:50 pm
To be fair I think there are a few users here who don't do any architecture . . .
Almosthip
Apr 5, 23 4:11 pm
True I am but a lowly architectural technologist
Chad Miller
Apr 5, 23 5:03 pm
There are days when I don't do any architecture and I'm an architect. :(
whistler
Apr 5, 23 4:13 pm
I don't see problems only solutions! Well at least that's how I frame my role and approach to everything. Unfortunately I am pretty up beat guy with "a glass half full" perspective on life / work. I think it helps in our profession.
sameolddoctor
Apr 5, 23 9:18 pm
ALL the problems
Jay1122
Apr 7, 23 11:39 am
Low pay!!
Something random, I just saw a job post where the guy pays someone 1K monthly to work 40Hrs in exchange for mentorship. Literal WTF? You pay the employer to work in this field?
See the description from the post. "I'm looking for a licensed architect mentor in NYC to provide me with a full time remote internship in exchange for $1000 payment per month from my side. 0 out of pocket cost from the mentor side.
The payment will be paid monthly or semi-monthly to the architect mentor for his/her time mentoring me and teaching me. I will be helping the mentor with whatever architecture\al related tasks he/she gives me based on 40 hours per week work schedule. "
Yikes, I gots to pivot out of this line of work. Will be seeing a lot of this over the next couple of years. Project Architects at $15/hr is back on the menu, boys and girls.
Chad Miller
Apr 7, 23 12:15 pm
I'll mentor the guy. I'd use chatgpt to transcribe my ARE notes and simply explain to him what I'm doing each day. I'd have him create door schedules and proofread specs.
::end sarcasm::
monosierra
Apr 7, 23 12:33 pm
Reminds me of that product design turned "architect" guy who argued on Dezeen that interns should pay him for the opportunity to work in his "studio" because he has to spend time and effort teaching them. The man isn't even an architect.
t a z
Apr 7, 23 12:48 pm
Karim Rashid or Peter Marino?
monosierra
Apr 7, 23 5:07 pm
Rashid!
Non Sequitur
Apr 8, 23 7:28 am
Why is there not an option to flag job posts? Big green head...
Miyadaiku
Apr 12, 23 11:55 pm
A major difference from software design is probably going to be navigating codes and regulations.
Look up the International Building Code and its other companion volumes and see if you have to deal with anything like that in the software world.
The contracts we use are also probably not even comparable given the level of liability we are subject to. Take a look on the AIA website for sample contracts.
luvu
Apr 13, 23 12:22 am
you know it’s not actually International code … ! noone uses it outside the US of A / Sorry a bit cringe every time I saw this… carry on :)
Miyadaiku
Apr 13, 23 2:43 am
Haha, indeed. I also scratch my head every time I see the word "international" in there (NBC already taken?).
I would take a guess that it had something to do with NAFTA at the time of its inception in hopes all of North America would adopt it, thus broadening the scope of the construction market, but what do I know...I'm just an architect...practicing outside the US at that.
Chad Miller
Apr 13, 23 10:26 am
I thought parts of the IBC where used in Abu Dhabi and Mexico. I also thought that Canada and Mexico used to used the IBC.
I may be mistaken though.
JLC-1
Apr 13, 23 11:32 am
Egress and guardrail requirements don't exist in Mexico, at least not in any of the 8-10 airbnb's I've stayed. So airbnb also works on a local level I guess.
Chad Miller
Apr 13, 23 11:39 am
I've seen many buildings (residential, commercial, and government) in the US that don't follow the IBC for egress and guardrail requirements. The IBC states that if you're not changing a buildings use, repairing, or renovating it then you don't have to bring it up the current codes. It's up to the AHJ do decided how much 'wiggle room' a building can have in this regard.
Wood Guy
Apr 13, 23 12:07 pm
My extended family stayed at an AirBnB in Cancun last fall and found the lack of safety features to mostly be interesting. Until my MIL had a fall due to a lack of handrails, which with her blood thinner was a big issue. Fortunately we found that the local hospital was set up for American tourists, with a translater on premises even at midnight. Five months later and she's almost back to normal. I like building codes.
Chad Miller
Apr 13, 23 12:41 pm
In the US most AirBnB's are actually illegal and put a huge amount an liability on the homeowner that AirBnB doesn't have to share. If you run and AirBnB you should read the legal agreement you have with the company.
Non Sequitur
Apr 13, 23 4:03 pm
Chad, Canada has its own building code since 1941.
Chad Miller
Apr 13, 23 4:15 pm
Non - good to know! I wasn't sure. I remember the idea of the IBC was that everyone would use it but it never took off so just the USA, Abu Dhabi, and Columbia currently use it in some fashion.
Non Sequitur
Apr 13, 23 5:12 pm
Bastions of progress. Good crowd.
Chad Miller
Apr 13, 23 5:25 pm
'Murica =/= progress. :(
Miyadaiku
Apr 13, 23 8:28 pm
A certain superior IBC makes a killer root beer.
briancornwell
Apr 13, 23 5:37 pm
Budget for high performance.
JLC-1
Apr 14, 23 11:28 am
hippies, with a lot of money, but still hippies. Hate them.
Hello!
I've worked as a software architect for several years and have recently taken an interest in learning about the problems faced by those who professionally design physical architecture; I suspect that my own job is a poor imitation of the "real" thing!
Do you get to spend most of your time heads-down drafting designs? I'd imagine that this probably depends on the size of a firm and the type of clients that you take. How much of your bandwidth is occupied by things like project administration, client communication, etc?
My curiosity is extremely piqued, and I'd love to learn more about what you do :)
First, software architect is a terrible term the tech bro industry uses to make their roles sound sexier. Your job, respectfully, is not even the same sport.
Second, bandwidth, as you put it, is directed to what is most critical at that time and or what is currently on fire. For me, project & construction management can be a full-time gig for several days per week but I try to stop replying to normal emails around 2pm so that I can actually get shit done in the afternoons/evenings. Important clients get a pass but for most things, it can wait until the morning. Design and detailing gets done in the gaps between.
I had a contractor, pre covid, who asked who I could keep all this shit together since I was already reviewing my 5th site of the morning before most mortals have their 2nd cup of coffee. I told them there is nothing important enough that can't wait until tomorrow. This give me a window to do other things like design and drawing production instead of constantly putting out every fire that pops up.
I didn't realize the extent to which architects were involved with the management of the construction project itself. It makes perfect sense, and makes me wonder about the dynamic between you/your firm and the boots-on-the-ground project managers (presumably those working for the contractor(s) doing the construction itself).
I definitely relate on needing to put a hard stop to emails and Slack messages in order to get anything done. I plead the 5th RE tech bros trying to add sex appeal to their roles!
Looking for new employment and you have to sort through the software architect and systems architect positions. Than you see how much money they make compared to the positions you are looking at and you question all your life's decisions and how it got you to that moment.
That's so painfully true. I remember that during my job hunt in 2010/11 coming out of the 2008 recession. Not only was the pay better for systems architects, they were far far more abundant.
I came across a passage in a book on the VC industry that basically said that the software engineers and programmers write all the code that underpin modern civilization - from running power plants to the Revit on your desktop. They make the tools that keep other tools working. Thus they are paid a handsome amount so that the world wouldn't crash and burn. Some of them also mint money writing algorithms selling ads and trading massive amounts of money as well.
I agree that software underpins modern civilization, but do think that we're generally overpaid relative to the difficulty of the job. With recent AI advances, time will tell how long those of us writing code will continue to be blessed by such favorable supply/demand economics.
In my experience, much of that software underpinning society is really not that far off from crashing and burning haha.
"software engineers and programmers write all the code that underpin modern civilization" but they do it in buildings that we design. That's gotta be worth something right?
I wonder if an architect has ever been sued in a courtroom they designed ….
Or jailed in a prison they designed
I've been in a hospital and clinic I've designed.
chatgpt is far likelier to replace on of these "architects" than the other..
""software engineers and programmers write all the code that underpin modern civilization" but they do it in buildings that we design. That's gotta be worth something right?" - not necessarily considering most jobs can be done inside a room in a home. Most homes aren't designed by licensed architects. Most were designed by building designers or designer-contractor or previously in the pre-20th century, vernacular with no drawing or any formal design process. All you technically need is a relatively dry environment for electrical devices to operate in. A dry cave with electrical services could work, too. Just some things to point out so you don't over inflate your own ego.
rick, shush.
I'm curious too. Why do you ask about what it is we do? If you don't mind me saying, whenever a software engineer asks about what our typical day is, I'm feel a little queasy. Something inside me is setting off alarms, and I'm sure you will tell about a tool to make my life and work easier.
Please tell me I'm wrong.
Or they are hawking NFTs.
My wife's uncle is an architect with whom I've had some one-off conversations over the years, and I recently talked with an acquaintance who runs a local architecture firm about what his life is like. He spoke of heavy burnout and difficulty finding time to focus on the actual work, which are also things that are common in my industry, and I was curious to find out if this was a broadly shared perspective. One Google search later landed me here!
Admittedly, I was firmly unaware of the cadence with which software engineers sound to be pitching novel life-changing tools and NFTs to architects ;) I've usually been on the other side of the table: every family member or friend has their own idea for *the next big thing*, they just need someone to do the easy part of designing and building it!
i've been watching tv all day and for the historic record, a former president of the united states was just arrested. a problem i'm facing is that a criminal was able to corrupt the united states court system, from circuit court judges such as ralph erickson or steven grasz, all the way up to the supreme court and that made it harder for me to pay off student loans. we as voters need to do better.
lol
I seem to remember reading some guidelines about calling yourself an architect without being licensed. It was incorrect to call yourself an architect, with an architecture degree but no license, yet calling yourself a mortgage architect or sandwich architect were listed as permitted examples.
Was a chris-chitect among those permitted examples, or would I need a license to call myself that as well? lol
The AIA is powerless enough within the AEC industry, let alone outside it.
Sandwich architecture is no joke.
What you don't understand is that there are limits to enforcement of the architect title. What you were taught is an oversimplification but made so you would least likely get yourself in trouble because they just aren't comfortable in their ability to train students in the nuance. The reason why a person like a software architect can be used by a non-licensed person is because the public can reasonably assume a software architect service is not going to be producing designs of buildings to be built. A sandwich architect would not be designing buildings. Yet, when you work in an architect office or are designing buildings as a building designer, that becomes an issue. It's about not representing yourself as a licensed architect when you are not licensed.
What if you work in an architectural office and a sandwich shop?
What if you make habitable spaces out of sandwiches?
Edible architecture. I like it!
Chad, if I worked in an architect office and a sandwich shop. It's context that matters. I can freely say I am a software architect in context with software work. Yet, I can not so freely do so as a building designer or as an employee working for an architect. If I worked at a sandwhich shop, I can freely do so in the specific context.
Jovan, if you did that, you should be shot (with penicillin). It's only temporarily habitable but it'll get moldy.
Rick:
I figure it was a joke but the topic at hand is serious and requires staying serious about the matter. Legal matter is no joke and knowing when the architect title law is applicable and enforceable and when it is not, is something that should be taught properly but frankly, the profession doesn't have a damn clue because they were taught by those who either didn't have a clue or those who simply didn't care to teach it and disserviced the students and the profession by cutting too many corners in the process. I know people whine about search results and finding too many job postings they aren't even qualified for that pays better. So a lot of sour grapes issues.
the entire practice of architecture
The problems I face are having to argue about why my professional license and job are not equivalent to a tech bro who liked the word architect and started using it in their job title.
For real though, my problems are that I'm torn between a system where I need to make money working for clients who are almost exclusively quite wealthy, often executing projects that are to the detriment of the local community around me, while slowly realizing the ever-more unlikely feat of just designing quality housing for underserved communities and utilizing my license, knowledge, and experience for communal good.
I have a client who gets us to design their exs' houses. Yes plural.... Some sort of strange separation agreement. Oh you liked our previous house design... well, I'll buy you this 1960s one-story and get I'll pay these wankers to design a renovation for you.
Ew that sounds like drama I would not want to participate in.
First, architects, especially the licensed professions, have always had a penchent for providing services to those who makes more money than themselves because if they made less than you, they wouldn't afford to build any building.
Wrong. I will not elaborate.
I said penchent... perhaps the word tendency would be better. I was speaking of the profession (particarly the licensed architects and perhaps, engineers) on a collective level and general tendency to selecting clients that earns more money than oneself. Think about it. If they were making less than you, Jovan, it should be ringing an alarm. The chances are, you don't make enough money for lenders to lend you the money amount to build a million dollar or more project. Chances are, you wouldn't get lending for even half a million. Architects will tend to seek clients that has more money than themselves. Key words: Access to capital. If they don't, and make less than a single architect makes, good chances are they won't be able to secure the lending or capital to finance the project and ultimately, it would be a waste of time.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
perhaps the word "penchant" would be better, since it's a word.
Yes, I noticed the typo I made.
Jovan, I'm confident if clients earned less money than you, clients will have almost impossible chance of getting loans to build a house or other building. While they might be able to get lending for remodel work or a small addition or maybe an ADU. As a rule of thumb, it's going to be a bigger pain in the ass to get a client to pay you if your fees amounted to more than 20% of their annual income.... even more so if it is more than they make in a year. Otherwise, you're going to have to have a payment plan spanning decade or more duration. I don't provide building design services for people who don't have an income. I also don't take clients who has no capital. If the client makes more than me, its more promising they can pay. If they can't get the loan or pay out of pocket the entire project already in hand, that should be a warning sign to any professional.
You aren't a professional, and have no idea what you're talking about when you're trying to discuss fees, how clients pay, or how they organize in order to fund or develop projects.
A license doesn't really make a person a professional. There is much more to it then obtaining a license. You appear to completely miss my point. The architecture profession has always had a penchant of serving clients that earns more income than themselves. The reason is obvious. They still do. Even if you were designing tiny houses to house the homeless. The homeless is not your client. The ones you enter into contract with is the client. The client and the end-user occupant need not be the same. Frankly, most other professions and generally considered career occupations makes more income than architects. Part of the reason is architects are in a "service" business (consultant service). This has limited yield for labor hour. Do the math. People tend to not pay someone to do a service for them, more than they make, especially if they have to pay for that out of pocket. Much like an employer doesn't pay any employee than the income. Duh. That alone should make sense to you. A professional is engaged in business. If a client made less than you, yes you, wouldn't you be concerned about their ability to fulfill financial/contractual obligations? I would hope so especially if the project is a new custom designed house or building versus a minor remodel project. Those are sensible concerns. Have you ran any business, you would be consider those factors. I been in the business of building design and related consultant services for over 15 years. Reliable clients have money. I am not saying they be billionaire clients. Never said that but financial wealth is important with regards to financial feasibility. I don't need to know every aspect of my client's financial welfare but I would be in a reasonable need to know basis, to know if the client can realistically fund the project and not be blowing smoke up their ass about the project being feasible within their financial resources. There needs to be a candid and forthright dialogue on these matters with clients. That is what I have been referring to.
Most architects income is about the equivalent of school teachers to school administrators (school principals)... in that ballpark. To obtain a $500,000 construction loan, you'll most likely need to earn $150,000 a year and need to show proof of income of those levels over the past 3 or more years. If you can't, you most likely be declined that amount. The exact numbers may vary from lender to lender but most are in that ballpark. You also need a good credit score. If they feel a loan applicant is too high a risk, they are declining the applicant or countering with a lower amount loan offer. Lenders are in fact regulated. Client funding of project varies from the funding options of governments and schools to that of residential and smaller scale private entities to that of medium and large scale entities and their projects.
having a well balanced stew cooking and when you think it’s almost done homeowner throws unnecessary ingredients into the pot.
Aren't you a landscaper?
I landscaped your moms bush.
ohhhhhhh, SNAP!
Hey Jordin, what part of what you do is architecture?
To be fair I think there are a few users here who don't do any architecture . . .
True I am but a lowly architectural technologist
There are days when I don't do any architecture and I'm an architect. :(
I don't see problems only solutions! Well at least that's how I frame my role and approach to everything. Unfortunately I am pretty up beat guy with "a glass half full" perspective on life / work. I think it helps in our profession.
ALL the problems
Low pay!!
Something random, I just saw a job post where the guy pays someone 1K monthly to work 40Hrs in exchange for mentorship. Literal WTF? You pay the employer to work in this field?
See the description from the post. "I'm looking for a licensed architect mentor in NYC to provide me with a full time remote internship in exchange for $1000 payment per month from my side. 0 out of pocket cost from the mentor side.
The payment will be paid monthly or semi-monthly to the architect mentor for his/her time mentoring me and teaching me. I will be helping the mentor with whatever architecture\al related tasks he/she gives me based on 40 hours per week work schedule. "
https://archinect.com/jobs/ent...
Yikes, I gots to pivot out of this line of work. Will be seeing a lot of this over the next couple of years. Project Architects at $15/hr is back on the menu, boys and girls.
I'll mentor the guy. I'd use chatgpt to transcribe my ARE notes and simply explain to him what I'm doing each day. I'd have him create door schedules and proofread specs.
::end sarcasm::
Reminds me of that product design turned "architect" guy who argued on Dezeen that interns should pay him for the opportunity to work in his "studio" because he has to spend time and effort teaching them. The man isn't even an architect.
Karim Rashid or Peter Marino?
Rashid!
Why is there not an option to flag job posts? Big green head...
A major difference from software design is probably going to be navigating codes and regulations.
Look up the International Building Code and its other companion volumes and see if you have to deal with anything like that in the software world.
The contracts we use are also probably not even comparable given the level of liability we are subject to. Take a look on the AIA website for sample contracts.
you know it’s not actually International code … ! noone uses it outside the US of A / Sorry a bit cringe every time I saw this… carry on :)
Haha, indeed. I also scratch my head every time I see the word "international" in there (NBC already taken?). I would take a guess that it had something to do with NAFTA at the time of its inception in hopes all of North America would adopt it, thus broadening the scope of the construction market, but what do I know...I'm just an architect...practicing outside the US at that.
I thought parts of the IBC where used in Abu Dhabi and Mexico. I also thought that Canada and Mexico used to used the IBC.
I may be mistaken though.
Egress and guardrail requirements don't exist in Mexico, at least not in any of the 8-10 airbnb's I've stayed. So airbnb also works on a local level I guess.
I've seen many buildings (residential, commercial, and government) in the US that don't follow the IBC for egress and guardrail requirements. The IBC states that if you're not changing a buildings use, repairing, or renovating it then you don't have to bring it up the current codes. It's up to the AHJ do decided how much 'wiggle room' a building can have in this regard.
My extended family stayed at an AirBnB in Cancun last fall and found the lack of safety features to mostly be interesting. Until my MIL had a fall due to a lack of handrails, which with her blood thinner was a big issue. Fortunately we found that the local hospital was set up for American tourists, with a translater on premises even at midnight. Five months later and she's almost back to normal. I like building codes.
In the US most AirBnB's are actually illegal and put a huge amount an liability on the homeowner that AirBnB doesn't have to share. If you run and AirBnB you should read the legal agreement you have with the company.
Chad, Canada has its own building code since 1941.
Non - good to know! I wasn't sure. I remember the idea of the IBC was that everyone would use it but it never took off so just the USA, Abu Dhabi, and Columbia currently use it in some fashion.
Bastions of progress. Good crowd.
'Murica =/= progress. :(
A certain superior IBC makes a killer root beer.
Budget for high performance.
hippies, with a lot of money, but still hippies. Hate them.