We’ve been painting the kitchen this weekend, and happened to accidentally damage the roll vinyl flooring.
Underneath we find this:
They’re large 12” + boards. The black lines appear to be either print or dirt from a previous flooring job. They are nailed over the floorboards and have a 5mm joint.
I suspect asbestos, however due to their size, I’ve only seen joints and nails, I think they may simply be cement backing boards for tiling.
I don’t want to remove the laminate on top until I’ve tested a sample, so unwilling to pull up more.
Has anyone seen boards like this before?
JLC-1
Dec 19, 20 5:29 pm
yikes!, you have a 50/50 shoot depending on age, looks like fiber cement board/tile, used to be made with asbestos fiber, and the caulk should be tested too.
apscoradiales
Dec 19, 20 5:41 pm
You cannot afford asbestos abatement, trust me.
So, encapsulate it, by placing a layer of cementitious board over existing vinyl, and put new floor over that. Before you do that, screw the existing floor onto the floor joists as often as you can (12" in one direction, 16" in the other - assuming your floor joists are at 16" o/c) through the vinyl that way you don't disturb the asbestos. Then place porcelain tile on top.
b3tadine[sutures]
Dec 19, 20 8:07 pm
pay for a test, they're cheap.
Josh Mings
Dec 19, 20 8:37 pm
Abatement, however, is not. Encapsulate it.
b3tadine[sutures]
Dec 19, 20 9:10 pm
Not saying that it is, what I'm suggesting is that we're all encapsulate, but we don't even know what it is. Test it. Decide next steps. Plus, I'm seeing costs in the area of $2-$3k. Not necessarily budget busting.
bowling_ball
Dec 19, 20 9:27 pm
b3ta, the OP's project is to paint their kitchen, not do a full renovation from what I can infer. $2-$3k could literally be 10x their original budget.
b3tadine[sutures]
Dec 20, 20 9:12 am
He doesn't even know if it's asbestos. My point is that encapsulating puts off a problem, that you may not even have, kicking the can down the road when it will cost more. Additionally, how many thresholds exist, two, or three? Adding a min 1/2" at all locations. Cabinet base? Test it, then decide. I just don't like asbestos in my home. There are instructions on the internet to do this yourself.
Jaetten
Dec 20, 20 4:53 am
Thanks folks. I know we have asbestos in other areas of the house, there's wooden wall panelling over where the original boiler / heat appliance was, which has asbestos chimney flue lining. We also have asbestos in the woodchip paper on the kitchen walls and possibly in the artex on the ceilings.
Also, our garage is timber frame with asbestos sheet roof and asbestos millboard walling panels.
We're renting, permission to decorate (not been decorated since 80's) so a full kitchen renovation is off the cards, just painting.
I've got contact details for a local asbestos survey company (I've worked with several in the area via my day job) and will get a test after Xmas.
I'll see what a survey picks up. If it's all clear the roll vinyl will come off and I'll ceramic tile. If not, I'll look at other options.
apscoradiales
Dec 20, 20 8:53 am
If it's discovered that you lots of asbestos in the house, you might seriously consider selling, though that;s probably too late now as the cat-is-out-of-the-bag. To remove all of the stuff might cost you a King's Ransom. Encapsulating so much of it will also cost you dearly. In either case, I would strongly suggest you move out of the house while either work is done. Simply put, in worse case scenario, you are screwed, unfortunately. Did you inspect the house before buying it or was this an inheritance?
apscoradiales
Dec 20, 20 9:01 am
Sorry, I just realised you are renting. In that case move right NOW! Asbestos is deadly stuff, don't underestimate it.
Non Sequitur
Dec 20, 20 9:08 am
We bought our house knowing their might be asbestos wrapped insulation left over from the 60s. It’s fine as long as it remains unmolested.
b3tadine[sutures]
Dec 20, 20 9:14 am
Well, that changes the whole dynamic.
JLC-1
Dec 20, 20 12:42 pm
How can they rent you an apartment knowing there's asbestos in it?
apscoradiales
Dec 20, 20 2:38 pm
What if the owner didn't know or claims he/she didn't know? You would have to prove that they knowingly lied if you took them to court. One would have the grounds for breaking the Lease Agreement, but that's about it. There is another aspect; perhaps all the houses in the area have asbestos in some form or another. It was pretty common for asbestos to be used prior to 1970's and even later in construction including residential.
bowling_ball
Dec 20, 20 2:55 pm
What are you people talking about? If the house is older than about 40 years, it's full of asbestos and lead. Doesn't make them dangerous, so long as you don't disturb those materials. The median age of American housing is about 40 years. Nobody dies because they have asbestos in their flooring.
x-jla
Dec 20, 20 3:28 pm
Typically the landlord / seller must disclose if the house may have asbestos. It’s usually in the state laws.
apscoradiales
Dec 20, 20 9:26 am
NS, we bought ours that had "popcorn" ceiling finish, which is partially asbestos. After we bought it, we attached another layer of gwb over it.
Jaetten
Dec 29, 20 7:26 am
Thank you for the help. I have spoken to our neighbour across who is renovating - they had the original boards and tiles (same underlay boards as mine) and confirmed that his were asbestos. Boards were visually identical, so I am treating as it is asbestos and will board and tile over with a 6mm cement A1 fire rated backing board.
On another note, the laminate has peeled off from a corner unit blank panel. We have the original chocolate brown kitchen carcasses, with white 'PLEATHER' hidden under a 'new' maple melamine veneer on the facias...
Jaetten
Dec 29, 20 7:32 am
What were they thinking?!?!
thisisnotmyname
Dec 29, 20 9:12 am
The least expensive peel and stick vinyl flooring you can find would look really pretty here. Save your money and labor for a property you actually own.
justavisual
Dec 29, 20 12:04 pm
Ah the joys of rental properties....layers upon layers upon layers.
We’ve been painting the kitchen this weekend, and happened to accidentally damage the roll vinyl flooring.
Underneath we find this:
They’re large 12” + boards. The black lines appear to be either print or dirt from a previous flooring job. They are nailed over the floorboards and have a 5mm joint.
I suspect asbestos, however due to their size, I’ve only seen joints and nails, I think they may simply be cement backing boards for tiling.
I don’t want to remove the laminate on top until I’ve tested a sample, so unwilling to pull up more.
Has anyone seen boards like this before?
yikes!, you have a 50/50 shoot depending on age, looks like fiber cement board/tile, used to be made with asbestos fiber, and the caulk should be tested too.
You cannot afford asbestos abatement, trust me.
So, encapsulate it, by placing a layer of cementitious board over existing vinyl, and put new floor over that. Before you do that, screw the existing floor onto the floor joists as often as you can (12" in one direction, 16" in the other - assuming your floor joists are at 16" o/c) through the vinyl that way you don't disturb the asbestos. Then place porcelain tile on top.
pay for a test, they're cheap.
Abatement, however, is not. Encapsulate it.
Not saying that it is, what I'm suggesting is that we're all encapsulate, but we don't even know what it is. Test it. Decide next steps. Plus, I'm seeing costs in the area of $2-$3k. Not necessarily budget busting.
b3ta, the OP's project is to paint their kitchen, not do a full renovation from what I can infer. $2-$3k could literally be 10x their original budget.
He doesn't even know if it's asbestos. My point is that encapsulating puts off a problem, that you may not even have, kicking the can down the road when it will cost more. Additionally, how many thresholds exist, two, or three? Adding a min 1/2" at all locations. Cabinet base? Test it, then decide. I just don't like asbestos in my home. There are instructions on the internet to do this yourself.
Thanks folks. I know we have asbestos in other areas of the house, there's wooden wall panelling over where the original boiler / heat appliance was, which has asbestos chimney flue lining. We also have asbestos in the woodchip paper on the kitchen walls and possibly in the artex on the ceilings.
Also, our garage is timber frame with asbestos sheet roof and asbestos millboard walling panels.
We're renting, permission to decorate (not been decorated since 80's) so a full kitchen renovation is off the cards, just painting.
I've got contact details for a local asbestos survey company (I've worked with several in the area via my day job) and will get a test after Xmas.
I'll see what a survey picks up. If it's all clear the roll vinyl will come off and I'll ceramic tile. If not, I'll look at other options.
If it's discovered that you lots of asbestos in the house, you might seriously consider selling, though that;s probably too late now as the cat-is-out-of-the-bag. To remove all of the stuff might cost you a King's Ransom. Encapsulating so much of it will also cost you dearly. In either case, I would strongly suggest you move out of the house while either work is done. Simply put, in worse case scenario, you are screwed, unfortunately. Did you inspect the house before buying it or was this an inheritance?
Sorry, I just realised you are renting. In that case move right NOW! Asbestos is deadly stuff, don't underestimate it.
We bought our house knowing their might be asbestos wrapped insulation left over from the 60s. It’s fine as long as it remains unmolested.
Well, that changes the whole dynamic.
How can they rent you an apartment knowing there's asbestos in it?
What if the owner didn't know or claims he/she didn't know? You would have to prove that they knowingly lied if you took them to court. One would have the grounds for breaking the Lease Agreement, but that's about it. There is another aspect; perhaps all the houses in the area have asbestos in some form or another. It was pretty common for asbestos to be used prior to 1970's and even later in construction including residential.
What are you people talking about? If the house is older than about 40 years, it's full of asbestos and lead. Doesn't make them dangerous, so long as you don't disturb those materials. The median age of American housing is about 40 years. Nobody dies because they have asbestos in their flooring.
Typically the landlord / seller must disclose if the house may have asbestos. It’s usually in the state laws.
NS, we bought ours that had "popcorn" ceiling finish, which is partially asbestos. After we bought it, we attached another layer of gwb over it.
Thank you for the help. I have spoken to our neighbour across who is renovating - they had the original boards and tiles (same underlay boards as mine) and confirmed that his were asbestos. Boards were visually identical, so I am treating as it is asbestos and will board and tile over with a 6mm cement A1 fire rated backing board.
On another note, the laminate has peeled off from a corner unit blank panel. We have the original chocolate brown kitchen carcasses, with white 'PLEATHER' hidden under a 'new' maple melamine veneer on the facias...
What were they thinking?!?!
The least expensive peel and stick vinyl flooring you can find would look really pretty here. Save your money and labor for a property you actually own.
Ah the joys of rental properties....layers upon layers upon layers.