I'm a lay neighborhood advocate, not an architect.
Proposed is three-story multi-family adjacent to airport. Concern is airport noise will create rental turnover, thereby attracting lower incomes and increasing crime.
What is the state of the art in noise suppression architecture? Briefly reading online, it seems an ideal might be to have a freestanding wood frame building constructed inside a freestanding masonry shell, where the two shells connect only at window and door frames. Everywhere else would be either an air gap or sound-absorbing material.
But has anyone attempted this?
If not, what is the most effective that is practical?
SneakyPete
Aug 10, 22 11:57 am
"attracting lower incomes and increasing crime."
Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. People have a right to shelter. If your profit margins can't handle people without means needing an apartment, perhaps consider another source of income. Might I suggest one where you can pull your head out of your ass?
Non Sequitur
Aug 10, 22 12:05 pm
Agree with Pete above, go away scum.
Chad Miller
Aug 10, 22 12:07 pm
Michael Malak -
First off, hire an architect. The free advice you're asking for is what we're paid to do. What your asking for would be considered a type of feasibility study. It's not going to cost you much - probably in the range of 30 - 50 hours.
Second, I know you want to create a good building. However, your comments about low income tenants are objectionable and obtuse. Having low income tenants does NOT increase crime.
Good luck with your project.
michaelmalak
Aug 10, 22 12:25 pm
It is not my project. I am in favor of increasing available housing stock, and I am merely relaying what others in the neighborhood are perceiving -- sorry I didn't make that clear.
Because it is not my project -- I'm not a developer -- I am in no position to hire an architect. All I can do is advocate feasibility in public forums.
And I would like to expand available housing in my neighborhood.
b3tadine[sutures]
Aug 10, 22 12:32 pm
Walls are not the issue, windows are the issue. Most neighborhoods fall into an airport zoning criteria and have mitigation standards for new and existing housing stock. Look into that. Second, apartments in and of themselves have a measure of turnover. Third, if you're an advocate you need to do better job of tackling the explicit NIMBYism, borderline racist and classist attitude of your community.
Non Sequitur
Aug 10, 22 1:29 pm
Michael Malak, there is no hiding your prejudices... regardless of what you tell yourself. What you need to do is engage with a local architecture firm (and pay them) to establish a reasonable wall assembly but what you describe sounds like a clusterfuck.
michaelmalak
Aug 10, 22 1:35 pm
b3tadine[sutures]: Thank you for the key phrase "airport zoning". To my surprise, it exists specifically for this one small airport. Also found the noise contours that show 50% of the parcel doesn't even fall into the lowest category (65 LDN).
Wood Guy
Aug 10, 22 1:10 pm
Buildings with double-stud walls with dense-packed cellulose insulation and triple-glazed Passive House windows are nearly silent inside.
natematt
Aug 10, 22 1:23 pm
Yes. The developer needs to hire a professional to weigh the issue against the budget and come up with the best solution. This shouldn't be that hard to solve, and there are probably at least some requirements for this in the local zoning code, etc. Seems entirely fair for the neighborhood advocate to press the developer on this issue, but the reality is that it doesn't make much sense for them to seek out or make recommendations.
I would probably tee up the question in a very different way than they have...
Michael Malak now owes WoodGuy and b3tadine[sutures] $150 each for their time. ;)
b3tadine[sutures]
Aug 10, 22 3:24 pm
How about a copy of the house book.
Chad Miller
Aug 10, 22 4:38 pm
Only if the OP buys you copy. :)
proto
Aug 10, 22 2:50 pm
re: windows, laminated glass performs better than triple glazing for sound transmission...there are lots of IGU recipes out there -- consult the manufacturers to get their STC/OITC values
atelier nobody
Aug 10, 22 5:03 pm
Your proposed solution would likely work, but is overly complex and very expensive.
I'm a lay neighborhood advocate, not an architect.
Proposed is three-story multi-family adjacent to airport. Concern is airport noise will create rental turnover, thereby attracting lower incomes and increasing crime.
What is the state of the art in noise suppression architecture? Briefly reading online, it seems an ideal might be to have a freestanding wood frame building constructed inside a freestanding masonry shell, where the two shells connect only at window and door frames. Everywhere else would be either an air gap or sound-absorbing material.
But has anyone attempted this?
If not, what is the most effective that is practical?
"attracting lower incomes and increasing crime."
Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. People have a right to shelter. If your profit margins can't handle people without means needing an apartment, perhaps consider another source of income. Might I suggest one where you can pull your head out of your ass?
Agree with Pete above, go away scum.
Michael Malak -
First off, hire an architect. The free advice you're asking for is what we're paid to do. What your asking for would be considered a type of feasibility study. It's not going to cost you much - probably in the range of 30 - 50 hours.
Second, I know you want to create a good building. However, your comments about low income tenants are objectionable and obtuse. Having low income tenants does NOT increase crime.
Good luck with your project.
It is not my project. I am in favor of increasing available housing stock, and I am merely relaying what others in the neighborhood are perceiving -- sorry I didn't make that clear.
Because it is not my project -- I'm not a developer -- I am in no position to hire an architect. All I can do is advocate feasibility in public forums.
And I would like to expand available housing in my neighborhood.
Walls are not the issue, windows are the issue. Most neighborhoods fall into an airport zoning criteria and have mitigation standards for new and existing housing stock. Look into that. Second, apartments in and of themselves have a measure of turnover. Third, if you're an advocate you need to do better job of tackling the explicit NIMBYism, borderline racist and classist attitude of your community.
Michael Malak, there is no hiding your prejudices... regardless of what you tell yourself. What you need to do is engage with a local architecture firm (and pay them) to establish a reasonable wall assembly but what you describe sounds like a clusterfuck.
b3tadine[sutures]: Thank you for the key phrase "airport zoning". To my surprise, it exists specifically for this one small airport. Also found the noise contours that show 50% of the parcel doesn't even fall into the lowest category (65 LDN).
Buildings with double-stud walls with dense-packed cellulose insulation and triple-glazed Passive House windows are nearly silent inside.
Yes. The developer needs to hire a professional to weigh the issue against the budget and come up with the best solution. This shouldn't be that hard to solve, and there are probably at least some requirements for this in the local zoning code, etc. Seems entirely fair for the neighborhood advocate to press the developer on this issue, but the reality is that it doesn't make much sense for them to seek out or make recommendations.
I would probably tee up the question in a very different way than they have...
Thank you for the key phrase "double stud walls"
My friend and collaborator wrote this piece about them: https://www.finehomebuilding.com/project-guides/insulation/a-case-for-double-stud-walls. The house he built before the one shown was my design and had similar (though not identical) details.
Michael Malak now owes WoodGuy and b3tadine[sutures] $150 each for their time. ;)
How about a copy of the house book.
Only if the OP buys you copy. :)
re: windows, laminated glass performs better than triple glazing for sound transmission...there are lots of IGU recipes out there -- consult the manufacturers to get their STC/OITC values
Your proposed solution would likely work, but is overly complex and very expensive.
Could always hire an acoustical engineer