At the risk of having my commenting rights removed once more from my own thread, I am going to ask:
What is the worst experience you ever had along your architectural path?
Let this thread be a collection of traumatic narrations, bitter confessions and acknowledged regrets.
justavisual
May 30, 22 4:10 pm
I'll bite. Only had one truly bad experience in my career so far:
Booted from a team by colleagues and friends for "not doing enough work" after asking for some time off (aka not taking on extra work) to recover emotionally and physically from two miscarriages within one year. Note - there was no paid work to do at that moment in time...it was just an excuse to get rid of me so they could do the work alone. Woman on woman in this industry - doesn't get any lower than that in my opinion.
SneakyPete
May 30, 22 5:15 pm
I had a colleague I considered a good friend throw me under the bus to save their own skin. We didn't talk after that. Was a real shame.
archiwutm8
Jun 29, 23 6:29 am
Aye been there and done that.
archiwutm8
Jun 29, 23 6:29 am
Aye been there and done that.
archanonymous
May 31, 22 12:48 am
First week at a new job we had an impromptu meeting so I needed to quickly print two schedules I was working on in Excel. I selected the relevant cells and printed "fit to page." My boss looked at them and said "why aren't these columns the same width, are you a fucking idiot?"
...and yeah, I was dumb enough to work there for 4 more years. Starchitect that you all definitely know and talks up how great the firm culture is in interviews and social media.
RJ87
Jun 1, 22 3:23 pm
Only vaguely related to your story but it reminded me of a time that someone presented an elevation that had been colored up in photoshop. The signage was really small so the principal asked him if he could make it bigger & his response was "I tried but this is the biggest font size photoshop has". No one called him a "fucking idiot", but everyone in the room thought he was one.
Wood Guy
May 31, 22 1:28 pm
I designed an addition to an old home in bad shape, for newish friends. The idea was that they would live in the addition and then renovate/restore the original house.
I started with a bare-bones addition to meet their budget but they kept adding and adding... and then had me design the renovations to the main house as well. I had a construction business at the time as well, and once they were happy with the design, I put together a construction estimate, which totaled roughly twice what they had wanted to spend originally. Considering the extra work (and my warnings about budget every time they added something) I thought they would find the price reasonable. They did not.
We had our last few meetings with a loaded pistol (a Luger or Ruger, I forget which) on the table; he's quirky and it wasn't that surprising, and I've been around guns my whole life so they don't bother me if handled with care. But when he turned beet red, started yelling at me and put his hand on the gun, I got out of there as quickly as I could. Then they tried to stiff me for $7K in design fees, after I had already done all of the pre-design and schematic design at no charge, and gave them a discount on my hourly rate after that.
We live in neighboring small towns and have some unique hobbies that make it hard to avoid each other, but we have done pretty well at staying apart for the five years since that happened. I have a temper myself and I have been exercising a lot; if I saw him there is a good chance I would not be able to resist punching him. (She was around for all of it but she's relative milquetoast.)
They are owners of a nationally well-known small business making a niche product which comes up in my circles regularly. I have to keep my lips shut about just how crazy the owners are.
justavisual
May 31, 22 1:32 pm
haha wow!
Non Sequitur
May 31, 22 4:45 pm
Ricky, you’re literally the reason why we need excessive regulation of firearms. Leave that for the other thread. Oh, wait, the one you were nuked from? Damn. Must suck to constantly get it wrong every single time. Nice story WG.
Non Sequitur
May 31, 22 7:39 pm
Am I? don't think so. Literally nothing you said about the 2A is intelligent Ricky. Leave it to intelligent dirty Canadian communists to show ya'll m'ericans how to do things.
Also, RIP WG's inbox.
Wood Guy
Jun 1, 22 8:05 am
Rick if this was some random person, I would walk out as well, but we were friends, I had showed him my collection of antique rifles, he had shown me his cannabis-growing setup (before it was legal here; he said I was the only person other than his wife to have seen it), we had shared several meals together. Neither they nor us have kids or many visitors. Having an antique handgun out where it's visible was perfectly in character so I didn't think much of it, until he lost his shit on me.
Le Courvoisier
May 31, 22 3:46 pm
Shut up Balkins
archanonymous
May 31, 22 4:15 pm
Yes, please.
zonker
May 31, 22 6:58 pm
A person, that tries to con me into doing freebie work for them - they have 0 funds, and always say the money is coming and I will get get "paid" " but first, you need to quit your day job at XYZ associates to work for us until, the money comes in" Then tries to guilt trip me into doing an entire apt. building at the last minute -
natematt
May 31, 22 7:24 pm
I'm not anonymous enough for that sort of question...
Donna Sink
May 31, 22 11:08 pm
The first bad experience that comes to mind is: I’m a fresh-faced idealistic 19yo college student. I go to the wedding of a high school friend, where I’m introduced to a Chicago architect as “This is Donna, she’s in school to become an architect!” to which the middle-aged cynical white guy tosses back his drink and says “Why would you want to do that to yourself?”
Something about that gleeful desire to kill the dreams of young people angered me deeply. I’ve been fighting it ever since.
sameolddoctor
Jun 1, 22 1:24 am
Yes, I had a principal at SOM talk me down once on how working in a smaller office and being entrepreneurial was a waste of time, and that corporate offices like SOM were the shit. I didn't have the cojones to walk out on him but I should have.
monosierra
Jun 1, 22 8:12 am
He should have a death match with that Sci-Arc panel who insists corporate offices are sell-outs and students should work for free at artistic practices.
geezertect
Jun 1, 22 8:54 am
Maybe it was a clumsy way of warning you to look before you leap. I wish someone had popped my cherry at that age. It would have saved me some disillusionment and opportunity cost.
sameolddoctor
Jun 1, 22 11:06 am
Oh, I was already disillusioned by that age, I was already 10 years in the biz. II really do not think SOM is "the shit", its one of the worse examples of corporate firm + tom wiscombe type ethics....
atelier nobody
Jun 1, 22 9:08 pm
While I was in school, I was working as a coffee jerk. One of the regulars was a principal at a very well known firm and we'd sometimes chat architecture. One day he comes in with his son, a high school senior, who he is trying to talk out of architecture school. He points to me and says, "see, this is the kind of job an architecture student can look forward to."
nabrU
Jun 7, 22 4:51 pm
Same dickhead probably taught me animation...
gibbost
Jun 1, 22 2:36 pm
DB2022 - By any chance, was this an expansion to a museum in fly-over, middle America?
whistler
Jun 1, 22 8:56 pm
I have a couple;
- Freshly minted graduate eager to show what I can do in a decent office getting paid above average for the region at the time. Walked into the worst bunch nagging, cynical staff setup ever. The large black cloud over everyone's head was absolutely stifling. Lasted two days ... dropped off a thank you note on the morning of the third day and never returned ( thankfully I never saw the principle again )
- First major project where I was offered to lead the project design ( simple outdoor pool ). Shit contractor and mechanical lead who messed up the concept of being able to "pull the plug" to drain down the pool and winterize it IE not freeze out the pipes. Epic fail, that lead to a brutish encounters with the client ( ex military dude ) / contractor that simply was beyond what I ever could conceive as disrespectful and counter to any meaningful concerted effort to resolve the problem diplomatically. Me being a pleaser ( at least back then ) changed my view of the profession. My boss had bid the job too low and kept me around to resolve and just hoped it would get swept under the rug or go away. Absolutely hated the experience and nearly quit the profession. In hind sight it was the single best learning experience ever, but F__K did it suck at the time.
-Lastly getting sued in a subrogated insurance claim ( AKA shotgun lawsuit where everyone is named ) I got drawn into a claim where the roof partially caved in on a SF residence due to snow loads at a ski resort. Structural Engineered didn't spec the right connections and never inspected the work in the are in question. Fair it was new resort with zero history for snow loading, but they were from the area and the only guys doing work there so it was expected that they had reasonable experience. Man did I ever paddle to find every shred of evidence to support my case. I even had the smoking gun ( a copy of an email where the contractor asked about using a particular clip connection that he had modified as the spec'd ones weren't available and the Struc. Eng said it was okay to use ) Still had to pay to get outta that one. Turns out the contractor had been cutting corners on multiple projects and got caught a year or two later. About two years after that the house that had the roof issue burned down ( homeowner issue ) .. Karma!. Funny thing was the homeowner phoned me to assist with rebuild and had no idea I had been sued by his own insurance company ... Still asked to use the old plans as part of the rebuild, at his insurance companies suggestion?????
... I said No!
atelier nobody
Jun 1, 22 9:23 pm
I was the job captain on a project with an inexperienced PM and a designer with...um...higher aspirations... I'm having a fine old time figuring out the detailing on all the fancy stuff Mr Wannabe Gehry/Moss is coming up with, but I do keep raising the question of whether the budget will support it and keep being told not to worry my geeky little head about the budget.
Then the client takes our 50% set to some contractors for some preliminary pricing which, surprise of surprises, comes in about 3X the project budget and we get sued. All I can keep thinking is, "please, please, please don't depose me, because if all I do is answer yes/no questions honestly it'll be seen as throwing my bosses under the bus."
geezertect
Jun 3, 22 8:09 am
Sometimes throwing the bosses under the bus is a time honored way of getting noticed (by outsiders who can do you some good). A dangerous strategy, but if the hotshot "designer" was incompetent and the bosses assigned you as essentially a cleanup functionary, maybe it's time to move on anyway.
atelier nobody
Jun 3, 22 7:33 pm
Yeah, I didn't stay with that firm a whole lot longer...
monosierra
Jun 4, 22 8:52 pm
It's the worst nightmare - having to deal with the aftermath of a wannabe starchitect's scribbles. In some cases, the only economical way this arrangement could work is a robust supply of Chinese technical architects who have no choice but to serve the whimsies of the in-house Zaha/Gehry while they wait for their green cards.
Wilma Buttfit
Jun 2, 22 8:57 am
The first 15 years of it.
natematt
Jun 2, 22 6:38 pm
Have you by chance been working for 15 years? :)
bowling_ball
Jun 5, 22 12:59 am
Let's see.
Maybe it was getting fired from my first job. Boss was a tyrant so that's not it.
Or maybe getting fired from my second job. Boss was a condescending dick, so that's not it.
I'm currently being sued as a third party / shotgun approach but haven't lost any sleep about that one. Yet.
There was the time a mafia client stiffed me for $50k in fees. He died in an "accident" a couple months later. Nothing to do with me, but he deserved it. I have funny stories and that was a decade ago.
Recently I was invited for a drink "down by the river" by a client's rep with ties to organized crime, including a well - documented beating he took via baseball bat outside his busy office in front of a street full of people. But we're cool because I made his job super easy. Did I mention he sued my firm before my time there? Because he did, and we won.
Recently drove by an old project of mine (new build 40-unit condo) and the developer apparently went to another architect with our plans and built a copy on the same site. They were nice enough to change up the cladding colors at least. Not worth my time or aggravation to sue as the owner passed away and I don't need the headache.
These are just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are others....
SneakyPete
Jun 5, 22 1:09 am
Jesus, human who may or may not be a dude, that's intense.
bowling_ball
Jun 5, 22 1:33 am
This is one time when my high functioning ASD comes in handy. I can compartmentalize and move on extremely quickly.
whistler
Jun 6, 22 3:11 pm
I love the mob connections. Done a bunch houses for "mob - like" developers. Thankfully it was there own personal homes so no expense spared, but the contract negotiations were a bit tricky as everything I said was written into a little diary and deal done on a handshake, but always got paid and thankfully I under promised and over delivered. Became my best friends and biggest supporters. Still have their names on my list of references ( now of course that they have become big time legit developers ) Best part was during the build they would have me over on Saturdays when the whole family would come up and work on site... and I mean uncles, cousins, sons, daughters and grandparents. Cousin "Tony" worked the BBQ and cooked for everyone and at 2 pm we all sat down for a huge lunch with wine and pasta and fresh cooked bread and it went on for hours, not sure they got much done in the afternoon.
Hilarious, but so fun to see how they enjoyed each others company.
x-jla
Jun 21, 23 12:01 pm
I’ll take a mob client over a lawyer client any day.
Chad Miller
Jun 21, 23 12:18 pm
I've worked for both - it's a toss up.
I'd take a mob or lawyer client over a large MOB client any day though. ;)
SiameseDream
Jun 5, 22 10:35 pm
Worked in a religious building / ....wasnt happy about it ...pulled through.
archanonymous
Jun 7, 22 12:32 pm
I'll chime in with a couple more so you can all laugh with (at) me, since I managed to secure access to a wifi network that I can access from my van down by the river.
Working late one night on deadline (like 3am) at the end of a long (like 90 hour week) I drank too much beer from the kegerator (hey, it's there for a reason, right?) so I got terrible beer shits. So I'm in the bathroom in the middle of the night crapping my brains out and the guy I stayed late with to finish the proposal is looking for me. He calls me on my cell and I explain the situation between bouts of explosive gas and fecal matter. He needed an answer right away so he comes in the bathroom and we are talking through the stall door as I'm crapping my guts out. But at least the stalls were nice - marble clad with moody lighting. We got the proposal in on time but didn't win it.
Developer housing proposal in Iowa City. I drive out there to present to the developer and a couple people from the county with my boss and the aforementioned compatriot from the beer-shit episode. It goes terribly, of course, but I suggest we make an afternoon of it and look at some of the truly good architecture in town - Steven Holl's Art Building West was our first stop. Boss is driving and instead of parking so we can go look at it, he slow-rolls it with the windows down and just goes "yup, that's a whole lot of steel." then we get back on the interstate and drive home.
We'll go back to school for this one - I've always made beautiful models and so a prof asked me to do an interiors model for him for a client. I agree, build a banging model with precisely cut and scored millwork (all by hand, no laser shit for me) and put it in a cardboard box for him with packing peanuts (the bio-degradable corn starch kind). Well the fucking box got totally soaked in a rainstorm when he was transporting it to the client meeting and he calls me screaming immediately after, "what the fuck is this, why did you give me a model covered in your cum! There is no way I am paying you for this."
Again in school - get invited to a prof's house for a dinner. I assume there are other students going. Show up and it is just him, his stripper boyfriend, a single table in the middle of an empty room and a few candles burning. They want to know if I have any Adderall and would like to join for an evening in. Uh... no thanks.
Second office I ever worked at - first week, the partners take me to lunch (small office.) We have lunch and since I am following their lead, I order a glass of wine and nurse it. By the time plates have arrived, they are finished and moving on to martinis. After eating, they order another round of martinis and dismiss me to go back to work. The come back 2 hours later and all immediately go home. It was like that the whole time I worked there.
Client throws a chair across the room, breaking the laminated glass partition wall of the conference room. Instead of banning him from the office (or dropping the account) senior leadership decides it is a better idea to restrict the meeting to only principals and have underlings join via video to take notes. Firm name rhymes with Bensler.
I'm sure I'll think of more as I continue compiling memoirs from my time in architecture while relaxing in my van.
JLC-1
Jun 14, 23 11:21 am
the only really bad was about 15 years ago, got an irresistible offer to move to spain and be part of the first european office for a miami/caribbean company - long story short, management was inept to say the least, there was no team work, oversold a good dozen of projects to anxious russians and arabs, and in the end couldn't deliver anything, I was fired for not going to the office on a sunday and working from home instead, the clueless ceo from miami was in town and didn't like my "attitude". The spanish chairman died a year later and the company abandoned their european fantasies.
citizen
Jun 14, 23 2:48 pm
Did the chairman die "mysteriously"? Just curious.
JLC-1
Jun 14, 23 3:52 pm
he was a character, always in trouble with finance dept. for credit card use, smashed a rental car against a concrete wall at 120 km/h. he was alone.
archanonymous
Jun 14, 23 4:21 pm
Grim but not surprising.
Chad Miller
Jun 14, 23 12:41 pm
I've had few bad experiences.
While a student intern an PM at a firm didn't think I should have to take notes while he described what he wanted me to draft. The PM called me stupid and said I should use my brain and proceeded to poke me in the forehead. I broke his finger and moved to a different firm.
I did a short stint (one month) at a firm that was plagued nepotism (kids without any arch experience worked there) and a horrible office manager (the wife) who micro managed everything. The firm didn't get a $50 million project that they had no chance of getting and laid me off because I was 'incompetent'. This was because I didn't show a mirror exactly the way they did per the the AutoCAD standards. They tried to deny my UI claim and went so far as the appeal the decision to pay my UI two time, even brining in a 'expert computer annalist' to show I was incompetent (their son). The UI judge sided with me each time and finned the firm for perjury.
When I first came to my current location I worked for 9 months at a firm that didn't have the type of collaborative atmosphere I preferred. I thought I could make it work but the firm viewed collaboration, asking any questions, or needing to have your drawings QC'd as a sign of incomitance. After a six months owners of firm would make fun of the way I spoke (MN accent and a slight stutter). I told them this wasn't appreciated and they should stop. I decided to leave the firm and during my exit interview one owner said that I wasn't cut out be an architect and I should find a new profession. Over the next three years the new firm I was with beat the other firm out several large projects - all of which I was the lead designer. The owner of the previous firm was so upset about this he tried to sue a client we had for showing us favoritism for not getting a project. The client (a large public entity spoke) with said owner and 'convinced' them not to sue by explaining it was because they didn't do as good as work as my current firm.
JLC-1
Jun 14, 23 3:55 pm
no repercussions from that finger? I would have loved to caress some people I've encountered.
Chad Miller
Jun 14, 23 6:00 pm
Nope. The PM said I was fired. After explaining to the owner what happened the PM was told to knock it off and not to be such a dick.
kenchiku
Jun 15, 23 7:47 am
I was on a 4 month co-op term at a 'design-build' company. Was told I'd be 50/50 in the office / on the construction site which I was stoked about. The owner kept finding excuses to keep me on the site, where I was the cheapest labour by far. He'd also call me an idiot for not knowing how construction details worked, questioned how I even passed my classes, and would generally bad mouth all the people I worked on site with. Silver lining of never being in the office is I didn't have to deal with his B's too much. Everyone on the site were great and I learned so much from them.
Fuck you Ed.
Bench
Jun 15, 23 9:04 am
Can you say which school ?
kenchiku
Jun 15, 23 10:22 am
Dal
Chad Miller
Jun 15, 23 10:30 am
Nova Scotia?
kenchiku
Jun 15, 23 12:13 pm
I don't believe this employer is suggested as a co-op option anymore after me and a few students voiced our concerns over the years. Enjoy co-op! That summer semester youre in right now is a grind.
Bench
Jun 20, 23 8:47 am
And the beers on the pier really distract from getting the pesky work done ... (enjoy the summer term, it was easily my favourite)
kenchiku
Jun 15, 23 12:12 pm
Yea, Nova Scotia.
Catbread - I don't believe this employer is suggested as a co-op option anymore after me and a few students voiced our concerns over the years.
axonapoplectic
Jun 20, 23 8:09 am
my bad experiences fall into a few categories:
Working with micromanagers who care more about process than final product.
Clients/bosses who take a mile when you give them an inch.
Dealing with stubborn gatekeeping assholes.
And sociopaths.
archanonymous
Jun 20, 23 1:06 pm
Yes, sociopaths. Aka developers.
Chad Miller
Jun 20, 23 1:41 pm
I think you mean medical office tenants.
pandahut
Jun 20, 23 3:08 pm
Clients/bosses who take a mile when you give them an inch.
Story of my life.
curtkram
Jun 20, 23 7:57 pm
I think FLW or someone was once asked 'what's your favorite project' and they answered 'my next one.' i think that applies here too. 'what's your worst experience?' ya, it's probably my next one.
archanonymous
Jun 21, 23 7:54 am
Strangely optimistic. I like it.
bowling_ball
Jun 21, 23 7:04 pm
I hate that quote so much. It speaks to ego, lack of grit, and giving up on current work. It's depressing. MY favourite project is the one with problems to solve. I'll go ahead and even say that it's that lazy attitude that caused his buildings to leak - no respect for your clients, all for the sake of ego. Gross.
Wood Guy
Jun 29, 23 3:29 pm
I don't think you have to read it negatively unless you want to. I love the early stages of (residential) design, where everyone is in honeymoon mode and the possibilities are nearly endless. I love solving the bulk of the problems through the design process. Toward the end of the process, it usually becomes a slog, not due to moral failing but because budgets get used up, compromises are made, contractors can be hard to work with, clients are worn out, sometimes to the point of getting divorced. After the project is done and a year or so goes by, the challenging aspects are far in the rearview mirror and the clients are thrilled with their new space, it's fun again.
____
Jun 21, 23 6:51 pm
The path to licensure.
x-jla
Jun 21, 23 8:50 pm
Worst experience was being accused of burglary. some out of town developer asked me to provide a design quote for a property that they owned. They gave me the gate code and permission to visit the site. Two days later I get a call from a detective. After my site visit the house got broken into. The detective asked me to come in for fingerprints to rule me out as a suspect. They ruled me out I guess because I never heard anything back. The developer called me a few weeks later and tried grilling me over the phone asking if I knew anything. “Come on man, tell me the truth”. A month or so after that the developer calls me again and asks if I’m still interested and that they caught someone breaking into other houses in the neighborhood and it was the same guy. I told them that I was too busy to take new clients. I had a lot more to say, but I held my tongue and acted professionally.
Orhan Ayyüce
Jun 21, 23 11:01 pm
if it's between those people and the burglar, I'm with the burglar!
At the risk of having my commenting rights removed once more from my own thread, I am going to ask:
What is the worst experience you ever had along your architectural path?
Let this thread be a collection of traumatic narrations, bitter confessions and acknowledged regrets.
I'll bite. Only had one truly bad experience in my career so far:
Booted from a team by colleagues and friends for "not doing enough work" after asking for some time off (aka not taking on extra work) to recover emotionally and physically from two miscarriages within one year. Note - there was no paid work to do at that moment in time...it was just an excuse to get rid of me so they could do the work alone. Woman on woman in this industry - doesn't get any lower than that in my opinion.
I had a colleague I considered a good friend throw me under the bus to save their own skin. We didn't talk after that. Was a real shame.
Aye been there and done that.
Aye been there and done that.
First week at a new job we had an impromptu meeting so I needed to quickly print two schedules I was working on in Excel. I selected the relevant cells and printed "fit to page." My boss looked at them and said "why aren't these columns the same width, are you a fucking idiot?"
...and yeah, I was dumb enough to work there for 4 more years. Starchitect that you all definitely know and talks up how great the firm culture is in interviews and social media.
Only vaguely related to your story but it reminded me of a time that someone presented an elevation that had been colored up in photoshop. The signage was really small so the principal asked him if he could make it bigger & his response was "I tried but this is the biggest font size photoshop has". No one called him a "fucking idiot", but everyone in the room thought he was one.
I designed an addition to an old home in bad shape, for newish friends. The idea was that they would live in the addition and then renovate/restore the original house.
I started with a bare-bones addition to meet their budget but they kept adding and adding... and then had me design the renovations to the main house as well. I had a construction business at the time as well, and once they were happy with the design, I put together a construction estimate, which totaled roughly twice what they had wanted to spend originally. Considering the extra work (and my warnings about budget every time they added something) I thought they would find the price reasonable. They did not.
We had our last few meetings with a loaded pistol (a Luger or Ruger, I forget which) on the table; he's quirky and it wasn't that surprising, and I've been around guns my whole life so they don't bother me if handled with care. But when he turned beet red, started yelling at me and put his hand on the gun, I got out of there as quickly as I could. Then they tried to stiff me for $7K in design fees, after I had already done all of the pre-design and schematic design at no charge, and gave them a discount on my hourly rate after that.
We live in neighboring small towns and have some unique hobbies that make it hard to avoid each other, but we have done pretty well at staying apart for the five years since that happened. I have a temper myself and I have been exercising a lot; if I saw him there is a good chance I would not be able to resist punching him. (She was around for all of it but she's relative milquetoast.)
They are owners of a nationally well-known small business making a niche product which comes up in my circles regularly. I have to keep my lips shut about just how crazy the owners are.
haha wow!
Ricky, you’re literally the reason why we need excessive regulation of firearms. Leave that for the other thread. Oh, wait, the one you were nuked from? Damn. Must suck to constantly get it wrong every single time. Nice story WG.
Am I? don't think so. Literally nothing you said about the 2A is intelligent Ricky. Leave it to intelligent dirty Canadian communists to show ya'll m'ericans how to do things.
Also, RIP WG's inbox.
Rick if this was some random person, I would walk out as well, but we were friends, I had showed him my collection of antique rifles, he had shown me his cannabis-growing setup (before it was legal here; he said I was the only person other than his wife to have seen it), we had shared several meals together. Neither they nor us have kids or many visitors. Having an antique handgun out where it's visible was perfectly in character so I didn't think much of it, until he lost his shit on me.
Shut up Balkins
Yes, please.
A person, that tries to con me into doing freebie work for them - they have 0 funds, and always say the money is coming and I will get get "paid" " but first, you need to quit your day job at XYZ associates to work for us until, the money comes in" Then tries to guilt trip me into doing an entire apt. building at the last minute -
I'm not anonymous enough for that sort of question...
The first bad experience that comes to mind is: I’m a fresh-faced idealistic 19yo college student. I go to the wedding of a high school friend, where I’m introduced to a Chicago architect as “This is Donna, she’s in school to become an architect!” to which the middle-aged cynical white guy tosses back his drink and says “Why would you want to do that to yourself?”
Something about that gleeful desire to kill the dreams of young people angered me deeply. I’ve been fighting it ever since.
Yes, I had a principal at SOM talk me down once on how working in a smaller office and being entrepreneurial was a waste of time, and that corporate offices like SOM were the shit. I didn't have the cojones to walk out on him but I should have.
He should have a death match with that Sci-Arc panel who insists corporate offices are sell-outs and students should work for free at artistic practices.
Maybe it was a clumsy way of warning you to look before you leap. I wish someone had popped my cherry at that age. It would have saved me some disillusionment and opportunity cost.
Oh, I was already disillusioned by that age, I was already 10 years in the biz. II really do not think SOM is "the shit", its one of the worse examples of corporate firm + tom wiscombe type ethics....
While I was in school, I was working as a coffee jerk. One of the regulars was a principal at a very well known firm and we'd sometimes chat architecture. One day he comes in with his son, a high school senior, who he is trying to talk out of architecture school. He points to me and says, "see, this is the kind of job an architecture student can look forward to."
Same dickhead probably taught me animation...
DB2022 - By any chance, was this an expansion to a museum in fly-over, middle America?
I have a couple;
- Freshly minted graduate eager to show what I can do in a decent office getting paid above average for the region at the time. Walked into the worst bunch nagging, cynical staff setup ever. The large black cloud over everyone's head was absolutely stifling. Lasted two days ... dropped off a thank you note on the morning of the third day and never returned ( thankfully I never saw the principle again )
- First major project where I was offered to lead the project design ( simple outdoor pool ). Shit contractor and mechanical lead who messed up the concept of being able to "pull the plug" to drain down the pool and winterize it IE not freeze out the pipes. Epic fail, that lead to a brutish encounters with the client ( ex military dude ) / contractor that simply was beyond what I ever could conceive as disrespectful and counter to any meaningful concerted effort to resolve the problem diplomatically. Me being a pleaser ( at least back then ) changed my view of the profession. My boss had bid the job too low and kept me around to resolve and just hoped it would get swept under the rug or go away. Absolutely hated the experience and nearly quit the profession. In hind sight it was the single best learning experience ever, but F__K did it suck at the time.
-Lastly getting sued in a subrogated insurance claim ( AKA shotgun lawsuit where everyone is named ) I got drawn into a claim where the roof partially caved in on a SF residence due to snow loads at a ski resort. Structural Engineered didn't spec the right connections and never inspected the work in the are in question. Fair it was new resort with zero history for snow loading, but they were from the area and the only guys doing work there so it was expected that they had reasonable experience. Man did I ever paddle to find every shred of evidence to support my case. I even had the smoking gun ( a copy of an email where the contractor asked about using a particular clip connection that he had modified as the spec'd ones weren't available and the Struc. Eng said it was okay to use ) Still had to pay to get outta that one. Turns out the contractor had been cutting corners on multiple projects and got caught a year or two later. About two years after that the house that had the roof issue burned down ( homeowner issue ) .. Karma!. Funny thing was the homeowner phoned me to assist with rebuild and had no idea I had been sued by his own insurance company ... Still asked to use the old plans as part of the rebuild, at his insurance companies suggestion?????
... I said No!
I was the job captain on a project with an inexperienced PM and a designer with...um...higher aspirations... I'm having a fine old time figuring out the detailing on all the fancy stuff Mr Wannabe Gehry/Moss is coming up with, but I do keep raising the question of whether the budget will support it and keep being told not to worry my geeky little head about the budget.
Then the client takes our 50% set to some contractors for some preliminary pricing which, surprise of surprises, comes in about 3X the project budget and we get sued. All I can keep thinking is, "please, please, please don't depose me, because if all I do is answer yes/no questions honestly it'll be seen as throwing my bosses under the bus."
Sometimes throwing the bosses under the bus is a time honored way of getting noticed (by outsiders who can do you some good). A dangerous strategy, but if the hotshot "designer" was incompetent and the bosses assigned you as essentially a cleanup functionary, maybe it's time to move on anyway.
Yeah, I didn't stay with that firm a whole lot longer...
It's the worst nightmare - having to deal with the aftermath of a wannabe starchitect's scribbles. In some cases, the only economical way this arrangement could work is a robust supply of Chinese technical architects who have no choice but to serve the whimsies of the in-house Zaha/Gehry while they wait for their green cards.
The first 15 years of it.
Have you by chance been working for 15 years? :)
Let's see.
Maybe it was getting fired from my first job. Boss was a tyrant so that's not it.
Or maybe getting fired from my second job. Boss was a condescending dick, so that's not it.
I'm currently being sued as a third party / shotgun approach but haven't lost any sleep about that one. Yet.
There was the time a mafia client stiffed me for $50k in fees. He died in an "accident" a couple months later. Nothing to do with me, but he deserved it. I have funny stories and that was a decade ago.
Recently I was invited for a drink "down by the river" by a client's rep with ties to organized crime, including a well - documented beating he took via baseball bat outside his busy office in front of a street full of people. But we're cool because I made his job super easy. Did I mention he sued my firm before my time there? Because he did, and we won.
Recently drove by an old project of mine (new build 40-unit condo) and the developer apparently went to another architect with our plans and built a copy on the same site. They were nice enough to change up the cladding colors at least. Not worth my time or aggravation to sue as the owner passed away and I don't need the headache.
These are just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are others....
Jesus, human who may or may not be a dude, that's intense.
This is one time when my high functioning ASD comes in handy. I can compartmentalize and move on extremely quickly.
I love the mob connections. Done a bunch houses for "mob - like" developers. Thankfully it was there own personal homes so no expense spared, but the contract negotiations were a bit tricky as everything I said was written into a little diary and deal done on a handshake, but always got paid and thankfully I under promised and over delivered. Became my best friends and biggest supporters. Still have their names on my list of references ( now of course that they have become big time legit developers ) Best part was during the build they would have me over on Saturdays when the whole family would come up and work on site... and I mean uncles, cousins, sons, daughters and grandparents. Cousin "Tony" worked the BBQ and cooked for everyone and at 2 pm we all sat down for a huge lunch with wine and pasta and fresh cooked bread and it went on for hours, not sure they got much done in the afternoon. Hilarious, but so fun to see how they enjoyed each others company.
I’ll take a mob client over a lawyer client any day.
I've worked for both - it's a toss up.
I'd take a mob or lawyer client over a large MOB client any day though. ;)
Worked in a religious building / ....wasnt happy about it ...pulled through.
I'll chime in with a couple more so you can all laugh with (at) me, since I managed to secure access to a wifi network that I can access from my van down by the river.
I'm sure I'll think of more as I continue compiling memoirs from my time in architecture while relaxing in my van.
the only really bad was about 15 years ago, got an irresistible offer to move to spain and be part of the first european office for a miami/caribbean company - long story short, management was inept to say the least, there was no team work, oversold a good dozen of projects to anxious russians and arabs, and in the end couldn't deliver anything, I was fired for not going to the office on a sunday and working from home instead, the clueless ceo from miami was in town and didn't like my "attitude". The spanish chairman died a year later and the company abandoned their european fantasies.
Did the chairman die "mysteriously"? Just curious.
he was a character, always in trouble with finance dept. for credit card use, smashed a rental car against a concrete wall at 120 km/h. he was alone.
Grim but not surprising.
I've had few bad experiences.
While a student intern an PM at a firm didn't think I should have to take notes while he described what he wanted me to draft. The PM called me stupid and said I should use my brain and proceeded to poke me in the forehead. I broke his finger and moved to a different firm.
I did a short stint (one month) at a firm that was plagued nepotism (kids without any arch experience worked there) and a horrible office manager (the wife) who micro managed everything. The firm didn't get a $50 million project that they had no chance of getting and laid me off because I was 'incompetent'. This was because I didn't show a mirror exactly the way they did per the the AutoCAD standards. They tried to deny my UI claim and went so far as the appeal the decision to pay my UI two time, even brining in a 'expert computer annalist' to show I was incompetent (their son). The UI judge sided with me each time and finned the firm for perjury.
When I first came to my current location I worked for 9 months at a firm that didn't have the type of collaborative atmosphere I preferred. I thought I could make it work but the firm viewed collaboration, asking any questions, or needing to have your drawings QC'd as a sign of incomitance. After a six months owners of firm would make fun of the way I spoke (MN accent and a slight stutter). I told them this wasn't appreciated and they should stop. I decided to leave the firm and during my exit interview one owner said that I wasn't cut out be an architect and I should find a new profession. Over the next three years the new firm I was with beat the other firm out several large projects - all of which I was the lead designer. The owner of the previous firm was so upset about this he tried to sue a client we had for showing us favoritism for not getting a project. The client (a large public entity spoke) with said owner and 'convinced' them not to sue by explaining it was because they didn't do as good as work as my current firm.
no repercussions from that finger? I would have loved to caress some people I've encountered.
Nope. The PM said I was fired. After explaining to the owner what happened the PM was told to knock it off and not to be such a dick.
I was on a 4 month co-op term at a 'design-build' company. Was told I'd be 50/50 in the office / on the construction site which I was stoked about. The owner kept finding excuses to keep me on the site, where I was the cheapest labour by far. He'd also call me an idiot for not knowing how construction details worked, questioned how I even passed my classes, and would generally bad mouth all the people I worked on site with. Silver lining of never being in the office is I didn't have to deal with his B's too much. Everyone on the site were great and I learned so much from them.
Fuck you Ed.
Can you say which school ?
Dal
Nova Scotia?
I don't believe this employer is suggested as a co-op option anymore after me and a few students voiced our concerns over the years. Enjoy co-op! That summer semester youre in right now is a grind.
And the beers on the pier really distract from getting the pesky work done ... (enjoy the summer term, it was easily my favourite)
Yea, Nova Scotia.
Catbread - I don't believe this employer is suggested as a co-op option anymore after me and a few students voiced our concerns over the years.
my bad experiences fall into a few categories:
Working with micromanagers who care more about process than final product.
Clients/bosses who take a mile when you give them an inch.
Dealing with stubborn gatekeeping assholes.
And sociopaths.
Yes, sociopaths. Aka developers.
I think you mean medical office tenants.
Clients/bosses who take a mile when you give them an inch.
Story of my life.
I think FLW or someone was once asked 'what's your favorite project' and they answered 'my next one.' i think that applies here too. 'what's your worst experience?' ya, it's probably my next one.
Strangely optimistic. I like it.
I hate that quote so much. It speaks to ego, lack of grit, and giving up on current work. It's depressing. MY favourite project is the one with problems to solve. I'll go ahead and even say that it's that lazy attitude that caused his buildings to leak - no respect for your clients, all for the sake of ego. Gross.
I don't think you have to read it negatively unless you want to. I love the early stages of (residential) design, where everyone is in honeymoon mode and the possibilities are nearly endless. I love solving the bulk of the problems through the design process. Toward the end of the process, it usually becomes a slog, not due to moral failing but because budgets get used up, compromises are made, contractors can be hard to work with, clients are worn out, sometimes to the point of getting divorced. After the project is done and a year or so goes by, the challenging aspects are far in the rearview mirror and the clients are thrilled with their new space, it's fun again.
The path to licensure.
Worst experience was being accused of burglary. some out of town developer asked me to provide a design quote for a property that they owned. They gave me the gate code and permission to visit the site. Two days later I get a call from a detective. After my site visit the house got broken into. The detective asked me to come in for fingerprints to rule me out as a suspect. They ruled me out I guess because I never heard anything back. The developer called me a few weeks later and tried grilling me over the phone asking if I knew anything. “Come on man, tell me the truth”. A month or so after that the developer calls me again and asks if I’m still interested and that they caught someone breaking into other houses in the neighborhood and it was the same guy. I told them that I was too busy to take new clients. I had a lot more to say, but I held my tongue and acted professionally.
if it's between those people and the burglar, I'm with the burglar!