I'm thinking about turning down an offer as intern at BIG. The "salary" doesn't allow me to live in Copenhagen. I was thinking on getting a loan to do take this "great" opportunity. But is it really worth it? Does it really pushes your career up? Thanks for your answers.
Non Sequitur
May 12, 22 3:40 pm
You're an absolute colossal idiot if you take out a LOAN in order to work at BIG. Only fools take unpaid/low pay internships and it will only hamper your career.
Have some fucking respect for yourself and step away. Find an office that respects its staff and offers fair compensation.
square.
May 12, 22 3:51 pm
paying to work.. that's rich!
citizen
May 12, 22 9:02 pm
^ Literally!
,,,,
May 14, 22 12:55 pm
I am wondering if the OP exceeds expectations if they are going to give their employer a performance bonus.
gibbost
May 12, 22 3:54 pm
You're talking about an office that gets some of the largest commissions in the world. They made over $90M last year. BI himself is worth over $15M. As stated above, please do not reinforce their shitty message that interns should need to accept slave wages just to be a part of their work.
Jacq Arch
May 12, 22 3:56 pm
Gen z: should I take a loan out to pay myself to work?
Every other generation that came before: are you crazy?! Winter is coming
square.
May 12, 22 3:58 pm
i actually find that gen z is pretty smart on these issues - this one seems like an outlier.
Jay1122
May 12, 22 4:13 pm
Sometimes I am really curious whether the new graduates know what they will be doing at an actual practicing firm. What do you think you will do during your intern period in those big name firms. Come up with the concept for the new museum? Doing amazing hand sketches of the design that will be framed? Direct licensed architects on the design and construction detailing? Truth is, During your "intern", you will probably get assigned non critical tasks. Then pick up the comments from the ego filled designers/architects and revise them over and over. You short period of internship will fly by real fast. Some interns spend whole summer doing the physical models.
Chad Miller
May 12, 22 5:26 pm
Jay has some serious jealousy when it comes to designers. He's not wrong about what you will probably be doing as part of your initial internship though.
Then again I do know of fresh grads who came up with concepts, did sketches that got framed, built physical models, met with clients, ect. You've got to be talented to get to do that type of work though. That or have all of the other people in your office not be good a those things.
I'd think a firm like BIG would be able to pay talented staff a living wage. Don't take an underpaid internship regardless of who it's with and what you'll be working on. You're worth more than that.
b3tadine[sutures]
May 12, 22 6:46 pm
Jay, is a douchenozzle. Explain to me what non-critical tasks would have an intern take out a loan, to spend 60-80 hours inside a firm like BIG? You're either a fucking boomer, or just don't comprehend the level of exploitation these firms employ. Dick.
Chad Miller
May 12, 22 6:49 pm
Explain to me what non critical tasks are done in a building design and documentation? I'd like to know so I can stop having them done on projects. It would save our team members a bunch of time! :P
Nammoadiaphat
May 12, 22 7:32 pm
What you know is more valuable than what you are entitled to.. BIG seems to want their interns to crank out design renders and mundane tasks.
monosierra
May 12, 22 10:09 pm
BIG is a weird firm. It is clearly competing with the likes of SOM and KPF for the kind of bread and butter commercial projects that can sustainthe overhead of blue chip acronym firms. Yet it continues to leverage its brand cache of a hip creative firm to underpay employees/interns.
SneakyPete
May 13, 22 11:40 am
Hi, person who works at BIG who is reading this. Pay your staff better. Be a good example of more than diagrams.
Chad Miller
May 13, 22 12:14 pm
You really think a person at BIG who has that type of decision making ability is reading this?
b3tadine[sutures]
May 13, 22 1:08 pm
Patrimetric has been known to frequent the forum.
sameolddoctor
May 13, 22 1:13 pm
Right ... (s)he is probably researching ways to make interns even more miserable in their spare time...
SneakyPete
May 13, 22 1:44 pm
I believe most firms google themselves from time to time, and Archinext is one of the better known Architecture websites, so yeah, I do think so.
sameolddoctor
May 13, 22 2:30 pm
Yeah, but they won't give a rat's ass - there are plenty of willing trust fund baby interns they can lay their hands on.
reallynotmyname
May 13, 22 1:42 pm
Maybe try negotiating for more money by showing them data that the wage being offered doesn't cover basic living expenses in the city. I'd be interested in hearing how they respond to that.
Will they speak the unspoken truth that they as starchitects don't feel compelled to offer a living wage because there are plenty of rich kids willing and available to fill their intern positions?
bowling_ball
May 14, 22 12:13 am
I've done exactly this. Show them relevant salary info and see how they react.
kenchiku
May 14, 22 8:51 am
How'd they react?
bowling_ball
May 14, 22 2:52 pm
I got exactly what I asked for, which was the average intern salary in my jurisdiction (of available salaries anyway).
Le Courvoisier
May 13, 22 10:21 pm
Bjarke’s name on your resume is not worth paying for.
Archi2237
May 14, 22 10:09 am
Thanks to everyone for the comments! Even the ones that reveal deep anger management issues. I did engage in trying to get a better offer. Nevertheless, they see payment, not as salary, but a compensation for experience. I'm not sure if it might be a common practice in Denmark, I have seen some similar Job descriptions in other architecture firms in the region. Anyway. It is how it is. I agree that they are not worth of my time. There are better options out there.
SneakyPete
May 14, 22 10:10 am
Take pride in the fact that they wanted you.
Non Sequitur
May 14, 22 10:26 am
There is no anger issues in any of the above comments. Feel proud to say no to slavery.
reallynotmyname
May 14, 22 10:58 am
"payment, not as salary, but a compensation for experience" sounds like a crock of shit to me.
b3tadine[sutures]
May 14, 22 3:59 pm
Take pride in the fact that you told them to go punt, and you didn't fall for their shit.
SneakyPete
May 15, 22 9:21 am
That too.
Orhan Ayyüce
May 14, 22 3:35 pm
There are a couple of good things you can learn when you work for star architects: one, you come to the point of demystifying that kind of trajectory. The other is, that you learn about high-level creative marketing personnel and how much more important, than you, those people are to your boss. Sometimes they have opposing effects on you.
I'm thinking about turning down an offer as intern at BIG. The "salary" doesn't allow me to live in Copenhagen. I was thinking on getting a loan to do take this "great" opportunity. But is it really worth it? Does it really pushes your career up? Thanks for your answers.
You're an absolute colossal idiot if you take out a LOAN in order to work at BIG. Only fools take unpaid/low pay internships and it will only hamper your career.
Have some fucking respect for yourself and step away. Find an office that respects its staff and offers fair compensation.
paying to work.. that's rich!
^ Literally!
I am wondering if the OP exceeds expectations if they are going to give their employer a performance bonus.
You're talking about an office that gets some of the largest commissions in the world. They made over $90M last year. BI himself is worth over $15M. As stated above, please do not reinforce their shitty message that interns should need to accept slave wages just to be a part of their work.
Gen z: should I take a loan out to pay myself to work?
Every other generation that came before: are you crazy?! Winter is coming
i actually find that gen z is pretty smart on these issues - this one seems like an outlier.
Sometimes I am really curious whether the new graduates know what they will be doing at an actual practicing firm. What do you think you will do during your intern period in those big name firms. Come up with the concept for the new museum? Doing amazing hand sketches of the design that will be framed? Direct licensed architects on the design and construction detailing? Truth is, During your "intern", you will probably get assigned non critical tasks. Then pick up the comments from the ego filled designers/architects and revise them over and over. You short period of internship will fly by real fast. Some interns spend whole summer doing the physical models.
Jay has some serious jealousy when it comes to designers. He's not wrong about what you will probably be doing as part of your initial internship though.
Then again I do know of fresh grads who came up with concepts, did sketches that got framed, built physical models, met with clients, ect. You've got to be talented to get to do that type of work though. That or have all of the other people in your office not be good a those things.
I'd think a firm like BIG would be able to pay talented staff a living wage. Don't take an underpaid internship regardless of who it's with and what you'll be working on. You're worth more than that.
Jay, is a douchenozzle. Explain to me what non-critical tasks would have an intern take out a loan, to spend 60-80 hours inside a firm like BIG? You're either a fucking boomer, or just don't comprehend the level of exploitation these firms employ. Dick.
Explain to me what non critical tasks are done in a building design and documentation? I'd like to know so I can stop having them done on projects. It would save our team members a bunch of time! :P
What you know is more valuable than what you are entitled to.. BIG seems to want their interns to crank out design renders and mundane tasks.
BIG is a weird firm. It is clearly competing with the likes of SOM and KPF for the kind of bread and butter commercial projects that can sustainthe overhead of blue chip acronym firms. Yet it continues to leverage its brand cache of a hip creative firm to underpay employees/interns.
Hi, person who works at BIG who is reading this. Pay your staff better. Be a good example of more than diagrams.
You really think a person at BIG who has that type of decision making ability is reading this?
Patrimetric has been known to frequent the forum.
Right ... (s)he is probably researching ways to make interns even more miserable in their spare time...
I believe most firms google themselves from time to time, and Archinext is one of the better known Architecture websites, so yeah, I do think so.
Yeah, but they won't give a rat's ass - there are plenty of willing trust fund baby interns they can lay their hands on.
Maybe try negotiating for more money by showing them data that the wage being offered doesn't cover basic living expenses in the city. I'd be interested in hearing how they respond to that.
Will they speak the unspoken truth that they as starchitects don't feel compelled to offer a living wage because there are plenty of rich kids willing and available to fill their intern positions?
I've done exactly this. Show them relevant salary info and see how they react.
How'd they react?
I got exactly what I asked for, which was the average intern salary in my jurisdiction (of available salaries anyway).
Bjarke’s name on your resume is not worth paying for.
Thanks to everyone for the comments! Even the ones that reveal deep anger management issues. I did engage in trying to get a better offer. Nevertheless, they see payment, not as salary, but a compensation for experience. I'm not sure if it might be a common practice in Denmark, I have seen some similar Job descriptions in other architecture firms in the region. Anyway. It is how it is. I agree that they are not worth of my time. There are better options out there.
Take pride in the fact that they wanted you.
There is no anger issues in any of the above comments. Feel proud to say no to slavery.
"payment, not as salary, but a compensation for experience" sounds like a crock of shit to me.
Take pride in the fact that you told them to go punt, and you didn't fall for their shit.
That too.
There are a couple of good things you can learn when you work for star architects: one, you come to the point of demystifying that kind of trajectory. The other is, that you learn about high-level creative marketing personnel and how much more important, than you, those people are to your boss.
Sometimes they have opposing effects on you.