My firm is still close to 100% remote, and I hate it. Nobody seems to be in a hurry to start working in person again, despite minimal covid risk now with widely available vaccines and, in my opinion, big potential upsides for creativity, productivity, and camaraderie.
What's happening in other offices?
Non Sequitur
May 25, 21 4:08 pm
Important to note your location for context.
My office (Frozen Canadian Capital) opened back to everyone working in-person in the office in July/August of 2020 but then we were forced by the government to go back to work from home jan-feb 2021... then again mid march to current day. Likely a return to office life in july but it's unknown how that will work if most daycamps/daycares remain closed.
bowling_ball
May 25, 21 5:31 pm
Not to question you, but if Ontario is like Manitoba, then the gathering restrictions set forth by the government don't apply to workplaces. My firm made the decision to send everybody home from April to July last year, but we've been back in the office ever since. At least here, there's never been restrictions on employees working in offices.
Non Sequitur
May 25, 21 5:34 pm
BB, provincial stay at home order since mid-march here. We're only expected to leave our homes for essential things or are essential workers. This is different than the rules pre-xmas.
But my office has always been "open" to those who can't work from home. I've gone in after hours a few times. The rule here is if you can WFH, then your employer is obligated to do that.
Mountain Magic
May 25, 21 4:22 pm
Thanks ... I'm in a big city on the U.S. west coast.
zonker
May 25, 21 4:22 pm
Better coordination in the actual office, work is more seamless. - we might be going back to office (San Francisco) in June
gibbost
May 25, 21 4:28 pm
Officially transitioning back to all staff in the office June 1. However, we will get a flex day of our choosing each week where we can still work from home. I would guess that nearly 90% of our office went to WFH starting last March--myself included. (Midwest US)
Chad Miller
May 25, 21 4:32 pm
We never really stopped coming into the office. We had WFH for 4 weeks. Ever since we've all been back in the office. I was in every day anyways since I was the only one in the office.
Wilma Buttfit
May 25, 21 6:10 pm
All = just you. ?
Chad Miller
May 25, 21 6:22 pm
Nope. Me plus ten other people.
My previous post was a bit confusing. I was in the office during the WFH order because I was only one in the office and thus allowed.
Wilma Buttfit
May 26, 21 12:39 pm
I can't read sometimes.
square.
May 25, 21 5:37 pm
big potential upsides for creativity, productivity, and camaraderie.
i think this is pretty debatable, but like you said opinion, and i think there are takes all over the place on this one. personally i don't miss much about the office, at all.
curious- what is your position at your firm?
Mountain Magic
May 25, 21 6:59 pm
What's the premise of your question?
square.
May 25, 21 7:12 pm
there's no "premise." i'm just curious if you're a designer, pm, owner, etc.
Everyday Architect
May 25, 21 7:18 pm
I think one of the things the WFH situation has shown is that people who are typically producing at their computers are able to be quite productive at home, and those that are usually in meetings (or maybe more specifically managing and telling others what to do), are wanting to get back into the office because they feel productivity suffers when they can't look over your shoulder. But yeah, debatable for sure.
I'm torn between WFH and in the office. There are definite things I like about WFH and times where I feel more productive. But it seems like just as often I wish I could turn to the people next to me in the office to figure out something without trying to get everyone on a zoom call where half of them are trying to multitask on something else. My tasks are probably pretty evenly split between stuff I do by myself with my head down and needing to communicate with other people on.
We aren't fully back in the office and probably won't be until after Labor Day, but I anticipate working something like 75% in the office and 25% from home. Sometimes it might be an entire week or weeks from home, other times it might be a complete month at the office ... all depending on my workload at the time. All indications from leadership is that they're willing to allow us the flexibility we want.
square.
May 26, 21 8:59 am
interesting ea- i'm probably the opposite, anticipating 25% in office and 75% at home, which also corresponds to the type of work like you're saying. although i don't really feel the need to be able to lean over and ask anything.. i've found digital communication sufficient enough, and worth the trade off, so to speak, although my pm might feel differently.
i also really appreciate the ability to focus at home; in our office space we were packed like sardines, and i do not miss being able to hear every conversation about every project, all day.
natematt
May 26, 21 4:58 pm
@Everyday Architect. It's all about accountability and trust. Employers don't trust their employees, that's why there has always been such a strong push against more WFH. Did they have good reason not to... sometimes yes. But having been forced to do things this way, I think it should open their eyes, and if you can't learn how to keep your employees accountable working from home, maybe you should re-evaluate if you are actually able to do it in the office. Most of the people I wouldn't trust at home that I've worked with I don't trust to get anything done in the office either.
Everyday Architect
May 26, 21 7:16 pm
Being in the office more in my case does two things for me. First, it gets me quicker access to people I need information from. A lot of my job is filling in the pieces where people don't know what they don't know. In order to fill in those pieces, I need to have conversations with them about what they know (or what they think they know), and what they don't know so they can make decisions I need them to make. I can do this remotely (and have for many project teams over the years that were in different office locations from me), but it is faster in person. So it's just more efficient for me to get this work done in person.
Second, it allows me to be available more readily for drop in questions and problem solving sessions. I fight to keep my desk away from the windows and corners and more centrally located where people are always coming and going. I'm a firm resource and you'd be surprised at how many times people "suddenly remember" something they need to ask me about while they're on the way to get coffee and they see me at my desk. No one sees me at my desk at home.
But I also don't want to be constantly interrupted so being able to stay home when I need to get something done is great too. Sometimes I've checked out a small conference room to hide out in so I can focus on a task, but it's just not the same as being at my monitors with my other resources around me. I used to not like working from home for this reason, but now that I've figure out my home setup out of necessity, I can continue with it out of convenience at times when it suits me.
thatsthat
May 26, 21 10:17 pm
EA, you could not have put it better. This is exactly my situation. I need to be around to be a resource for others, but also I need time alone uninterrupted to produce. I love working from home when I need that uninterrupted time, but it is so hard to get people to make the decisions I need if I’m not seeing them physically in person.
Mountain Magic
May 25, 21 7:31 pm
there's no "premise." i'm just curious if you're a designer, pm, owner, etc
It sounds like the premise is "Designer's perspective on WFH is xxx"
"PM's perpsective is yyy"
"Owner's perpsective is zzz"
What are you saying about the difference in perspective among these different positions?
square.
May 26, 21 8:55 am
i don't believe i've said anything? why so defensive? either share something or move on.
Peter Normand
May 26, 21 9:42 am
"What are you saying about the difference in perspective among these different positions?" I think the folks who end up in those different roles have different personalities and ways of interacting with colleagues. There are probably exceptions but certain types of folks function well in a social environment and may be ideal as a manager where as a person who can do excellent focused detailed work (like specifications writing) probably does better with less social distractions.
RJ87
May 26, 21 10:16 am
The perspective from those positions is different. That's just how the economics of business works, different roles are rewarded for accomplishing different tasks. It's a fair question to ask which perspective you approach WFH from.
To me it seems like someone primarily on a Maker's Schedule would be comfortable with remote work, while someone on a Manager's Schedule would rather be in an office setting. As architects we often switch between the two, but not in equal proportions, so it makes sense that the perspective would differ depending on your role in the firm.
Mountain Magic
May 26, 21 5:14 pm
Interesting, yeah I would say I'm roughly 2/3 maker (drafting/production) and 1/3 manager. And sure, on any given drafting task I can probably get it done faster in my highly controlled and quiet home environment - but when you start to think about the longer arc of getting really good at Revit and learning the art and science of building design and construction - I don't think slack and zoom are any match for the alchemy of smart people in a room together.
Everyday Architect
May 26, 21 7:22 pm
I'm a mix of maker and manager too. Mostly maker, but at times I need to have a manager schedule. I've never thought about it, but I do lose like half a day when I have a meeting thrown in mid morning or mid afternoon. I've started doing an office hours thing so people can drop in with questions, etc. and not feel like they are interrupting me. Kind of like he outlines for advising other startups, except I'm not scheduling appointments ... it's all just drop in. It's worked better than I was expecting it to though not always used and I just work on other things. It might be something I take back to the office when we do get back more.
rcz1001
May 27, 21 12:23 am
There is going to be inherent differences in perspective. It depends on what your role and duty/function is. If you are mostly CAD/BIM production, you will have a different point of view then if your role is one that is mostly working with clients, stakeholders, and other stuff generally done in person, site-visits, etc. It will be different depending on what you do. It depends on what you are doing. I suspect some hybrid combination of WFH and in-office is going to be something people will like but I can not see how it will look for all offices.
RJ87
May 27, 21 10:13 am
Not to mention the differences in financial incentives between production & ownership. Even a small percentage difference in office wide efficiency will make a big difference over the course of a year to take home pay for leadership.
RJ87
May 27, 21 10:21 am
It will also be interesting how firms manage the decision. You won't be able to make everyone happy either way. So it will come down to the comparative advantage of the entire firm. Some people will be told tough luck & may leave as a result. It will balance out over time.
rcz1001
May 27, 21 2:25 pm
Indeed.
tduds
May 27, 21 4:14 pm
EA I really like the 'office hours' idea. I'll have to remember that if/when I ever become important enough to have people who need to ask me questions.
rcz1001
May 27, 21 4:26 pm
Sounds like a great idea. Why can't we do that with clients........
thatsthat
May 27, 21 5:55 pm
EA, I’d like to know more about your office hours. How do you communicate when you are available, and set/keep that boundary?
Everyday Architect
May 27, 21 6:14 pm
I think it's a balancing act (the office hours thing) if I'm being honest. There are a handful of us (basically the unofficial technical experts, code experts, QA/QC people) that have always had an approachable "open-door" policy when in the office. People drop by our desks to ask questions whenever they feel like they can, and we try to be as approachable as possible because we'd rather have people feel comfortable asking the question.
In person it's easy to see if I'm at my desk and even to gauge if I'm really busy or might have time to field a question without needing to interrupt me (Do I look like I'm frantically working on a deadline? Do I have headphones in trying to block out distractions? Am I on a phone call?). That's basically impossible when you can't see me at my desk.
Early in the pandemic the question was raised about whether or not we were still all approachable, but more importantly whether staff felt like they could still approach us. Simply telling people it was ok to call or message us anytime didn't feel sufficient to handle the fears of staff that might be shy, new, or who may not know our personalities as well to feel comfortable potentially interrupting us. So we thought putting together weekly office hours was a good idea to lower that fear threshold. They don't need to worry about interrupting us because we set the time aside. We don't all make it every week, but they are at least guaranteed someone will be there.
The other side of that is we still want people to feel like they can reach out whenever and not have to wait for the office hours. But we were worried that by creating office hours, some people might feel like they can't reach out to us whenever, and that they'd *need* to wait for the office hours. That's the part that I think is maybe more of the balancing act. Are we still approachable if it looks like the only time we have to answer questions is an hour each week?
So when we started the office hours, we also opened up a slack/zoom channel to field these questions too, and other people can chime in with help or advice too. I think that plus us just being our usual approachable selves has created a good culture of being able to feel like you can still ask questions whenever you need to, but also allow people who might not feel comfortable doing that to jump into the office hours or slack/zoom channel.
The side bonus for the office hours is that when there are those weeks where no one shows up, we still have the time to turn off our cameras and mics and answer emails or something. More commonly though, we use it as an unofficial happy hour to share concerns, mentor each other, or simply talk about the local sports ball or whatever and catch up.
Peter Normand
May 26, 21 9:37 am
I am ready for working in the office, my home is small so my work station is in the middle of my apartment and it is getting hard to establish boundaries between work time and home time. Also I find that management is stretching the expectations of when they can email and expect a reply. The work day had a start and an end pre Covid and now the start and end is less defined and covers a larger part of my time.
Also I have so many distractions at home, I think stepping away from my domestic life keeps my mind focused on work and and vice versa. I don't think multitasking (task switching) is my most productive mode, working from home creates an environment where task keep switching. Also would be nice to not run the AC at home all day and for those of us using a spare room for an office it would be nice to be able to sublet that out too.
Another thing is, in Chicago where I live and work, commuting in on the train gives you time to think about and plan the day, and I find that those days where I take a moment to make a list of top priorities and goals end up being more productive than when I drive in or start working the moment I wake up.
Finally I find it healthy to have a physical separation from work so subconsciously I can get out of office head space and get into home or community head space.
Obviously every person has different needs from their work life balance and I think flexibility is key, I would not want to be denied the chance to learn from and do good work with colleagues who need to take care of children or elderly parents and can not be in an office all of the time. I think flexibility and work from home will play a bigger role but not the dominant one in architecture and many other professions.
Over and OUT
Peter N
Mountain Magic
May 26, 21 11:06 am
It's interesting to think about what the ideal balance would be - even for someone like me who is not a big fan of WFH, I could see maybe wanting to make a regular pattern of WFH on say Mondays and Wednesdays. Or better yet, two weeks in the city and two weeks at my cabin in the mountains (that I hope to have someday)
Everyday Architect
May 26, 21 7:30 pm
I think I'm also a person that benefits from some separation of work and home. I've had to become more rigid in my switching off home and switching on work, and then back again. Otherwise I'm always trying to take care of that thing in the garage, and then back to answer that email, etc. I don't miss my commute, but then sometimes I do miss my commute for that time to transition between work and home. Like I said above, I'm kind of torn between the two and look forward to finding the right balance for me.
I've also noticed a stretching of the work day. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing as long as the expectations are tempered with reality. We've had a lot of people sharing parenting duties with their partner that will not be available all morning because that's when they have kid duty, ,but then work later into the evenings. It's worked just find when the team understands the reality of the situation and knows what to expect. The problems have happened when you may not understand that an email at 9pm for that person is normal and not something to get all worried about. Or that if you need an answer for something at 10 am, it's not going to happen unless you ask for it the evening before.
RJ87
May 26, 21 10:10 am
I never stopped going into the office in FL, but everyone else returned a few months ago. Management was patient with individual timelines & never forced anyone back on a certain day, but it was clear that working from home was not a permanent situation & employees were expected back in the office as soon as their individual situations allowed. They're big on firm memory / being able to ask people questions easily if you've got a question. It was also next to impossible to train new employees.
bowling_ball
May 26, 21 11:12 am
For those of you who would prefer to work from home permanently: would you accept a reduction in salary now that you don't have to pay to commute/parking? That all of your meals are right there in your kitchen?
In exchange, your employer pays for your Internet and cellphone, and provides you the equipment you need to do your job - computer and tasks chair, etc...
(Before anybody reacts, no we're not contemplating this, it's just a question that popped up in my mind after reading some of these comments....)
square.
May 26, 21 11:16 am
no- i am no longer provided free snacks or coffee or beers. in terms of commuting, some people used to bike (nearly "free" commuting), while others walked (completely free), and others took transit (not so free), but salaries weren't adjusted accordingly (we're in the city though so this is different per location). and like you said i'm expected to use my own equipment (though our office is starting to address that). lunches.. another strange one because i almost always brought my lunch from home, and now that i am home i still get the occasional lunch out in the neighborhood. so that cost hasn't changed at all.
in my mind, there are too many variables/individual choices that cancel each other out to justify cutting my salary.. at the end of the day i'm still doing the same work, and often more productively.
bowling_ball
May 26, 21 11:23 am
Thanks for the response. I agree with you that it would be too much to figure out on an individual level. But if you're an employee moving to a new company, don't be surprised if this is a tactic used by potential employers in the future if WFH really becomes a permanent thing
square.
May 26, 21 11:26 am
absolutely, would not surprise me- which is why i'm not moving any time soon!
SlammingMiruvor
May 26, 21 12:31 pm
I'd immediately ask what compensation I could expect by saving them overhead on physical office costs, or if they will be subsidizing my rent/mortgage.
sameolddoctor
May 26, 21 12:31 pm
It should be the opposite - WFH staff should be a paid a bit more, as the office is saving on overheads in a massive way.
Mountain Magic
May 26, 21 12:43 pm
No kidding. How much more are we spending on power and water these days? It's not trivial.
axonapoplectic
May 26, 21 4:29 pm
IMO, WFH staff should have reduced responsibilities or they become highly specialized, almost like consultants. If you aren’t coming into the office you don’t get to play a central role on projects.
natematt
May 26, 21 4:43 pm
@axonapoplectic
Kinda depends doesn't it? Different projects require different levels of in person involvement. Sometimes, i think this is fair, but if you're doing something that only takes one or two people, it's not that critical. I found this to be the case prior to covid, it's all dependent on the project, and what needs to be done. Realistically, I think most projects would do fine, or even better with most people doing a split part at home part at the office.
Everyday Architect
May 26, 21 7:41 pm
My firm sort of addressed the difference in costs working from home by adding some compensation to cover for internet and phone usage, or needing by buy additional equipment, etc. Rather than try to figure it out individually they added some money to our paychecks.
They also typically offer incentives to use mass transit, bike, or walk into the office and those all stopped as no one was using them (we always had to pay for our own parking). I used to take advantage of pre-tax dollars being put on a bus pass for me as well as a portion of that being matched by the office. So the overall effect for me was a (small) take-home pay raise to work from home that I don't expect to stay as we get back to the office.
I'd like to see some numbers on savings on overhead as more people work from home. I don't think there is a whole lot unless you move into a smaller space, or completely close the office for certain days. Otherwise, you still lease the same space, and still pay to condition and light it. There is probably some difference, but I don't see it being a lot until you get to the point where the office is closed.
Non Sequitur
May 27, 21 2:47 pm
Biggest cost savings to having me wfh, from my office’s POV, is that they did not have to purchase coffee.
SlammingMiruvor
May 27, 21 3:17 pm
@Everyday Architect;
I don't disagree, but I think opportunity matters. I've mostly worked for smaller firms, so 1-2 staff members not taking up space in the office absolutely could be taken up by others. At the end of the day, it makes growth a bit easier if some people are working from home.
One side too is that leases, mortgages, etc. have basically been a sunk cost the last 16 months and I bet owners are tired for paying for facilities going unused. It's not an easy answer. My perspective is that an owner asking me questions about lunch, or cost of commuting and using that to reduce my pay are not looking at the big picture, and to be frank, being penny pinching pricks. If they look at my expenses as an employee, and decide it's worth risking an employee to try and save a few cents an hour, that's likely not a firm I want to work for.
sameolddoctor
May 27, 21 5:15 pm
Also, for firms that do a lot of work overseas and have travel costs built into their fees, WFH has been a big boom. On the one hand, its hard to not have people on the ground to pound the pavement, and for co-ordination, but saving on flights and hotels ... priceless. And, obviously with WFH, its easier to get employees on late night and early morning conference calls
axonapoplectic
May 26, 21 11:24 am
been told unofficially that they want everyone back in person by beginning of September. I think the plan is to allow some occasional WFM depending on phase of project and/or project tasks.
I’ve hated working from home. I need physical separation from home and to have people around me to keep me focused on work. There are too many distractions if I am at home - especially having young kids who leave the house a mess. There’s always something to do - laundry that needs to be folded, dishes that need to be washed, yard needs work…
plus communication with coworkers has been difficult - especially on time sensitive things.
zonker
May 26, 21 11:44 am
with everyone in the office, there is no ghosting
natematt
May 26, 21 4:55 pm
My office has been WFH since two weeks prior to local mandate. And has at most had maybe 10/100 people back in the office at any time. We are not yet allowed to all go back, and the office is not in a rush. It will be at least a couple months.
I think they have been surprised at how efficiently they are actually able to keep people working at home, and I don't expect they will ever go back full staff full time in the office, probably 3x days a week and as needed.
This is convenient in that they did not have enough office space, so they will now be able to make things work with flexible desk setups.
Personally, I'll probably spend most of the next year working on a CA project with one other person, so I'm not in much of a rush to get back for any functional reason, except that I need somewhere to store samples...
My firm is still close to 100% remote, and I hate it. Nobody seems to be in a hurry to start working in person again, despite minimal covid risk now with widely available vaccines and, in my opinion, big potential upsides for creativity, productivity, and camaraderie.
What's happening in other offices?
Important to note your location for context.
My office (Frozen Canadian Capital) opened back to everyone working in-person in the office in July/August of 2020 but then we were forced by the government to go back to work from home jan-feb 2021... then again mid march to current day. Likely a return to office life in july but it's unknown how that will work if most daycamps/daycares remain closed.
Not to question you, but if Ontario is like Manitoba, then the gathering restrictions set forth by the government don't apply to workplaces. My firm made the decision to send everybody home from April to July last year, but we've been back in the office ever since. At least here, there's never been restrictions on employees working in offices.
BB, provincial stay at home order since mid-march here. We're only expected to leave our homes for essential things or are essential workers. This is different than the rules pre-xmas.
But my office has always been "open" to those who can't work from home. I've gone in after hours a few times. The rule here is if you can WFH, then your employer is obligated to do that.
Thanks ... I'm in a big city on the U.S. west coast.
Better coordination in the actual office, work is more seamless. - we might be going back to office (San Francisco) in June
Officially transitioning back to all staff in the office June 1. However, we will get a flex day of our choosing each week where we can still work from home. I would guess that nearly 90% of our office went to WFH starting last March--myself included. (Midwest US)
We never really stopped coming into the office. We had WFH for 4 weeks. Ever since we've all been back in the office. I was in every day anyways since I was the only one in the office.
All = just you. ?
Nope. Me plus ten other people.
My previous post was a bit confusing. I was in the office during the WFH order because I was only one in the office and thus allowed.
I can't read sometimes.
big potential upsides for creativity, productivity, and camaraderie.
i think this is pretty debatable, but like you said opinion, and i think there are takes all over the place on this one. personally i don't miss much about the office, at all.
curious- what is your position at your firm?
What's the premise of your question?
there's no "premise." i'm just curious if you're a designer, pm, owner, etc.
I think one of the things the WFH situation has shown is that people who are typically producing at their computers are able to be quite productive at home, and those that are usually in meetings (or maybe more specifically managing and telling others what to do), are wanting to get back into the office because they feel productivity suffers when they can't look over your shoulder. But yeah, debatable for sure.
I'm torn between WFH and in the office. There are definite things I like about WFH and times where I feel more productive. But it seems like just as often I wish I could turn to the people next to me in the office to figure out something without trying to get everyone on a zoom call where half of them are trying to multitask on something else. My tasks are probably pretty evenly split between stuff I do by myself with my head down and needing to communicate with other people on.
We aren't fully back in the office and probably won't be until after Labor Day, but I anticipate working something like 75% in the office and 25% from home. Sometimes it might be an entire week or weeks from home, other times it might be a complete month at the office ... all depending on my workload at the time. All indications from leadership is that they're willing to allow us the flexibility we want.
interesting ea- i'm probably the opposite, anticipating 25% in office and 75% at home, which also corresponds to the type of work like you're saying. although i don't really feel the need to be able to lean over and ask anything.. i've found digital communication sufficient enough, and worth the trade off, so to speak, although my pm might feel differently.
i also really appreciate the ability to focus at home; in our office space we were packed like sardines, and i do not miss being able to hear every conversation about every project, all day.
@Everyday Architect. It's all about accountability and trust. Employers don't trust their employees, that's why there has always been such a strong push against more WFH. Did they have good reason not to... sometimes yes. But having been forced to do things this way, I think it should open their eyes, and if you can't learn how to keep your employees accountable working from home, maybe you should re-evaluate if you are actually able to do it in the office. Most of the people I wouldn't trust at home that I've worked with I don't trust to get anything done in the office either.
Being in the office more in my case does two things for me. First, it gets me quicker access to people I need information from. A lot of my job is filling in the pieces where people don't know what they don't know. In order to fill in those pieces, I need to have conversations with them about what they know (or what they think they know), and what they don't know so they can make decisions I need them to make. I can do this remotely (and have for many project teams over the years that were in different office locations from me), but it is faster in person. So it's just more efficient for me to get this work done in person.
Second, it allows me to be available more readily for drop in questions and problem solving sessions. I fight to keep my desk away from the windows and corners and more centrally located where people are always coming and going. I'm a firm resource and you'd be surprised at how many times people "suddenly remember" something they need to ask me about while they're on the way to get coffee and they see me at my desk. No one sees me at my desk at home.
But I also don't want to be constantly interrupted so being able to stay home when I need to get something done is great too. Sometimes I've checked out a small conference room to hide out in so I can focus on a task, but it's just not the same as being at my monitors with my other resources around me. I used to not like working from home for this reason, but now that I've figure out my home setup out of necessity, I can continue with it out of convenience at times when it suits me.
EA, you could not have put it better. This is exactly my situation. I need to be around to be a resource for others, but also I need time alone uninterrupted to produce. I love working from home when I need that uninterrupted time, but it is so hard to get people to make the decisions I need if I’m not seeing them physically in person.
there's no "premise." i'm just curious if you're a designer, pm, owner, etc
It sounds like the premise is "Designer's perspective on WFH is xxx"
"PM's perpsective is yyy"
"Owner's perpsective is zzz"
What are you saying about the difference in perspective among these different positions?
i don't believe i've said anything? why so defensive? either share something or move on.
"What are you saying about the difference in perspective among these different positions?" I think the folks who end up in those different roles have different personalities and ways of interacting with colleagues. There are probably exceptions but certain types of folks function well in a social environment and may be ideal as a manager where as a person who can do excellent focused detailed work (like specifications writing) probably does better with less social distractions.
The perspective from those positions is different. That's just how the economics of business works, different roles are rewarded for accomplishing different tasks. It's a fair question to ask which perspective you approach WFH from.
This also reminds me of the "Maker / Manager" delineation in time management: http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html
To me it seems like someone primarily on a Maker's Schedule would be comfortable with remote work, while someone on a Manager's Schedule would rather be in an office setting. As architects we often switch between the two, but not in equal proportions, so it makes sense that the perspective would differ depending on your role in the firm.
Interesting, yeah I would say I'm roughly 2/3 maker (drafting/production) and 1/3 manager. And sure, on any given drafting task I can probably get it done faster in my highly controlled and quiet home environment - but when you start to think about the longer arc of getting really good at Revit and learning the art and science of building design and construction - I don't think slack and zoom are any match for the alchemy of smart people in a room together.
I'm a mix of maker and manager too. Mostly maker, but at times I need to have a manager schedule. I've never thought about it, but I do lose like half a day when I have a meeting thrown in mid morning or mid afternoon. I've started doing an office hours thing so people can drop in with questions, etc. and not feel like they are interrupting me. Kind of like he outlines for advising other startups, except I'm not scheduling appointments ... it's all just drop in. It's worked better than I was expecting it to though not always used and I just work on other things. It might be something I take back to the office when we do get back more.
There is going to be inherent differences in perspective. It depends on what your role and duty/function is. If you are mostly CAD/BIM production, you will have a different point of view then if your role is one that is mostly working with clients, stakeholders, and other stuff generally done in person, site-visits, etc. It will be different depending on what you do. It depends on what you are doing. I suspect some hybrid combination of WFH and in-office is going to be something people will like but I can not see how it will look for all offices.
Not to mention the differences in financial incentives between production & ownership. Even a small percentage difference in office wide efficiency will make a big difference over the course of a year to take home pay for leadership.
It will also be interesting how firms manage the decision. You won't be able to make everyone happy either way. So it will come down to the comparative advantage of the entire firm. Some people will be told tough luck & may leave as a result. It will balance out over time.
Indeed.
EA I really like the 'office hours' idea. I'll have to remember that if/when I ever become important enough to have people who need to ask me questions.
Sounds like a great idea. Why can't we do that with clients........
EA, I’d like to know more about your office hours. How do you communicate when you are available, and set/keep that boundary?
I think it's a balancing act (the office hours thing) if I'm being honest. There are a handful of us (basically the unofficial technical experts, code experts, QA/QC people) that have always had an approachable "open-door" policy when in the office. People drop by our desks to ask questions whenever they feel like they can, and we try to be as approachable as possible because we'd rather have people feel comfortable asking the question.
In person it's easy to see if I'm at my desk and even to gauge if I'm really busy or might have time to field a question without needing to interrupt me (Do I look like I'm frantically working on a deadline? Do I have headphones in trying to block out distractions? Am I on a phone call?). That's basically impossible when you can't see me at my desk.
Early in the pandemic the question was raised about whether or not we were still all approachable, but more importantly whether staff felt like they could still approach us. Simply telling people it was ok to call or message us anytime didn't feel sufficient to handle the fears of staff that might be shy, new, or who may not know our personalities as well to feel comfortable potentially interrupting us. So we thought putting together weekly office hours was a good idea to lower that fear threshold. They don't need to worry about interrupting us because we set the time aside. We don't all make it every week, but they are at least guaranteed someone will be there.
The other side of that is we still want people to feel like they can reach out whenever and not have to wait for the office hours. But we were worried that by creating office hours, some people might feel like they can't reach out to us whenever, and that they'd *need* to wait for the office hours. That's the part that I think is maybe more of the balancing act. Are we still approachable if it looks like the only time we have to answer questions is an hour each week?
So when we started the office hours, we also opened up a slack/zoom channel to field these questions too, and other people can chime in with help or advice too. I think that plus us just being our usual approachable selves has created a good culture of being able to feel like you can still ask questions whenever you need to, but also allow people who might not feel comfortable doing that to jump into the office hours or slack/zoom channel.
The side bonus for the office hours is that when there are those weeks where no one shows up, we still have the time to turn off our cameras and mics and answer emails or something. More commonly though, we use it as an unofficial happy hour to share concerns, mentor each other, or simply talk about the local sports ball or whatever and catch up.
I am ready for working in the office, my home is small so my work station is in the middle of my apartment and it is getting hard to establish boundaries between work time and home time. Also I find that management is stretching the expectations of when they can email and expect a reply. The work day had a start and an end pre Covid and now the start and end is less defined and covers a larger part of my time.
Also I have so many distractions at home, I think stepping away from my domestic life keeps my mind focused on work and and vice versa. I don't think multitasking (task switching) is my most productive mode, working from home creates an environment where task keep switching. Also would be nice to not run the AC at home all day and for those of us using a spare room for an office it would be nice to be able to sublet that out too.
Another thing is, in Chicago where I live and work, commuting in on the train gives you time to think about and plan the day, and I find that those days where I take a moment to make a list of top priorities and goals end up being more productive than when I drive in or start working the moment I wake up.
Finally I find it healthy to have a physical separation from work so subconsciously I can get out of office head space and get into home or community head space.
Obviously every person has different needs from their work life balance and I think flexibility is key, I would not want to be denied the chance to learn from and do good work with colleagues who need to take care of children or elderly parents and can not be in an office all of the time. I think flexibility and work from home will play a bigger role but not the dominant one in architecture and many other professions.
Over and OUT
Peter N
It's interesting to think about what the ideal balance would be - even for someone like me who is not a big fan of WFH, I could see maybe wanting to make a regular pattern of WFH on say Mondays and Wednesdays. Or better yet, two weeks in the city and two weeks at my cabin in the mountains (that I hope to have someday)
I think I'm also a person that benefits from some separation of work and home. I've had to become more rigid in my switching off home and switching on work, and then back again. Otherwise I'm always trying to take care of that thing in the garage, and then back to answer that email, etc. I don't miss my commute, but then sometimes I do miss my commute for that time to transition between work and home. Like I said above, I'm kind of torn between the two and look forward to finding the right balance for me.
I've also noticed a stretching of the work day. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing as long as the expectations are tempered with reality. We've had a lot of people sharing parenting duties with their partner that will not be available all morning because that's when they have kid duty, ,but then work later into the evenings. It's worked just find when the team understands the reality of the situation and knows what to expect. The problems have happened when you may not understand that an email at 9pm for that person is normal and not something to get all worried about. Or that if you need an answer for something at 10 am, it's not going to happen unless you ask for it the evening before.
I never stopped going into the office in FL, but everyone else returned a few months ago. Management was patient with individual timelines & never forced anyone back on a certain day, but it was clear that working from home was not a permanent situation & employees were expected back in the office as soon as their individual situations allowed. They're big on firm memory / being able to ask people questions easily if you've got a question. It was also next to impossible to train new employees.
For those of you who would prefer to work from home permanently: would you accept a reduction in salary now that you don't have to pay to commute/parking? That all of your meals are right there in your kitchen?
In exchange, your employer pays for your Internet and cellphone, and provides you the equipment you need to do your job - computer and tasks chair, etc...
(Before anybody reacts, no we're not contemplating this, it's just a question that popped up in my mind after reading some of these comments....)
no- i am no longer provided free snacks or coffee or beers. in terms of commuting, some people used to bike (nearly "free" commuting), while others walked (completely free), and others took transit (not so free), but salaries weren't adjusted accordingly (we're in the city though so this is different per location). and like you said i'm expected to use my own equipment (though our office is starting to address that). lunches.. another strange one because i almost always brought my lunch from home, and now that i am home i still get the occasional lunch out in the neighborhood. so that cost hasn't changed at all.
in my mind, there are too many variables/individual choices that cancel each other out to justify cutting my salary.. at the end of the day i'm still doing the same work, and often more productively.
Thanks for the response. I agree with you that it would be too much to figure out on an individual level. But if you're an employee moving to a new company, don't be surprised if this is a tactic used by potential employers in the future if WFH really becomes a permanent thing
absolutely, would not surprise me- which is why i'm not moving any time soon!
I'd immediately ask what compensation I could expect by saving them overhead on physical office costs, or if they will be subsidizing my rent/mortgage.
It should be the opposite - WFH staff should be a paid a bit more, as the office is saving on overheads in a massive way.
No kidding. How much more are we spending on power and water these days? It's not trivial.
IMO, WFH staff should have reduced responsibilities or they become highly specialized, almost like consultants. If you aren’t coming into the office you don’t get to play a central role on projects.
@axonapoplectic
Kinda depends doesn't it? Different projects require different levels of in person involvement. Sometimes, i think this is fair, but if you're doing something that only takes one or two people, it's not that critical. I found this to be the case prior to covid, it's all dependent on the project, and what needs to be done. Realistically, I think most projects would do fine, or even better with most people doing a split part at home part at the office.
My firm sort of addressed the difference in costs working from home by adding some compensation to cover for internet and phone usage, or needing by buy additional equipment, etc. Rather than try to figure it out individually they added some money to our paychecks.
They also typically offer incentives to use mass transit, bike, or walk into the office and those all stopped as no one was using them (we always had to pay for our own parking). I used to take advantage of pre-tax dollars being put on a bus pass for me as well as a portion of that being matched by the office. So the overall effect for me was a (small) take-home pay raise to work from home that I don't expect to stay as we get back to the office.
I'd like to see some numbers on savings on overhead as more people work from home. I don't think there is a whole lot unless you move into a smaller space, or completely close the office for certain days. Otherwise, you still lease the same space, and still pay to condition and light it. There is probably some difference, but I don't see it being a lot until you get to the point where the office is closed.
Biggest cost savings to having me wfh, from my office’s POV, is that they did not have to purchase coffee.
@Everyday Architect;
I don't disagree, but I think opportunity matters. I've mostly worked for smaller firms, so 1-2 staff members not taking up space in the office absolutely could be taken up by others. At the end of the day, it makes growth a bit easier if some people are working from home.
One side too is that leases, mortgages, etc. have basically been a sunk cost the last 16 months and I bet owners are tired for paying for facilities going unused. It's not an easy answer. My perspective is that an owner asking me questions about lunch, or cost of commuting and using that to reduce my pay are not looking at the big picture, and to be frank, being penny pinching pricks. If they look at my expenses as an employee, and decide it's worth risking an employee to try and save a few cents an hour, that's likely not a firm I want to work for.
Also, for firms that do a lot of work overseas and have travel costs built into their fees, WFH has been a big boom. On the one hand, its hard to not have people on the ground to pound the pavement, and for co-ordination, but saving on flights and hotels ... priceless. And, obviously with WFH, its easier to get employees on late night and early morning conference calls
been told unofficially that they want everyone back in person by beginning of September. I think the plan is to allow some occasional WFM depending on phase of project and/or project tasks.
I’ve hated working from home. I need physical separation from home and to have people around me to keep me focused on work. There are too many distractions if I am at home - especially having young kids who leave the house a mess. There’s always something to do - laundry that needs to be folded, dishes that need to be washed, yard needs work…
plus communication with coworkers has been difficult - especially on time sensitive things.
with everyone in the office, there is no ghosting
My office has been WFH since two weeks prior to local mandate. And has at most had maybe 10/100 people back in the office at any time. We are not yet allowed to all go back, and the office is not in a rush. It will be at least a couple months.
I think they have been surprised at how efficiently they are actually able to keep people working at home, and I don't expect they will ever go back full staff full time in the office, probably 3x days a week and as needed.
This is convenient in that they did not have enough office space, so they will now be able to make things work with flexible desk setups.
Personally, I'll probably spend most of the next year working on a CA project with one other person, so I'm not in much of a rush to get back for any functional reason, except that I need somewhere to store samples...