Say if there was a load-bearing wall, could it be swapped out for a open-on-both-sides shelving system that used 1" x 8" hardwoods like walnut or cherry?
Non Sequitur
Jun 19, 20 11:12 am
maybe... missing a healthy amount of context here.
tduds
Jun 19, 20 11:25 am
Can it? Sure. Should it? Less sure.
Non Sequitur
Jun 19, 20 11:45 am
come to think about it, I don't recall ever seeing a load-bearing section at Ikea.
curtkram
Jun 22, 20 12:27 am
i feel like i need to talk to a structural engineer about using paper products for columns. surely there is a leed credit here somewhere?
Steven Ward
Jun 19, 20 11:49 am
A weird way to frame the question. I mean, if you can build a satisfactory load-bearing structure out of vertical 1x8s, then put shelves between them, yes. But 1x8s seem like weak sauce, i.e., would likely bend under a load unless braced in a carefully considered way.
So then, can the shelves be configured in such a way that they appropriately brace the 1x8s?
Time to pull out those structures notes!
citizen
Jun 19, 20 12:47 pm
Steel plate!
monosierra
Jun 19, 20 12:20 pm
Can a load bearing wall be a bookshelf?
Ancient Sheds
Jun 19, 20 1:05 pm
depends how closely those boards are placed and top shelf header....
Chad Miller
Jun 19, 20 1:11 pm
I know there was a Japanese architect that did a summer cottage that was only supported in the four corners with custom designed wardrobes - everything else was a non load bearing glazing system.
For the life of me I can't remember the architects name though.
How honest do you want it to be? Do columns with shelves between, that don’t need the shelves to do their job count?
J. James R.
Jun 19, 20 3:57 pm
So, basically, there's a dumb wall that I don't want to move because it brings a lot of complications...
It's about 9' and 7'6" high. It supports a beam from drooping above it where attic joists connect together. It sits on top of a 1' I-beam in the basement.
I'm basically going to replace it with ~6' of it with 8" wide 12/4 S2S planks (2-13/16" thick) set about 14" off center with offset shelves dado-jointed shelves every roughly 16" vertically.
atelier nobody
Jun 19, 20 5:49 pm
12/4 certainly sounds better than doing the uprights with 1x8s, and what you are proposing might work but someone'll need to calc it. If you can't calc it yourself, you'll need to hire an engineer.
You should also check whether there's any lateral load on the wall (there rarely is on interior walls, but it could happen).
archanonymous
Jun 20, 20 5:07 pm
But also if it is your house (and this isn't a job for someone else) just say fuck it and eyeball it, that's how it was done for all of history with mostly good results.
J. James R.
Jun 19, 20 3:58 pm
I can't even find drawings, projects or products for "structural shelving" except a few mid-century designs where the walls were made from "appearance"-grade 5/4 2x4" but never wrapped in drywall / plaster.
randomised
Jun 20, 20 4:05 am
Not sure if I understand what you are really trying to do without drawings, but can't you structurally work towards removing the load bearing wall entirely and fit whatever bookshelf you want underneath that, instead of trying to make the bookshelf load bearing? Other option could be to make a kind of "vierendeel" truss to replace the wall and put some extra horizontal dividers in them as shelfs? Sorry don't really know the proper lingo in English.
randomised
Jun 21, 20 11:09 am
I'm not suggesting that either Rick. I'm suggesting a Vierendeel truss the size of the load bearing wall with some horizontal dividers in them at places so you have your shelves for books.
revolutionary poet
Jun 20, 20 3:37 pm
Can our books bear the load? or shall we burn them all and erase our history at our convenience, non?
curtkram
Jun 22, 20 12:31 am
we're burning statues, not books
randomised
Jun 22, 20 10:30 am
For now...there have been book burnings in the States in the last decade or so (or two): 50 Shades of Grey & Harry Potter, both the Quran and the Bible, some memoir of an American army vet and the book Cop Killer about Mumia Abu-Jamal...
archinine
Jun 20, 20 5:29 pm
Seems like the columns suggested, something like 3 of them ~3’ OC with clips or angles carrying the shelves would be easiest rather than having the shelves be integral to the load bearing. Would also be much easier to perform calcs. Also curious about the owner situation, if this is for you or a client. I wonder how obvious it would be to someone who owned the house later that the shelving system was load bearing, should they want to renovate. The columns would be more obvious and allow more flexibility in the case of a redesign at a later point.
citizen
Jun 20, 20 8:45 pm
Question asked and answered.
leriot
Jun 21, 20 5:24 am
Try changing the question to whether a beam can be a bookshelf. I did something like that before.
Medusa
Jun 21, 20 9:32 am
If you are just trying to remove a small section of the load bearing wall (~3-4 ft), you can probably treat it like a door opening with an appropriately sized header and king/jack studs on either side. If you are trying to create a substantial opening, you still need to support your load from above and safely transfer it to the structure below. You will likely need either a beam that is supplemental to what you already have, or replace your existing beam to handle a longer span. Then, just insert your bookshelf into the hole. There are a lot of different ways to detail this, but it's up to your preference and budget.
I busted out a 16' length of exterior wall from my house and used an LVL section. This was at an exterior wall with an eave, so I had the contractor cut the existing attic joists and rafters and reframe them into the new beam. The new beam supports carry the load directly to the foundation. This was the expensive way of doing it, but it also hides the big ass beam. I also used LVL header over a ~13' run of windows. Check your applicable code for the required design loads, and then check on any of the lumber manufacturer's websites (Weyerhauser, Georgia-Pacific, etc) for guidance with sizing. Most importantly, be aware of your load paths.
Volunteer
Jun 21, 20 11:56 am
.
Jaetten
Jun 22, 20 6:11 am
could even shelve between the timber columns
, too.
Non Sequitur
Jun 22, 20 6:13 am
Those pendant fixtures and yellow Walls have got to go tho. Also, who covers up nice hardwood floors with giant rugs?
Jaetten
Jun 22, 20 7:15 am
Maybe they like warm feet without slippers?
Non Sequitur
Jun 22, 20 7:30 am
what do you have against fluffy bunny slippers?
Jaetten
Jun 22, 20 7:39 am
They might have a dog that attacks slippers
natematt
Jun 22, 20 1:41 pm
To echo some of the responses above. Sure, you could do it, but it's probably easier/smarter to just fake it if the design isn't entirely reliant on the idea.
Say if there was a load-bearing wall, could it be swapped out for a open-on-both-sides shelving system that used 1" x 8" hardwoods like walnut or cherry?
maybe... missing a healthy amount of context here.
Can it? Sure. Should it? Less sure.
come to think about it, I don't recall ever seeing a load-bearing section at Ikea.
i feel like i need to talk to a structural engineer about using paper products for columns. surely there is a leed credit here somewhere?
A weird way to frame the question. I mean, if you can build a satisfactory load-bearing structure out of vertical 1x8s, then put shelves between them, yes. But 1x8s seem like weak sauce, i.e., would likely bend under a load unless braced in a carefully considered way.
So then, can the shelves be configured in such a way that they appropriately brace the 1x8s?
Time to pull out those structures notes!
Steel plate!
Can a load bearing wall be a bookshelf?
depends how closely those boards are placed and top shelf header....
I know there was a Japanese architect that did a summer cottage that was only supported in the four corners with custom designed wardrobes - everything else was a non load bearing glazing system.
For the life of me I can't remember the architects name though.
Shigeru Ban, Furniture House 1
http://www.shigerubanarchitects.com/works/1995_furniture-house-1/index.html
That's the one - thanks!
How honest do you want it to be? Do columns with shelves between, that don’t need the shelves to do their job count?
So, basically, there's a dumb wall that I don't want to move because it brings a lot of complications...
It's about 9' and 7'6" high. It supports a beam from drooping above it where attic joists connect together. It sits on top of a 1' I-beam in the basement.
I'm basically going to replace it with ~6' of it with 8" wide 12/4 S2S planks (2-13/16" thick) set about 14" off center with offset shelves dado-jointed shelves every roughly 16" vertically.
12/4 certainly sounds better than doing the uprights with 1x8s, and what you are proposing might work but someone'll need to calc it. If you can't calc it yourself, you'll need to hire an engineer.
You should also check whether there's any lateral load on the wall (there rarely is on interior walls, but it could happen).
But also if it is your house (and this isn't a job for someone else) just say fuck it and eyeball it, that's how it was done for all of history with mostly good results.
I can't even find drawings, projects or products for "structural shelving" except a few mid-century designs where the walls were made from "appearance"-grade 5/4 2x4" but never wrapped in drywall / plaster.
Not sure if I understand what you are really trying to do without drawings, but can't you structurally work towards removing the load bearing wall entirely and fit whatever bookshelf you want underneath that, instead of trying to make the bookshelf load bearing? Other option could be to make a kind of "vierendeel" truss to replace the wall and put some extra horizontal dividers in them as shelfs? Sorry don't really know the proper lingo in English.
I'm not suggesting that either Rick. I'm suggesting a Vierendeel truss the size of the load bearing wall with some horizontal dividers in them at places so you have your shelves for books.
Can our books bear the load? or shall we burn them all and erase our history at our convenience, non?
we're burning statues, not books
For now...there have been book burnings in the States in the last decade or so (or two): 50 Shades of Grey & Harry Potter, both the Quran and the Bible, some memoir of an American army vet and the book Cop Killer about Mumia Abu-Jamal...
Seems like the columns suggested, something like 3 of them ~3’ OC with clips or angles carrying the shelves would be easiest rather than having the shelves be integral to the load bearing. Would also be much easier to perform calcs. Also curious about the owner situation, if this is for you or a client. I wonder how obvious it would be to someone who owned the house later that the shelving system was load bearing, should they want to renovate. The columns would be more obvious and allow more flexibility in the case of a redesign at a later point.
Question asked and answered.
Try changing the question to whether a beam can be a bookshelf. I did something like that before.
If you are just trying to remove a small section of the load bearing wall (~3-4 ft), you can probably treat it like a door opening with an appropriately sized header and king/jack studs on either side. If you are trying to create a substantial opening, you still need to support your load from above and safely transfer it to the structure below. You will likely need either a beam that is supplemental to what you already have, or replace your existing beam to handle a longer span. Then, just insert your bookshelf into the hole. There are a lot of different ways to detail this, but it's up to your preference and budget.
I busted out a 16' length of exterior wall from my house and used an LVL section. This was at an exterior wall with an eave, so I had the contractor cut the existing attic joists and rafters and reframe them into the new beam. The new beam supports carry the load directly to the foundation. This was the expensive way of doing it, but it also hides the big ass beam. I also used LVL header over a ~13' run of windows. Check your applicable code for the required design loads, and then check on any of the lumber manufacturer's websites (Weyerhauser, Georgia-Pacific, etc) for guidance with sizing. Most importantly, be aware of your load paths.
.
could even shelve between the timber columns , too.
Those pendant fixtures and yellow Walls have got to go tho. Also, who covers up nice hardwood floors with giant rugs?
Maybe they like warm feet without slippers?
what do you have against fluffy bunny slippers?
They might have a dog that attacks slippers
To echo some of the responses above. Sure, you could do it, but it's probably easier/smarter to just fake it if the design isn't entirely reliant on the idea.