450 Warren by SO-IL is quite the stunning experience but I was surprised to see that their mesh "wall" was code compliant without any guardrails whatsoever. It is a "wall" in that the mesh extends from slab to slab but there is a smallish gap (3" or so) where the mesh connects with the slab edges. Anyone knows more about this kind of enclosures?
Well, you could nudge it with a firm finger-push but it is secured tightly enough that it's not flopping in the wind. So - more on the rigid side but definitely not as rigid as a guardrail!
Non Sequitur
Jun 6, 22 8:44 am
so... future ankle breaking installation then. I'm not even sure how I would start explaining this to a AHJ over here. Bet ya they would still ask for a full guard in front of the mesh.
monosierra
Jun 6, 22 10:11 am
Yeah NYC is usually pretty strict about this kind of stuff. And this is a condo that is selling for $2mil per unit! Fat guardrails like they one installed at the balconies/alcoves would ruin the ethereal vibes of the atrium ... curious if the building department will have anything to say.
t a z
Jun 6, 22 10:22 am
There are structural loading requirements of 50 PLF at top of rail (any direction) or a 200 LB point load at top of rail (any direction) and the 4" gap rule, but servicability (deflection) is not codified.
Non Sequitur
Jun 6, 22 11:25 am
deflection is codefied in my hood if the deflection could increase openings in guard/mesh/fishingnet greater than 100mm dia sphere.
proto
Jun 6, 22 12:47 pm
I'm sure the loading surpasses code & keeps people from falling. It may be unsettling to some folks looking for a hand rail to steady them, but otherwise, looks cool to me
t a z
Jun 6, 22 1:34 pm
I think the fact that the atirum "hallway" is sprinklered may mean the mesh barrier is actually considered to be a "wall" partition.
proto
Jun 7, 22 1:55 pm
more likely the roof/ceiling than any wall enclosure would prompt a sprinkler head
It's pretty damned close to the rendered vibes. The atrium was quite the spatial experience. I thought it was a bit tongue-in-cheek that SO-IL installed those giant guardrails at the alcoves in front of each apartment - they serve no purpose - but opted not to install any at the slab edges.
Chad Miller
Jun 6, 22 10:27 am
I ::think:: the guardrails you're referring to are because of ADA code.
proto
Jun 6, 22 12:49 pm
definitely a lot more rough/apocalyptic experience in reality
Chad Miller
Jun 7, 22 2:58 pm
I like the apocalyptic aesthetic. Mount some spikes on that thing and it's ready to go! ;)
jwo
Jun 6, 22 10:51 am
Guardrails aside, that place does not look inviting in the least. It reminds of a compact urban jail. Firms like this have considerable talent but try so hard to question everything that the results often do not please the senses. Back to basics, please.
Almosthip
Jun 6, 22 11:25 am
I agree, very cold and unwelcoming
Chad Miller
Jun 6, 22 11:57 am
Meh - all the plantings will make it more inviting. ::ends sarcasm::
will galloway
Jun 6, 22 12:41 pm
That bridge is stunning. The quality of construction doesnt quite live up to the design like it would in other countries (Japan, parts of Europe), but for USA it is well executed.
FWIW, Sejima used simple chainlink at the shibaura house to amazing effect, without guardrails - but it relies on the setting more than the details (which are so very simple and blunt), which is I think an essential reason so many of her buildings are as astounding as they are. She and Nishizawa are very good at letting the architecture step back. At 450 warren the building is forced to come to the front and has to work a lot harder. But then the design needs to be more like Herzog and DeMeuron than SANAA ; not the background of SO-IL. Perhaps that explains part of the discontent I am hearing above. Even so, I think the building is exceptional and a very large step above normal in this part of the world. Very happy to see they were able to pull it off.
About the railing...not sure about NY code, but 5468796 used floor to floor chainlink in their 62M project in Winnipeg without any handrails either, so it seems to be possible even in the mid-west. Can't think of many places more conservative than that.
proto
Jun 6, 22 12:50 pm
thx for the links - interesting stuff!
monosierra
Jun 7, 22 1:22 pm
That kitchen by 5468798 ... w
ow
will galloway
Jun 11, 22 5:26 pm
the one on the top floor? Yeah, it is very nice. Larger than it seems as well. Pretty cool place.
Non Sequitur
Jun 11, 22 5:43 pm
I did not know about this project by the phone number firm. Thanks for the share Will.
will galloway
Jun 11, 22 6:25 pm
no worries. They are doing a lot of nice work lately as they grow. Check out their parking garage project in Calgary that is pre-set for conversion into apartments. Hot off the press.
I'll dig for the paper copy when I'm in the office next.
will galloway
Jun 12, 22 7:54 pm
cool. And nicely written by Trevor Brody.
bowling_ball
Jun 12, 22 9:20 pm
I've been in the penthouse at 62M. There are nice moments but a lot of it is pure crap. Like, they should be embarrassed. Maybe I'll expand later
bowling_ball
Jun 12, 22 9:26 pm
Having said that, their work is very photogenic. Just don't get too close. I'll leave it at that for now.
will galloway
Jun 14, 22 3:26 pm
that wasnt my impression. I quite liked it. They are doing a lot on hard budgets. But Im from Tokyo where quality is measured in a different way than you might be comfortable with. You might want to revoke Sejima's Pritzker if you saw some of her work. You'd be wrong, though ;-)
450 Warren by SO-IL is quite the stunning experience but I was surprised to see that their mesh "wall" was code compliant without any guardrails whatsoever. It is a "wall" in that the mesh extends from slab to slab but there is a smallish gap (3" or so) where the mesh connects with the slab edges. Anyone knows more about this kind of enclosures?
https://450warren.com/building...
Is that mesh super rigid or elastic?
Well, you could nudge it with a firm finger-push but it is secured tightly enough that it's not flopping in the wind. So - more on the rigid side but definitely not as rigid as a guardrail!
so... future ankle breaking installation then. I'm not even sure how I would start explaining this to a AHJ over here. Bet ya they would still ask for a full guard in front of the mesh.
Yeah NYC is usually pretty strict about this kind of stuff. And this is a condo that is selling for $2mil per unit! Fat guardrails like they one installed at the balconies/alcoves would ruin the ethereal vibes of the atrium ... curious if the building department will have anything to say.
There are structural loading requirements of 50 PLF at top of rail (any direction) or a 200 LB point load at top of rail (any direction) and the 4" gap rule, but servicability (deflection) is not codified.
deflection is codefied in my hood if the deflection could increase openings in guard/mesh/fishingnet greater than 100mm dia sphere.
I'm sure the loading surpasses code & keeps people from falling. It may be unsettling to some folks looking for a hand rail to steady them, but otherwise, looks cool to me
I think the fact that the atirum "hallway" is sprinklered may mean the mesh barrier is actually considered to be a "wall" partition.
more likely the roof/ceiling than any wall enclosure would prompt a sprinkler head
Renderings vs reality
http://fieldcondition.com/blog...
It's pretty damned close to the rendered vibes. The atrium was quite the spatial experience. I thought it was a bit tongue-in-cheek that SO-IL installed those giant guardrails at the alcoves in front of each apartment - they serve no purpose - but opted not to install any at the slab edges.
I ::think:: the guardrails you're referring to are because of ADA code.
definitely a lot more rough/apocalyptic experience in reality
I like the apocalyptic aesthetic. Mount some spikes on that thing and it's ready to go! ;)
Guardrails aside, that place does not look inviting in the least. It reminds of a compact urban jail. Firms like this have considerable talent but try so hard to question everything that the results often do not please the senses. Back to basics, please.
I agree, very cold and unwelcoming
Meh - all the plantings will make it more inviting. ::ends sarcasm::
That bridge is stunning. The quality of construction doesnt quite live up to the design like it would in other countries (Japan, parts of Europe), but for USA it is well executed.
FWIW, Sejima used simple chainlink at the shibaura house to amazing effect, without guardrails - but it relies on the setting more than the details (which are so very simple and blunt), which is I think an essential reason so many of her buildings are as astounding as they are. She and Nishizawa are very good at letting the architecture step back. At 450 warren the building is forced to come to the front and has to work a lot harder. But then the design needs to be more like Herzog and DeMeuron than SANAA ; not the background of SO-IL. Perhaps that explains part of the discontent I am hearing above. Even so, I think the building is exceptional and a very large step above normal in this part of the world. Very happy to see they were able to pull it off.
About the railing...not sure about NY code, but 5468796 used floor to floor chainlink in their 62M project in Winnipeg without any handrails either, so it seems to be possible even in the mid-west. Can't think of many places more conservative than that.
thx for the links - interesting stuff!
That kitchen by 5468798 ... w ow
the one on the top floor? Yeah, it is very nice. Larger than it seems as well. Pretty cool place.
I did not know about this project by the phone number firm. Thanks for the share Will.
no worries. They are doing a lot of nice work lately as they grow. Check out their parking garage project in Calgary that is pre-set for conversion into apartments. Hot off the press.
Thanks Will. Looks like that garage is the main focus of June's Canadian Architect plublication. (page 20 https://www.canadianarchitect.com/june-2022/)
I'll dig for the paper copy when I'm in the office next.
cool. And nicely written by Trevor Brody.
I've been in the penthouse at 62M. There are nice moments but a lot of it is pure crap. Like, they should be embarrassed. Maybe I'll expand later
Having said that, their work is very photogenic. Just don't get too close. I'll leave it at that for now.
that wasnt my impression. I quite liked it. They are doing a lot on hard budgets. But Im from Tokyo where quality is measured in a different way than you might be comfortable with. You might want to revoke Sejima's Pritzker if you saw some of her work. You'd be wrong, though ;-)