I've narrowed down my decision for where I'll begin my M.Arch degree this summer to UMich Taubman College and Penn Weitzman School of Design. I have an art history degree from a small liberal arts college, and have no architecture background.
I had the chance to visit both schools, and honestly liked what I saw more at Michigan than I did at Penn. The studios are bigger and more well-equipped, and people generally seemed friendlier. I like that the program is on the bigger side, which comes with a breadth of faculty to choose from. This feels important for me since I'm not totally certain where my design sensibility or style lies. I also appreciate that the 3g students are their own cohort for the first year, before being mixed in with the other students.
On the other hand, Penn's faculty, resources, name, and connections to the northeast are hard to deny. I live in Brooklyn now and plan to move back to NYC after completing my degree, and worry that would be more of a challenge at UMich. The main thing that gives me pause about Penn is its emphasis on digital computation methods and parametrics...this isn't really my interest and I worry that I would struggle to keep up given I have no background in architecture.
Finally, the location in Philadelphia and Ivy League prestige are difficult for me turn down. Does anyone have any sense for how much better the career prospects are for Penn over Michigan grads? Will I regret forgoing the opportunity to attend Penn?
Also, Michigan gave me a generous scholarship and I wouldn't have to take out any loans, whereas I would with Penn- although this isn't a deciding factor for me.
If anyone has any advice, it would be much appreciated!
Non Sequitur
Apr 12, 22 1:44 pm
"Also, Michigan gave me a generous scholarship and I wouldn't have to take out any loans, whereas I would with Penn- although this isn't a deciding factor for me. "
It should be. QED.
natematt
Apr 12, 22 3:40 pm
Depends how rich they are. If they don't have debt either way then who cares...
reallynotmyname
Apr 12, 22 3:14 pm
Some effort on your part to build a good portfolio of work and leverage the U.Mich network in NYC will mitigate the lack of any supposed Ivy prestige. The extra cash in your pocket each month from not having loan debt will really help you make a go of it as a young architect in NYC.
natematt
Apr 12, 22 3:48 pm
With Harvard as the exception, I don't think anyone would bat an eye at hiring someone from any top 20 school over an Ivy league grad if the portfolio is better. That's really it. Architecture has a lot different evidence of quality coming out of school than most professions, so the value of a school brand is much more muted.
If the loans really have no impact, they should go to the school they like better. If the loans actually mean they will be in debt they should seriously consider it a factor and probably chose the cheaper school, simple as that. If they really just want to say they went to an ivy to impress all their non-architecture friends... that's fine too.
reallynotmyname
Apr 12, 22 5:28 pm
I might feel differently if there was evidence of a really great fit between the OP's stated interests and Penn's pedagogy, but there isn't. The way they tell it, the OP risks getting Penn's intangible benefits at the cost of enduring a curriculum that they won't like as much as UMich.'s.
natematt
Apr 12, 22 7:56 pm
Exactly. The only thing they are saying that points to Pen is they want to go to an Ivy. I think this is a particularly weak argument in architecture, but not something they would necessarily know coming from another field.
dannyortega1
Apr 13, 22 11:11 am
I am a UPenn. student here (M.Arch 2022). I'd personally say you should always take the money over anything else. No prestige is worth the cost of loans, which are debilitating. Penn. is also the least Ivy League school there is. That being said, I came to Penn because I received the highest amount of scholarship over all of the schools I got into (including UMich).
Being at Penn. for three years, I certainly agree that the pedagogy and curriculum does focus on computation. I wasn't great with computation when I started and I certainly gained a lot of knowledge in that regard. I also think you wouldn't gain that opportunity like that anywhere else. UPenn makes you take 'Digiblast' in the summer, which all students (whether architecture or non-architecture background: non architecture background students have a longer summer course) learn all the basics to 3D modeling, parametric modeling, rendering, and such. In my mind, this is one of the ways ensuring all students gain the necessary knowledge and get up to par with today's computational needs.
Although Penn focuses on computation, I don't think it's the only thing it focuses. I tend to think that they teach the tools you need in order to create what you want to do with architecture. For example, you don't want to debilitate your idea in your project because you don't know how to make it.
UMich. and Penn. are both great graduate schools and they both offer great outlooks for careers afterwards. In my instance, I chose Penn. over UMich., and I don't regret it (but scholarships was a factor)!
Aside from schools, I love Philly! It's a great city. Ann Arbor has a different vibe since it's a college town. Not to say that Ann Arbor isn't a great city.
jcole00
Apr 13, 22 12:37 pm
Thanks so much for your response, this is super helpful! Do you feel like a good amount of students in your program are at Penn for its focus on computation?
jcole00
Apr 13, 22 12:38 pm
Also, I'm wondering if you actually have time to explore Philly and take advantage of being in the city while in school. I definitely care about location but I'm not sure how much I should let it sway my decision considering I'll probably be in the studio most of the time anyway. How's the social life / sense of community at Penn?
dannyortega1
Apr 13, 22 2:20 pm
It's hard to say exactly. I think most of my colleagues would say that they wanted to better their skills in computation (i.e. get better skills in 3D modeling, rendering, etc.) and design in general. I wouldn't say that they specifically wanted to focus and research into such like some of our professors. They're certainly a lot of great professors that focus on otherwise like Eduardo Rega, Nate Hume, Brian DeLuna, Simon Kim, Ferda Kolatan and others that aren't focused on computation per se, but architectural design in some aspects. I would look at their profiles and recent work in Pressing Matters to get a better gist.
dannyortega1
Apr 13, 22 2:25 pm
Yeah for sure! Grad school shouldn't always be about laboring in studio all the time and that is something that I have picked up at Penn (workload is also dependent on the studio so I should always ask around). In terms of school life, we host weekly happy hours at Meyerson and other community events. Last week, we had our yearly Beaux Arts Ball which was super fun! A lot of our events has been in a hiatus in recent years due to COVID, but there is certainly a lot of school events that the design school hosts specifically for gathering! Philly is lovely, especially in the spring and fall. New York and DC are also a just a quick train ride/ bus away.
starling
Apr 18, 22 10:58 am
1000% take the scholarship. How is this even a question?
forzametro
Apr 19, 22 2:16 pm
Ten years ago, I was in the exact same position as the OP. Being an art history grad from a small liberal arts college, I chose Michigan over Penn because I found that Michigan's variety of pedagogies to be enticing and would allow for me to explore the discipline to a much greater extent than elsewhere. To that point, while I can't speak for the faculty at Penn, the faculty at Michigan is fantastic. You will learn much from them and you will get to do so in a supportive and encouraging environment.
If you matriculate to Michigan, you will be part of the 3G+ cohort, which not only allows you to learn in a small student-teacher environment, you will also make very good friends there. It cannot be stressed enough how much it means to have supportive friends when you are going through something as demanding as an MArch program. Moreover, having great friends makes exploring the (small but mighty) city of Ann Arbor all the more enjoyable.
Lastly, the Michigan degree does carry weight in New York City. There are scores of Michigan alums here, many with their own practices. We watch out for one another and do what we can to help other succeed.
Regardless of whether you choose Michigan or Penn, you have two great options before you. Best of luck!
Hi all,
I've narrowed down my decision for where I'll begin my M.Arch degree this summer to UMich Taubman College and Penn Weitzman School of Design. I have an art history degree from a small liberal arts college, and have no architecture background.
I had the chance to visit both schools, and honestly liked what I saw more at Michigan than I did at Penn. The studios are bigger and more well-equipped, and people generally seemed friendlier. I like that the program is on the bigger side, which comes with a breadth of faculty to choose from. This feels important for me since I'm not totally certain where my design sensibility or style lies. I also appreciate that the 3g students are their own cohort for the first year, before being mixed in with the other students.
On the other hand, Penn's faculty, resources, name, and connections to the northeast are hard to deny. I live in Brooklyn now and plan to move back to NYC after completing my degree, and worry that would be more of a challenge at UMich. The main thing that gives me pause about Penn is its emphasis on digital computation methods and parametrics...this isn't really my interest and I worry that I would struggle to keep up given I have no background in architecture.
Finally, the location in Philadelphia and Ivy League prestige are difficult for me turn down. Does anyone have any sense for how much better the career prospects are for Penn over Michigan grads? Will I regret forgoing the opportunity to attend Penn?
Also, Michigan gave me a generous scholarship and I wouldn't have to take out any loans, whereas I would with Penn- although this isn't a deciding factor for me.
If anyone has any advice, it would be much appreciated!
"Also, Michigan gave me a generous scholarship and I wouldn't have to take out any loans, whereas I would with Penn- although this isn't a deciding factor for me. "
It should be. QED.
Depends how rich they are. If they don't have debt either way then who cares...
Some effort on your part to build a good portfolio of work and leverage the U.Mich network in NYC will mitigate the lack of any supposed Ivy prestige. The extra cash in your pocket each month from not having loan debt will really help you make a go of it as a young architect in NYC.
With Harvard as the exception, I don't think anyone would bat an eye at hiring someone from any top 20 school over an Ivy league grad if the portfolio is better. That's really it. Architecture has a lot different evidence of quality coming out of school than most professions, so the value of a school brand is much more muted.
If the loans really have no impact, they should go to the school they like better. If the loans actually mean they will be in debt they should seriously consider it a factor and probably chose the cheaper school, simple as that. If they really just want to say they went to an ivy to impress all their non-architecture friends... that's fine too.
I might feel differently if there was evidence of a really great fit between the OP's stated interests and Penn's pedagogy, but there isn't. The way they tell it, the OP risks getting Penn's intangible benefits at the cost of enduring a curriculum that they won't like as much as UMich.'s.
Exactly. The only thing they are saying that points to Pen is they want to go to an Ivy. I think this is a particularly weak argument in architecture, but not something they would necessarily know coming from another field.
I am a UPenn. student here (M.Arch 2022). I'd personally say you should always take the money over anything else. No prestige is worth the cost of loans, which are debilitating. Penn. is also the least Ivy League school there is. That being said, I came to Penn because I received the highest amount of scholarship over all of the schools I got into (including UMich).
Being at Penn. for three years, I certainly agree that the pedagogy and curriculum does focus on computation. I wasn't great with computation when I started and I certainly gained a lot of knowledge in that regard. I also think you wouldn't gain that opportunity like that anywhere else. UPenn makes you take 'Digiblast' in the summer, which all students (whether architecture or non-architecture background: non architecture background students have a longer summer course) learn all the basics to 3D modeling, parametric modeling, rendering, and such. In my mind, this is one of the ways ensuring all students gain the necessary knowledge and get up to par with today's computational needs.
Although Penn focuses on computation, I don't think it's the only thing it focuses. I tend to think that they teach the tools you need in order to create what you want to do with architecture. For example, you don't want to debilitate your idea in your project because you don't know how to make it.
UMich. and Penn. are both great graduate schools and they both offer great outlooks for careers afterwards. In my instance, I chose Penn. over UMich., and I don't regret it (but scholarships was a factor)!
Aside from schools, I love Philly! It's a great city. Ann Arbor has a different vibe since it's a college town. Not to say that Ann Arbor isn't a great city.
Thanks so much for your response, this is super helpful! Do you feel like a good amount of students in your program are at Penn for its focus on computation?
Also, I'm wondering if you actually have time to explore Philly and take advantage of being in the city while in school. I definitely care about location but I'm not sure how much I should let it sway my decision considering I'll probably be in the studio most of the time anyway. How's the social life / sense of community at Penn?
It's hard to say exactly. I think most of my colleagues would say that they wanted to better their skills in computation (i.e. get better skills in 3D modeling, rendering, etc.) and design in general. I wouldn't say that they specifically wanted to focus and research into such like some of our professors. They're certainly a lot of great professors that focus on otherwise like Eduardo Rega, Nate Hume, Brian DeLuna, Simon Kim, Ferda Kolatan and others that aren't focused on computation per se, but architectural design in some aspects. I would look at their profiles and recent work in Pressing Matters to get a better gist.
Yeah for sure! Grad school shouldn't always be about laboring in studio all the time and that is something that I have picked up at Penn (workload is also dependent on the studio so I should always ask around). In terms of school life, we host weekly happy hours at Meyerson and other community events. Last week, we had our yearly Beaux Arts Ball which was super fun! A lot of our events has been in a hiatus in recent years due to COVID, but there is certainly a lot of school events that the design school hosts specifically for gathering! Philly is lovely, especially in the spring and fall. New York and DC are also a just a quick train ride/ bus away.
1000% take the scholarship. How is this even a question?
Ten years ago, I was in the exact same position as the OP. Being an art history grad from a small liberal arts college, I chose Michigan over Penn because I found that Michigan's variety of pedagogies to be enticing and would allow for me to explore the discipline to a much greater extent than elsewhere. To that point, while I can't speak for the faculty at Penn, the faculty at Michigan is fantastic. You will learn much from them and you will get to do so in a supportive and encouraging environment.
If you matriculate to Michigan, you will be part of the 3G+ cohort, which not only allows you to learn in a small student-teacher environment, you will also make very good friends there. It cannot be stressed enough how much it means to have supportive friends when you are going through something as demanding as an MArch program. Moreover, having great friends makes exploring the (small but mighty) city of Ann Arbor all the more enjoyable.
Lastly, the Michigan degree does carry weight in New York City. There are scores of Michigan alums here, many with their own practices. We watch out for one another and do what we can to help other succeed.
Regardless of whether you choose Michigan or Penn, you have two great options before you. Best of luck!