Like a lot of you I'm at home all day staring out the window, analyzing my environment and thinking about what could be improved. I think this would be a great spot for a show and tell of crappy design details that frustrate us.
It rains a lot here on the west coast, and despite nearly 150 years of industrialized construction locally, designers approach details here as if they had no idea it actually rains.
Below is a pergola for a fire exit from an underground parking garage. The apartments next door sell for around $1000 a square foot. At one point the penthouse was for sale at $10,000,000 CDN. Despite this it feels like they couldn't pay the designer for a few hours to come up with an elegant solution to rain water on the pergola glass.
In the rainy months (some ten months of the year), rain just runs off the glass into a trough and then dumps into the flower beds leaving mud that the landscapers are always left to deal with. In the summer, the glass is rarely cleaned and is filthy.
What's a design detail that frustrates you on a daily basis?
SneakyPete
Mar 24, 21 6:16 pm
They could have simply extended the rectangular gutter over the planted bed, sloped it a marginal degree (wouldn't need to be visually obvious) and then just left the end off of it. Sheesh.
Bad sketch:
chris-chitect
Mar 24, 21 6:32 pm
Haha
, and that took you how long to figure out? Probably less prone to clog with leaves as well.
SneakyPete
Mar 24, 21 6:44 pm
The stitch weld is driving me crazy.
JLC-1
Mar 25, 21 12:44 pm
how did renzo do it?
SneakyPete
Mar 25, 21 1:12 pm
He didn't, which I love. Too many people solve "problems" that aren't actually problems at all.
JLC-1
Mar 25, 21 2:54 pm
just making the glass overhang enough; so a bit more money avoids future headaches, who would have thought?
natematt
Mar 24, 21 6:17 pm
Woops.
SneakyPete
Mar 24, 21 6:19 pm
Jesus. Make them redo it. It's just a swap of the main with the overflow. This isn't bad design, this is a contractor fuck up.
Jaetten
Mar 26, 21 11:06 am
wtf... unless there's a legitimate reason for goose-necking the downpipe and hopper then that's a bloody lazy job!
SneakyPete
Mar 26, 21 11:13 am
Architect laid it out so the overflow would be above the glazing and the pipe would run straight. Contractor installed the overflow where the main was supposed to be and this was the solution. Either the architect lost the RFI fight or there was no RFI.
whistler
Mar 26, 21 12:32 pm
missed it by that much!
( get smart reference )
Almosthip
Mar 24, 21 6:50 pm
This surface mounted receptacle really grinds my gears.
SneakyPete
Mar 24, 21 6:54 pm
What's going on with that stem wall finish?
Almosthip
Mar 24, 21 7:02 pm
That parging on protection board on rigid insulation on a 1200mm deep concrete grade beam. We have high plastic clay here so we use pile and grade beams, not foundation wall on footings.
SneakyPete
Mar 24, 21 7:03 pm
My questions are not to challenge your design, I'm asking because it's unfamiliar to me. Does the parging get damaged with weedeaters and such?
Almosthip7
Mar 24, 21 7:18 pm
It’s a cementious product that is cheap and easy to reapply. Not sure how it would hold up to chemicals but our winters here are rough on exterior finishes near grade. Especially anywhere near snow removal and ploughs.
Almosthip7
Mar 24, 21 7:18 pm
It’s a cementious product that is cheap and easy to reapply. Not sure how it would hold up to chemicals but our winters here are rough on exterior finishes near grade. Especially anywhere near snow removal and ploughs.
t a z
Mar 24, 21 7:42 pm
I think an off-the-shelf flush mounted while-in-use receptacle is a unicorn. You can do a recessed cabinet to house an outlet if it's NEMA rated, but those are also not pretty.
bowling_ball
Mar 24, 21 8:25 pm
Almosthip7 - I recognize that window manufacturer. And if the owner is cheaping out that much with fenestration, I'm sure the receptacle mounting is so far off the radar it's funny.
Almosthip7
Mar 24, 21 9:04 pm
It’s a shop in northern Alberta. Pretty sure his going to lose more heat out of the 6 overhead doors opening and closing all day than that window
tduds
Mar 24, 21 9:32 pm
Are my eyes playing tricks or is that wall slightly canted?
bowling_ball
Mar 24, 21 10:06 pm
tduds, it's just the camera converging lines. Look at the little building in the background on the left - it matches the angle of the wall in question
Everyday Architect
Mar 24, 21 7:06 pm
I don't have a photo of it, but I once saw the FDC stub out from a stem wall and then up maybe 12 inches or so right in front of the storefront on top of the stem wall in order to (presumably) get the connections at the right height. FDC was about the same height as the bottom of storefront so it was always going to be a bad detail unless you changed the storefront/stem wall heights, or could move the FDC. I might have to find a photo of it because I'm not sure my explanation sufficiently describes how much it bothered me. First I have to remember where I saw it.
Everyday Architect
Mar 24, 21 7:29 pm
Found it! It's in Seattle near the convention center. Sort of a weird image because there was a parked car blocking the google street view of it.
natematt
Mar 24, 21 7:26 pm
Sad architecture or architecture gore? I got some of the latter too...
bowling_ball
Mar 24, 21 10:12 pm
From one of my jobs. The owner loved it so it stayed (not joking). It's in the mechanical penthouse. We all got a good laugh.
SneakyPete
Mar 24, 21 11:13 pm
I like that owner. I once worked with a mechanical engineer who put a duct around a sprinkler pipe so they could save space and not need to reroute the sprinkler system (which was charged). They made it aerofoil shaped and put in elements to make it as efficient as possible.
newguy
Mar 25, 21 5:28 pm
HOW did this happen? Did they just run out of conduit length and say fuck-it?
bowling_ball
Mar 25, 21 7:07 pm
It's not conduit, it's BX. But basically at the last minute they wanted some lights on the roof above and I'm not sure what happened but this was definitely not necessary.
newguy
Mar 25, 21 7:43 pm
regardless, i don't understand why they felt compelled to literally cut corners like that. its mind boggling, and the only explanation I can think of is they just didn't have enough length to turn the corner around the outside. it almost looks like the drywall guy came in after the fact and tried to work around the BX and then clipped it on the gyp afterward....maybe that's what happened? this is driving me nuts
randomised
Mar 26, 21 4:50 am
they def. did the plaster after
On the fence
Mar 26, 21 9:49 am
I'm not buying this picture. Sorry. The drywall would have had to been in place first. There is just no way the electrical guy then came in and attached the flexible metal conduit so tight that a drywall bead corner could not be slipped in between. Look at the concrete column where the conduit bends. All you needed to do was move that corner to the left more, run it at an angle from there along the soffit until it missed the drywall bead corner. Its simple geometry and wiggling the conduit around.
gibbost
Mar 26, 21 10:17 am
From BB's story, it was an afterthought. My guess is that the electrician simply punched a hole thru the gyp on each face and ran the BX cable thru. Trying to make the 90d bend around the corner bead would have left the cable off the wall several inches.
In order to fasten it securely to the wall, he/she chose to make a 'sweeping bend' thru the bulkhead. All other trades were likely already off the job by then. I find it to be sort of a clever solution in the field.
Wood Guy
Mar 26, 21 10:23 am
^That's how I see it. Weird, but weirdly clever too.
randomised
Mar 26, 21 3:30 pm
I thought it was plaster but it’s gypsum board, now I get it.
Miles Jaffe
Mar 26, 21 3:42 pm
Next.
natematt
Mar 26, 21 8:58 pm
Got to go fast...
natematt
Mar 27, 21 4:11 am
This is actually a photo I
took btw.
midlander
Mar 26, 21 11:54 pm
idk maybe this is actually very useful. i am glad not be the person who needs this detail.
midlander
Mar 27, 21 12:03 am
this space is publicly accessible.
bowling_ball
Mar 27, 21 12:53 am
Wow. That's... Unfortunate. I don't recognize the project -should I?
Jaetten
Mar 29, 21 4:01 am
Publicly accessible! Do then want to get sued when someone trips over a pipe?
midlander
Mar 29, 21 7:44 am
BB - probably not, this is a shopping center in China. It was renovated at some point to add a level of F+B and that required adding gas supply to the roof level. I guess it looked ok in plan!
tduds
Apr 29, 21 5:39 pm
Encountered some - uhm - creative ceiling work today.
Yes that's an exterior roll-up door.
SneakyPete
Apr 29, 21 5:40 pm
Wow. That's...
Impressive.
Non Sequitur
Apr 29, 21 6:02 pm
My mechanical p.eng would have insisted on a run of sprinkler heads directly below the door to keep 100% even when rolled up.
Chad Miller
Apr 29, 21 6:12 pm
::tilts head:: WTF, I mean, huh?
bowling_ball
Apr 29, 21 6:23 pm
NS one of my engineers did this to me recently. Wtf is going on? Are we even allowed to design any more?
midlander
Apr 29, 21 6:26 pm
what kind of space is this?
Non Sequitur
Apr 29, 21 6:38 pm
BB, I've had many such conversations... and although I've not won all of them, I do think my win rate is above 50%. Usually I just mark-up the sprinkler shop drawings and ask the fire-protection sub to provide the angled-type sprinkler head and drop it below the level of the open door but to keep it to the side.
tduds
Apr 29, 21 6:52 pm
mid - trash room / loading. at least it's BOH.
Also just as a disclaimer this is from an existing building a client is moving into. It's an old utilitarian cubicle array. Lot of 70s era, drop ceiling, grid lighting, off-white, dirty carpet ...depressing as fuck. Wouldn't want anyone to think this was my work. I'm hoping to fix it.
SneakyPete
Apr 29, 21 6:58 pm
I have a project with sprinklers I'm proud of, but it would immediately out me and I'm not ready for that. Suffice it to say that I think a good sprinkler contractor is worth their weight in gold.
midlander
Apr 29, 21 8:05 pm
it's well done, couldn't criticize the carefulness of the detailing or the installation. it's just strategically absurd. needed an architect earlier in the process :)
midlander
Apr 29, 21 8:06 pm
nice finishes for a trash room...
tduds
Apr 30, 21 12:31 am
You're not wrong midlander
bowling_ball
Apr 29, 21 6:27 pm
Yup. Somebody built a wall to the underside of a diffuser. Kind of genius, really. My pic but not my project.
Non Sequitur
Apr 29, 21 6:36 pm
Our interior designers do this often when they start their fit-ups. They forget about the linear diffusers along the curtainwall and run their demountable walls as if they dont exists.
bowling_ball
Apr 29, 21 6:45 pm
That's a steel stud wall. A bathroom wall, actually, in a bar I used to frequent.
Like a lot of you I'm at home all day staring out the window, analyzing my environment and thinking about what could be improved. I think this would be a great spot for a show and tell of crappy design details that frustrate us.
It rains a lot here on the west coast, and despite nearly 150 years of industrialized construction locally, designers approach details here as if they had no idea it actually rains.
Below is a pergola for a fire exit from an underground parking garage. The apartments next door sell for around $1000 a square foot. At one point the penthouse was for sale at $10,000,000 CDN. Despite this it feels like they couldn't pay the designer for a few hours to come up with an elegant solution to rain water on the pergola glass.
In the rainy months (some ten months of the year), rain just runs off the glass into a trough and then dumps into the flower beds leaving mud that the landscapers are always left to deal with. In the summer, the glass is rarely cleaned and is filthy.
What's a design detail that frustrates you on a daily basis?
They could have simply extended the rectangular gutter over the planted bed, sloped it a marginal degree (wouldn't need to be visually obvious) and then just left the end off of it. Sheesh.
Bad sketch:
Haha , and that took you how long to figure out? Probably less prone to clog with leaves as well.
The stitch weld is driving me crazy.
how did renzo do it?
He didn't, which I love. Too many people solve "problems" that aren't actually problems at all.
just making the glass overhang enough; so a bit more money avoids future headaches, who would have thought?
Woops.
Jesus. Make them redo it. It's just a swap of the main with the overflow. This isn't bad design, this is a contractor fuck up.
wtf... unless there's a legitimate reason for goose-necking the downpipe and hopper then that's a bloody lazy job!
Architect laid it out so the overflow would be above the glazing and the pipe would run straight. Contractor installed the overflow where the main was supposed to be and this was the solution. Either the architect lost the RFI fight or there was no RFI.
missed it by that much! ( get smart reference )
This surface mounted receptacle really grinds my gears.
What's going on with that stem wall finish?
That parging on protection board on rigid insulation on a 1200mm deep concrete grade beam. We have high plastic clay here so we use pile and grade beams, not foundation wall on footings.
My questions are not to challenge your design, I'm asking because it's unfamiliar to me. Does the parging get damaged with weedeaters and such?
It’s a cementious product that is cheap and easy to reapply. Not sure how it would hold up to chemicals but our winters here are rough on exterior finishes near grade. Especially anywhere near snow removal and ploughs.
It’s a cementious product that is cheap and easy to reapply. Not sure how it would hold up to chemicals but our winters here are rough on exterior finishes near grade. Especially anywhere near snow removal and ploughs.
I think an off-the-shelf flush mounted while-in-use receptacle is a unicorn. You can do a recessed cabinet to house an outlet if it's NEMA rated, but those are also not pretty.
Almosthip7 - I recognize that window manufacturer. And if the owner is cheaping out that much with fenestration, I'm sure the receptacle mounting is so far off the radar it's funny.
It’s a shop in northern Alberta. Pretty sure his going to lose more heat out of the 6 overhead doors opening and closing all day than that window
Are my eyes playing tricks or is that wall slightly canted?
tduds, it's just the camera converging lines. Look at the little building in the background on the left - it matches the angle of the wall in question
I don't have a photo of it, but I once saw the FDC stub out from a stem wall and then up maybe 12 inches or so right in front of the storefront on top of the stem wall in order to (presumably) get the connections at the right height. FDC was about the same height as the bottom of storefront so it was always going to be a bad detail unless you changed the storefront/stem wall heights, or could move the FDC. I might have to find a photo of it because I'm not sure my explanation sufficiently describes how much it bothered me. First I have to remember where I saw it.
Found it! It's in Seattle near the convention center. Sort of a weird image because there was a parked car blocking the google street view of it.
Sad architecture or architecture gore? I got some of the latter too...
From one of my jobs. The owner loved it so it stayed (not joking). It's in the mechanical penthouse. We all got a good laugh.
I like that owner. I once worked with a mechanical engineer who put a duct around a sprinkler pipe so they could save space and not need to reroute the sprinkler system (which was charged). They made it aerofoil shaped and put in elements to make it as efficient as possible.
HOW did this happen? Did they just run out of conduit length and say fuck-it?
It's not conduit, it's BX. But basically at the last minute they wanted some lights on the roof above and I'm not sure what happened but this was definitely not necessary.
regardless, i don't understand why they felt compelled to literally cut corners like that. its mind boggling, and the only explanation I can think of is they just didn't have enough length to turn the corner around the outside. it almost looks like the drywall guy came in after the fact and tried to work around the BX and then clipped it on the gyp afterward....maybe that's what happened? this is driving me nuts
they def. did the plaster after
I'm not buying this picture. Sorry. The drywall would have had to been in place first. There is just no way the electrical guy then came in and attached the flexible metal conduit so tight that a drywall bead corner could not be slipped in between. Look at the concrete column where the conduit bends. All you needed to do was move that corner to the left more, run it at an angle from there along the soffit until it missed the drywall bead corner. Its simple geometry and wiggling the conduit around.
From BB's story, it was an afterthought. My guess is that the electrician simply punched a hole thru the gyp on each face and ran the BX cable thru. Trying to make the 90d bend around the corner bead would have left the cable off the wall several inches. In order to fasten it securely to the wall, he/she chose to make a 'sweeping bend' thru the bulkhead. All other trades were likely already off the job by then. I find it to be sort of a clever solution in the field.
^That's how I see it. Weird, but weirdly clever too.
I thought it was plaster but it’s gypsum board, now I get it.
Next.Got to go fast...
This is actually a photo I took btw.
idk maybe this is actually very useful. i am glad not be the person who needs this detail.
this space is publicly accessible.
Wow. That's... Unfortunate. I don't recognize the project -should I?
Publicly accessible! Do then want to get sued when someone trips over a pipe?
BB - probably not, this is a shopping center in China. It was renovated at some point to add a level of F+B and that required adding gas supply to the roof level. I guess it looked ok in plan!
Encountered some - uhm - creative ceiling work today.
Yes that's an exterior roll-up door.
Wow. That's...
Impressive.
My mechanical p.eng would have insisted on a run of sprinkler heads directly below the door to keep 100% even when rolled up.
::tilts head:: WTF, I mean, huh?
NS one of my engineers did this to me recently. Wtf is going on? Are we even allowed to design any more?
what kind of space is this?
BB, I've had many such conversations... and although I've not won all of them, I do think my win rate is above 50%. Usually I just mark-up the sprinkler shop drawings and ask the fire-protection sub to provide the angled-type sprinkler head and drop it below the level of the open door but to keep it to the side.
mid - trash room / loading. at least it's BOH.
Also just as a disclaimer this is from an existing building a client is moving into. It's an old utilitarian cubicle array. Lot of 70s era, drop ceiling, grid lighting, off-white, dirty carpet ...depressing as fuck. Wouldn't want anyone to think this was my work. I'm hoping to fix it.
I have a project with sprinklers I'm proud of, but it would immediately out me and I'm not ready for that. Suffice it to say that I think a good sprinkler contractor is worth their weight in gold.
it's well done, couldn't criticize the carefulness of the detailing or the installation. it's just strategically absurd. needed an architect earlier in the process :)
nice finishes for a trash room...
You're not wrong midlander
Yup. Somebody built a wall to the underside of a diffuser. Kind of genius, really. My pic but not my project.
Our interior designers do this often when they start their fit-ups. They forget about the linear diffusers along the curtainwall and run their demountable walls as if they dont exists.
That's a steel stud wall. A bathroom wall, actually, in a bar I used to frequent.