I am writing this out of pure frustration with the permitting process in the City of LA as a result of COVID shut downs. With COVID now in the rear view mirror for all other facets of life in LA, LADBS and their associated departments remain completely closed to the public. This has created a truly unworkable situation for us here in LA and if for nothing else, I'm here to vent. Simple permitting tasks that used to be over the counter are now taking 4-6 months with ZERO communication possible with city employees. They have completely shut off all access to our tax funded civil employees and they continue to hide behind the veil of COVID and their WFH computer screens at the expense of normal business. Closing out our current permits, collecting final payment, and moving on to new projects is critical for the livelihood of small firms like mine and while all other private businesses have managed to operate normally during these tough times, the City has completely shut down.
I have emailed plan check engineers on my projects with ZERO response. I have CC'ed supervisors. I DM'ed mayor Garcetti on social media. All with zero progress and not a single response. I have paid my plan check fees and business taxes and all I'm left with is a huge burden, a client management nightmare, and a plastic bin in the lobby where I leave drawings only to disappear into the ether. I don't expect anyone here to have a solution, as many of my colleagues express the same frustration, but it does help to hear that I am not the only one out there feeling so powerless and frustrated that I am taking the time to type on a forum that I didn't even have an account for the stress-induced sleepless hours of 2 AM last night.
Thanks for listening and if any of you are foolish enough to write a proposal for work in LA this week, please mark it up 25%-50% for the hassle. You've been warned.
proto
Jul 13, 21 1:47 pm
City of SD was similar during WFH, esp pre-digital submissions (they switched during COVID)
I had to harangue the reviewers to get any responses, much less timely ones. The bureaucracy seemed to compound during this period. Reviewers seemed particularly allergic to phone calls, but, with some persistence, I was able to get someone on the phone to cut out some of the pedantic items that would produce multiple review cycles. With submissions taking weeks to turn around, another review cycle was very frustrating for dumb items (ie, asking for info that was already provided; or insisting that info appear in one place vs another; or requiring over-documentation to CYA on GC's seeing info.; etc..)
SneakyPete
Jul 13, 21 1:47 pm
Sounds like grounds for a lawsuit. You're being damaged financially.
proto
Jul 13, 21 1:52 pm
My client spent more on my jurisdictional time than my design time [admittedly split btwn Coastal Review & Permit Review; only Permit Review was during the pandemic]. We are hourly so we were covered, but my client got f*cking hosed. Now he's getting hosed by construction costs. He's had some salty words for the process. If he weren't so far into it, he'd have bailed...Luckily, he likes us & our work so the ire hasn't been directed at us. I have discounted some of our fees because it's been so ridiculous. I just felt bad for him.
tduds
Jul 13, 21 2:21 pm
I had a very small project go through LADBS at the end of last year & it was a nightmare. Something like 4-5 months for a few thousand square foot TI, and a huge portion of that time was due to plans sitting in quarantine between desks. There's no reason, imo, for any jurisdiction (and especially a large jurisdiction like LA) to still be working with paper plans.
whistler
Jul 13, 21 4:49 pm
Same here, just brutal!
citizen
Jul 13, 21 9:39 pm
I've heard of this in smaller cities like South Pas, but didn't know that the Big Dog was as bad as this. The raised design fees seem wise under the circumstances, along with a slightly more diplomatic version of Moire's paragraphs to explain the situation. Because most clients aren't like Proto's; they'll blame us as they often do.
sameolddoctor
Jul 14, 21 2:11 pm
For the exorbitant salaries and benefits City employees are paid, this is ridiculous. And yes, from our taxes.
I have a few projects in permitting in LA and they are going far better than the other ones.
haruki
Oct 7, 21 5:15 pm
The LADBS has me seriously thinking that it might not possible to continue on as an architect in Los Angeles. They aren't issuing permits. Their bureaucratic intransigence was terrible in the best of times now it kills projects.
Orhan Ayyüce
Oct 7, 21 6:25 pm
Word with all the above comments on LADBS!!!
Wilma Buttfit
Oct 7, 21 7:46 pm
I work with many jurisdictions, LABDS is one of the better ones honestly. :(
Josh Mings
Oct 8, 21 9:21 am
Non-LA related, but this has been the case in many jurisdictions I've worked with in the last 2 years. While not as bad as LA sounds, Chicago has been lagging on permits too - although they recently allowed overtime for plan reviewers so hopefully it gets better. Definitely had to do a run-around to the Deputy Commish on a couple projects to get them through.
Also, don't know why but my experience was better in red states. Had no problems talking to inspectors or the building department on my project in Kentucky.
greenlander1
Nov 10, 21 6:12 pm
Not in City of LA, but been dealing w County and smaller jurisdictions and pretty painful. I have one tiny project that I thought would be 2 mo plan check and will be 6 mo.
The third party plan checkers (dont remember seeing so many of them) muck things up even more.
I am writing this out of pure frustration with the permitting process in the City of LA as a result of COVID shut downs. With COVID now in the rear view mirror for all other facets of life in LA, LADBS and their associated departments remain completely closed to the public. This has created a truly unworkable situation for us here in LA and if for nothing else, I'm here to vent. Simple permitting tasks that used to be over the counter are now taking 4-6 months with ZERO communication possible with city employees. They have completely shut off all access to our tax funded civil employees and they continue to hide behind the veil of COVID and their WFH computer screens at the expense of normal business. Closing out our current permits, collecting final payment, and moving on to new projects is critical for the livelihood of small firms like mine and while all other private businesses have managed to operate normally during these tough times, the City has completely shut down.
I have emailed plan check engineers on my projects with ZERO response. I have CC'ed supervisors. I DM'ed mayor Garcetti on social media. All with zero progress and not a single response. I have paid my plan check fees and business taxes and all I'm left with is a huge burden, a client management nightmare, and a plastic bin in the lobby where I leave drawings only to disappear into the ether. I don't expect anyone here to have a solution, as many of my colleagues express the same frustration, but it does help to hear that I am not the only one out there feeling so powerless and frustrated that I am taking the time to type on a forum that I didn't even have an account for the stress-induced sleepless hours of 2 AM last night.
Thanks for listening and if any of you are foolish enough to write a proposal for work in LA this week, please mark it up 25%-50% for the hassle. You've been warned.
City of SD was similar during WFH, esp pre-digital submissions (they switched during COVID)
I had to harangue the reviewers to get any responses, much less timely ones. The bureaucracy seemed to compound during this period. Reviewers seemed particularly allergic to phone calls, but, with some persistence, I was able to get someone on the phone to cut out some of the pedantic items that would produce multiple review cycles. With submissions taking weeks to turn around, another review cycle was very frustrating for dumb items (ie, asking for info that was already provided; or insisting that info appear in one place vs another; or requiring over-documentation to CYA on GC's seeing info.; etc..)
Sounds like grounds for a lawsuit. You're being damaged financially.
My client spent more on my jurisdictional time than my design time [admittedly split btwn Coastal Review & Permit Review; only Permit Review was during the pandemic]. We are hourly so we were covered, but my client got f*cking hosed. Now he's getting hosed by construction costs. He's had some salty words for the process. If he weren't so far into it, he'd have bailed...Luckily, he likes us & our work so the ire hasn't been directed at us. I have discounted some of our fees because it's been so ridiculous. I just felt bad for him.
I had a very small project go through LADBS at the end of last year & it was a nightmare. Something like 4-5 months for a few thousand square foot TI, and a huge portion of that time was due to plans sitting in quarantine between desks. There's no reason, imo, for any jurisdiction (and especially a large jurisdiction like LA) to still be working with paper plans.
Same here, just brutal!
I've heard of this in smaller cities like South Pas, but didn't know that the Big Dog was as bad as this. The raised design fees seem wise under the circumstances, along with a slightly more diplomatic version of Moire's paragraphs to explain the situation. Because most clients aren't like Proto's; they'll blame us as they often do.
For the exorbitant salaries and benefits City employees are paid, this is ridiculous. And yes, from our taxes.
https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/los-angeles/
I have a few projects in permitting in LA and they are going far better than the other ones.
The LADBS has me seriously thinking that it might not possible to continue on as an architect in Los Angeles. They aren't issuing permits. Their bureaucratic intransigence was terrible in the best of times now it kills projects.
Word with all the above comments on LADBS!!!
I work with many jurisdictions, LABDS is one of the better ones honestly. :(
Non-LA related, but this has been the case in many jurisdictions I've worked with in the last 2 years. While not as bad as LA sounds, Chicago has been lagging on permits too - although they recently allowed overtime for plan reviewers so hopefully it gets better. Definitely had to do a run-around to the Deputy Commish on a couple projects to get them through.
Also, don't know why but my experience was better in red states. Had no problems talking to inspectors or the building department on my project in Kentucky.
Not in City of LA, but been dealing w County and smaller jurisdictions and pretty painful. I have one tiny project that I thought would be 2 mo plan check and will be 6 mo.
The third party plan checkers (dont remember seeing so many of them) muck things up even more.