after realizing that I'm at another work to death culture company, I've started the job search again. However, since there is good job security here and great people it's not unbearable. Alongside attempting to set boundraries and seeing if I can create some work like balance at the current role, I'd really like to see if I can find some great places that offer flex schedules. These dont necessarily need to be roles in AEC. I'm realizing what I value in life comes outside of work hours not really from it. I also don't really care about money. HOWEVER, I've quickly realized you immediately get labeled as lazy and a bad hirer if instead of money, time is what you value. Has any one ever based their job search on flexibility and how did you search? It understandably doesnt go to well if you immediately ask, do you have a flex schedule? But also, I'm not going to leave the current role unless there is WFH (easier to search for) or the holy grail of 9 9's and every other friday. Or 4 10's. So any interview is a waste of time unless those are offered.
thisisnotmyname
Jan 25, 21 3:48 pm
If you don't care about money and value days off above all other things, why don't you move to a part time job or freelance work?
archi_dude
Jan 25, 21 3:59 pm
Family. I'd be all over that if I found myself single.
mightyaa
Jan 25, 21 5:02 pm
Sort of. I realized a long time ago an interview is really a two-way road. As the one hiring, it is the opportunity to sell my firm, culture, and the perks to the applicant. I didn't interview every resume, and interviewed the one I wanted most first. So I went out of my way to make sure they knew how things actually were. Nothing is worse than hiring someone and having them unhappy to eventually quit just after I trained them.
On the other side, I ask questions so I have answers on the sorts of things that matter to me. Additionally, I've usually researched them and potentially have talked with current or past employees or where those leaders came from (which gives you a clue for how they were taught to manage). Doesn't mean they don't lie though. I was told I could telework to avoid a long commute and hours were flexible. By that they meant I could take work home in the evenings or weekends, and show up to the office somewhere between 6am and 8am.
archi_dude
Jan 25, 21 5:05 pm
Ha ha, yup, same exact thing happened to me once before. Definitely need to make sure it's a common practice and that other employees take advantage
archi_dude
Jan 25, 21 5:06 pm
In addition I had one place offer a WFH day, no one did it but I took it up. The amount of jealousy from coworkers for a perk they ALL could take advantage of was ridiculous.
bowling_ball
Jan 25, 21 5:53 pm
archi, it's like offering unlimited vacation time. In reality, nobody takes it so while it looks good on paper, it's actually a trick to get you to work more. At least one local firm does this, and I know a dozen employees there who all confirm this. Which isn't the same as flex time, but is interesting.
randomised
Jan 26, 21 4:20 am
Ever since I'm a dad I work 4 days...it is totally acceptable here (NL/EU) I worked 32hrs, 40hrs in 4 days, and now again 32 in 4 days. The working from home is a bit of a curve ball with two kids running around all the time (daycare closed), but that's only temporary (I hope). I work flexible when necessary, can log in remotely and catch up on things in evenings or weekends when stuff couldn't get done during regular hours. I've worked for female owned, male owned and male/female owned offices, and all are very accommodating and it can be brought up safely during interviews. For consultants and people in the public sector it is also very common not to work 5 days a week here.
work for yourself & carry no employees - then work when you want
Pros: overhead is tiny; time is yours to choose; financial responsibility is really just expenses (don’t rent space)
Cons: keeping the workflow consistent (and, if just starting, developing a good rep so that work actually flows); you have to do the unbillable stuff too: invoicing, accounting, taxes, marketing (even just passive like web presence), etc
Fuck...maybe trade careers to real estate agent/developer with a side in arch remodel/flip/fluff...prolly a shitton of work to get established, but once you get the vibe, it will produce with better returns over less input time
archinet
Jan 26, 21 11:52 am
The last office I worked for had a fob that would start clocking your hours everytime you entered the office. Every hour you worked overtime you had as an additional hour towards your holiday and this was for everybody in the office. It was a smart perk that definitely kept people from jumping ship- it was a corporate office after all. But they did decent large scale projects. However when deadlines were tight you had to put in the overtime, but at least we could take the extra time off after crazy deadlines. Some of the more senior architects with kids worked 4 days a week. The office is in Germany btw.
I guess try to find an office where working flexible hours applies to everybody in the office and has a strong culture supporting this- otherwise it is unfair to the other employees. Try to find out if this is the case in the interview.
archinet
Jan 26, 21 2:54 pm
oh yeah I forgot to mention it did not matter when you arrived or left, as long as you were present in meetings
Jay1122
Jan 26, 21 12:34 pm
The offices(2) I worked at all has core hours, you can then flex your arrival and departure time as long as you have 40 Hrs total in a week. Overtime work is nearly nonexistent. Personally I think it is good enough flex, you can arrive early to avoid traffic and then leave around 3-4 to avoid traffic again. If you want 4 10hrs week, I think it is unusual in architecture firm as standard since they want people able to communicate with clients, consultants, team members on daily basis. But it is definitely something that can be negotiated during interview. However, most of those firms are corporate. Does not do fancy design works. Work from Home is just temporary, I doubt it will stay in this industry. I never like WFH, feels like you have to work even harder to not get considered slacking at home.
whistler
Jan 26, 21 2:44 pm
My staff all work 4 days a week, 10 hrs a day. Been doing it for 15 years, staff love it, Clients learn to love it ( they don't have choice ) work life balance. no reduction in pay, or holiday time. nuff said!
square.
Jan 26, 21 3:04 pm
i've worked in some flexibility into my schedule after about 1.5-2 years at my current office. my strategy, which i saw work for others, was to find an office with a great culture and nice management, hoping that if i put in my time eventually things would eventually free up a bit. luckily, this has worked out for me.
after realizing that I'm at another work to death culture company, I've started the job search again. However, since there is good job security here and great people it's not unbearable. Alongside attempting to set boundraries and seeing if I can create some work like balance at the current role, I'd really like to see if I can find some great places that offer flex schedules. These dont necessarily need to be roles in AEC. I'm realizing what I value in life comes outside of work hours not really from it. I also don't really care about money. HOWEVER, I've quickly realized you immediately get labeled as lazy and a bad hirer if instead of money, time is what you value. Has any one ever based their job search on flexibility and how did you search? It understandably doesnt go to well if you immediately ask, do you have a flex schedule? But also, I'm not going to leave the current role unless there is WFH (easier to search for) or the holy grail of 9 9's and every other friday. Or 4 10's. So any interview is a waste of time unless those are offered.
If you don't care about money and value days off above all other things, why don't you move to a part time job or freelance work?
Family. I'd be all over that if I found myself single.
Sort of. I realized a long time ago an interview is really a two-way road. As the one hiring, it is the opportunity to sell my firm, culture, and the perks to the applicant. I didn't interview every resume, and interviewed the one I wanted most first. So I went out of my way to make sure they knew how things actually were. Nothing is worse than hiring someone and having them unhappy to eventually quit just after I trained them.
On the other side, I ask questions so I have answers on the sorts of things that matter to me. Additionally, I've usually researched them and potentially have talked with current or past employees or where those leaders came from (which gives you a clue for how they were taught to manage). Doesn't mean they don't lie though. I was told I could telework to avoid a long commute and hours were flexible. By that they meant I could take work home in the evenings or weekends, and show up to the office somewhere between 6am and 8am.
Ha ha, yup, same exact thing happened to me once before. Definitely need to make sure it's a common practice and that other employees take advantage
In addition I had one place offer a WFH day, no one did it but I took it up. The amount of jealousy from coworkers for a perk they ALL could take advantage of was ridiculous.
archi, it's like offering unlimited vacation time. In reality, nobody takes it so while it looks good on paper, it's actually a trick to get you to work more. At least one local firm does this, and I know a dozen employees there who all confirm this. Which isn't the same as flex time, but is interesting.
Ever since I'm a dad I work 4 days...it is totally acceptable here (NL/EU) I worked 32hrs, 40hrs in 4 days, and now again 32 in 4 days. The working from home is a bit of a curve ball with two kids running around all the time (daycare closed), but that's only temporary (I hope). I work flexible when necessary, can log in remotely and catch up on things in evenings or weekends when stuff couldn't get done during regular hours. I've worked for female owned, male owned and male/female owned offices, and all are very accommodating and it can be brought up safely during interviews. For consultants and people in the public sector it is also very common not to work 5 days a week here.
https://data.oecd.org/emp/part...
work for yourself & carry no employees - then work when you want
Pros: overhead is tiny; time is yours to choose; financial responsibility is really just expenses (don’t rent space)
Cons: keeping the workflow consistent (and, if just starting, developing a good rep so that work actually flows); you have to do the unbillable stuff too: invoicing, accounting, taxes, marketing (even just passive like web presence), etc
Fuck...maybe trade careers to real estate agent/developer with a side in arch remodel/flip/fluff...prolly a shitton of work to get established, but once you get the vibe, it will produce with better returns over less input time
The last office I worked for had a fob that would start clocking your hours everytime you entered the office. Every hour you worked overtime you had as an additional hour towards your holiday and this was for everybody in the office. It was a smart perk that definitely kept people from jumping ship- it was a corporate office after all. But they did decent large scale projects. However when deadlines were tight you had to put in the overtime, but at least we could take the extra time off after crazy deadlines. Some of the more senior architects with kids worked 4 days a week. The office is in Germany btw.
I guess try to find an office where working flexible hours applies to everybody in the office and has a strong culture supporting this- otherwise it is unfair to the other employees. Try to find out if this is the case in the interview.
oh yeah I forgot to mention it did not matter when you arrived or left, as long as you were present in meetings
The offices(2) I worked at all has core hours, you can then flex your arrival and departure time as long as you have 40 Hrs total in a week. Overtime work is nearly nonexistent. Personally I think it is good enough flex, you can arrive early to avoid traffic and then leave around 3-4 to avoid traffic again. If you want 4 10hrs week, I think it is unusual in architecture firm as standard since they want people able to communicate with clients, consultants, team members on daily basis. But it is definitely something that can be negotiated during interview. However, most of those firms are corporate. Does not do fancy design works. Work from Home is just temporary, I doubt it will stay in this industry. I never like WFH, feels like you have to work even harder to not get considered slacking at home.
My staff all work 4 days a week, 10 hrs a day. Been doing it for 15 years, staff love it, Clients learn to love it ( they don't have choice ) work life balance. no reduction in pay, or holiday time. nuff said!
i've worked in some flexibility into my schedule after about 1.5-2 years at my current office. my strategy, which i saw work for others, was to find an office with a great culture and nice management, hoping that if i put in my time eventually things would eventually free up a bit. luckily, this has worked out for me.