absolutely a step in the right direction. should we do more? yes. does the system still need massive retooling? yes. but if a moderate like biden has moved this far, from propping up a predatory student loan system to beginning to dismantle it, i'm hopeful we'll get somewhere real on this.
This is huge: "Income-based repayment plans have long existed within the U.S. Department of Education. However, the Biden-Harris Administration is proposing a rule to create a new income-driven repayment plan that will substantially reduce future monthly payments for lower- and middle-income borrowers.
"The rule would [...] cover the borrower's unpaid monthly interest, so that unlike other existing income-driven repayment plans, no borrower's loan balance will grow as long as they make their monthly payments—even when that monthly payment is $0 because their income is low."
TED
Aug 24, 22 1:47 pm
In the UK they use graduate contribution tax which is 9% of salary(not loan) once you make over £26,575 until you pay it off. If not paid off in 30 years debt wiped out. Eighty-three per cent of students will never repay their debts. So if you make £50k / yr you would pay (£50k-£26575)*9%/12= £175 / month. ($59K / $206).
Everyday Architect
Aug 24, 22 1:31 pm
This would have wiped out my student debt had I not paid the rest of it back during the pandemic. That's ok. I'm glad this will help others even if I don't personally benefit from it.
SneakyPete
Aug 24, 22 1:36 pm
I chose to pocket the money instead of paying down the debt, since I have always included the monthly into my budget. Resulted in a nice chunk of change I used to make a big move in my life I otherwise could not have made. Someone told me once that paying off debt is the best move but only when that money isn't going to get you more appreciation than the loans interest rate. Or some such.
Everyday Architect
Aug 24, 22 1:45 pm
I contemplated halting payments entirely, but it wasn't all that much (a couple thousand I think) when they went into emergency forbearance so continuing the same monthly payment wasn't a hardship for me and my family. It also changed our debt to income ratio which helped when we bought a new house and moved. I don't know for sure, but it probably got us a slightly better interest rate which would mean significantly less paid overall on our mortgage.
RJ87
Aug 26, 22 9:42 am
My wife had student loans from getting her second degree. One of those situations where she didn't know much about it because her parents set it up (a conversation about teaching financial literacy for another day). We used the pause in payments to double down on paying the private loan because it had a higher interest rate. Nuked the private loan completely & when rumors started swirling about debt forgiveness being a possibility after Biden won we figured we'd take the wait & see approach as long as interest wasn't accruing. If interest started back up we had planned to just pay off the entire loan in one or two payments to be done with it. Waiting ended up saving us around 9k.
Edit: That said, I wouldn't be surprised if their are legal challenges ahead. Although standing will be an issue because it's the federal governments loans.
RJ87
Aug 26, 22 9:46 am
Personally, I think some things about it are strange. I wouldn't have provided debt forgiveness as I think their are better fiscal policies that would reach their target market better, but the problem with that is they don't have the votes to do anything through congress. I also think its crazy that you qualify for 10k relief with a household income of 250k. Even at somewhere around 175k in household income I think it's strange they gave her debt forgiveness, but hey, I'll take the money.
Everyday Architect
Aug 26, 22 3:59 pm
Adding this to the discussion as an interesting twist I wasn't considering until now. Apparently if you've made payments on your frozen loans during the pandemic you can ask your loan servicer for a refund and then that can increase the amount you're forgiven.
In my case where I continued and eventually paid my loans off, I might be able to get that money back and have the balance forgiven anyway. I'll be keeping my eye on it and double checking the details. I won't be calling my loan servicer just yet though.
SneakyPete
Aug 26, 22 4:34 pm
I hope that works out for you, E_A.
Everyday Architect
Aug 26, 22 5:15 pm
I looked up my account and I have almost $5k that I paid (I thought it was less) during the forbearance period that could potentially be refunded, then forgiven. Would be a nice addition to my kid's college savings 529 plan. That's where we put the child tax credit the gov't sent us during the pandemic. Seems even more appropriate given that money was initially "earmarked" for education anyway.
Chad Miller
Aug 24, 22 1:43 pm
I think this is a great thing that will help many people. I've already paid off my student loans but I would have qualified for the forgiveness program.
SneakyPete
Aug 24, 22 1:55 pm
I appreciate that you aren't one of the multitude of people bitching online that since they didn't get any help nobody should. Thank you.
Chad Miller
Aug 24, 22 2:07 pm
No thanks needed. It's best for the country and everyone in it. Just because I won't benefit from it isn't a reason to oppose the policy. Only a selfish, moronic, douche would act such a way.
square.
Aug 24, 22 2:15 pm
it's amazing how many douches there are.. it's like being mad the internet was invented after you went to school and wishing there was no internet because you didn't have access to it. apply this to any number of programs/areas of progress.
square.
Aug 24, 22 2:37 pm
it's also funny that the "it's not fair" crowd is the same crowd who lives by the mantra "life isn't fair"
Everyday Architect
Aug 24, 22 2:46 pm
"Just because I won't benefit from it [directly] isn't a reason to oppose the policy. Only a selfish, moronic, douche would act such a way."
Fixed it for you
Chad Miller
Aug 24, 22 2:49 pm
Good point EA. That is what I meant.
Everyday Architect
Aug 24, 22 2:57 pm
Your comment about it being the best for the country made me think of it. So many people are going to look at this as a negative because their tax dollars are paying for blah blah blah. The reality is this should be a net positive all around.
natematt
Aug 24, 22 2:01 pm
Thanks Joe!
Bench
Aug 24, 22 3:36 pm
From a foreigner ...
Is there going to be any incentive / regulation to address directly the incredibly high cost of school in the US, in tandem with the forgiveness? This is a necessary solution to address a very old problem, in the moment. But going to the source of the high debt ratio (again, in tandem with the relief) would seem like the most prudent thing to do, no?
square.
Aug 24, 22 3:44 pm
this requires legislative action (and a 60 vote threshold), which will never happen with the current infection circulating in the republican party.
Miyadaiku
Aug 25, 22 1:53 am
Long long ago there was a problem in America. The Prophecy foretold that a hero called The Next Generation would deal wit....*cough*....solve it. Everyone lived happily ever after. -the end-
drinks_at_avec
Aug 26, 22 1:58 am
So if you have grad school loads only but received a Pell Grant as an undergrad, you qualify for the full $20k of cancellation. And it's cancellation, not forgiveness and here's why:
Loans for undergraduates are capped; loans for graduate students are not. That is why graduate school is so much more expensive than undergraduate school - the schools simply can get away with price gouging so they do.
Tuition in general has been going up at five times the rate of inflation since the 70's. Biden's plan does not address these issues at all.
Biden's plan just makes the lender's whole. The borrowers will be responsible for paying income taxes on the amount their loans are reduced. I imaging collecting that income tax will be as difficult as it was collecting on the defaulted loan payments. Maybe some work ahead for Biden's new 87,000 IRS agents.
Everyday Architect
Aug 26, 22 7:53 am
Never let facts get in the way of conservative ‘vibes’ and owning libs … right Volunteer?
“As a general rule, a discharge of indebtedness counts as income and is taxable, as my colleague Will McBride explains. Under § 9675 of the American Rescue Plan Act (ARPA), however, the forgiveness of student loan debt between 2021 and 2025 does not count toward federal taxable income.”
I’ll however agree with you that the cost of education should be less and I look forward to your support of funding education through appropriate taxation.
square.
Aug 26, 22 9:47 am
the conservative movement these days: full of grievances, lacking any ideas, thoughts, or contributions whatsoever.
RJ87
Aug 26, 22 9:53 am
Lately I've been pretty apathetic about both sides of the aisle. Was just talking with my dad the other day about how i'm fully prepared to be wholly disappointed with presidential options in 2 years.
square.
Aug 26, 22 10:01 am
definitely.. but some major legislation has gone through over the past 2 years that will measurably impact people's live for the better, no thanks to republicans (medicare negotiations, climate tax provision, student loan relief etc etc). i was incredibly despondent until the climate provisions passed recently, which will do a lot to reduce emissions over the next 20 years.
none of these are perfect, but only one party has shown any ability whatsoever to govern with any level of competence.
RJ87
Aug 26, 22 11:23 am
To each their own, I tend to focus more on fiscal policy than social / environmental. I tend to think social issues will change on their own as demographics change.
square.
Aug 26, 22 11:28 am
everything i mentioned IS fiscal policy-i don't buy the argument that environmental policy isn't directly intertwined with economic policy (most of these are tax credits, after all), and same for "social" if that's what you're labeling things like capping insulin costs for seniors and allowing the government to directly negotiation with drug companies.
disagree with these policies, but it's damn near impossible to claim that "both sides" are operating on the same level in anyway you want to measure government performance.
i don't like biden and most of the dem party, but i'm a realist and can recognize that capping drug costs for the elderly is great policy, while giving tax cuts to the rich is bad policy.
SneakyPete
Aug 26, 22 11:51 am
"I tend to think social issues will change on their own as demographics change."
*SCOTUSing intensifies*
Please, tell me more about this both sidesism and how it helps anyone anywhere.
Everyday Architect
Aug 26, 22 1:05 pm
Was it viewed as fiscal or social policy when then Gov. Reagan was defunding education and encouraging a system where people would need to take out loans to pay for their own education, all so he could combat the social issues (commies and Vietnam War protesters) he was scared of at the time? I'll give you a hint: https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/archives/speech/january-17-1967-statement-governor-ronald-reagan-tuition
P.s. Aren't we all pretty disappointed in presidential options every 4 years.
SneakyPete
Aug 26, 22 2:03 pm
Is there no problem we cannot find as a link on Reagan's ghost's Jacob Marley-esque chain?
Everyday Architect
Aug 26, 22 2:18 pm
Probably, but they might have all happened before his time.
RJ87
Aug 26, 22 2:26 pm
Square: Truthfully, I just don't worry about the environment. I recycle, I try not to be wasteful, it's realistically going to be a problem down the line etc. but I don't base my vote on it. Reasonably priced medicine costs are an important social & fiscal issue. I never said they're mutually exclusive, I just care more about one than the other.
Pete: As a general rule of thumb I think as the older generations dies out things get a bit more liberal socially, that's what I was referring to. It's a gradual shift, but for the most part a constant one.
EA: In all likelihood it was piss poor management of both. Agreed on the P.S., but I feel like I'm extra disappointed by the lack of civility. Even if I disagreed policy wise I could go for another Obama / McCain election right about now.
RJ87
Aug 26, 22 2:34 pm
Call it both side-ism if you want, but the worlds not black & white it's a perpetually complex grey. There are some good idea's on both sides & there are bad ideas / people on both sides I wish would fade into the great void never to be heard from again.
proto
Aug 26, 22 2:41 pm
"Both sides" ignores the difference in scale. Citing that one time vs citing a stated political strategy doesn't equalize the two conditions.
SneakyPete
Aug 26, 22 3:36 pm
Your recycling is made irrelevant by corporations' waste. Without policy you base your vote on there will be no improvement. Recycling is a con perpetuated by industry to leverage your guilt and cause you to end up where you currently are: ignorant and apathetic to their pollution.
proto
Aug 26, 22 4:38 pm
The "ROI" for education is being educated, not a salary. This idea that there should only be education for job training is garbage. That does not obviate the problem with cost of education, tho.
SneakyPete
Aug 26, 22 5:50 pm
Can you please, for once, stick to the topic at hand instead of indulging your id and using examples that sidetrack the conversation?
proto
Aug 26, 22 5:50 pm
Institutions of learning exist because of a tested history of research gives them credibility. That credibility is their value.
Podcasts exist as a communication medium. Nothing about platforms for discussing certifies the information provided there. In fact, that is often the point: anyone can have a public voice, no research or credibility needed. They have their place but not necessarily as reliable sources of credible learning.
proto
Aug 26, 22 8:41 pm
[my thumbs down just means i do not agree. I’m not going to a argue with your opinions]
SneakyPete
Aug 27, 22 12:44 am
All people are bad, so let's kill everyone.
b3tadine[sutures]
Aug 27, 22 2:19 am
Colleges and Universities, don't guarantee student loans.
b3tadine[sutures]
Aug 27, 22 2:22 am
Employers, as the ones benefitting from from your education, should be the ones paying for your loans. Our better yet; college should be free.
SneakyPete
Aug 27, 22 11:28 am
Maybe instead of using a broad brush to avoid telling everyone you don't have the interest or ability to make tough choices, you spend the intellectual capital to discern the reality: that the rest of your life will be spent within the current system and, while you can work to change it, throwing up your hands and saying "THEY'RE ALL BAD!" simply serves to keep the Republicans in power because they have no qualms about using idiots like you to cement their power.
b3tadine[sutures]
Aug 27, 22 5:13 pm
Remarkable.
b3tadine[sutures]
Aug 27, 22 5:37 pm
Wow. Is this a platform.
Volunteer
Aug 28, 22 8:35 am
One is six families is having difficulties this month in paying their utility bills. It will get much worse this winter. It stands to reason they are also having difficulty in feeding their children. Why should they have additional debt piled on their shoulders because someone wanted to go to college and major in a field of study that is almost guaranteed not to pay well or have decent working conditions?
Many (most?) fields of study are valuable from a knowledge point of view but are best pursued after retirement from a related career that will support yourself and family.
SneakyPete
Aug 28, 22 10:47 am
But you were good with trump's tax breaks, right? Because they were for the hard working rich, right?
b3tadine[sutures]
Aug 28, 22 12:59 pm
The US Military, over the next 10 years, will get 10 trillion dollars from these same families that you're soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo concerned about, yet not a peep.
zonker
Aug 28, 22 4:43 pm
I went to a state school and paid as I went out of savings. The construction workers on our projects resent having to pay for someone else's architecture education, especially when they need to school the architects after they graduated. They aren't happy about it. They don't know that I paid full fare at time of departure - but I better have the right answers when I draw up a detail
SneakyPete
Aug 28, 22 10:15 pm
My heart bleeds for those poor contractors. If only they weren't so navel gazing.
b3tadine[sutures]
Aug 29, 22 6:54 am
Bullshit. I've yet to meet a contractor call me out on anything. I spend nearly all of my time calling out contractors inability to even do the basics. Read.
Chad Miller
Aug 29, 22 10:45 am
zonker - I'll take things that didn't happen for $500 Alex.
archinine
Aug 28, 22 6:50 pm
If you’re upset about student loan forgiveness just wait til you hear about corporate welfare’s impact on inflation since the 80’s! Bad bad bad on those pesky students wanting to learn for free/ a reasonable price. That money could be going to Amazon Apple Google to reduce their corporate taxes from 1% to 0!
alrik54
Aug 29, 22 12:24 pm
The best idea is not to take those student loans from what I've heard, there are a lot of hooks unfortunately
Chad Miller
Aug 29, 22 12:27 pm
Kind of hard not to take out student loans when a degree costs around $50K. There aren't that many scholarships and not everyone's parents are wealthy.
Chad Miller
Aug 29, 22 12:55 pm
That's very, very rare. Only 3% of all US business offer some type of tuition reimbursement for higher education. Most cap the reimbursement at $5K a year and the classes must be related to the business.
proto
Aug 29, 22 1:06 pm
"not everyone's parents are wealthy."
I'd hazard that MOST are not (in context of affording university as cash). The 4yr msrp of many colleges (out-of-state state unis & privates) add up to $250-300k. Even families that are comfortable & can afford their given lifestyles don't have $250k lying around in cash; or don't have the financial bandwidth to just mortgage their entirety of their wealth (whatever that is) for a 4yr institution...
Chad Miller
Aug 29, 22 1:39 pm
We would and we could. Unfortunately 'free' education and healthcare are the only real recruiting tools the US armed forces have. Those will never be given away for free to every citizen.
My opinion is that the only way we're going to get reduced cost or free higher education for every citizen is if the government:
1. Capped tuition
2. Regulated proffits for schools
3. Regulated salaries for school admins.
For some people any government regulation is 'evil socialism' though so it won't happen.
proto
Aug 29, 22 1:44 pm
Ukraine would disagree, or even Taiwan. [Yeah, that's extreme, but there are reasons to be involved in the world, militarily & diplomatically. The idea that removing ourselves everywhere would create less conflict is at odds with reality. Stability is often thanks to a bunch of countries agreeing to not invade each other, but the military outreach ensures those agreements.]
SneakyPete
Aug 29, 22 1:58 pm
Service guarantees citizenship.
b3tadine[sutures]
Aug 29, 22 2:40 pm
Kill Eat me All Get A PhD
Chad Miller
Aug 29, 22 2:56 pm
I dunno. Members of the US military already get a living wage, healthcare, housing assistance, and a pension. Why should they also get free higher education?
If this pisses you off but you're against partial student loan forgiveness for non military then you're a hypocrite.
proto
Aug 29, 22 3:59 pm
not to mention a 20yr job arc to full retirement
Chad Miller
Aug 29, 22 4:00 pm
To be fair they could get shot at a lot during those 20 years. Then again they chose to go into the military so . . .
proto
Aug 29, 22 4:57 pm
No question re: being shot at...that's why they get the bennies
b3tadine[sutures]
Aug 29, 22 6:57 pm
I'd argue that it's in our best interest to provide an education in order that they don't come back and kill everyone here.
Chad Miller
Aug 30, 22 9:55 am
I don't think that's how it works bta. Also less than 30% of the military use the GI bill to get a higher education. Regardless the US taxpayers and service members still put money into the fund. Each service member is required to put around $2K total into the GI Bill fund from their first 18-20 paychecks. Each US taxpayers on average pay around $90 a year of their taxes into the GI Bill fund. If the GI Bill fund isn't used up each year (it never is) then the military can use the funds for whatever they want.
SneakyPete
Aug 30, 22 10:03 am
How convenient.
Chad Miller
Aug 30, 22 10:24 am
Isn't it. Yet people are OK with it because we must respect our military without question.
Chad Miller
Aug 30, 22 2:41 pm
Also vice versa.
Jason Eltern
Sep 1, 22 8:07 pm
The U.S. Military is the only reason why I am not 2 foot shorter and a cooking rat over a dumpster fire. Rag on the institution and feel smart about it all you want, but keep it in mind that the military guaranteed a future worth living to every single South Korean (50+ millions). It seems like it will be the same case for Taiwan. If the U.S. did not occupy Japan, the Soviets would have, and that’s 100+ million people’s future down the toilet.
Maybe on net, the U.S. Military still has done more bad than good in your opinion, but for hundreds of millions around the world like me, it is the main institution that allowed me to have a life worth living.
b3tadine[sutures]
Sep 1, 22 9:42 pm
Yeah, no. You know why? Because we unfortunately can't prove the counterfactual. What if the US never intervened in Korea, and what if the US never entered a Cold War with the USSR.
SneakyPete
Sep 2, 22 12:23 am
Yeah, there's a lot of assumptions there.
Jason Eltern
Sep 2, 22 7:17 am
Yep there is. Genuine question: is there a country that commies touched that didn't get fucked up for at least 50 years?
b3tadine[sutures]
Sep 2, 22 7:40 am
I'm beginning to like this question. I'll go with Cuba. And you might talk about Cuba is stuck in the 1950's, and I'll say sure, American Imperialism, an illegal blockade, and constant CIA bullshit.
Chad Miller
Sep 8, 22 11:35 am
Jason Young Kim wrote:
"The U.S. Military is the only reason why I am not 2 foot shorter and a cooking rat over a dumpster fire. Rag on the institution and feel smart about it all you want . . ."
No one is raging on the military.
I'm upset that the main reason the US doesn't have free or subsides healthcare and higher education is that those are the two major incentives used to get US citizens to join the military.
At most we're 'ragging' on the US government who deprives it's citizens of healthcare and an education so it can get people to volunteer for the military.
Jason Young Kim wrote:
". . . but keep it in mind that the military guaranteed a future worth living to every single South Korean (50+ millions). "
There was a draft for the Korean war. About 80% didn't choose so serve. FYI.
kjell23
Aug 30, 22 1:53 pm
In my opinion, it is a good idea to write off these student debts, it would be good for students
BabbleBeautiful
Aug 31, 22 8:34 pm
Responding to OP:
What I'm more interested in is the 5% income-based repayment plan because since the get-go, almost 10 years now, I've been paying with this plan, but the loan amount has increased since income-based repayment doesn't cover all the interest. I'm in that boat.
So, in essence, the $10/20k I receive is just covering the interest that has accumulated over time.
It wasn't till much later that I realized this was happening and when I called the Feds to ask what's going on they only responded with, "Don't worry, in about 11 years it'll all be forgiven." Referring to the 25-year forgiveness program. [Cringe-worthy].
I haven't found the literature yet, but I do hope this tidbit is resolved.
axonapoplectic
Sep 2, 22 12:21 pm
I had a pell grant in undergrad and am just barely under the maximum salary requirement.
I had been working on paying off my loans during the pandemic, but if I could get the full 20k it would effectively erase the remainder of my student loans.
SneakyPete
Sep 2, 22 1:33 pm
Unfortunately the GOP is working hard to make sure you stay in debt as long as possible.
shellarchitect
Sep 8, 22 11:23 am
I’ve paid off just under 115k in loans, like a sucker!
b3tadine[sutures]
Sep 8, 22 1:53 pm
Which part? The taking of $115k, or the paying it off?
ssmall
Oct 25, 22 4:42 pm
this student loan forgivness has pushed me closer to jumping off a cliff! I cant take this life anymore...when Biden originally announced the program, i spend several hours researching to make sure that my loans qualified..i have quite a few loans totaling $17,000 and all of them are FFEL STAFFORD subsidized loans that i took from my university i also had one pell grant. everywhere i read on line said that these loans qualified for forgiveness as they were federally backed so i was really happy and eagerly waiting for the first week in October to roll around. Little did i know and conveniently my loan holder NELNET had my loans pckages as commercial loans in their system. And eventho i called several
Times to get a refund for what i paid during coving and to checkon the status, not one of their wmployees told me that my loans were converted to commercial until a few nights ago when someone finally was able to tell me that my request for a refund was denied. And also that i dont qualify for forgiveness annnnd that there was a deadline on September 29th to consolidate any loans for forgiveness..but why the hell would i care to consolidate before when all my loans were originally stafford loans to begin with.
So far, no one has been able to tell me when my loans were converted to commercial and why, all they can say is that, i dont qualify for any forgiveness and the deadline is already passed.. (middle fingers up to the world)
Chad Miller
Oct 25, 22 5:44 pm
It sucks. Blame the republicans. Good Luck.
b3tadine[sutures]
Oct 25, 22 8:35 pm
If these are private loans, and not federally backed, file for bankruptcy.
Chad Miller
Oct 26, 22 10:19 am
Over $17K? WTF?!?
ssmall
Oct 25, 22 10:14 pm
Its funny, bankruptcy wont get rid of them yet they are “commercial loans” ..Apparently they were a “special” type of federal loan that got discontinued in 2010.
If i knew they were not actual federal loans i would have consolidated way before September 29th. But every website i visited said that that FFEL stafford loans were federal loans and should have qualified. So basically i got screwed. Not to mention i am not eligible for the refund of what i paid last year that i could so desperately use.
Chad Miller
Oct 26, 22 10:21 am
Sorry to hear this. A good learning experience to understand any loan you take out.
haruki
Oct 26, 22 12:31 pm
ssmall if your congressional representative isn't a republican you might get some help sorting this out for you by reaching out to their office. It sounds like you were misled.
Chad Miller
Oct 27, 22 4:19 pm
Bullshit. Well unless the Republicans take over.
Chad Miller
Oct 27, 22 5:36 pm
I think he's doing a decent job. Better than Trump. We'll see in a month what happens with the student loan forgiveness. It all depends on what the Republicans do.
natematt
Oct 28, 22 12:22 pm
I am sure we can rely on them to act in our best interests...
Chad Miller
Oct 28, 22 12:53 pm
Most dems and rep - probably. The stop the steal republicans - no way.
SneakyPete
Nov 4, 22 11:01 am
Most republicans on the ballot are stop the steal morons.
bennyc
Nov 3, 22 10:06 am
I think architecture firms should pay architecture student debt, with all the unpaid overtime of its interns and employees. Win Win.
zonker
Nov 3, 22 11:31 pm
The repubs will block it when they take back both houses and that will be that. I'm glad I paid as I went, took it out of savings(went to a state school with low tuition back in the mid 0's. Graduated clear and free - to only go broke when laid off in 08' - if I had a student debt then, I would have to have filed for bankruptcy
SneakyPete
Nov 4, 22 12:15 am
Student debt is not discharged by bankruptcy.
Chad Miller
Nov 4, 22 11:28 am
zonker - when did you go to school? I ask because you seem to know very little about student loans and cost of education.
natematt
Nov 4, 22 1:15 pm
When I went to school in the late 0s, there were 3 schools in my state with undergrad architecture programs, all at about 25k a year for just tuition, which wasn’t going to get better going anywhere I looked out of state…. Minimum wage was less than 8 dollars in my state…
I occasionally wonder how many architecture schools there are in the US that you could actually work your way though. Without scholarships, or an education, presuming you could reasonably work a half time job and still do alright in school….
Where did you go Zonker?
zonker
Nov 4, 22 3:56 pm
Cal Berkeley
natematt
Nov 4, 22 6:36 pm
That makes sense. I was going to point out that about the only school I knew of that I could have seen someone work their way though was CPP.... Because it's the cheapest school I know and the minimum wage in the state is about the highest hahaha... of course that's only true if you have in-state residency...
square.
Nov 9, 22 11:25 am
1) not how government works 2) this didn't age well
zonker
Nov 4, 22 11:24 pm
Chad, when? 2002 > 2007
Chad Miller
Nov 6, 22 3:51 pm
What type of job did you have and how much savings did you you have? Did you have any scholarships? I ask because for that time period tuition plus fees for a 15 credits a semester was around $14K a year.
zonker
Nov 6, 22 9:14 pm
I worked for a video game company as an environment designer - I was making 120
zonker
Nov 6, 22 9:14 pm
I worked for a video game company as an environment designer - I was making 120
zonker
Nov 6, 22 9:14 pm
I worked for a video game company as an environment designer - I was making 120
zonker
Nov 6, 22 9:22 pm
In video games I was well paid and used my bonus to pay 1/2 my years tuition and the rest came out of savings, a fidelity account where I did well for myself on stocks - architecture is a second career for me and I spent years in preparation and savings to pull it off - a smart investment
natematt
Nov 6, 22 10:07 pm
Not sure why chad is digging so hard. Sounds like you had a pretty solid and very atypical setup. You never suggested that high school students should be able to do what you did though, only what you did and that you were happy you did... Glad to hear things worked out for you. Curious why you switched from that job though?
zonker
Nov 6, 22 10:23 pm
When one does an atypical career trajectory like I did, there is a lot of skeptical people - and consequently, I've had to work twice as hard to prove myself, and still do after 15 years. Even my PMs where I work are skeptical - It's the way it is. Anyway, the reason I changed careers from a Maya 3D video game designer had to do with the fact that what were were doing at the time in video games could be used for designing actual buildings - this was 2001, and we were designing cities with Maya and Sketchup. I was transitioning the technology into architecture. around the same time. TU Delft was doing similar work and a book called the "gameification of architecture" was written
Chad Miller
Nov 9, 22 10:22 am
I'm digging hard because zonker never claimed anything about his situation and wanted to know how he / she did it.
I had assumptions that zonker was a older than average student who had a well paying job before going into college for architecture. I simply wanted to know more.
zonker
Nov 6, 22 10:59 pm
High school students should do this approach - currently I'm designing a school in san Francisco, called PolyMath for City College SF- I started with the curriculum as a design driver - Math and programming classes with art and design classes to teach the students to visually integrate math and design - the same way I leaned math and design - and music - Jazz of architecture and architecture of jazz -
Chad Miller
Nov 9, 22 11:49 am
We've done similar things with our local school district. The district is moving to STEAM so we commonly make the buildings a teaching tool. Each space expresses STEAM concepts. Exposed structure with applied vector loads. Providing internal views to rooftop MEP equipment with explanations of what does what. Incorporating the mathematical proportion formulas expressed graphically. The use of binary and coding language as fenestration patterns that have hidden messages. We try to create these 'hidden in plane sight' type references throughout the buildings. In one school we placed "what did you do to get here" in a binary pattern in the perforated ceiling material above the principal's desk.
zonker
Nov 9, 22 12:09 pm
Correct, over 40 at the time - on a well a paying video game job, I was able to sock away cash for my “dream shot” in architecture - still working in arch and no plans to retire anytime soon either - a rigorous physical fitness and diet plan stave off the ravages of “old age and treachery”
Chad Miller
Nov 9, 22 12:49 pm
That's what I thought. I'm glad that you realize the unique situation you were in and didn't have the 'I did it so why don't you' attitude.
Volunteer
Nov 11, 22 11:27 am
A federal judge in Texas just ruled Biden's debt forgiveness plan to be illegal. I suppose the Department of Education will appeal to the Supremes, but the appeal is unlikely to prevail or even be taken up by the Court.
SneakyPete
Nov 11, 22 11:42 am
Electing Trump is still paying dividends for the folks who think power is just a fun game and the populace merely pawns, innit?
SneakyPete
Nov 11, 22 11:42 am
How's that red wave going? More like a pink mist, yeah?
curtkram
Nov 11, 22 1:39 pm
isn't a federal judge in texas under jurisdiction of the president? can he be removed from his seat for
hearing frivolous, politically motivated cases?
SneakyPete
Nov 11, 22 4:11 pm
Current tradition requires impeachment, seems it's debatable, but not likely to be challenged by Biden, who keeps the status quo when possible, for good or ill.
OneLostArchitect
Nov 17, 22 1:26 pm
Biden somewhere: "Thanks for the votes suckers!"
Chad Miller
Nov 17, 22 1:43 pm
More like - Republicans: "That will show those socialist bastards."
Nam Henderson
Jan 11, 23 9:54 pm
Missed this before. I managed to get the standard 20k application submitted as well as a TEPLSF application submitted just under the wire. Haven't heard anything back yet about either, though as I understand it even if the 20k wipeout gets killed via lwsuits the TEPLSF should still stand...?
esaisarch3
Jan 12, 23 10:46 am
I think it's a good idea to write off student loans, but that's just my opinion
allnighterz
Jan 15, 23 1:48 am
has anyone here been successful with their loan forgiveness?
Nam Henderson
Feb 19, 23 8:28 pm
No updates for me yet, but as I understand it the pending/ongoing litigation means it definitely won't be "immediate"...
ill_will
Feb 20, 23 10:42 am
Bummer
proto
Feb 20, 23 11:14 am
I have a neighbor who got hers to her great surprise
Volunteer
Feb 28, 23 3:18 pm
Which states do not require any college all to eventually become licensed in architecture?
Chad Miller
Feb 28, 23 3:25 pm
Look here. It's not many. I can think of only SD. There may be more.
Whoops - looks like SD changed. Thirteen states (including Guam and Washington DC) don't require an accredited degree to become an architect. Seven of those states I'm certain require a college degree to pursue an alternate path to licensure. I'm not certain about the other six.
Volunteer
Feb 28, 23 6:34 pm
Thanks for looking it up. Depending on the type of architecture the student wants to pursue, maybe not going to school at all is an option? Getting an entry level position as a draftsman might be difficult but working for several years at a modest wage might be more valuable financially than throwing really heavy tuition toward these schools. Could the entry-level-want-to-be-an architect become as as educated by actually working in the field as opposed to attending school? If the would-be architect already has an undergraduate degree in the fine arts or a related engineering field attending architecture school becomes more problematic.
Nam Henderson
Mar 6, 23 10:08 pm
I got a promising letter in mail from MOHELA which seems to indicate that all the qualifying payments I submitted were accepted and that I have no remaining payments left. However, the website seems to indicate something else...and when I tried calling I waited on hold for over 30 mins before just hanging up!
haruki
Jun 8, 23 12:28 pm
Has anyone seen their loans forgiven via the income-driven repayment account adjustment forgiveness program yet? Mohela and Federal Student Aid have been saying on their websites that it is supposed to happen this spring. It hasn't happened for me yet but gosh it sure will be nice when it does.
Nam Henderson
Jun 18, 23 10:03 pm
I actually did get mine recently/finally though it was like 6 months of a black hole...
b3tadine[sutures]
Aug 22, 23 4:33 am
Um...did anyone get this in the mail?
I'm a little afraid, and cautiously optimistic.
archanonymous
Aug 22, 23 8:58 am
Damn bro, u r old.
archanonymous
Aug 22, 23 9:00 am
I didn't get that but it's my same servicer. Ever hopeful.
Non Sequitur
Aug 22, 23 9:01 am
stlil paying tuition loans 20-25y out? Damn....
b3tadine[sutures]
Aug 22, 23 9:36 am
Truth be told, I was in college at 13.
'Merican stubent lobn deebt.
Non Sequitur
Aug 22, 23 9:41 am
My gov issued loans were set to auto repay over 14y after 1 year post grad and they even cut the balance by 50% just because I clicked on a form. Then again, it's fake communist monies and the total was likely less than one semester of flying-eagle-freedum tuition... so it does not compare.
curtkram
Aug 22, 23 9:52 am
it looks like you have to sign up for income-based repayment, and forgiveness happens 25 years after you start paying if you have a grad degree. does that sound right? i don't know much about the program, but it looks helpful
b3tadine[sutures]
Aug 26, 23 5:46 pm
I've been checking every day this week. So far, it's still real.
haruki
Aug 27, 23 1:08 pm
b3tadine[sutures] it says that your forgiveness is effective as of 8/31/16. Does that mean you will be getting a refund for the payments you made after 8/31/16?
b3tadine[sutures]
Sep 16, 23 7:14 pm
Haruki, yes it does apparently.
haruki
Sep 19, 23 1:22 pm
That is fantastic. Mazal tov!
BabbleBeautiful
Aug 22, 23 4:47 pm
curtkram: Correct. 25 years for grad loans with good standing. 20 years for undergrad.
BulgarBlogger
Sep 19, 23 5:05 pm
If one was really smart and talented, expensive universities would cover 100% of the cost of education if they were unable to pay.
The rich pay for themselves.
Its the people who are not the smartest and not the most talented who are stupid enough to over-pay for a degree that they can't afford to pay back.
Chad Miller
Sep 19, 23 5:27 pm
That first part is pure BS.
BulgarBlogger
Sep 19, 23 5:39 pm
Really? How so? I have never heard of someone who comes from a poor family but is super smart and talented (according to the institution's standards) NOT getting a full ride. Never.
b3tadine[sutures]
Sep 19, 23 5:40 pm
Wow, you really are simple cunt. The rich are stealing from the poor to buy off their education, or busy blowing the admission's officers. I'm going to guess you are doing the latter.
Chad Miller
Sep 19, 23 6:40 pm
BB - yes I've heard of it and personally seen it myself many times. Heck, you could even be middle to lower middle class and not get a full ride. Now please be quiet you insufferable little punter.
Wood Guy
Sep 20, 23 9:54 am
I was offered a free ride at my state university, thanks to grants, scholarships and financial aid. But I would have had to study engineering, as they didn't have an architecture school at the time. Instead I went to at the time the most expensive private university in the US so I could study architecture. I ended up getting a degree in engineering there instead, with about half of it paid by grants and scholarships. So that kind of half-supports BB's claims, but not fully--if I was smart enough and poor enough to get a full ride at my state university, why wasn't it enough for the expensive private school?
(And yes, as an adult I have frequently regretted my decisions but my parents left the decisions up to me.)
BulgarBlogger
Sep 20, 23 11:50 am
Because someone else was
BulgarBlogger
Sep 20, 23 11:50 am
Because someone else was
BulgarBlogger
Sep 20, 23 11:51 am
They didn’t want you badly enough
Chad Miller
Sep 20, 23 12:06 pm
BB - your comment to WG seem to contradict your previous assertion that all the smart and talented poor people get full ride scholarships at expensive universities.
You're either really bad at trolling or really uninformed about the amount and types of scholarships out there.
Will the Student loan debt plan make a difference to anyone?
It’s a start!
Care to source where you got this info from?
from POTUS twitter, all media outlets are reporting it now
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/0...
Cheers.
Thanks!
absolutely a step in the right direction. should we do more? yes. does the system still need massive retooling? yes. but if a moderate like biden has moved this far, from propping up a predatory student loan system to beginning to dismantle it, i'm hopeful we'll get somewhere real on this.
Agree!
https://studentaid.gov/debt-re...
Thanks for the link @every
This is huge: "Income-based repayment plans have long existed within the U.S. Department of Education. However, the Biden-Harris Administration is proposing a rule to create a new income-driven repayment plan that will substantially reduce future monthly payments for lower- and middle-income borrowers.
"The rule would [...] cover the borrower's unpaid monthly interest, so that unlike other existing income-driven repayment plans, no borrower's loan balance will grow as long as they make their monthly payments—even when that monthly payment is $0 because their income is low."
In the UK they use graduate contribution tax which is 9% of salary(not loan) once you make over £26,575 until you pay it off. If not paid off in 30 years debt wiped out. Eighty-three per cent of students will never repay their debts. So if you make £50k / yr you would pay (£50k-£26575)*9%/12= £175 / month. ($59K / $206).
This would have wiped out my student debt had I not paid the rest of it back during the pandemic. That's ok. I'm glad this will help others even if I don't personally benefit from it.
I chose to pocket the money instead of paying down the debt, since I have always included the monthly into my budget. Resulted in a nice chunk of change I used to make a big move in my life I otherwise could not have made. Someone told me once that paying off debt is the best move but only when that money isn't going to get you more appreciation than the loans interest rate. Or some such.
I contemplated halting payments entirely, but it wasn't all that much (a couple thousand I think) when they went into emergency forbearance so continuing the same monthly payment wasn't a hardship for me and my family. It also changed our debt to income ratio which helped when we bought a new house and moved. I don't know for sure, but it probably got us a slightly better interest rate which would mean significantly less paid overall on our mortgage.
My wife had student loans from getting her second degree. One of those situations where she didn't know much about it because her parents set it up (a conversation about teaching financial literacy for another day). We used the pause in payments to double down on paying the private loan because it had a higher interest rate. Nuked the private loan completely & when rumors started swirling about debt forgiveness being a possibility after Biden won we figured we'd take the wait & see approach as long as interest wasn't accruing. If interest started back up we had planned to just pay off the entire loan in one or two payments to be done with it. Waiting ended up saving us around 9k.
Edit: That said, I wouldn't be surprised if their are legal challenges ahead. Although standing will be an issue because it's the federal governments loans.
Personally, I think some things about it are strange. I wouldn't have provided debt forgiveness as I think their are better fiscal policies that would reach their target market better, but the problem with that is they don't have the votes to do anything through congress. I also think its crazy that you qualify for 10k relief with a household income of 250k. Even at somewhere around 175k in household income I think it's strange they gave her debt forgiveness, but hey, I'll take the money.
Adding this to the discussion as an interesting twist I wasn't considering until now. Apparently if you've made payments on your frozen loans during the pandemic you can ask your loan servicer for a refund and then that can increase the amount you're forgiven.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/25/how-to-get-a-student-loan-refund-and-boost-forgiveness-eligibility.html
In my case where I continued and eventually paid my loans off, I might be able to get that money back and have the balance forgiven anyway. I'll be keeping my eye on it and double checking the details. I won't be calling my loan servicer just yet though.
I hope that works out for you, E_A.
I looked up my account and I have almost $5k that I paid (I thought it was less) during the forbearance period that could potentially be refunded, then forgiven. Would be a nice addition to my kid's college savings 529 plan. That's where we put the child tax credit the gov't sent us during the pandemic. Seems even more appropriate given that money was initially "earmarked" for education anyway.
I think this is a great thing that will help many people. I've already paid off my student loans but I would have qualified for the forgiveness program.
I appreciate that you aren't one of the multitude of people bitching online that since they didn't get any help nobody should. Thank you.
No thanks needed. It's best for the country and everyone in it. Just because I won't benefit from it isn't a reason to oppose the policy. Only a selfish, moronic, douche would act such a way.
it's amazing how many douches there are.. it's like being mad the internet was invented after you went to school and wishing there was no internet because you didn't have access to it. apply this to any number of programs/areas of progress.
it's also funny that the "it's not fair" crowd is the same crowd who lives by the mantra "life isn't fair"
"Just because I won't benefit from it [directly] isn't a reason to oppose the policy. Only a selfish, moronic, douche would act such a way."
Fixed it for you
Good point EA. That is what I meant.
Your comment about it being the best for the country made me think of it. So many people are going to look at this as a negative because their tax dollars are paying for blah blah blah. The reality is this should be a net positive all around.
Thanks Joe!
From a foreigner ...
Is there going to be any incentive / regulation to address directly the incredibly high cost of school in the US, in tandem with the forgiveness? This is a necessary solution to address a very old problem, in the moment. But going to the source of the high debt ratio (again, in tandem with the relief) would seem like the most prudent thing to do, no?
this requires legislative action (and a 60 vote threshold), which will never happen with the current infection circulating in the republican party.
Long long ago there was a problem in America. The Prophecy foretold that a hero called The Next Generation would deal wit....*cough*....solve it. Everyone lived happily ever after. -the end-
So if you have grad school loads only but received a Pell Grant as an undergrad, you qualify for the full $20k of cancellation. And it's cancellation, not forgiveness and here's why:
https://theintercept.com/2022/...
Loans for undergraduates are capped; loans for graduate students are not. That is why graduate school is so much more expensive than undergraduate school - the schools simply can get away with price gouging so they do.
Tuition in general has been going up at five times the rate of inflation since the 70's. Biden's plan does not address these issues at all.
Biden's plan just makes the lender's whole. The borrowers will be responsible for paying income taxes on the amount their loans are reduced. I imaging collecting that income tax will be as difficult as it was collecting on the defaulted loan payments. Maybe some work ahead for Biden's new 87,000 IRS agents.
Never let facts get in the way of conservative ‘vibes’ and owning libs … right Volunteer?
“As a general rule, a discharge of indebtedness counts as income and is taxable, as my colleague Will McBride explains. Under § 9675 of the American Rescue Plan Act (ARPA), however, the forgiveness of student loan debt between 2021 and 2025 does not count toward federal taxable income.”
Some states *may* end up treating it as taxable income, but that outcome is uncertain. https://taxfoundation.org/student-loan-debt-cancelation-tax-treatment/
I’ll however agree with you that the cost of education should be less and I look forward to your support of funding education through appropriate taxation.
the conservative movement these days: full of grievances, lacking any ideas, thoughts, or contributions whatsoever.
Lately I've been pretty apathetic about both sides of the aisle. Was just talking with my dad the other day about how i'm fully prepared to be wholly disappointed with presidential options in 2 years.
definitely.. but some major legislation has gone through over the past 2 years that will measurably impact people's live for the better, no thanks to republicans (medicare negotiations, climate tax provision, student loan relief etc etc). i was incredibly despondent until the climate provisions passed recently, which will do a lot to reduce emissions over the next 20 years.
none of these are perfect, but only one party has shown any ability whatsoever to govern with any level of competence.
To each their own, I tend to focus more on fiscal policy than social / environmental. I tend to think social issues will change on their own as demographics change.
everything i mentioned IS fiscal policy-i don't buy the argument that environmental policy isn't directly intertwined with economic policy (most of these are tax credits, after all), and same for "social" if that's what you're labeling things like capping insulin costs for seniors and allowing the government to directly negotiation with drug companies.
disagree with these policies, but it's damn near impossible to claim that "both sides" are operating on the same level in anyway you want to measure government performance.
i don't like biden and most of the dem party, but i'm a realist and can recognize that capping drug costs for the elderly is great policy, while giving tax cuts to the rich is bad policy.
"I tend to think social issues will change on their own as demographics change."
*SCOTUSing intensifies*
Please, tell me more about this both sidesism and how it helps anyone anywhere.
Was it viewed as fiscal or social policy when then Gov. Reagan was defunding education and encouraging a system where people would need to take out loans to pay for their own education, all so he could combat the social issues (commies and Vietnam War protesters) he was scared of at the time? I'll give you a hint: https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/archives/speech/january-17-1967-statement-governor-ronald-reagan-tuition
P.s. Aren't we all pretty disappointed in presidential options every 4 years.
Is there no problem we cannot find as a link on Reagan's ghost's Jacob Marley-esque chain?
Probably, but they might have all happened before his time.
Square: Truthfully, I just don't worry about the environment. I recycle, I try not to be wasteful, it's realistically going to be a problem down the line etc. but I don't base my vote on it. Reasonably priced medicine costs are an important social & fiscal issue. I never said they're mutually exclusive, I just care more about one than the other.
Pete: As a general rule of thumb I think as the older generations dies out things get a bit more liberal socially, that's what I was referring to. It's a gradual shift, but for the most part a constant one.
EA: In all likelihood it was piss poor management of both. Agreed on the P.S., but I feel like I'm extra disappointed by the lack of civility. Even if I disagreed policy wise I could go for another Obama / McCain election right about now.
Call it both side-ism if you want, but the worlds not black & white it's a perpetually complex grey. There are some good idea's on both sides & there are bad ideas / people on both sides I wish would fade into the great void never to be heard from again.
"Both sides" ignores the difference in scale. Citing that one time vs citing a stated political strategy doesn't equalize the two conditions.
Your recycling is made irrelevant by corporations' waste. Without policy you base your vote on there will be no improvement. Recycling is a con perpetuated by industry to leverage your guilt and cause you to end up where you currently are: ignorant and apathetic to their pollution.
The "ROI" for education is being educated, not a salary. This idea that there should only be education for job training is garbage. That does not obviate the problem with cost of education, tho.
Can you please, for once, stick to the topic at hand instead of indulging your id and using examples that sidetrack the conversation?
Institutions of learning exist because of a tested history of research gives them credibility. That credibility is their value.
Podcasts exist as a communication medium. Nothing about platforms for discussing certifies the information provided there. In fact, that is often the point: anyone can have a public voice, no research or credibility needed. They have their place but not necessarily as reliable sources of credible learning.
[my thumbs down just means i do not agree. I’m not going to a argue with your opinions]
All people are bad, so let's kill everyone.
Colleges and Universities, don't guarantee student loans.
Employers, as the ones benefitting from from your education, should be the ones paying for your loans. Our better yet; college should be free.
Maybe instead of using a broad brush to avoid telling everyone you don't have the interest or ability to make tough choices, you spend the intellectual capital to discern the reality: that the rest of your life will be spent within the current system and, while you can work to change it, throwing up your hands and saying "THEY'RE ALL BAD!" simply serves to keep the Republicans in power because they have no qualms about using idiots like you to cement their power.
Remarkable.
Wow. Is this a platform.
One is six families is having difficulties this month in paying their utility bills. It will get much worse this winter. It stands to reason they are also having difficulty in feeding their children. Why should they have additional debt piled on their shoulders because someone wanted to go to college and major in a field of study that is almost guaranteed not to pay well or have decent working conditions?
Many (most?) fields of study are valuable from a knowledge point of view but are best pursued after retirement from a related career that will support yourself and family.
But you were good with trump's tax breaks, right? Because they were for the hard working rich, right?
The US Military, over the next 10 years, will get 10 trillion dollars from these same families that you're soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo concerned about, yet not a peep.
I went to a state school and paid as I went out of savings. The construction workers on our projects resent having to pay for someone else's architecture education, especially when they need to school the architects after they graduated. They aren't happy about it. They don't know that I paid full fare at time of departure - but I better have the right answers when I draw up a detail
My heart bleeds for those poor contractors. If only they weren't so navel gazing.
Bullshit. I've yet to meet a contractor call me out on anything. I spend nearly all of my time calling out contractors inability to even do the basics. Read.
zonker - I'll take things that didn't happen for $500 Alex.
If you’re upset about student loan forgiveness just wait til you hear about corporate welfare’s impact on inflation since the 80’s! Bad bad bad on those pesky students wanting to learn for free/ a reasonable price. That money could be going to Amazon Apple Google to reduce their corporate taxes from 1% to 0!
The best idea is not to take those student loans from what I've heard, there are a lot of hooks unfortunately
Kind of hard not to take out student loans when a degree costs around $50K. There aren't that many scholarships and not everyone's parents are wealthy.
That's very, very rare. Only 3% of all US business offer some type of tuition reimbursement for higher education. Most cap the reimbursement at $5K a year and the classes must be related to the business.
"not everyone's parents are wealthy."
I'd hazard that MOST are not (in context of affording university as cash). The 4yr msrp of many colleges (out-of-state state unis & privates) add up to $250-300k. Even families that are comfortable & can afford their given lifestyles don't have $250k lying around in cash; or don't have the financial bandwidth to just mortgage their entirety of their wealth (whatever that is) for a 4yr institution...
We would and we could. Unfortunately 'free' education and healthcare are the only real recruiting tools the US armed forces have. Those will never be given away for free to every citizen.
My opinion is that the only way we're going to get reduced cost or free higher education for every citizen is if the government:
1. Capped tuition
2. Regulated proffits for schools
3. Regulated salaries for school admins.
For some people any government regulation is 'evil socialism' though so it won't happen.
Ukraine would disagree, or even Taiwan. [Yeah, that's extreme, but there are reasons to be involved in the world, militarily & diplomatically. The idea that removing ourselves everywhere would create less conflict is at odds with reality. Stability is often thanks to a bunch of countries agreeing to not invade each other, but the military outreach ensures those agreements.]
Service guarantees citizenship.
I dunno. Members of the US military already get a living wage, healthcare, housing assistance, and a pension. Why should they also get free higher education?
If this pisses you off but you're against partial student loan forgiveness for non military then you're a hypocrite.
not to mention a 20yr job arc to full retirement
To be fair they could get shot at a lot during those 20 years. Then again they chose to go into the military so . . .
No question re: being shot at...that's why they get the bennies
I'd argue that it's in our best interest to provide an education in order that they don't come back and kill everyone here.
I don't think that's how it works bta. Also less than 30% of the military use the GI bill to get a higher education. Regardless the US taxpayers and service members still put money into the fund. Each service member is required to put around $2K total into the GI Bill fund from their first 18-20 paychecks. Each US taxpayers on average pay around $90 a year of their taxes into the GI Bill fund. If the GI Bill fund isn't used up each year (it never is) then the military can use the funds for whatever they want.
How convenient.
Isn't it. Yet people are OK with it because we must respect our military without question.
Also vice versa.
The U.S. Military is the only reason why I am not 2 foot shorter and a cooking rat over a dumpster fire. Rag on the institution and feel smart about it all you want, but keep it in mind that the military guaranteed a future worth living to every single South Korean (50+ millions). It seems like it will be the same case for Taiwan. If the U.S. did not occupy Japan, the Soviets would have, and that’s 100+ million people’s future down the toilet. Maybe on net, the U.S. Military still has done more bad than good in your opinion, but for hundreds of millions around the world like me, it is the main institution that allowed me to have a life worth living.
Yeah, no. You know why? Because we unfortunately can't prove the counterfactual. What if the US never intervened in Korea, and what if the US never entered a Cold War with the USSR.
Yeah, there's a lot of assumptions there.
Yep there is. Genuine question: is there a country that commies touched that didn't get fucked up for at least 50 years?
I'm beginning to like this question. I'll go with Cuba. And you might talk about Cuba is stuck in the 1950's, and I'll say sure, American Imperialism, an illegal blockade, and constant CIA bullshit.
Jason Young Kim wrote:
"The U.S. Military is the only reason why I am not 2 foot shorter and a cooking rat over a dumpster fire. Rag on the institution and feel smart about it all you want . . ."
No one is raging on the military.
I'm upset that the main reason the US doesn't have free or subsides healthcare and higher education is that those are the two major incentives used to get US citizens to join the military.
At most we're 'ragging' on the US government who deprives it's citizens of healthcare and an education so it can get people to volunteer for the military.
Jason Young Kim wrote:
". . . but keep it in mind that the military guaranteed a future worth living to every single South Korean (50+ millions). "
There was a draft for the Korean war. About 80% didn't choose so serve. FYI.
In my opinion, it is a good idea to write off these student debts, it would be good for students
Responding to OP:
What I'm more interested in is the 5% income-based repayment plan because since the get-go, almost 10 years now, I've been paying with this plan, but the loan amount has increased since income-based repayment doesn't cover all the interest. I'm in that boat.
So, in essence, the $10/20k I receive is just covering the interest that has accumulated over time.
It wasn't till much later that I realized this was happening and when I called the Feds to ask what's going on they only responded with, "Don't worry, in about 11 years it'll all be forgiven." Referring to the 25-year forgiveness program. [Cringe-worthy].
I haven't found the literature yet, but I do hope this tidbit is resolved.
I had a pell grant in undergrad and am just barely under the maximum salary requirement.
I had been working on paying off my loans during the pandemic, but if I could get the full 20k it would effectively erase the remainder of my student loans.
Unfortunately the GOP is working hard to make sure you stay in debt as long as possible.
I’ve paid off just under 115k in loans, like a sucker!
Which part? The taking of $115k, or the paying it off?
this student loan forgivness has pushed me closer to jumping off a cliff! I cant take this life anymore...when Biden originally announced the program, i spend several hours researching to make sure that my loans qualified..i have quite a few loans totaling $17,000 and all of them are FFEL STAFFORD subsidized loans that i took from my university i also had one pell grant. everywhere i read on line said that these loans qualified for forgiveness as they were federally backed so i was really happy and eagerly waiting for the first week in October to roll around. Little did i know and conveniently my loan holder NELNET had my loans pckages as commercial loans in their system. And eventho i called several
Times to get a refund for what i paid during coving and to checkon the status, not one of their wmployees told me that my loans were converted to commercial until a few nights ago when someone finally was able to tell me that my request for a refund was denied. And also that i dont qualify for forgiveness annnnd that there was a deadline on September 29th to consolidate any loans for forgiveness..but why the hell would i care to consolidate before when all my loans were originally stafford loans to begin with.
So far, no one has been able to tell me when my loans were converted to commercial and why, all they can say is that, i dont qualify for any forgiveness and the deadline is already passed.. (middle fingers up to the world)
It sucks. Blame the republicans. Good Luck.
If these are private loans, and not federally backed, file for bankruptcy.
Over $17K? WTF?!?
Its funny, bankruptcy wont get rid of them yet they are “commercial loans” ..Apparently they were a “special” type of federal loan that got discontinued in 2010.
If i knew they were not actual federal loans i would have consolidated way before September 29th. But every website i visited said that that FFEL stafford loans were federal loans and should have qualified. So basically i got screwed. Not to mention i am not eligible for the refund of what i paid last year that i could so desperately use.
Sorry to hear this. A good learning experience to understand any loan you take out.
ssmall if your congressional representative isn't a republican you might get some help sorting this out for you by reaching out to their office. It sounds like you were misled.
Bullshit. Well unless the Republicans take over.
I think he's doing a decent job. Better than Trump. We'll see in a month what happens with the student loan forgiveness. It all depends on what the Republicans do.
I am sure we can rely on them to act in our best interests...
Most dems and rep - probably. The stop the steal republicans - no way.
Most republicans on the ballot are stop the steal morons.
I think architecture firms should pay architecture student debt, with all the unpaid overtime of its interns and employees. Win Win.
The repubs will block it when they take back both houses and that will be that. I'm glad I paid as I went, took it out of savings(went to a state school with low tuition back in the mid 0's. Graduated clear and free - to only go broke when laid off in 08' - if I had a student debt then, I would have to have filed for bankruptcy
Student debt is not discharged by bankruptcy.
zonker - when did you go to school? I ask because you seem to know very little about student loans and cost of education.
When I went to school in the late 0s, there were 3 schools in my state with undergrad architecture programs, all at about 25k a year for just tuition, which wasn’t going to get better going anywhere I looked out of state…. Minimum wage was less than 8 dollars in my state…
I occasionally wonder how many architecture schools there are in the US that you could actually work your way though. Without scholarships, or an education, presuming you could reasonably work a half time job and still do alright in school….
Where did you go Zonker?
Cal Berkeley
That makes sense. I was going to point out that about the only school I knew of that I could have seen someone work their way though was CPP.... Because it's the cheapest school I know and the minimum wage in the state is about the highest hahaha... of course that's only true if you have in-state residency...
1) not how government works 2) this didn't age well
Chad, when? 2002 > 2007
What type of job did you have and how much savings did you you have? Did you have any scholarships? I ask because for that time period tuition plus fees for a 15 credits a semester was around $14K a year.
I worked for a video game company as an environment designer - I was making 120
I worked for a video game company as an environment designer - I was making 120
I worked for a video game company as an environment designer - I was making 120
In video games I was well paid and used my bonus to pay 1/2 my years tuition and the rest came out of savings, a fidelity account where I did well for myself on stocks - architecture is a second career for me and I spent years in preparation and savings to pull it off - a smart investment
Not sure why chad is digging so hard. Sounds like you had a pretty solid and very atypical setup. You never suggested that high school students should be able to do what you did though, only what you did and that you were happy you did... Glad to hear things worked out for you. Curious why you switched from that job though?
When one does an atypical career trajectory like I did, there is a lot of skeptical people - and consequently, I've had to work twice as hard to prove myself, and still do after 15 years. Even my PMs where I work are skeptical - It's the way it is. Anyway, the reason I changed careers from a Maya 3D video game designer had to do with the fact that what were were doing at the time in video games could be used for designing actual buildings - this was 2001, and we were designing cities with Maya and Sketchup. I was transitioning the technology into architecture. around the same time. TU Delft was doing similar work and a book called the "gameification of architecture" was written
I'm digging hard because zonker never claimed anything about his situation and wanted to know how he / she did it.
I had assumptions that zonker was a older than average student who had a well paying job before going into college for architecture. I simply wanted to know more.
High school students should do this approach - currently I'm designing a school in san Francisco, called PolyMath for City College SF- I started with the curriculum as a design driver - Math and programming classes with art and design classes to teach the students to visually integrate math and design - the same way I leaned math and design - and music - Jazz of architecture and architecture of jazz -
We've done similar things with our local school district. The district is moving to STEAM so we commonly make the buildings a teaching tool. Each space expresses STEAM concepts. Exposed structure with applied vector loads. Providing internal views to rooftop MEP equipment with explanations of what does what. Incorporating the mathematical proportion formulas expressed graphically. The use of binary and coding language as fenestration patterns that have hidden messages. We try to create these 'hidden in plane sight' type references throughout the buildings. In one school we placed "what did you do to get here" in a binary pattern in the perforated ceiling material above the principal's desk.
Correct, over 40 at the time - on a well a paying video game job, I was able to sock away cash for my “dream shot” in architecture - still working in arch and no plans to retire anytime soon either - a rigorous physical fitness and diet plan stave off the ravages of “old age and treachery”
That's what I thought. I'm glad that you realize the unique situation you were in and didn't have the 'I did it so why don't you' attitude.
A federal judge in Texas just ruled Biden's debt forgiveness plan to be illegal. I suppose the Department of Education will appeal to the Supremes, but the appeal is unlikely to prevail or even be taken up by the Court.
Electing Trump is still paying dividends for the folks who think power is just a fun game and the populace merely pawns, innit?
How's that red wave going? More like a pink mist, yeah?
isn't a federal judge in texas under jurisdiction of the president? can he be removed from his seat for hearing frivolous, politically motivated cases?
Current tradition requires impeachment, seems it's debatable, but not likely to be challenged by Biden, who keeps the status quo when possible, for good or ill.
Biden somewhere: "Thanks for the votes suckers!"
More like - Republicans: "That will show those socialist bastards."
Missed this before. I managed to get the standard 20k application submitted as well as a TEPLSF application submitted just under the wire. Haven't heard anything back yet about either, though as I understand it even if the 20k wipeout gets killed via lwsuits the TEPLSF should still stand...?
I think it's a good idea to write off student loans, but that's just my opinion
has anyone here been successful with their loan forgiveness?
No updates for me yet, but as I understand it the pending/ongoing litigation means it definitely won't be "immediate"...
Bummer
I have a neighbor who got hers to her great surprise
Which states do not require any college all to eventually become licensed in architecture?
Look here. It's not many. I can think of only SD. There may be more.
https://www.ncarb.org/get-lice...
Whoops - looks like SD changed. Thirteen states (including Guam and Washington DC) don't require an accredited degree to become an architect. Seven of those states I'm certain require a college degree to pursue an alternate path to licensure. I'm not certain about the other six.
Thanks for looking it up. Depending on the type of architecture the student wants to pursue, maybe not going to school at all is an option? Getting an entry level position as a draftsman might be difficult but working for several years at a modest wage might be more valuable financially than throwing really heavy tuition toward these schools. Could the entry-level-want-to-be-an architect become as as educated by actually working in the field as opposed to attending school? If the would-be architect already has an undergraduate degree in the fine arts or a related engineering field attending architecture school becomes more problematic.
I got a promising letter in mail from MOHELA which seems to indicate that all the qualifying payments I submitted were accepted and that I have no remaining payments left. However, the website seems to indicate something else...and when I tried calling I waited on hold for over 30 mins before just hanging up!
Has anyone seen their loans forgiven via the income-driven repayment account adjustment forgiveness program yet? Mohela and Federal Student Aid have been saying on their websites that it is supposed to happen this spring. It hasn't happened for me yet but gosh it sure will be nice when it does.
I actually did get mine recently/finally though it was like 6 months of a black hole...
Um...did anyone get this in the mail?
I'm a little afraid, and cautiously optimistic.
Damn bro, u r old.
I didn't get that but it's my same servicer. Ever hopeful.
stlil paying tuition loans 20-25y out? Damn....
Truth be told, I was in college at 13.
'Merican stubent lobn deebt.
My gov issued loans were set to auto repay over 14y after 1 year post grad and they even cut the balance by 50% just because I clicked on a form. Then again, it's fake communist monies and the total was likely less than one semester of flying-eagle-freedum tuition... so it does not compare.
it looks like you have to sign up for income-based repayment, and forgiveness happens 25 years after you start paying if you have a grad degree. does that sound right? i don't know much about the program, but it looks helpful
I've been checking every day this week. So far, it's still real.
b3tadine[sutures] it says that your forgiveness is effective as of 8/31/16. Does that mean you will be getting a refund for the payments you made after 8/31/16?
Haruki, yes it does apparently.
That is fantastic. Mazal tov!
curtkram: Correct. 25 years for grad loans with good standing. 20 years for undergrad.
If one was really smart and talented, expensive universities would cover 100% of the cost of education if they were unable to pay.
The rich pay for themselves.
Its the people who are not the smartest and not the most talented who are stupid enough to over-pay for a degree that they can't afford to pay back.
That first part is pure BS.
Really? How so? I have never heard of someone who comes from a poor family but is super smart and talented (according to the institution's standards) NOT getting a full ride. Never.
Wow, you really are simple cunt. The rich are stealing from the poor to buy off their education, or busy blowing the admission's officers. I'm going to guess you are doing the latter.
BB - yes I've heard of it and personally seen it myself many times. Heck, you could even be middle to lower middle class and not get a full ride. Now please be quiet you insufferable little punter.
I was offered a free ride at my state university, thanks to grants, scholarships and financial aid. But I would have had to study engineering, as they didn't have an architecture school at the time. Instead I went to at the time the most expensive private university in the US so I could study architecture. I ended up getting a degree in engineering there instead, with about half of it paid by grants and scholarships. So that kind of half-supports BB's claims, but not fully--if I was smart enough and poor enough to get a full ride at my state university, why wasn't it enough for the expensive private school?
(And yes, as an adult I have frequently regretted my decisions but my parents left the decisions up to me.)
Because someone else was
Because someone else was
They didn’t want you badly enough
BB - your comment to WG seem to contradict your previous assertion that all the smart and talented poor people get full ride scholarships at expensive universities.
You're either really bad at trolling or really uninformed about the amount and types of scholarships out there.