I could rehash the hilarity of this all, but Shapiro says it best. I say let the zone stay occupied, and let them devolve into tyranny while America watches Orwell’s ‘Animal Farm’ play out in real life.
Non Sequitur
Jun 12, 20 2:29 pm
love the shirt that random wanker screaming "who do work for" in the background.
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 2:44 pm
Their list of demands is fucking beyond hilarious. They want free college, but claim to be “separate from the US”. I say let them succeed and then charge them out of country tuition hahahhah. They want to abolish all courts, and release everyone from prison. Oh please start with the cannibals! Please! We’ve been so good these past 3 months, and Tiger King is over...we need more entertainment:)
square.
Jun 12, 20 2:51 pm
some demands are out there, but
free/extremely cheap college is common in most of the developed world (college used to be affordable in this country not that long ago). there used to be plenty of people that scoffed at free secondary education. or any education.
Financing tuition through taxes works for other countries. In 2014, Germany abolished tuition for all students from the European Union. Ireland, France, Norway, Sweden and Denmark charge no tuition for all European Union students, and provide low-interest loans to cover other college expenses: in Sweden, at a rate of just 0.13 percent. In Australia and Britain, public tuition is half what Americans pay, and in Israel, a 10th. In Australia, students repay loans as a percentage of income when they reach a livable income threshold.
They don’t live in the country anymore according to them, so they pay out of state tuition.
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 3:27 pm
I agree with the idea of cheaper college.
drums please, Fab?
Jun 12, 20 5:33 pm
.
SneakyPete
Jun 12, 20 2:59 pm
"Shapiro says it best"
Fuck off. Fuck off. Fuck off. FUCK. OFF.
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 3:23 pm
He’s a smart lad
tduds
Jun 12, 20 5:32 pm
No he isn't.
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 5:38 pm
people with different opinions are not smart.
tduds
Jun 12, 20 5:45 pm
Not what I said.
tduds
Jun 12, 20 5:50 pm
Like two days ago I accused you of insisting on rehashing the same argument everytime it comes up, as if we've never talked about it before. Lo and behold:
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 5:55 pm
So we can only cite left biased media?
tduds
Jun 12, 20 9:08 pm
Not what I said.
boraliaarthur
Jun 14, 20 4:53 pm
Shapiro uses intimidation tactics, such as faster-than-average speaking, talking over his opponent, things like that to make you think he's "winning" the argument.
Everyday Architect
Jun 12, 20 3:06 pm
Two things...
Thanks for not posting this in Thread Central.
Is there an article or video that isn't from Shapiro that I could read/watch to catch up on this ... whatever it is that's going on? I don't really feel giving him another view and more advertising revenue.
Non Sequitur
Jun 12, 20 3:11 pm
who is this shapiro chap? The only other shapiro I've heard of is this ambulance chasing wanker:
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 3:25 pm
EA, I don’t see why you can’t watch his video. He’s a very logical guy that presents a respectable and honest conservative perspective. He is not a trumpster either.
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 3:25 pm
Can’t watch people I disagree with is a ridiculous notion.
Everyday Architect
Jun 12, 20 3:37 pm
I never said anything about disagreeing with him or that I wouldn't watch it. I said I don't feel like giving him revenue through clicks but that's all. It's a simple request ... not a demand. At this point, without watching the video, it's anybody's guess as to what you're even going on about. If it's more than a fringe issue, I'm sure there are other outlets writing/posting about it. Even a quick synopsis in your own words would be better than some vague references and a link.
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 4:20 pm
I don’t know. I’m sure that there are vids of it. Synapsis: Antifa and or some others took over 8 blocks in Seattle. Their “socialist anarchist” utopia devolved into a police state within 24 hours. Armed members demanded ID to enter and leave, threatening to “blow your mf brains out” and that “they are the police now”. Because they were graffiti on wrong buildings or something. So basically they have a wall, a violent police force, stop and frisk policy, etc. all the things they sought to escape.
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 4:21 pm
I say let it play out. It’s like a social experiment.
tduds
Jun 12, 20 5:39 pm
I haven't really been following the day to day too closely but I'm also
down with letting it play out.
Everyday Architect
Jun 12, 20 5:48 pm
Oh, you're talking about the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (#CHAZ). If Shapiro is only talking about the things you just mentioned, he (and you) are quite far off from what seems to actually be happening. Of course, if you had looked for other sources to corroborate what you accepted from Shapiro, you would have known that. Here are a couple of local articles people might find interesting:
Hahah. Yeah, those are definitely not biased sources.
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 6:33 pm
First, residents pay taxes for police protection of property. If police are not allowed to protect citizens because the mayor is on a far leftist political crusade the state has breached their contract. The public should protest by not paying their taxes. They should sue the state for property damages as well due to state abandonment of police protection.
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 6:40 pm
I also have a feeling that if an armed occupation of right wingers took over an 8 block area of a major city, checked ids, damaged property, and tried to extort businesses, those two papers would NOT write the same thing. This is hypocrisy at its finest. These fucktards have zero authority to hold a neighborhood siege. They weren’t voted in. So much for “democracy”.
Weren't you the one that brought up the armed ranchers who took over the wildlife refuge recently ... how'd that end for you?
...
Also, ask the people in the neighborhood, not Ben Shapiro, if they feel like they are under siege.
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 6:50 pm
Yes, I did. Weren’t you the one that justified the raid that ended in ones death?
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 6:52 pm
The situation is also far different. The refuge was a piece of land. This is a city filled with residents, some who may oppose the occupation....anyway, see police chiefs vid below...
Everyday Architect
Jun 12, 20 6:58 pm
I justified nothing in my statement. I was simply trying to point out that you're not even close to comparing apples with other apples
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 8:03 pm
Right, so if the occupation was by a group of armed right wingers, would the tactic of vandalism, and taking over 8 city blocks, including a police station be acceptable? Can right wingers do the same?
lol @ chiding me for saying Ben Shapiro isn't credible but dismissing the largest newspaper in the PNW because it's "biased"
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 12, 20 11:17 pm
Where's the part where it dawns on lax, that the "occupation was by a group of armed right wingers" happened, some 300+ years ago, and that it happened in the 20th and 21st century too. Randy Weaver comes to mind, those fucking ranchers, and any of those white nationalists...
"residents pay taxes for police protection of property"
Literally stating what police are about, and the fallacy that they are there to protect "people"...
You know what other property owners paid "police" for property protection? Slave owners.
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 11:31 pm
Ha. Cool, so when if steal your car, or vandalize your house you not calling the cops? Fuck design, I should just become a robber in Seattle!
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 11:34 pm
There are laws against damaging people’s property and stuff. The cops are there to enforce the law.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 12, 20 11:53 pm
The answer to your two questions; In Minneapolis, police don't rush out if my car is stolen. If they're not busy killing black men, then a report is taken. Second, what kind of vandalism? TP? Eggs? Paper bag of dog shit? No, I won't call the cops. Do you know how copping works?
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 2:11 am
You know what I mean.
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 2:19 am
And your hyperbole isn’t helping the real situation. The statistics don’t support that claim that black men are being hunted down by cops. In 2019 14 unarmed blacks were killed and 25 unarmed whites. Of course there are more blacks per capita, because they only represent 13% of the population, but black neighborhoods are also typically higher crime neighborhoods, and are more heavily policed. Yes it’s a problem, no it’s not the main problem facing the black community. Facts are facts. This isn’t to minimize the issue, and zero unarmed people should be shot in a perfect world, but the hyperbole is just creating paranoia. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police-shootings-2019/
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 2:21 am
I don’t like cops, but also don’t see how a world without cops can exist unless a) everyone is armed and capable of self protection b) crime goes away for the first time in history c) we replace cops with some other security force that are completely free of all bad human traits.
Those numbers should also take the socioeconomic situation into consideration I suppose, to get a more complete picture:
"Previous research examining decisions to shoot using computer simulations has found that people tend to be biased toward shooting Black suspects (i.e., participants tend to be quick to shoot Black suspects and to mistakenly shoot unarmed Black suspects). Additionally, research has found that White people tend to perceive poor Whites as a threat and respond negatively toward poor White people. The present work examines influences of both race and socioeconomic status on decisions to shoot during a computer simulation task. The results indicate that socioeconomic status level of the suspect influenced participants’ responses to the shooter task, while race of the suspect had little impact. Specifically, participants’ were faster to shoot armed low socioeconomic status individuals as compared to armed high socioeconomic status individuals. These findings suggest that stereotypic associations between low socioeconomic status people and criminality may influence decisions to shoot."
The graph is misleading though. Those numbers in the bar graph represent all deaths by police. They make a mention of unarmed in the paragraph, but the bar graph is not representative of unarmed only. Maths
See data below. Can’t post pics on here, but from the WAPO interactive graphics in 2019 1% of blacks killed by police were unarmed. 2% of whites killed by police were unarmed. Imo, this isn’t about race as much as general abuse of power.
"The growing intolerance of freedom of thought, the inability to talk across divides, the way that most of the British establishment, police included, feels the need to pledge fealty to the cause — as though all terrified of ending up on the wrong side — points to a crisis of more than confidence. It is evidence of an underlying morbidity."
(one can replace "British establishment" in that quote with any western establishment really)
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 6:48 pm
“What we are seeing is nothing more or less than the death of the liberal ideal.” Great read. I agree 100%. I was always a liberal, but the liberals turned into pearl clutching leftists.
BulgarBlogger
Jun 12, 20 4:15 pm
Shapiro all the way! Trump 2020.
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 4:32 pm
Well, not a fan of Trump, but these dummies has 4 years to get their shit together and ran Biden? The DNC is incompetent. They can’t run a country if they can’t even run a campaign. Now, they insist on bringing the conversation to the far left again. It’s like they are trying to guarantee Trump the win.
BulgarBlogger
Jun 12, 20 4:37 pm
Who said I'm a trump fan? but I'm definitely not a democrap.
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 5:00 pm
Not saying you are...just not much of a choice.
tduds
Jun 12, 20 5:35 pm
"It's me, the middling uninteresting white guy who proudly claims to be 'independent' but only speaks up to criticize liberals and also votes Republican 99% of the time."
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 5:39 pm
Liberals? They don’t seem very liberal.
tduds
Jun 12, 20 5:44 pm
I didn't ask for an example
but way to provide one.
BulgarBlogger
Jun 12, 20 6:01 pm
How many republicans believe in gay rights and are pro choice? I call that Independent.
Ancient Sheds
Jun 12, 20 7:09 pm
problem is people equate Liberal and Conservative mainly to useless moral policies, there is also the economic front which is far more important and international relations. Only two (2) things matter ever: 1) Economy, 2) Defense
SneakyPete
Jun 12, 20 7:32 pm
"How many republicans believe in gay rights and are pro choice?"
Plenty, but don't let that stop you from feeling special like mommy said.
Ancient Sheds
Jun 12, 20 7:51 pm
If you're into making money, you'd make wedding cakes for everybody, etc...
tduds
Jun 15, 20 12:39 pm
How many Republicans consistently vote for anti-equal rights / anti-choice candidates because tax cuts are more important to them than their alleged commitment to equality?
Rusty!
Jun 12, 20 6:06 pm
I like to imagine x-jla has as punchable face as Ben Shapiro. All-in-one toolbag.
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 6:23 pm
“I want to punch people who have different ideas” - not liberal
Rusty!
Jun 12, 20 7:02 pm
I don't wanna punch anything. Ben just has a punchable face and you sound like you have one as well.
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 7:57 pm
Oh, ok. Would you like to participate in the conversation, or did you just want to make that boring statement?
Ancient Sheds
Jun 12, 20 7:58 pm
I'm thumb upping X-jla for just point out the obvious about "freedom of speech" and "debate" - none of which exists - thank you Social Media.
Rusty!
Jun 12, 20 9:24 pm
x-jla. I love me a good conversation, but this ain't it. Ur a Muppet propaganda generator. Every single issue you take on is the dumbest take possible. Turn off Fox news. It's rotting your tiny brain.
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 2:25 am
Rusty, you are soooo boring man.
curtkram
Jun 13, 20 11:51 am
he's gone past fox news. x- is a Qanon acolyte.
square.
Jun 13, 20 12:05 pm
increasingly unhinge.. what xlax doesn't get is it's not always the content that is troubling, it's the presentation. which is worrisome.
Listen to the Black Female police chief herself....
Everyday Architect
Jun 12, 20 6:54 pm
... address her audience of police officers with no one else there to question her.
And her comments that there were protesters "patrolling" the streets were walked back and clarified later as anecdotal accounts with nothing formally reported ... "'That has not happened affirmatively,' Best said, adding that the police department had based earlier claims on anecdotal reports, including in the news and on social media. 'We haven’t had any formal reports of this occurring.'"
[sarcasm]Very credible source with nothing to gain.[/sarcasm]
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 7:54 pm
Maybe you should watch the Shapiro vid. There is a video of them “new police” threatening people.
SneakyPete
Jun 12, 20 7:56 pm
I'm 100% sure that Shapiro made sure to research and include the proper context for said video, too. SHIT MY SARCASM SWITCH IS STUCK IN THE ON POSITION.
Everyday Architect
Jun 12, 20 8:45 pm
I decided to open the Shapiro video. I didn't make it past the 2 min mark because he's getting his information on one Fox News video of anecdotal reports and claims that have been debunked, and anonymous user comments on Reddit also debunked.
After the 2 min mark I skimmed through to find the video you claim is there of the "new police" threatening people. There is some video of what looks like people trying to tell others not to vandalize someone's business and saying they "are the police of the community now," ... [sarcasm] no way they could simply mean that the entire community needs to police each other rather than engage in lawlessness [/sarcasm]. But then the video cuts out to some other recording (not really clear if they are from the same source) played as background to some still photos from who knows where. Ben says it's from a youtube video from inside the autonomous zone but gives no proof to corroborate it or even attribute it to an account where it could be corroborated.
What a joke! And you believed this stuff at face value!? You swallowed that bait, hook, line, and sinker. I had more respect for you prior to watching those 2 minutes. You claim to be an independent thinker not swayed by either side, right or left. I call BS on that garbage right now. You've only shown that save for maybe a few issues, you're just a right-wing stooge.
First, New York Post ranks as Right-Center bias just so we're up to speed on that and it's clear that you've got all your information so far from right and right-center media. Doesn't make it fake or 100% truth, but just pointing out there is a bias there as you claimed about my articles.
Second, have you even read the article? Look for how it asserts that Raz Simone has been accused of something and see if it offers evidence to corroborate the accusation. Raz himself denies it (as pointed out in the article).
The fuller video that the NY Post linked to (that Ben Shapiro edited), shows a scuffle, yes. I didn't see any guns. I didn't hear anyone claim there was a gun. If you think this kind of thing wouldn't happen as a community tries to prevent people from simply taking advantage of no police presence to engage in lawlessness, you're an idiot.
I did hear someone, not Raz, claim that "we are the police of this community" in an attempt to prevent someone from vandalizing someone's property (thought you'd be all in favor of property rights). Again, we don't know the context of that statement. Sure it fits a narrative that you're hearing about this group being accused of taking up the mantle of police, but I'm not seeing any hard evidence of it (are they detaining people and locking them up? have they started wearing uniforms or something else to show their authority?). They could simply mean that we all (including the man tagging the wall in that "we") have to look out for one another and they were looking out for the business owner who was getting vandalized. That's speculation on my part, but it seems like so is everything you're reading and watching.
The article links to another video showing Raz Simone telling people who are legally allowed to carry firearms and wish to do so, to keep it to the edges, not in the middle, and that he doesn't really even want to see it happening. This was in response to a shooting. Sounds like he and you would get along just fine based on your previous comments about gun ownership rights.
Yes, this largely peaceful space is peaceful because it’s filled with like minded people. The US is a place where I should be able to walk around with a MAGA hat. Something tells me that peaceful would end there.
Ancient Sheds
Jun 12, 20 9:46 pm
x-jla, correct, you should be able to walk around wearing anything at all times. but, you forget, there are religious people who think they are correct because they have opinions and everything they assume is true and accordingly you're wrong because you're not into their religion. I say we just start stoning MAGA hat wearing people....Imagine if design studio was run this way?
I never said that the place is a violent disaster area, I said that if this experiment were to be allowed to play our over time, the same problems and authoritarian actors would emerge. The useful idiots are very peaceful. Very peaceful. Voids of power attract tyranny. You completely missed the irony of a quasi security force and hierarchy poping up almost instantly lol
Ancient Sheds
Jun 12, 20 9:54 pm
Liberland? /\ (the whole void theory)
When I played SimCity, jack shit happened in Voids.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 12, 20 10:12 pm
The people with guns? You mean these good Americans?
I'll take these guys any day of the week.
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 10:51 pm
Sheds, Liberland is a voluntary space. This is a superimposed space. I really want it to work, but by the demands made, I’m pretty sure a voluntary fulfillment of the demands is not possible or what they are desiring. They want to force their ideology on others, and want to force others to fulfill their demands. These are ideologues. No different than a religious cult taking over a city block. Their demands are About as removed from reality that only someone ideologically possessed could actually believe in them.
Ancient Sheds
Jun 13, 20 1:24 pm
This is voluntary surrender. It's kind of like people from certain religions who tolerate extremists because their ideologies actually align, just one group works and operates in the real world, the other has nothing to lose.
Ancient Sheds
Jun 12, 20 6:55 pm
or Liberland?
x-jla
Jun 12, 20 8:08 pm
I’m all about alternatives. Just don’t impose it on people by taking over occupied land. Go to the forest and set up a commune. The Seattle thing is different. They don’t own that land. Other people do.
Ancient Sheds
Jun 12, 20 8:50 pm
a) It's Seattle, they are the "anarchist" capital of the USA, like constant clashes with police, but entirely not fruitful. I literally think of Rick B yelling at cops and then going back to his basement. These are not serious people.
b) right now it's bad optics to do shit about them and for the most part, we're in a phase with Covid in which not all businesses should be open anyway.
c) like those cops in Chicago, if you don't like cops - ok, good luck, you're on your own, we'll just eat popcorn and lounge
d) if these "anarchists" have any balls it will end in a standoff and since they are not from a legendary Mormon clan, they'll end up like Waco, TX....but see a) - nothing will happen. Trump is literally muscling against vegan's with guns - no one cares - except for the people not getting 911 call responses in time.
ancient, they shut down a police precinct, so that's a real thing
Ancient Sheds
Jun 13, 20 1:23 pm
again, if they were a real threat they would all be dead by now. It's Seattle.
curtkram
Jun 13, 20 2:39 pm
They were never a threat. It's clear the police were the only threat isn't it?
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 3:01 pm
What I’ve learned in 2020. Arson is ok if you are legitimately mad. Armed takeovers are also ok if done by the left. Viruses can’t spread in Home Depot.
Ancient Sheds
Jun 13, 20 3:43 pm
true JLa-x on Home Depot, they have a kids spraying shit.
Curt, stop going social media on me. I didn't say the cops were a threat, I'm saying in a nice a way possible - CHAZ is a fucking joke, Seattle's over the top liberal values are a joke, It's not serious.
Try doing that shit in Texas, right? It's Seattle. Radically cerebral, but pretty much non-threat. I'm a philosopher I know this, I'm not the guy brawling, I'm the guy talking my friend back down after the brawl. That's Seattle.
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 3:51 pm
Exactly sheds. They aren’t a physical threat, but the elected officials that disregard the people to cater to the fringe is a threat.
Ancient Sheds
Jun 13, 20 4:00 pm
It's like dealing with a spoiled brat x-jla, you could discipline them but they'll call social services and make a scene and then wonder why their life goes to shit while blaming everyone else, or just let the spoiled brat express themselves, give them some candy, and go on about your life. I wouldn't say the elected officials are cowards or disregarding their voters, they just figured - let these brats have candy for now and we'll save our police officers, arrest them later....These aren't people with balls, discipline, integrity to their cause, etc... like the Bundy's or Montana Militia's... if they are this will end badly, so I hope they're just youtubers with opinions.
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 4:51 pm
Agree. I still like the idea of releasing the prisoners like they are demanding. We can drop them off in CHAZ and let them live free. I’m sure they will become model citizens without the pesky police. I vote that the first guy we release is the face eating cannibal.
Ancient Sheds
Jun 13, 20 5:02 pm
cage match like this
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 5:05 pm
Please. We’ve been so bored during lockdown, and already finished Tiger King. Entertain us
Ancient Sheds
Jun 13, 20 5:36 pm
I vote Trump vs Biden and a Honey Badger. two (2) geriatric retards and a bad ass animal. 4 rounds at 0:30.. only speedos (vomit)...go ...John Madden narrates?
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 5:54 pm
Hahaha. I have my money on the honey badger.
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 10:39 am
here, can’t post images as a reply.
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 10:46 am
Also, don’t ignore the fact that while blacks are killed at a higher rate by police, they also commit a higher rate of crime and therefore have more police interactions. My point isn't to minimize the problem, but to explain it. You can’t solve something without understanding it in more depth. Reducing crime in poor neighborhoods is key. Increasing opportunity in those areas is key to reduce crime. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43
square.
Jun 13, 20 11:14 am
there's also a correlation between crime and poverty that is more relevant, less so than your highlighting of the correlation between crime and race (yikes). one can attempt to suppress crime through policing it, but this does nothing to address the root of the problem, which is more related to income inequality than anything else. people with adequate means to support themselves (aka those who are paid fairly for what they do) commit less crimes, too. this trend only deteriorates when income becomes excessive, at which point white collar crimes and exploitation become the norm. but don't worry, you probably won't go to jail for that (at least not as long).
Holy shit stfu. I literally said that crime is related to lack of opportunity (poverty). You dishonest fucko
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 11:42 am
“Reducing crime in poor neighborhoods is key. Increasing opportunity in those areas is key to reduce crime.” - x-jla
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 11:43 am
It was nearly impossible to miss. We aren’t listening to one another.
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 11:44 am
Race and poverty has correlations that stem from all sorts of things, including systemic racism and latent effects of racial divisions / inequality
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 11:46 am
Soooo, solving that is more effective than banning police. Banning police will cause a rise in crime, will cause companies to leave, etc.
square.
Jun 13, 20 11:58 am
it was the very last part of your stupid paragraph, so yes it is "easy to miss" because you bury under a layer of other bullshit. you were signaling and emphasizing race as a cause, and policing as a solution, over opportunity, which was written as an afterthought. if you really believed that "increasing opportunity" was the most important thing, you would start with that. this is exactly like your other posts about rioting, and you refuse to acknowledge exactly you are doing. throwing in opportunity as a token argument after dedicating the majority of your words to race = crime, more police! does nothing other than offer empty signaling.
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 12:18 pm
You are intentionally misrepresenting what I said. I literally didn’t say “more police”.....I said “more opportunity”. Empowering communities is more effective than “banning police” and creating “police free zones”. That will have no real sustainable effect. The media and opportunistic activists on the right and left are using the black community to create a narrative for the purpose of exploitation. Also, it’s not as simple to say that poverty = crime. I lived in a poor area of east Africa for a few months. There was almost no crime at all. ZERO. It was the safest I’ve ever felt. The poverty was way greater than anything in the US. The difference was the strength of the community, and the cultural mindset.
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 12:19 pm
In that particular region the only real threat was hippo attacks, lions, and rare but occasional militia raids.
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 12:24 pm
Square, “ Also, don’t ignore the fact that while blacks are killed at a higher rate by police, they also commit a higher rate of crime and therefore have more police interactions. My point isn't to minimize the problem, but to explain it.”. That’s the “layer of bullshit” that buried my point? Seems more like a paragraph intro.
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 12:31 pm
If you looked at the fbi link and compared it to the wapo data, it would make perfect sense. You don’t want to look at data, because it challenges your religion of leftism. It like a bible thumper refusing to look at geological data that challenges the 5000 yo earth narrative. It’s very annoying. I’m not right or left. Just a political atheist
square.
Jun 13, 20 1:09 pm
no where did i say i disagree with the data (?). again, more layers of bullshit (straw-man argument). i am challenging your overemphasis on the causality of the data.
do you wonder why so many people consistently have issues with the way you present your arguments, and yourself, on these threads? it's either a) that you are solely right and misunderstood by everyone (all the "leftists" you are constantly at war with) or b) because you endlessly throw out bombastic, unformed and ideological claims and stories to invent fake arguments with others and increasingly yourself (4 posts in a row without a response.. again you're giving trump a run for his twitter money).
aka, you're just a troll.
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 1:39 pm
I’m at war with ideologues, just so happens they are mainly on the left in here. I presented data, you attempted to accused me of underhanded racism, based on the fact that you didn’t read what I wrote past the first sentence. Then made the exact same point that I made. Then accused me of burying the point under 2 sentences that were setting up the point. Who’s trolling?
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 1:46 pm
Besides that, my argument is very simple. Reduce crime = reduced police interactions. Declaring a police free zone is like declaring a heart attack free zone without addressing the cause of heart attacks. If you want to reduce police presence, reduce crime. More police interactions, racism or not, results in more potential for police abuse.
curtkram
Jun 13, 20 1:47 pm
Square. Jla literally has 5 posts in a row in this thread where he's just responding to himself. Is that really worth engaging?
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 1:55 pm
Lol, yeah I was naughty by posting in multiple posts, therefore no need to address the point. The adult version of “I retire champion”
Everyday Architect
Jun 13, 20 11:30 am
jla-x, your not even attempting to see the point in what b3ta was saying. You’re looking at just the numbers of unarmed people shot in 2019. The graph b3ta posted was for 2015-2019. You’re also only looking at the total numbers without accounting for demographic percentages.
“In 2019, 55 unarmed people were shot and killed by police, with white people accounting for 25 of them, while 14 of them were black.” this is from the WaPo article b3ta posted and matches the numbers you show above.
Here’s the difference in total deaths and the likelihood of someone being shot. 25 white unarmed people out of 55 unarmed people is 45%. Non-Hispanic white people make up about 60% of the total US population, yet less than 60% of the time a cop shoots and kills an unarmed person, that person is white.
For black people, 14 out of 55 is 25%. Blacks or African Americans make up about 13% of the US population. Yet more than 13% of the time a cop shoots an unarmed person, that person is black.
This is why people state that you are more likely to be shot if you’re black. If that wasn’t the case, the percentages would reflect a random sampling of the population which would follow the demographic percentages. Applying that concept to the 55 people who were shot while unarmed in 2019: 33 of them would have been white, and 7 of them would have been black. That obviously wasn’t the case and it shows blacks are killed disproportionately compared to whites even though in total numbers more white people were killed.
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 11:40 am
No, you obviously didn’t read what I wrote.
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 11:48 am
I know that. Crime is also related to poverty, and blacks experience more poverty and commit more crime in average. Blacks have more police interactions. Black neighborhoods are more aggressively policed because they have higher crime, and rookie cops are often placed in high crime areas while those with seniority get cushy jobs in the burbs.
square.
Jun 13, 20 11:59 am
then START WITH THIS. you know what you're doing when you throw out vague statistics without explanation. it's called gas-lighting, and it's one of trump's favorite techniques.
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 12:10 pm
It wasn’t vague. I explained it clearly.
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 5:06 pm
Lol. It’s almost comical
Ancient Sheds
Jun 13, 20 5:14 pm
you know Che is(was) cool, unless you knew what he had to do to gain power...it's just funny their name and behavior is an oxymoron. and the best Fascist, the OG fascist himself - a journalist
now how do you make this an architectural discussion?
What would Lebbeus Woods have done?
Rusty!
Jun 13, 20 5:57 pm
x-jla. I understand exactly what you are doing here, ya pea brained moron. Pacific north west always had a whimsical way of dealing with national politics. Let them figure it out. You are using this particular situation to negate the entire push to end lynching of black american men. Dude, fuck you three ways from Sunday. Why has this entire thread not been deleted already? This is a bad look for Archinect.
Ancient Sheds
Jun 13, 20 6:15 pm
Rusty! are you a millenial? wouldn't you want to know what others think?
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 6:24 pm
Dusty ass Rusty- durp thinking is hard duhhh you Like racism because you disagree duhhhh free speech bad except stuff that I like because I’m good ....Duhhh. CHAZ is a bunch of white people using this to promote their political beliefs. It’s exploitation at its finest
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 6:34 pm
Exploitation of the black community and the black psyche by leftists is racism at it’s finest. The Dems have been doing it for years.
x-jla
Jun 13, 20 6:56 pm
The black communities problems will not be solved by white saviors. Anyone who believes that removing police from the black community will result in an era of prosperity and peace is a god damn fool. This is white privilege 2.0 x infinity.
randomised
Jun 14, 20 8:40 am
"Why has this entire thread not been deleted already? This is a bad look for Archinect."
Let's hope they don't. CHAZ is a socio-urban experiment, a no-go zone for the police, we don't see that very often in the western world. Future architecture and urbanism students and social geographers etc. will base their thesis around it, mark my words...this thread will be a valuable resource and be archived in the Trump Presidential Library after he steps down against popular demand in 2032 in favour of Ivana.
x-jla
Jun 14, 20 11:10 am
CHAZ will definitely be a popular thesis topic. Some clear relevance to The Situationists, and Foucault's concept of Heterotopias.
SneakyPete
Jun 15, 20 12:13 pm
"Exploitation of the black community and the black psyche by leftists is racism at it’s finest. The Dems have been doing it for years."
So you believe that and that we should trust the Right and Republicans to, what, do better?
x-jla
Jun 15, 20 12:36 pm
Absolutely not. They are doing the same. Just different brands of BS. When I bring up the disproportionate response to black on black crime, I’m talking mainly about the media. The right media reports it because they can exploit it. The left media doesn’t. Do the care about Black lives or ratings and political agendas? Same for the political leaders. They are presenting stories in way the sows division and creates a sense of panic for the black community.
I watched the entire 45min body cam video of the killing in Atlanta. What actually happened was so very different than what the media outlets were presenting it to be.
First, very sad to watch. I was tearing up the whole time, because I knew what was coming. The video shows a very unfortunate event, not a racist attack as the left media portrays it, or an out of control black thug like the right media portrays it. The man who was shot seemed like a very calm and sweet guy, even funny at times as he made the cop smile with his responses. He was drunk. We’ve ALL been there. He was cordial and cooperative. The cops were also very professional at first. They weren’t being aggressive with the guy. They were just doing their job. Then, in a minute of confusion, the guy seemingly got scared as the cop went to grab his arm. This was a mistake on the cops part, because he should have eased into it being that the guy was drunk and confused. Push led to shove. He grabbed the taser and ran. The cop wrongly reacted by shooting him. Yes, it was excessive force. No, it doesn’t appear to be a racist attack or intentional, more along the lines of poor training and over vigilance. Probably, he subconsciously felt more threatened because the man was black. I don’t know, you don’t know. All I know is that A seemingly cool guy was drunk and got unnecessarily killed. A seemingly decent cop made a horrible call. It’s hard to judge how a person reacts in the heat of the moment. This is different from the Floyd tape. That was a clearly malicious use of force. I think that these situations are probably more common than the Floyd like situations.
SneakyPete
Jun 15, 20 1:02 pm
If racism was something only manifested in individual acts, we wouldn't be here. Pull your head out of your ass.
x-jla
Jun 15, 20 1:04 pm
The hyperbolic presentation of problems is designed to incite fear and anger. That’s how they get viewers. Ask yourself this- did cnn and fox profit or take a loss from the coverage? Did the black community profit or take a loss? Whatever minor bs reforms the political leaders give will not solve the root problems. The root problems in US communities, poor communities of all races, but mainly minorities, are beyond the scope of political action. The problems are social, and require social leadership and change from within. Unlike the civil rights movement where there were blatantly racist policies that could be solved by political will, those policies are no longer on the books. Today’s problems are due to the social latent affects of those policies. How the hell can wen possibly “end racism” by demanding its end? Racism is a disease of ignorance. Ignorance isn’t extinguished through political will. Ignorance is extinguished by enlightenment. And who are we trying to reach? Racists. If you want to “end racism” you need to enlighten racists. This requires a peaceful dialogue, not a divisive reactionary lecturing. The real racists aren’t listening to that. It’s just entrenching them more in their own ignorance.
x-jla
Jun 15, 20 1:15 pm
Sneaky Pete, individuals are the components of society. A virus needs to be cured at the cellular level.
SneakyPete
Jun 15, 20 1:29 pm
It's telling that you equate people to viruses.
x-jla
Jun 15, 20 1:32 pm
I was equating racism to a virus.
SneakyPete
Jun 15, 20 1:49 pm
I may have gotten the wrong idea. Strange, since you normally
choose your words so carefully.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 15, 20 8:25 pm
The cops bought Dylan Roof Burger King after he was calmly arrested for the racist murder of 9 Black Churchgoers. Bought him a burger. So, you'll forgive me if I cast some serious side-eye on these cops "not being racist".
randomised
Jun 16, 20 7:27 am
Buying food for an arrestee makes one a racist?
x-jla
Jun 16, 20 11:59 am
I would have spit in that demented little fuckers food, but how does that make the cops in Atlanta automatically racist?
randomised
Jun 16, 20 4:58 pm
In b3ta-world everybody is a racist unless you're not white or you agree with b3ta-politics.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 16, 20 6:25 pm
Show me the drunk white guy running from police, just one, that was shot in the back. One?
x-jla
Jun 17, 20 1:13 am
It’s awful, but seems less like a policy of racism and more like a deep psychological hyper
x-jla
Jun 17, 20 1:15 am
*hyper vigilance. My point is, how can that be fixed through policy? If it cannot, then how does the methodology we’ve seen transpire this past month work?
randomised
Jun 17, 20 4:22 am
"Show me the drunk white guy running from police, just one, that was shot in the back. One?"
And another argumentum ad ignorantiam from you b3ta, just a fallacy in informal logic...[insert John Locke]
liberty bell
Jun 13, 20 10:39 pm
I mean, j-lxa or whatever his* name is is dumb, we all know that, right?
* Clearly he’s a dude because of course he is.
(I’m on my phone so he’s not ignored. Under my real name Donna Sink he’s ignored.)
x-jla
Jun 14, 20 2:52 am
Yes, he's a very dumb dude.
randomised
Jun 14, 20 8:25 am
Guess the weed kicked in, enjoy the ride Donna!
Non Sequitur
Jun 14, 20 8:27 am
Donna, are you recording the next podcast in this state of inebriation?
x-jla
Jun 15, 20 1:42 pm
Don’t assume my gender.
SneakyPete
Jun 15, 20 5:16 pm
I assume that if you weren't a man you would have said it before now (oh wait before now you couldn't use it as a hypocritical and stupid attempt at irony).
“ In 2014, after Zac Efron had engaged in a fight in Skid Row, law enforcement officials did not make any arrests because they viewed it as mutual combat.“. WTF lol
Ancient Sheds
Jun 14, 20 4:19 pm
the future of zoning, deciding where Zac Efron can get in fights with Skid Row...
randomised
Jun 15, 20 3:36 am
If unarmed police would enter CHAZ and got in a fight with some unarmed protesters, would that be considered a fair fight and would mutual combat apply?
x-jla
Jun 15, 20 1:41 pm
I want to see Zac Efron fight a cop in CHAZ.
tduds
Jun 15, 20 12:44 pm
Right about where I stopped reading this garbage heap of a thread:
x-jla
Jun 15, 20 12:47 pm
I don’t believe that. I think you read it, but just don’t want to engage with the uncomfortable nature of the topics being discussed.
tduds
Jun 15, 20 12:55 pm
I've frankly run out of motivation to rehash the same argument with the same people every few weeks. It was a nice couple of years, but I'm over it. I'm gonna make a thread about cooking and hide out there a while.
Enjoy whatever it is you still get out of this behavior.
x-jla
Jun 15, 20 1:40 pm
Ok, no one is forcing you to engage lol. Why do you find it necessary to state this?
x-jla, every chance you get to bring up your political agenda, you spew dozens and dozens of comments into the Archinect forum in defense of your terribly outdated way of thinking. You are extremely annoying and I won't be responding to you. I just wanted to let you know that most people on this site think you're unhinged.
x-jla
Jun 15, 20 1:13 pm
Incorrect. I’m arguing from a political perspective rooted in classical liberalism (the root philosophy of western civilization)
x-jla
Jun 15, 20 1:31 pm
If you want to undermine the tenants of the base of western civilization you ought to be able to argue with some asshole on the internet
tduds
Jun 15, 20 1:57 pm
tenets.
SneakyPete
Jun 15, 20 2:19 pm
Say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude. At least it's an ethos.
x-jla
Jun 15, 20 2:40 pm
Back to CHAZ.....the idea with that is that their particular Leftists ideology is better equipped to provide social justice and end racism. So, therefore adopt xyz or you are not dedicated to stopping racism. That’s an example of “semantic overload”. Worse, the pajama pants Marxists Provide zero evidence to this assumption, while classical liberalism has tended towards more equality overtime albeit slowly.
drums please, Fab?
Jun 15, 20 4:40 pm
CHAZ is now CHOP. please try to keep up with the birth of this nation! exciting times indeed!
by writing the word "tenants" I think this technically keeps this an architectural conversation? or did we mean "tenements"?
x-jla
Jun 15, 20 9:53 pm
I meant tenets, but my spelling is awful.
Non Sequitur
Jun 15, 20 9:59 pm
.
x-jla
Jun 15, 20 10:04 pm
It’s completely an architectural convo. The situationists come to mind. (Not to be confused with mike the situation of NJ)
Ancient Sheds
Jun 15, 20 10:14 pm
ok, let's make it an architectural/urban planning conversation.
So let's assume this portion of the country is never returned, so to speak. Any estimations on whether they will adopt or create their own zoning or building code? Assuming we're starting from scratch code and zoning wise with existing structures, how might that read?
Will there be a Fire Department if no Police Department? If no fire department, what kind of buildings?
x-jla
Jun 16, 20 12:12 am
Zoning code 1: no person shall have offensive thoughts while standing within 100’ of a public space
x-jla
Jun 16, 20 12:12 am
Zoning code 2: all spaces are public
x-jla
Jun 16, 20 12:15 am
code 3: open flames For recreational use and permitted within CHOP. Protest fires are encouraged and are to not be extinguished unless they threaten a vegan taco shop.
x-jla
Jun 16, 20 12:18 am
Code4: Every public establishment shall have bathrooms for all 78 genders. Failure to accommodate will result in fire. Exemption: vegan taco shops
randomised
Jun 16, 20 5:00 am
Does anyone actually live in CHAP, are there actual residences? Before we talk about fire and police departments...how does it work with the most important thing: garbage collection?
My guess is they got cold feet when they realised what it means to be Autonomous and that's why they renamed it. Very difficult being autonomous when drowning in your own filth with all the trash, rats and excrements floating around, because nobody blocks toilets like vegans do...
Ancient Sheds
Jun 16, 20 6:50 am
cold feet - responsiblity and accountability are a big ordeals for people who fail most their lives, excluding vegan taco shops.
Non Sequitur
Jun 16, 20 8:47 am
It's taco-tuesday folks. I know what I'm making tonight for diner.
x-jla
Jun 16, 20 4:40 pm
It’s like kids who run away and then realize that life is hard on your own.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 16, 20 8:27 pm
Actually, I wonder if CHOP has a porta-potty large enough for this shiite?
curtkram
Jun 16, 20 8:50 pm
CHOP has plenty of porta-potties, and some businesses are letting protests use their facilities. the fire department asked them to remove barriers to allow 13' clear for fire apparatus access. their code is 20', so they were being given somewhat of an exception. the protesters were worried that could leave them exposed to police returning with violence or white nationalists driving into the crowd, which seems to be a thing that happens now. also, there are residents that live above the retail areas. the barricades have blocked some parking garages they would like to use. as far as i can tell, having a bunch of protesters outside your apartment sucks, but police shooting tear gas at your apartment is probably worse.
Ancient Sheds
Jun 16, 20 9:35 pm
good thing we're in a pandemic /\. ah...so the fire department stays. This means wood construction would be allowed? Which means you could build little homes and shacks, get rid of streets and house the homeless....ok I'm running for office in CHOP town.
x-jla
Jun 17, 20 1:09 am
I’m blocking off my street this weekend. I’m only allowing in hot chicks.
SneakyPete
Jun 18, 20 5:45 pm
I'm sure your street will have a person on it, then.
randomised
Jun 16, 20 6:38 am
.
square.
Jun 16, 20 9:15 am
is this comedy? parody? this thread has literally turned into fox/aon... and randomised, i suggest you stick to your own country's cultural affairs.. you have no credibility in posting this from across the ocean. one can spend their time on this thread regurgitating the same paranoid bs about a small minority "movement," OR one could focus on a history that has suppressed any dissent from minorities. maybe some are over reacting (who am i to say.. maybe people are just tired of not being heard?), but the overwhelming history in this country is one built on violence and exploitation, and if your outrage isn't focused there, it's quite telling.
randomised
Jun 16, 20 11:15 am
If only it was comedy :-( You're CANCELLING me because of where I come from? Some would argue that's racist. If your country would take their fucking nukes out of my country and stop occupying us, maybe I would leave this discussion. The US is interfering with everything all over the world all the time, don't be a hypocrite simply because you don't like what you read. By the way, we have BLM protests over here too, statues being vandalised etc. So it is not just an American topic unfortunately. Just doing my part here, pitching in, giving my 2 cents and providing
some sources that otherwise might be overlooked by y'all. It really doesn't hurt to read opinions one does not agree with.
square.
Jun 16, 20 11:26 am
country doesn't = race. shocked i have to explain that to you. i'm not canceling you, i'm questioning your credibility and relevance. in other words, you have no idea what you're talking about in this specific situation happening in seattle (i hope you have at least been there). and this movie isn't informed opinion, its sensationalized fear mongering. you all are creating a wild boogeyman to argue with.. i'm trying to say this is a small fringe issue that doesn't represent "one side." it's akin to trump's insistence on labeling every protestor, including 75 year olds, antifa.
square.
Jun 16, 20 11:45 am
i agree on the nuke point.. but really unclear what that has to do with the social justice warrior video you posted. they would agree with you.
x-jla
Jun 16, 20 11:49 am
A statue of a Quaker abolitionist was vandalized. There isn’t really much logic going on with the statue thing. These kids should wait until they’ve finished their history class to go after statues.
x-jla
Jun 16, 20 11:51 am
“John Greenleaf Whittier did not enslave people, and indeed, was a leading anti-slavery activist in his time, in addition to being a renowned poet,” Celia Caust-Ellenbogen, archivist at the Friends Historical Library of Swarthmore College, wrote in response to an email query by this newspaper.
He was a delegate to the first meeting of the American Anti-Slavery Convention, edited anti-slavery newspapers, helped to establish the Liberty Party, wrote numerous poems supporting the abolitionist cause as well as an 1833 tract in favor of immediate and unconditional emancipation of enslaved people, according to Caust-Ellenbogen.
“However, it is important to acknowledge the reasons why the protesters are so frustrated,” she said.
“While Whittier is celebrated for his poetry and his activist legacy, there are numerous African American poets and activists of his era – such as Frances E.W. Harper, James Madison Bell, and James M. Whitfield – who have received too little recognition. The statues in this country over-represent the influence of White people and under-represent the importance of people of color, especially African American people, in our nation’s history.”
x-jla
Jun 16, 20 11:52 am
Lmfao. The media is of course providing the vandals an excuse...They were angry that black poets in the 1800s weren’t recognized...like they fucking knew who the guy was lmfao!
x-jla
Jun 16, 20 11:53 am
The Media is a disgrace.
randomised
Jun 16, 20 4:45 pm
Square, it is a nativist and segregationist (and thus racist) point of view to ban people from discussing a certain topic because of the country they are from, don't be such a bigot, you're better than that.
Especially in a topic called the autonomous zone, if you don't want to discuss that, don't come to x-jla's thread and whine and complain about it, go hide out in your safe space ;-)
The nuke point was relevant to your comment that I shouldn't interfere in this discussion because I'm not American (you sound a lot like Trump tbh). Since my country is occupied by American armed forces and your nuclear weapons, I have a say in any discussion about American politics or culture etc., your politics are my politics (unfortunately).
You have committed and are committing cultural genocide wherever you send your troops and station your nukes, so don't get me started...Before your invasion we were a cultured people, could have intelligent conversations in French, German or English in cafés drinking proper coffee from porcelain cups (not to be confused with your bars or Starbucks), European music was played on the radio (you should see my dad's record collection!), we were wearing decent clothes that could be passed on from generation to generation and our cinema, my god our cinema...you came in and fucked it all up with your sneakers, disgusting McDonalds "food", coffee in paper cups with straws, your Hollywood blockbusters, pop music and your fear mongering against our superior social democracy.
So, I think I will stick around here and annoy you a little more...
SneakyPete
Jun 16, 20 5:32 pm
randomised, you're an asshole. Don't let anyone ever tell you different.
square.
Jun 16, 20 8:02 pm
unhinged... i clearly touched a nerve. you all are more fragile than the sjws you hate: you want argument yet instantly cry “i’m being canceled” the minute you’re called out. even though 90% of people on here call out the insanity you spew as unhinged, you’re still about to do so. having fringe conspiracy based views that are unpopular isnt the
same as being censored.
square.
Jun 16, 20 8:19 pm
you still know nothing about race in america and it’s laughable you think you might have a relevant opinion on the topic. not to mention.. if you’re so anti-imperialism wouldn’t you be cheering on the chaz? the contradictions are dumbfounding..
randomised
Jun 17, 20 4:25 am
Thanks Sneaky for those words of encouragement.
randomised
Jun 17, 20 5:20 am
Square, unhinged, moi, get outta here! Just putting it all in perspective, there's more than one side you silly snowflake. And I actually am being censored when posts just seem to disappear when in a lively discussion with some hack moderator, or exploring angles that are maybe uncomfortable or unpleasant for some to discuss or realise.
And to be clear, I do like the Utopian ideals underlying CHAZ/CHOP, but I also know that people are usually selfish arseholes. That I post a link to some youtube video (made by a Dutch filmmaker by the way, that's why I thought it might give a fresher look on things) or some articles, doesn't always necessarily mean that my views align 100% with the material posted, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, they most likely do when it's about freedom of speech for example. Sometimes it's just good to look at things from a different perspective. Just limiting yourself to a single point of view all the time is not very healthy in my opinion, it is good to test your beliefs and points of view from time to time.
Just let me be that arsehole that forces you to think about your own opinions, I don't care. My father used to read all the major newspapers across the entire ideological spectrum, it helps you to form your own opinion and realise that there is always more than one side to a story/topic, he even ran for public office, although he did not get elected.
And I do know something about race, most of my friends growing up were non-White, most of my girlfriends too, my family lives across 4 or 5 continents, hell even my kids are multicultural, so yeah...and about race in America...I've lived and worked there myself, but even if I hadn't that's no reason not to be allowed to express my opinion on the topic. Here's something hopefully worth your while:
square.
Jun 17, 20 9:26 am
again, you're conflating censorship with credibility. you can say whatever the hell you want, but the reason no one takes you seriously on the subject is because you don't have any stake in the game, so to speak. i don't comment on race relations in europe, and i find it strange you spend so much time on a us based architecture website, lately a lot of it dedicated to threads on race in america. your energy would be better spent elsewhere nostalgically sipping from porcelain cups...
also, daddy issues?
randomised
Jun 17, 20 10:31 am
Nope, wrong again/still square...posts being removed IS censorship. I have more stake in the game than you might think, it's a universal topic, as I said we had BLM protests here as well, even a Ghandi statue was defaced today in my city.
You can find it strange all you like, I don't mind you commenting on race relations in Europe. I'm just providing you with an angle that's not very common in your binary political landscape: "you're either with us/US or against us/US". You just can't take it that I'm schooling you as a relative outsider, although I would argue as a dweller in a true multicultural city I have more stake in the game than some White American living in an all-White Midwestern 'Paradise' on these forums, for example.
Only brought up my dad as an example of being open to other opinions and perspectives, apparently that too went over your head...typical square.
square.
Jun 17, 20 10:39 am
you can continue to air your grievances and wage your imaginary, fragile war all you want, but your incoherent rants speak loudly enough for themselves.
randomised
Jun 17, 20 10:44 am
Apparently those so-called rants are the exact volume that resonate very well with you...think I hit the sweet spot!
SneakyPete
Jun 17, 20 12:00 pm
I have a dad, too. He also had opinions. Therefore I am right and unimpeachable.
Haha Hadude
Jun 17, 20 12:37 pm
"And I do know something about race, most of my friends growing up were non-White, most of my girlfriends too, my family lives across 4 or 5 continents, hell even my kids are multicultural, so yeah..." language of an unaware racist
x-jla
Jun 17, 20 12:49 pm
“again, you're conflating censorship with credibility. you can say whatever the hell you want, but the reason no one takes you seriously on the subject is because you don't have any stake in the game, so to speak. “. That assertion is the problem with the modern day leftists. The idea used to be that we are all different, but capable of thinking from multiple points of view, because we are all first and foremost humans with similar basic human desires and needs.
x-jla
Jun 17, 20 12:51 pm
The identity politics crowd flipped the script on this, making ones racial identity the primary source of their experience.
square.
Jun 17, 20 1:09 pm
jxlax- i was hoping you wouldn't use your typical "leftist" trope/catch all. i would actually argue that you DO have a stake in this argument, even if your opinions are different, and i've never questioned your credibility on that front. europeans, on the other hand, really can't understand race in america because it's not their lived experience. this is the politics of grievance though.. point out someone's lack of legitimacy on an issue and it turns into crying about being cancelled.
also, yes hahadude.. one of the many sad ideas in rando's rants, but there are too many to name.
x-jla
Jun 17, 20 3:10 pm
Square, fair enough, but I’m making a distinction between liberals pre and post identity politics. Do you not see a difference in the expectations of universal empathy between old school liberals and modern leftists? It’s not a trope so much as an overall world view.
square.
Jun 17, 20 3:36 pm
i have a hard time knowing how to respond to broad generalizations like this.. i mean do i like the video of the students yelling at the teacher? no. but am i sympathetic with the fact that the "left" has been suppressed and criminalized in this country for a very long time, in the ways the right never has been (mcarthyism..)? yes. not to mention there are many different shades of left, and while i identify with the left in many ways, i wouldn't consider myself in complete alignment with "liberals" on everything (over emphasis of the individual, for example), just as bernie sanders might have a difficult time defining what identity politics can do, so at best i can respond to individual scenarios, not broad assumptions. at the end of the day, what we're seeing is a reaction against 40+ years neoliberal politics, as well as a long dismantling of the new deal consensus, that are both long over due. it may, and probably will, "overreact" in some ways but that is history. the problem is now many on the right have never seen their majority and supremacy challenged and are uncomfortable with that, hence the grievances.
randomised
Jun 17, 20 4:00 pm
Sneaky, you exactly don't get the point I'm trying to make about my dad...It's not about having opinions but about daring to challenge your opinions and daring to expose yourself to other opinions outside of your own comfy bubble, but whatever...pearls before swine.
randomised
Jun 17, 20 4:07 pm
Hadude, some people just see racists everywhere, like Uncle Leo antisemites...it's just an excuse for the inability to engage in a discussion and the possibility of having your beliefs questioned, cognitive dissonance...
randomised
Jun 17, 20 4:22 pm
Square, It's very easy to dismiss something being said just because of where someone is from, the colour of their skin or their gender, and only accept contributions from people of the right skin colour, the right country of birth or the right gender. In that case you've become what you claim to oppose, fighting racism with more racism, sexism with more sexism etc. It's the horseshoe theory in practice.
Haha Hadude
Jun 17, 20 4:32 pm
I’m not involving myself in the conversation that clearly has no beneficial outcome for anyone. I’m just letting you know that just because you have friends and dated women that are non-white doesn’t make you an expert in non-white issues. Above, is something that can benefit anyone, and I hope you don’t use that as an excuse to pretend like you know what you’re talking about when it comes to POC any longer.
randomised
Jun 17, 20 5:01 pm
You already did involve yourself in the conversation, can't chicken out now ;-)...I know it's not my friends, girlfriends or even children that make me an expert on those issues, but I'm not unaware of them either because of how I grew up, it's just a little context. You don't need to be a Jew to discuss antisemitism either. Racism is not solely a non-white issue, it's a human issue and the declaration of human rights is universal for a reason.
SneakyPete
Jun 17, 20 5:07 pm
So shut up and listen to the self-proclaimed experts, namely x-lax, random-dude, and archised.
SneakyPete
Jun 17, 20 5:08 pm
Might have gotten their names wrong, it's tough to tell them apart by the sanctimony alone.
square.
Jun 17, 20 5:15 pm
race in AMERICA was my point rando, don't twist my words you simpleton. though maybe you're right, next time i need plumbing advice, i'll call my doctor. they deserve to be heard too!
randomised
Jun 17, 20 5:28 pm
I would never tell someone to simply shut up and listen SneakyPete, those are not my tactics...everybody deserves to be heard regardless of race, gender, political affiliation etc.
randomised
Jun 17, 20 5:30 pm
Square, what words am I twisting? And if you have plumbing issues please do call your doctor, maybe you simply need to change your diet, garbage in garbage out...
square.
Jun 17, 20 6:05 pm
rando: “all opinions matter”
randomised
Jun 17, 20 6:29 pm
square: "only opinions I agree with matter"
Defeating White supremacy without White people creates Black supremacy. Equality is the truth.
holy shit, “black supremacy”... you must truly be nostalgic for the old days of the dutch east india company. no need for my help, you’ve done a fine job canceling yourself, buddy.
randomised
Jun 18, 20 12:34 am
Too bad you focus on those two words of Terry Crews' tweet...it is about equality and that we are all in this together what should've triggered you. Can't reach or work towards equality and try putting an end to systemic racism by excluding people based on their race...too bad the irony is lost on you there.
Chad Miller
Jun 18, 20 9:51 am
I think I hit a nerve with Rando. I find it odd that the little dutch boy can dish it out but can't take it. Try harder.
SneakyPete
Jun 18, 20 12:05 pm
“I’ve learned that people will take anything you say and twist it for their own evil. Anything.” -Terry Crews
(He's talking about you, Rando!)
randomised
Jun 18, 20 4:58 pm
SneakyPete, what's evil in wanting equality and try putting an end to systemic racism you moron? Can't end those by excluding people of the conversation or debate based on their race...that's racist!
randomised
Jun 18, 20 5:07 pm
And Chad if you call me a Dutch racist or whatever, don't expect me to just sit back and take it...why my nationality has to be brought into it anyways? Chad, you are just being a racist bully, just like SneakyPete and square:
Chad Miller
Jun 18, 20 5:25 pm
I'm making fun of you because you're a racist prick. Just because somebody doesn't agree with you doesn't mean you're being bullied. Calling you a little Dutch boy isn't being racist, it's an insult yes. If I had said that because your Dutch then (insert derogatory adjective), that would be racist. Now please go spread you racist crap elsewhere you anonymous, cowardly, brat. That was an insult btw.
SneakyPete
Jun 18, 20 5:45 pm
I've excluded you by talking to you? Sounds like rando-logic to me.
randomised
Jun 18, 20 5:55 pm
Chad, show me where I'm being racist. What is racist in wanting equality and trying to put an end to systemic racism by NOT excluding people from the conversation or debate based on the colour of their skin? Just show me...and I'm not going anywhere, I don't budge for racist bullies like you.
randomised
Jun 18, 20 6:01 pm
"I've excluded you by talking to you? Sounds like rando-logic to me."
Nope don't jump to conclusions just yet and again, it's about the broader aspects of things, like mentioned in TC's tweet about ending White supremacy while excluding White people, doesn't make much sense to me when one wants unity and equality...
SneakyPete
Jun 18, 20 6:11 pm
"SneakyPete, what's evil in wanting equality and try putting an end to systemic racism you moron? Can't end those by excluding people of the conversation or debate based on their race...that's racist!"
I don't recall excluding anyone, and you accused me of doing that in the above post. But please use this shovel if you'd like to try and dig back up
.
SneakyPete
Jun 18, 20 6:12 pm
I believe I've only called one person a racist (please point out if I am wrong) and that isn't you.
randomised
Jun 18, 20 6:56 pm
I don't accuse you of excluding anyone, but what I mean is that in general one can't end racism by excluding people since that is racist...I'm arguing that position in a post to you, not you in person. There's a difference. I'm also not saying you're calling me a racist, chad is.
SneakyPete
Jun 18, 20 7:09 pm
Excluding white people from a conversation about racism is foolish, not racist. This is my OPINION, and I do not mean to imply that white people should be included for their OPINIONS. White people need to be included so they can learn and change.
x-jla
Jun 18, 20 8:36 pm
I think “white people” is a too broad of a category to mean anything. An Person of Italian decent that wasn’t in the US until 1920, and grew up in an Italian neighborhood in NJ, shares less cultural similarities with an old money southern family than with...say a Mexican American family. There are also historical oppression that Italians faced, not to the degree of blacks, but probably on par or greater than what Mexican Americans face today...Irish, Jewish, polish, Italian, etc make up a good chunk of “white peoples”. This is where the white guilt thing gets lost. Being from NY, most of the “white people” I know are either Jewish, Irish, or Italian. They don’t feel that white guilt like self identifying “white people” and they never say that they are “white” if you ask. They will say Jewish, Irish, etc.
randomised
Jun 19, 20 4:19 am
SneakyPete, it is still racist if people are excluded from the conversation because of the colour of their skin, if they have to stand in the back of the protest because of the colour of their skin (or sit in the back of the bus, remember Rosa?)...and that is not just my opinion that is just a fact according to what racism factually is.
square.
Jun 19, 20 8:55 am
rando loves using black people as props for his racist arguments.. first george floyd and the neck metaphor (disgusting), then terry crews (appropriation), and now rosa parks (misguided). this hole keeps getting deeper and deeper.. even jxlax can’t save you.
square.
Jun 19, 20 9:36 am
You have committed and are committing cultural genocide..you came in and fucked it all up with your sneakers, disgusting McDonalds "food", coffee in paper cups with straws, your Hollywood blockbusters, pop music and your fear mongering against our superior social democracy.
per your own definition, you are being a racist in your ranting about americans. all logic is out the window at this point
randomised
Jun 20, 20 3:27 am
How is the describing of the cultural genocide that America commits all over the world racist? It is the erasure of other cultures that could be considered racist. You clearly are way out of your depth on this one...just attaching a dumpster fire image to your post is like a self-fulfilling prophecy, if there's any dumpster on fire here it is the one in your own backyard, filled with your own garbage, take a look around you or open a newspaper, really hope it won't spread though and can be contained.
x-jla
Jun 20, 20 9:20 pm
The US has been operating like a global empire, so the whole globe has a say in our affairs.
randomised
Jun 21, 20 5:17 pm
"rando loves using black people as props for his racist arguments.. first george floyd and the neck metaphor (disgusting), then terry crews (appropriation), and now rosa parks (misguided). this hole keeps getting deeper and deeper.. even jxlax can’t save you."
No square, I don't use Black people as props, I pity the fool who'd think that!
The neck metaphor was a rather sick joke (too soon too much truth) to hold up a mirror to some of the people on here and how they hypocritically and cowardly go after one single (and Black, oh the irony) person all at once. When they would probably cross to the other side, clutch their sphincter and avoid eye-contact when meeting in real life.
Am I not allowed to copy-paste a tweet by a famous Black guy that preaches unity? In that case you are the racist, being against said unity and all, disgusting! White people appropriating parts and elements of other cultures, preferably Black obviously 'cause they cool, IS White culture, so now what? Are you forbidding White culture? That's racist!
And the Rosa Parks remark is just an effective and simple comparison to show how ridiculous some people now are acting, by proposing segregationist measures during anti-racism protests! Totally bonkers and may I add racist!
Can't wait to read your next flacid attempts at a comeback...
SneakyPete
Jun 22, 20 5:11 pm
Pumped up masculinity hiding behind the incidental conditions of one's birth to discredit others. You do project, do you not?
randomised
Jun 22, 20 5:21 pm
Now you're just grasping at straws...
SneakyPete
Jun 22, 20 5:30 pm
Oh come, now. Don't you have some incidental factoid to render my argument moot? Some statement to DESTROY my supposition? Care to again take aim at my assumed lack of erectile legitimacy? My assumed lack of melanin which makes my opinions invalid?
x-jla
Jun 22, 20 5:37 pm
Positive Masculinity is the solution to most of the nations problems. Uncontrolled masculinity is the root of many problems we face.
SneakyPete
Jun 22, 20 5:39 pm
At face value, you just said something I agree with.
randomised
Jun 22, 20 5:39 pm
Sorry, that's not how I roll. I prefer to simply use facts to support my opinions, I can highly recommend it!
SneakyPete
Jun 22, 20 5:41 pm
Facts are tricky things, especially if you refuse to dig into the history behind them. A factual taking of a life may or may not be murder. You tend to avoid digging deep enough for your "facts" to prove anything for anyone outside of what you and what you already believe.
randomised
Jun 22, 20 6:10 pm
Apparently I'm digging all the time, or so I'm told. And I'm totally open to having my beliefs shaken, even welcome it, as I'm not an extremist on any end of the political horseshoe...
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 24, 20 7:02 pm
No square, I don't use Black people as props, I pity the fool who'd think that!
Literally using a black person, and their quote, as a prop. Dutch are literally so good at racism, they show they have little awareness when they practice it.
randomised
Jun 25, 20 9:22 am
"Literally using a black person, and their quote, as a prop."
Wow, did that morning coffee still not sink in or is that the vodka talking...my God, your mother must have been so proud, she probably looks at her coat hangers and sees missed opportunities. That was clearly a joke b2dine[racist] and not a prop but a tribute, have to say I pity you now as it went clearly over your head...
"Dutch are literally so good at racism, they show they have little awareness when they practice it."
That is a racist assumption dear b3tadine[racist]. Even if I were a racist, which I'm not, it is racist to project such personal traits onto an entire population of people from all sorts of backgrounds, religions, country of origin, skin colours, etc. etc. I sure pity you now, you racist fool.
SneakyPete
Jun 25, 20 12:01 pm
i know you are but what am i?
randomised
Jun 25, 20 2:52 pm
irrelevant(!)
SneakyPete
Jun 25, 20 2:57 pm
i know you are but what am i?
archi_dude
Jun 16, 20 8:34 am
It is pretty amusing that a group of people who all support getting rid of borders and police immediately create patrolled borders and armed police.
randomised
Jun 16, 20 9:16 am
Those borders are there to keep people inside, you'll see...just like the Iron Curtain was really erected to prevent the occupied people in Eastern Europe from escaping Communism.
x-jla
Jun 16, 20 11:56 am
Well, when people realize that they have to put down the hackysack and work...and then they realize that no one gets paid in communism...they will flee in mass. It would be funny if we repatriated them and made them take an oath to be a citizen again
curtkram
Jun 16, 20 8:54 pm
those borders are to prevent police brutality and white nationalists running people over
Everyday Architect
Jun 16, 20 1:45 pm
It's nice that you have made your own little autonomous zone of archinect where you can discuss these things with like-minded people without injecting them in every other thread. Though, much like Seattle's Police Department, I'm going to check out and let it run its course. You've all strayed too much from reality for me. See you on the other side.
x-jla
Jun 16, 20 2:36 pm
Haha. No. Debate is welcome and encouraged. It’s been mostly ad hominem fallacies though. That’s boring. I can’t help the fact that the counterpoints made were mostly weak.
archi_dude
Jun 16, 20 3:01 pm
Supporting a police department abandoning a section of a major US city while a mob self patrols it and people who think that's a bad idea are the ones who have stayed too far from reality. Dang, grasp those straws to keep your ideology safe I guess.
square.
Jun 16, 20 3:04 pm
Supporting a police department abandoning a section of a major US city while a mob self patrols it and people who think that's a bad idea are the ones who have stayed too far from reality.
who said this on the thread? is anyone explicitly defending it? you fools are arguing with a wall at this point
x-jla
Jun 17, 20 5:19 pm
We aren’t arguing against it either, just pointing out the hypocrisy. I’m not necessarily opposed to the idea of autonomous zones, so long as their acceptable across the spectrum, even in their most grotesque manifestation. We can’t approve certain tactics for certain causes and then disapprove the same tactics for different causes. That’s dangerous territory, and can end badly if a truly dangerous group with a more dangerous objective follows suit and is allowed to by a political leader that’s sympathetic to that dangerous objective or the political alignment that it follows.
x-jla
Jun 17, 20 5:22 pm
Overall, what I’m saying is that this is opening up Pandora’s box. They may be a bunch of harmless hippies, but don’t you see the danger in the example that this sets?
SneakyPete
Jun 24, 20 12:00 pm
a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 1:50 pm
That doesn’t make any sense. Consistency is the basis of equality and justice, because it removes subjectivity. Subjectivity is power, and power corrupts always.
SneakyPete
Jun 24, 20 6:59 pm
adjectives really aren't your thing, are they?
x-jla
Jun 18, 20 6:29 pm
I’m just hoping that we use logic once in a while. I know your hearts are big, and that’s good, but it’s usually not productive. The key imo is to have logic and heart.
As for the Atlanta shooting, I think I was wrong. I did my best to imagine myself in the cops position, and I can’t imagine ever firing my gun at a fleeing drunk guy. I think it was definitely more than an accident or bad training.
As opposed as to how well it ends when the cops are involved?
Ancient Sheds
Jun 20, 20 8:16 pm
sneaky, you're such a White Bitch, it's unfathomable how deep your hate for society is. Yes, if you're being arrested you could plead the fifth and sort it out later or you know steal a tazer, run away, shoot at cop and then get shot at....the part of that story that is not fair is why the cops allowed it in the first place...I once congratulated a cop on arresting me for being white...so you get me point.
x-jla
Jun 20, 20 9:18 pm
SneakyPete, I don’t understand what you are saying. Do you think it’s ok that the shooter gets away? That the people hurt don’t get medical aid because protesters wouldn’t let them in? I don’t understand.
x-jla
Jun 20, 20 9:22 pm
“Seattle police in a post Saturday on its blotter said officers attempted to respond to a report of shots fired inside the protest zone, but the officers “were met by a violent crowd that prevented officers safe access to the victims.” - per above article
x-jla
Jun 20, 20 9:23 pm
White guilt is retarded btw.
curtkram
Jun 22, 20 12:39 am
i assume it was one of the far right white supremacist groups? if this going to continue
the BLM group and fire department and ambulances will have to learn to work better together. it's the police they don't want in, because the police are gassing them and killing them. they asked the fire department for help.
curtkram
Jun 22, 20 12:44 am
ancient, i watched the movie "just mercy" this weekend. i recommend it. i was accused of dui once. my lawyer got the prosecutor to throw the charges out. no trial or anything. the guy in atlanta would not have had the same experience as me. none of it would have been the same, not the 40 minute inquisition, not the taser, seriously, none of it. the guy in atlanta does not have the same fifth amendment protections you and i have.
archi_dude
Jun 22, 20 8:37 am
So sneaky you think random armed vigilantes have better outcomes than a trained police force? Lol.
archi_dude
Jun 22, 20 8:45 am
Curtkram too. Let me rephrase, a trained police force with body cams, Badge numbers, movement tracking and accountability vs a anonymous gun toting vigilante only accountable to a mobs mood. I mean its hilarious. A group wanting to defund police immediately recognize the need for police and institute their own hashed policing force. And that ends better?
SneakyPete
Jun 22, 20 12:00 pm
a badly trained police force who routinely ignore their training and also go to training to learn how to be "warriors" with body cams they routinely turn off or "forget" to turn on, Badge numbers which they refuse to display at times, movement tracking which is unavailable to anyone who matters, and accountability which is resisted at every turn by police unions...
archi_dude
Jun 22, 20 12:46 pm
Even if that was all true, a phantom gun wielding random is better?
Chad Miller
Jun 22, 20 1:01 pm
You do realize that the term 'defund the police' is just a catchy way to say: Restructuring the roll police play so they serve to only handle crime. Removing the militarization of the entire police force. Then reallocating or redirecting funding away from the police department to other agencies to handle SWAT type situations, and the social service and mental health calls the police currently are having to respond to with no or limited training.
SneakyPete
Jun 22, 20 2:30 pm
even if all of those instances drawn from reality (things that happened) are true (they are), isn't this imaginary thing I am creating to scare you worse?
Chad Miller
Jun 22, 20 3:45 pm
Who where you responding to Sneaky?
SneakyPete
Jun 22, 20 5:08 pm
archi_dude
"Even if that was all true, a phantom gun wielding random is better?"
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 22, 20 5:25 pm
Even wilder? What the great Angela Davis is speaking on, like defunding the popo, her ideas are hard to swallow when first stated, but logical in the thinking.
x-jla
Jun 22, 20 5:27 pm
Chad, SP, All, I highly encourage you to watch the podcast below in it’s entirety. It’s 3 hours long, and worth every second. The best conversation I’ve heard about the recent issues in the country.
x-jla
Jun 22, 20 5:30 pm
Curt, why do you assume that? It’s possible, but why do you assume that? The idea that only the Right is capable of violence is completely removed from reality. That’s not to say that they don’t, and can’t, but to assume that all violence is tied to right wing extremists when that is in fact a small small amount of violent acts attributable to that...
x-jla
Jun 22, 20 5:31 pm
Most violence is attributed to crime, not ideology.
x-jla
Jun 22, 20 5:31 pm
Ideological violence is scarier, I agree, but not nearly as common.
randomised
Jun 22, 20 5:32 pm
Any takeaways, don't have 3hrs...
SneakyPete
Jun 22, 20 5:33 pm
please define crime without using the United States Criminal Code or any specific State Criminal Code so we can better understand what you think it is. Perhaps we merely misunderstand what you mean because you're trapped within the language you seek to explain.
x-jla
Jun 22, 20 7:15 pm
Rando, about the political stuff....we are seeing a total rejection or the enlightenment which is the basis of western civilization. That’s the main point id say. The second half is all science
SP. you don’t believe in crime? I’m not sure what you are saying
x-jla
Jun 22, 20 7:40 pm
Crime is violating another’s life, body, or property. It’s quite simple.
x-jla
Jun 22, 20 7:42 pm
you guys all went south of libertarian within the course of a month! Yay!
SneakyPete
Jun 22, 20 7:42 pm
please define violating as you used it
SneakyPete
Jun 22, 20 7:42 pm
two shootings in a city over a week. sounds like a city.
x-jla
Jun 22, 20 7:48 pm
In CHOP. Not a city, a small usually low crime pocket of a city.
archi_dude
Jun 22, 20 8:24 pm
X-Jla, it's not even worth it. You are arguing with people who are supporting a cause to make police more accountable even if that ironicallg means getting rid of them entirely and having completely unaccountable ransoms carrying a gun in a few city blocks. Not even worth it to engage. They far surpassed you on the libertarian scale, also ironic since they always make fun of you for it.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 22, 20 8:54 pm
You know what's balls to the walls nuts? It's this idea that CHOP was going to solve crime in three weeks, and cops haven't done it in 2000 plus years. That's what's fucked in your idiocracy.
x-jla
Jun 22, 20 10:00 pm
archi-dude, I agree.
x-jla
Jun 23, 20 4:16 am
You know what’s ball to the wall nuts? That 104 people were shot, 14 killed, in 1 US city, on Father’s Day weekend, but no one cares because the perpetrators race can’t be used to help reinforce a certain political narrative. That’s nuts.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 23, 20 6:58 am
i thought this was about CHOP?
x-jla
Jun 23, 20 11:35 am
It is. And the the premise of chop, that cops are the greatest and only threat to the community, is false.
x-jla
Jun 23, 20 11:43 am
Just seems like many people out there are projecting. A crisis of self criticism and self actualization.
Chad Miller
Jun 23, 20 11:44 am
archi_dude - no one is calling for getting rid of the police. Read my comment about what 'defund police' actually means.
x-jla
Jun 23, 20 11:50 am
Chad, that’s such irony. The left has been historically about increasing funding to better something. Bernie called for paying police better and having better training and vetting process. The libertarian perspective was always to defund and ‘starve the beast’ of government. This flip is all so ironic and interesting. There is also this flip in calling for gun ownership and self protection of community. That’s very libertarian too. It’s sort of like that kid that just discovered metal and went overboard with the black eye liner. Ok though, it’s a start.
x-jla
Jun 23, 20 11:53 am
I think defund government all together. At the same time, make income taxes inversely proportionate to the average income of the zip. Watch equality of services and opportunity become evenly diffuse.
x-jla
Jun 23, 20 11:54 am
Incentive to move Companies to lower income areas.
SneakyPete
Jun 23, 20 7:50 pm
If libertarians didn't stop the sentence after "Defund the government..." they may have something worth hearing.
archi_dude
Jun 23, 20 8:55 pm
Chad, I know what defunding the police is about. Yes it totally makes sense to take the money used to fund what looked like a tank that pulled up next to me with "Sheriff" on it and send to having more mental health services so you dont send that tank squad to a call about a homeless person ranting. This conversation was about CHOP. Where literally cops cant come investigate a shooting because a mob has things under control. Take your own advice and read the comments.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 23, 20 9:26 pm
Over 400k rape kits languish in storage rooms all over the US, you want kkkops to do something; solve those crimes. If not, then kkkops can go eat a djick.
Ancient Sheds
Jun 23, 20 9:44 pm
"djick"? is that dutch?
randomised
Jun 24, 20 4:00 am
no it's just sexist, talking about rape kits in the same response as telling police officers (male/female) to eat a dick...that's like rallying against racism and telling the white folks that support your cause to go stand in the back.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 12:54 pm
Are black cops in the kkkops?
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 24, 20 3:36 pm
kkkops supporting systems of white hegemony/supremacy are problematic. I think many want the system to be different. But, when black Americans make up 13% of the population, and the numbers of black cops struggle to hit that mark, and fewer are high ranking, it's hard for me to believe that they would feel supported taking stands against kkkops. Their own safety is at risk.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 24, 20 3:39 pm
As for randomly opinionated, he's about as dumb as they get. Racism is a white people problem, it's not a black people problem, white people need to solve their problems. Of course this dummy doesn't get that and your know he doesn't because he uses terms like "reverse racism" as if that is a real thing to be solved. Crawl back into your hole, muppet.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 3:55 pm
That’s absolutely ridiculous and false. Racism exists in every single culture and race. Ask a Pygmy
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 3:55 pm
And yes, in the US there are racist black people.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 4:00 pm
Your basing this on a false idea that only 1 grand power dynamic exists. There are many microcosms within that that you fail to acknowledge. I’ve seen black kids beating the fucking shit out of Asian minorities back in the day. For no reason other than that they are Asian. This was a daily thing.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 4:02 pm
Same with hate crimes against Jews. In NY like almost all the perpetrators are black. This is just a fake narrative b3, and it doesn’t help to solve the problems of racism by exempting everyone from their ignorance.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 4:06 pm
Racism is a majority vs minority problem. This can be true of a Jew in a majority black neighborhood, or a black in a primarily Jewish neighborhood. The overall US is mostly white, but people don’t experience the overall US, they experience life from their own microcosm within that larger structure.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 4:08 pm
As for the cop comment. That’s not true. Many black neighborhoods have majority black politicians, police chief’s, and cops.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 4:11 pm
The idea that racism is so prevalent is also false. Racism is not currently a huge problem. The effects of past racism are.
randomised
Jun 24, 20 4:16 pm
"As for randomly opinionated, he's about as dumb as they get. Racism is a white people problem, it's not a black people problem, white people need to solve their problems. Of course this dummy doesn't get that and your know he doesn't because he uses terms like "reverse racism" as if that is a real thing to be solved. Crawl back into your hole, muppet."
As dumb as they get and yet still smarter than you b3ta...racism is a people problem, if you think otherwise that only proves that you're the racist. Remember the LA riots in the 90s you genius, and what happened in Koreatown? With your "racism is a white people problem"...that's just fucking racist!
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 5:08 pm
Last comment, didn’t mean that racism no longer exists, just that it’s not on the books like it was. It’s not explicitly codified. We are dealing more with latent effects of the past. That’s actually a harder problem to solve I’d argue.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 24, 20 6:02 pm
What's wild is that you, and the clujsterfjuck from Holland, read what I wrote and ascribed that only white people can be racist. I know reading isn't the first thing they teach dutch children - secret: it's how to squeeze your feet into those wooden shoes - but what I wrote was, "Racism is a white people problem, it's not a black people problem, white people need to solve their problems." And that there is me, quoting moi. As for codified? I don't care about codified, I care about reality;
And you two numbnuts pointing out instances of violence perpetrated by black people, and citing that as a problem, is so deeply racist that you two might want to get a room and jerk each other off.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 24, 20 6:07 pm
Or, watch each other get off via zoom, you know; COVID-19 and shit.
randomised
Jun 24, 20 6:36 pm
Did I say that you wrote that only white people can be racist? You are white and clearly a racist but that doesn't mean racism is slegs vir blankes. Exposing you b3ta for the racist that you are so passionately has turned into one of my favourite hobbies tbh, just love seeing you go all off-script and losing your shit when confronted with that inconvenient truth. Now I would tell you to go fuck yourself but I'm afraid that's already way over your head. XOXO
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 24, 20 6:41 pm
Listen muppet get back to clogging and racism. You're out of your league. Only you think I'm racist.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 6:42 pm
How is pointing out instances of racism racist? I’m super confused. What you really mean is that criticism of black people is racist because we should hold white people to a higher standard...that’s some racist shit bro.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 6:44 pm
If everyone is capable of racism then why is racism a white peoples problem only? Seems like a Human problem.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 24, 20 6:54 pm
Rabidly Opinionated, look sister, i stopped being wound up by you after your racist comment about me practicing "reverse racism" that idiotic trope outed you as the dumbest peanut in the bowl. I may have issues, but you "trying" to troll me, ain't one of them. Reverse racism ain't a thing, and your klantastic suggestion that I'm virtue signaling just demonstrates how far your head is up your ass. I've been talking this for years. Years. I even put my money where my mouth is, and talk this same thing on the podcast. So, muppet, back to the windmills. Isn't it like 12:00 am where you are? Who is owning whom, maga Dutch.
archi_dude
Jun 24, 20 11:13 pm
Honestly almost everything beta says is racist, sexist or some other form of hate speech. It's just pointed at a majority so its apparently okay? Insane to me that they are a moderator. Theres usually a pretty moderately phrased opinion that runs counter to Beta's views and then they spew pure hate and stereotypes to try and shut that person down with character assination.
randomised
Jun 25, 20 3:11 am
Oh poor racist b3ta, you try so hard to be accepted by Black people, you appropriate their cool lingo, you slave for them for free, you adopt their causes and bend the knee and attack anyone that tries to hold a mirror to your face to show how ridiculous you're acting. All the blackface in the world could not cover your pale sorry ass, you think you're as relevant as Ice-T but you're just Vanilla Ice...
randomised
Jun 25, 20 3:44 am
Listen Piper b3ta, you are still so wound up by me seeing through your racism, your hatespeech is so transparent I'm surprised not more people dare to confront you on here, you're a bully a racist and a moderator(!), how's that even work?. You're so wound up I can see that vein pulsating next to your left eye from all the way over here. You've been talking like what for years, like a racist virtue signalling? Poor you. You put your money where your mouth is, what a waste 'cause all the money in the world can't change the racist imprint of your screwed up brain...all that cognitive dissonance that makes you lash out to anyone calling you out with simple proof. You're like a Pinocchio, always wanted to be a real homie, but you never will, you're just a sock puppet Piper Perri and always will be.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 25, 20 5:50 am
okay troglodyte. get back to your daily chore of fucking yourself. muppet.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 25, 20 5:51 am
archi_dude sez ffgfgegrnvrioernregirgnr....dur.
randomised
Jun 25, 20 6:08 am
No b3ta I won’t get off your lawn...
square.
Jun 25, 20 9:08 am
you appropriate their cool lingo, you slave for them for free, you adopt their causes and bend the knee
rando, you've hit new low. i find it fun to banter with xlax, but your use of racist language and tropes isn't smart or funny, it's disgusting, and further evidence that you are in way over your head.
This is a great conversation with Bret Weinstein on JRE.
Makes me think that the solution to lack of opportunity in poor communities can be solved by having tax zones that are parametric to income of the area. For example, a district in East St. Louis May have a zero income tax zone to attract businesses, whereas BelAir would have a higher income tax....this may help average out opportunity across geographic areas. Tax would increase or decrease proportionally to income (generated in said area). The architecture would follow. Thoughts?
x-jla
Jun 22, 20 5:33 pm
Just to clarify before you turn it off 5 mins in....Bret is an evolutionary biologist, and a self described Left wing progressive. Watch!
SneakyPete
Jun 22, 20 5:34 pm
Joe Fucking Rogan. How the fuck did we come to this?
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 22, 20 5:47 pm
I mean the only time I want to hear from Rogan, is when he's talking about jiu-jitsu. That's it. Fucking douchecanoe.
randomised
Jun 22, 20 5:59 pm
Attack the messenger to have an excuse not to listen to what they have to say! It's only 3 hours...what a cop out!
SneakyPete
Jun 22, 20 6:00 pm
ok, sparky.
randomised
Jun 22, 20 6:23 pm
Sure SneakyPilgarlic, but I still want to listen to it though, just don't have the time as it's 00:15 over here. I definitely want to know about the key takeaways and don't attack the messenger at all, so no cop out from my end, what's your excuse...
SneakyPete
Jun 22, 20 6:31 pm
*rereads thread full of messengers rando constantly attacks*
curtkram
Jun 22, 20 6:57 pm
i get that this guys is saying this whole protesting and #chop is difficult and it's unlikely we will be able to fix it because there is no leadership in washington? didn't get through the whole three hours yet.
curtkram
Jun 22, 20 6:58 pm
also, joe rogan thinks cops should not have killed rayshard brooks in atlanta.
x-jla
Jun 22, 20 7:05 pm
The last half is all about covid and evolutionary Biology and it’s terrifying.
x-jla
Jun 22, 20 7:08 pm
Rogan is very left, just not looney left. Not sure what you are talking about SP. He has had everyone from Bernie Sanders to To obscure scientists on his show...
x-jla
Jun 22, 20 7:10 pm
rando, listen mate. It’s worth the 3 hours. The last hour is about lab mice lol. It’s the most interesting and frightening part imo.
Ancient Sheds
Jun 22, 20 7:32 pm
based on the 4 thumbs down (shame that's all I got) there are literally only half dozen architects (well, one landscaper) on this thread. all males. all white...and don't put Rogan into your youtube algorithm, before you know it you'll be in conspiracy central. he also is slightly annoying after 20 minutes...only episode I made it through was with Roger Penrose (Rogan basically said nothing the whole time)
randomised
Jun 23, 20 4:11 am
"*rereads thread full of messengers rando constantly attacks*"
I simply return the favour, those that can't stand the heat should stay out of the kitchen. You called me an asshole out of the blue SneakAttack, when I was in the middle of a civilised discussion with square, so yeah, maybe take a good look in the mirror first...
SneakyPete
Jun 23, 20 12:01 pm
I didn't claim to not attack the messenger (although I rarely do), that was you. You did.
"I definitely ... don't attack the messenger at all, so no cop out from my end, what's your excuse...
The lady doth protest too much methinks.
randomised
Jun 23, 20 3:40 pm
I was talking about that video of Rogan you genius...with your Sneaky cuttin' 'n pastin'...people flying off the handle simply because it's Joe Rogan, but whatever...
SneakyPete
Jun 23, 20 5:51 pm
Nothing inside the ellipses changes the statement you made claiming to not attack the messenger. Simply because you only INTENDED it to mean Joe Rogan doesn't make it fully ironic coming from you, a person who routinely attacks the messenger, insults them, declares victory prematurely, then gets frustrated when others take exception to your generalizations.
randomised
Jun 23, 20 6:14 pm
I don't attack the messenger, I simply expose hypocrites for all to see that claim to be against racism but are actually supporting or engaging in racist anti-racism tactics. I only "insult" in retaliation, as a comeback from hecklers, and can't help it that I'm just very good at it. I'm not frustrated at all, lighten up!
SneakyPete
Jun 23, 20 7:49 pm
Narrator: He really wasn't very good at it.
randomised
Jun 24, 20 3:54 am
Ah, the voices in your head acting up again? Don't worry, I'm not after your lucky charms...
SneakyPete
Jun 24, 20 11:59 am
Narrator: He was actually rather terrible at it.
randomised
Jun 24, 20 4:04 pm
.
x-jla
Jun 23, 20 4:11 am
Columbus Ohio is now Flavortown because Christopher Columbus is bad and Guy Fieri is good even though he has a soul patch? I’m confused. I thought soul patches were a sign of evil. Please come now aliens. We need you more than ever. You can probe me. I won’t even resist.
Ha ha. This chop bs is just the beginning. Statues coming down and all...and my statement that I’ve repeatedly made, that the left doesn’t know how far is too far...now they want to remove a statue of Teddy Roosevelt? Lol. These clowns. So is Robin Williams role in Night at the Museum canceled now?
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 1:44 pm
The Authoritarian left, posing as a grassroots ‘anarchist’ movement, is trying, and will fail miserably, to spark a Marxist style ‘cultural revolution’. It’s only real effect will be to ensure Trump the win.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 1:45 pm
And maybe get some Hollywood actors to make another stupid video about how good they are.
square.
Jun 24, 20 1:45 pm
have you seen the teddy statue? it's pretty.. bad. white man being triumphantly led by a subjugated native american and african person. they also had a great display on the question to remove the statue (it's been on display over a year), which was curated by the museum and featured well thought out opinions from each side, unlike yours. this decision was carefully and deliberately made by the museum, not some imaginary mob. again, cherry picking pieces of the news that best support your opinion, when the reality is, at least for the museum, much more complicated.
History is bad. Let’s remove Rome, Tikal, Giza, the Alhambra. Why not? Why stop at 1492? Let’s go way back. Let’s replace them with McDonald’s and Starbucks billboards
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 1:59 pm
Stop isolating it like “it was going to be removed anyway”. This is a nationwide trend and you know it.
square.
Jun 24, 20 2:00 pm
"use bombastic troll-like over simplification when your point has been proven wrong"
square.
Jun 24, 20 2:02 pm
the statue was commissioned well after the museum was built, in a different century no less. it's not "history"
different statue, different scenario, different circumstances. i'm not defending people ripping down a statue in madison, but you attempted to equate this situation with the one at the natural history museum in nyc. again, over simplification.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 2:04 pm
these assholes are definitely bottom of the class history students.
square.
Jun 24, 20 2:08 pm
thumbs down for the museum facilitating a debate about the nature of the statue? i thought it was well done and informing, reading opinions from opposing sides. clearly something you're not interested in; so much for "free thought."
you would benefit from spending some time with this:
Thumbs down because you are pretending that this isn’t connected to the larger trend of removing statues. I understand removing confederate statues. But like I’ve said before. The left require a perfect alignment with its orthodoxy. Nothing in history perfectly aligned with this, Therefore everything in history is a potential target of its cleansing. The ww2 memorial was even vandalized...you know that time when brave 18yo kids actually fought and defeated real nazis.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 2:26 pm
The sheer fact that all statues are being targeted without any context or understanding of who these statues are is just proof of my point that the goal is power for the sake of power. Museums, industry, etc are just caving to mob pressure to self cleanse or be canceled. Suck my ass is what I would say, but these people are concerned with their pockets staying full so they comprise their nuanced understanding of the historical context, the artists intent, for a shallow reading by 19yo college dropouts and fry cooks.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 2:28 pm
I read it square. Just further reinforced my point.
square.
Jun 24, 20 2:36 pm
but.. but.. that exhibition was all about context? the statue wasn't even an original part of the building, but added later? are things never allowed to be modified or changed based on new circumstances or understanding of history, something that is inherently always evolving? maybe realizing a statue that was added later, post rationalized if you will, wasn't in the interest of the museum?
so confused. i tried.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 2:36 pm
“The Native American is a composite of many tribes. The figure is an allegory standing for a continent, similar to the way many public statues of nude women represent virtues or vices.” Exactly. And understanding a statue is about the artist’s intention as much as it is about the actual historical context of the times. Art is not meant to be read by angry mobs, it’s meant to be contemplated by thoughtful individuals.
Chad Miller
Jun 24, 20 2:43 pm
You realize x-jla that all those statues of confederate soldiers and such where put up by a group called 'The Daughters of the Confederacy' who had a stated goal "to remind the negro of his place within the white man's world" and "to maintain positive image of the confederate so we may rise again" - The statues where put up by racists to promote racist ideologies. Through their political influence The Daughters of the Confederacy even got into our public education system and had major textbook publishers rewrite material to put a positive spin on slavery and promote that the Civil War was about individual freedoms and not the slave trade that was the backbone of the confederacies economy.
square.
Jun 24, 20 2:47 pm
no, it's history chad. once you put a statue up you can't ever change it because it was a thing that was made at one point so it's history.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 2:48 pm
This is pc cancel culture influencing cultural institutions, art, speech, and public spaces. This is an abandonment of intellectual debate because of political pressure and fear of monetary repercussions. This is the antithesis of how an authority on history, art, science, etc should operate. It’s tantamount libraries dumping books because of the pressure from pearl clutching book burners. This is exactly the same.
square.
Jun 24, 20 2:51 pm
even though the daughters of confederacy decided to cancel the emancipation proclamation and the results of the civil war, aka history, by building their suppressive statues. exactly the same.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 2:54 pm
Chad, I do. I also said that is a different scenario if you read my comments above. The problem is, that the leftist doctrine that is the force behind this all doesn’t draw the line there, or anywhere really. It’s goal is not to remove statues. It’s goal is to get its tentacles into everything so that it can destroy dissent with its limited power. This is exactly how ‘cultural revolutions’ start. We are in the useful idiot phase.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 2:58 pm
Don’t be fooled. This is being instigated by foreign actors, Russian and CCP, that seek to weaken the foundation of the country. We have proof of this from last time around. We are being duped. It’s important, as students of art and architecture and history, to be on the frontline of this debate.
square.
Jun 24, 20 2:59 pm
we are, you have some catching up to do:
'As students of architectural history, we have been taught to look as objectively as possible at historic events, and to place them in context. When contextualized properly, symbols of oppression and societal evil can be understood in terms of what these objects meant to their creators as separate from what they might mean to us. Removing monuments that have stood for decades is decried by some as “erasing history,” but we cannot change the events of the past. What changes is our understanding and our interpretation of these past events.'
I don’t blame the curators. They made very good points in the reading. The problem is that the political pressure surrounding these public institutions is always going to crush any intelligence. THIS is why PRIVATE PROPERTY is necessary to ensure free speech!
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 3:11 pm
Ok square, so can we remove the Giza pyramids, or did the Egyptians have sufficient melanin levels? It’s a serious question. The northern Africans are literally still engaged in slavery. Why are we tolerating these monuments to empire built on the back of slaves? Is it time? Is is race? What’s the cut off point of not caring?
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 3:12 pm
Context
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 24, 20 3:15 pm
Can we worry about Amerikkka First? Before we continue our reprehensible charade of policing the world? Or does that go against Ayn Rand?
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 3:20 pm
That’s very nationalist of you.
square.
Jun 24, 20 3:22 pm
agreed beta, but just to educate xlax.. most historians think the "pyramids were built by slaves" idea is a myth. at best it's murky. what we do know, however, is this country had an embarrassing, oppressive, and destructive system of slavery that is well documented, and it does not need to be memorialized.
I don’t really think morality has borders. We are talking about monuments, and the biggest, that was built by slavery to the ego of a tyrant, is sitting in the middle of a huge modern day slave market.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 24, 20 3:28 pm
Your idea of "nationalist" is dog shit wrapped with djick cheese. Socialists are not concerned with theocratic governments in other countries, let the people in those countries figure it out for themselves. We have enough problems here, in Amerikkka. You might want to check on Ayn Randy's grave, because I think she just died a little.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 3:35 pm
I don’t care about Ayn Rand. She was a greedy fuck. I’m more of an open border globalist libertarian who dreams of gay gun toting tiger wrestlers ending authoritarianism in all forms in all places.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 3:36 pm
Including the US.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 3:38 pm
We can’t focus so narrowly on certain types of crimes by certain types or perpetrators or we lose the goal or making life better and freer for more people
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 3:42 pm
It’s like only caring about the rona and sitting home all day eating Doritos and smoking crack. We need a holistic revolution.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 3:53 pm
Square, yeah they were more like serfs probably. Stop dodging the point.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 24, 20 4:39 pm
So, you're an interventionista?
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 4:59 pm
The gay tiger wrestler is a metaphor. Militarily no. Spreading liberal ideals yes. Calling out foreign tyranny yes. Not supporting foreign tyranny economically, yes.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 5:03 pm
Removing Monuments, not exactly. I prefer history to be on full display so that we understand it and don’t repeat it. Adding context to that history would be a better thing. Maybe a giant fountain statue of ODB pissing on the confederate soldier with a Wu-tang shaped catch basin?
square.
Jun 24, 20 5:40 pm
good to know you'll be first in line for any forthcoming hitler monuments
tduds
Jun 24, 20 5:53 pm
Hitler died 75 years ago, which is more or less the same amount of time that passed between the Civil War and the construction of Confederate statues. Let's do it!
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 6:10 pm
There is a big difference between the creation of a statue and the removal of a statue. If it was created, the context that accepted it is just as much a part of the story. It’s funny how architects of all people can’t understand this. Next time you’re in Rome, think about it.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 6:10 pm
Accepted in the physical sense
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 6:14 pm
You think this is only about confederate statues, because you’re either tuned out, or lying, it’s about more than that, and the proof is in the fact that other sites and statues are the target of attack, including an abolitionist poet, Lincoln, Columbus (500 years ago) about as logical as ripping down a statue of Nero if we want to play time table
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 6:16 pm
Why isn’t anyone going after the Lenin statue in Seattle? His evil philosophy killed 100s of million people!
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 6:38 pm
I want it torn down ASAP.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 24, 20 6:38 pm
Stalin did the killing
Everyday Architect
Jun 24, 20 6:43 pm
nice whataboutism ... really going back to the soviet propaganda roots. But really? Try harder ...
The confederate statues are not my issue. I’ve said this numerous times. My issue is a cowardice on the left the draw the line at that. The left doesn’t know when it goes too far, or at least isn’t willing to define “too far”. This is a point I’ve made several times before this debacle.
square.
Jun 24, 20 6:59 pm
"The left-wing mob is trying to demolish our heritage so they can replace it with a new, oppressive regime that they alone control...They're tearing down statues, desecrating monuments and purging dissenters. It's not the behavior of a peaceful political movement, it's the behavior of totalitarians"
new game: who said it, xjlax or trump?
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 7:00 pm
Because strategically they don’t want to, and it’s not about the confederate statues. It’s about power. It’s about removing one authority to replace it with their version of authority. Last point I’ll
make.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 7:04 pm
square, I said this way way way back. Wayyyy before trump. Truth is, it’s now a reality and even he has caught on. Not that he’s any better. Go to the libertarian thread where I accurately
called out this on college campuses spilling onto the streets.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 24, 20 7:05 pm
square, that's a tough one, can i get a hint?
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 7:07 pm
I predicted this years ago. The rise of cultural Marxism has been a theme of mine for years. It’s more sneaky than the more bombastic rise of nationalism and fascism, but fuck those shitty philosophical movements too.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 24, 20 7:09 pm
"Conflating these two statues is an exercise in cognitive dissonance, which dilutes the national conversation. Instead of acquiescing to those who mistakenly point to the Soviet statue as a double-standard, we must remain steadfast in focusing on America, first."
Boris Krichevsky
drums please, Fab?
Jun 24, 20 7:10 pm
square. i think that's Tucker Carlson, who i worship RELIGIOUSLY!!!! and it's absolutely true.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 7:11 pm
Ha. Interesting how “America, first” is his last line
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 7:11 pm
Secretly all socialists are nationalists. True story
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 24, 20 7:21 pm
(I'm going to let you in on a secret, being a nationalist, not an ethno-nationalist, is actually not a terrible idea.)
"Does the future belong to egalitarian cultural pluralism, in which sharp group distinctions remain yet ethnic hierarchy somehow melts away? Or should we pursue a melting-pot nationalism, in which bright boundaries between groups blur over time, and civic equality and national unity prove mutually reinforcing? I’ve come to believe that the latter ideal is ultimately the more realistic and fruitful. But I’m keenly aware that the clash between these two visions won’t be resolved anytime soon."
This is important particularly when we are juxtaposing it with the illiberal nationalism of Hungary or Poland—or indeed of the American alt-right ideologues who promoted Donald Trump. These “liberal democratic principles” can be broadly defined as
regular free and fair elections;
protections for minority rights anchored in a constitution (or equivalents, like Israel’s Basic Laws);
the rule of law including an independent judiciary; and
freedom of speech, worship, press, and association guaranteed to all citizens.
square.
Jun 25, 20 9:00 am
you say "i was trump before trump" like it's a good thing
square.
Jun 25, 20 9:01 am
two points on marx:
1) cultural marxism is an anti-semitic trope used by the far right- i would do a little more digging into the history of the term before you keep slinging it around:
The conspiracy theorists claim that these “cultural Marxists” began to use insidious forms of psychological manipulation to upend the west. Then, when Nazism forced the (mostly Jewish) members of the Frankfurt School to move to America, they had, the story goes, a chance to undermine the culture and values that had sustained the world’s most powerful capitalist nation.
2) marx had some great ideas (of course along with some not great ones). i suggest you read capital, it has some analysis you might like. but you won't because your binary brain only sees black and white, i.e. marx = bad.
x-jla
Jun 25, 20 11:24 am
The application of Marxism requires authoritarianism. It’s a foolish philosophy. “Cultural Marxism” is not an anti Semitic trope. That’s absolutely ridiculous. It’s exactly what preceded in Venezuela, China, etc. you are trying to use the old, criticism = racism trick. It’s completely silly to make that leap. Yes, some Jews who settled in ny mostly were Marxist’s, and the that was used to discriminate, but that has nothing to do with criticism of the philosophy itself. Italians were associated with anarchy in the early 1900’s, and it was part of the basis of discrimination as well. Does that mean that we can’t criticize anarchy?
x-jla
Jun 25, 20 11:30 am
AND, stop trying to associate ME with trump. You have more in common with trump than I. Just because 2 different people dislike the same thing, that doesn’t mean their philosophies Align. You are again trying to attack character and intent rather than contend with the points being made.
square.
Jun 25, 20 11:33 am
i'm not saying you shouldn't criticize the philosophy of marx, but that the specific term "cultural marxism" has antisemitic roots, which is why the far right loves to use it. do what you wish with the article i posted. here's some more literature:
^this from the same source (reason, a "free market" magazine) you posted below:
The cultural Marxism conspiracy cultist who made the most hideous public impact was Anders Breivik, who murdered 77 people in Norway in 2011. Breivik wrote in his 1,500-page manifesto that "you cannot defeat Islamization or halt/reverse the Islamic colonization of Western Europe without first removing the political doctrines manifested through multiculturalism/cultural Marxism."
serious question- have you actually read any marx?
square.
Jun 25, 20 11:40 am
i'm clearly not dodging and directly engaging in your use of antisemitic terminology- it is you who continues to feign ignorance while using it, but your choice to associate with the likes of breivik.
x-jla
Jun 25, 20 12:35 pm
I guess you associate with the likes of Stalin and Kim Jung Un then if we are playing that game. Lol. I read Marx back in college. It’s a philosophy that goes in contrast to human nature and thus requires enormous amounts of imposing controls at the hands of authoritarians.
x-jla
Jun 25, 20 12:38 pm
Cultural Marxism is not a conspiracy theory. You lefties have 2 convenient tools. 1. Call it racist and discredit the source. 2. Call it a conspiracy theory and undermine the idea entirely.
square.
Jun 25, 20 12:38 pm
i'm able to disassociate the philosophy from those that might skew it or misuse it.
The rise of cultural Marxism has been a theme of mine for years.
did you read the article? having read it, i understand your political philosophy much better. anyone who wants to see jxlax's true colors should also read it:
not going to allow you to dodge the point that you believe in and continue to use an antisemitic term also used by buchanan, breitbart, hannity and breivik.
x-jla
Jun 25, 20 12:44 pm
Haha. The funny not so funny part is that leftism, when activated fully, goes against liberalism. True story. I think most liberals believe that leftists are more woke liberals. They are not. They are a totally different animal. I’m a liberal in the classical sense, not a leftist.
square.
Jun 25, 20 12:47 pm
the author of the reason article wrote a book about ron paul, and even he understands the logical fallacy in associating marx with cultural marxism. he's what a real libertarian looks like, not a conservative masquerading as one.
Cultural Marxism
A collectivist application of Marxist class warfare along a far broader spectrum of identities, such as race, gender, and sexuality, as opposed to solely along class lines; intersectionality.
First, Marxism only spoke to the oppression of the proletariat by the bourgeoisie, but now men oppress women, whites oppress blacks, heterosexuals oppress homosexuals, the able-bodied oppress the disabled, & cisgendered folk oppress trans folk; WHO you are is irrelevant, all that matters now is WHAT you are, which groups you are a member of, your personhood reduced to your arbitrary characteristics, to that of an object; this is Cultural Marxism.“
square.
Jun 25, 20 12:55 pm
The twist was to begin dragging Karl Marx into it. Here's how the narrative goes: After the horrific deaths of millions, global communism may have been discredited as a viable economic system, but its proponents want to sneak it perniciously through the back door via cultural decadence. Thus, political correctness is part of a lefty long con to take over America.
You have to give the conspiratorial right credit for clever rhetorical deck-stacking, at least. How can you approve of sympathetic gay people appearing in yogurt commercials if it's all a commie plot?
It may be comforting to believe your ideological foes are dupes of manipulative intellectual fiends. But declaring that advocates of multiculturalism, feminism, and gay rights are the pawns of dead Jewish communists is both mistaken as a matter of cultural history and foolish as a way to sell an alternate ideology. You won't win the day by treating people who merely disagree with you as stalking horses for socialist tyranny.
You might think that a history of cultural Marxism would start with Marx, but the poorly coiffed Prussian has almost nothing to do with this tale of insidious infiltration. Instead, the theory took off in the late 1990s due to speeches, essays, and books by William Lind, then with the Free Congress Foundation, and Patrick Buchanan, the firebrand conservative columnist, TV talking head, and sometime presidential candidate.
x-jla
Jun 25, 20 12:55 pm
^per urban dictionary
square.
Jun 25, 20 12:56 pm
your only source in this debate is urban dictionary? telling.
x-jla
Jun 25, 20 12:57 pm
Intersectionality is not a prevalent theme these days?
x-jla
Jun 25, 20 1:00 pm
I don’t see a conspiracy theory. It’s an observation that is entirely true. In recent decades we’ve seen a movement away from the idea that individuality is the primary mode we operate with to one that puts our identity above all else. Hence Identity politics. With this, some Marxist Economic ideals are attached in the packaging.
x-jla
Jun 25, 20 1:00 pm
I don’t see a conspiracy theory. It’s an observation that is entirely true. In recent decades we’ve seen a movement away from the idea that individuality is the primary mode we operate with to one that puts our identity above all else. Hence Identity politics. With this, some Marxist Economic ideals are attached in the packaging.
x-jla
Jun 25, 20 1:01 pm
square, I can find many sources, but it’s not worth my time.
tduds
Jun 24, 20 3:21 pm
,
Non Sequitur
Jun 24, 20 4:09 pm
your name's Bart right?
Everyday Architect
Jun 24, 20 5:37 pm
I came back to check how things were going and basically thought this same thing. Kudos tduds for winning the internet today.
Chad Miller
Jun 24, 20 5:25 pm
x-jla - do you not have any clients that you can spend so much time here typing at people? I doubt anyone you're typing at will change their minds because of the text you spewed out.
x-jla
Jun 24, 20 5:43 pm
I’m multitasking.
Chad Miller
Jun 25, 20 10:25 am
No such thing.
randomised
Jun 25, 20 2:47 pm
Multitasking when doing production work is very difficult, multitasking during the creative process is often when best ideas are born, in my experience.
SneakyPete
Jun 25, 20 2:59 pm
People who claim to be good at multitasking are the worst at it, according to some studies.
x-jla
Jun 25, 20 3:17 pm
I’m not good at it. I also work between 8am and 12am as I please unless I have construction going on....
Everyday Architect
Jun 24, 20 5:50 pm
Before I make my exit like Grampa Simpson I'll throw out a few definitions of some of the logical fallacies rampant in the discussion
And of course the classic Straw Man which has been manifest from post #1
square.
Jun 24, 20 6:56 pm
or holier-than-thouism.. kidding. my favorite other one is ad hominem
drums please, Fab?
Jun 24, 20 7:12 pm
y'all straw the man as much as anyone. so much straw they fill the pacific and choke the poor turtles on noes!
SneakyPete
Jun 24, 20 7:26 pm
the day you do anything except stand back and throw trash into the dumpster fire from the sidelines is the day I care about anything you have to say "fab"
drums please, Fab?
Jun 24, 20 8:08 pm
yes but whatabout chairman mao and the cultural revolution? seems like a slippery slope we be going down. look it's either right or wrong, right? (or wrong?) right. oh, is that a squirrel over there gotta go!
b3tadine[sutures]
Jun 24, 20 8:48 pm
Makes getting ready for work easier, I'm all for it.
Less controversial has been the decision by the American Museum of Natural History to remove a statue of Teddy Roosevelt from its front entrance. While the statue is officially on public land, it clearly is intended as part of the museum and is seen as such. The museum is a private entity and is no longer comfortable with the way the statue represents the organization—a decision it has the right to make.
while i don't agree with all of it, this piece shows some good nuance- this was my original point in your equating what was happening at the natural history museum with other monuments.
x-jla
Jun 25, 20 11:16 am
Hmmm. I didn’t know that the museum was privatized.
x-jla
Jun 25, 20 2:50 pm
this whole thing is a libertarian movement that thinks it’s a leftist movement. It’s soon going to come full circle.
SneakyPete
Jun 25, 20 3:00 pm
The only thing that is full circle is how some heads are so firmly up their connected assholes that the owners can see out of their own eye sockets twice.
x-jla
Jun 25, 20 3:13 pm
What is the end goal?
SneakyPete
Jun 25, 20 3:41 pm
double vision?
gwharton
Jun 29, 20 1:01 pm
Any sufficiently advanced form of lolbertarianism is indistinguishable from a leftist movement.
randomised
Jun 28, 20 3:24 pm
*bump*
x-jla
Jun 29, 20 12:44 am
Not worth it, if you make good points the thread will evaporate. Waste of time.
randomised
Jun 29, 20 4:41 am
The other thread was destroyed like a Buddhist sculpture probably because of Rick getting a bit overexcited, not because of the good points people were making, I think.
gwharton
Jun 29, 20 1:00 pm
No. The other thread got deep-sixed because people couldn't stop hurling insults at each other.
revolutionary poet
Jun 28, 20 4:03 pm
.
randomised
Jun 29, 20 10:55 am
Awesome YT-channel by the way.
Everyday Architect
Jun 29, 20 12:23 am
Lest an unsuspecting someone wander in here and wonder what precipitated the CHAZ/CHOP ... this did.
x-jla
Jun 29, 20 12:39 pm
Have you watched Waco on Netflix? Good series, and wow did those agents fuck up. I’m just troubled by this recent abandonment of the “2 wrongs don’t make a right” Principle that we all used to learn when we were 3.
x-jla
Jun 29, 20 12:42 pm
It’s completely logical to say, police are assholes and citizens are assholes without any contradictions whatsoever. Just because your rights to peaceful protest was crushed by a military style police force doesn’t give you the right to occupy a city block and create an annoyance and potential danger for residents and businesses.
Everyday Architect
Jun 29, 20 12:52 pm
That's an inference not based in anything I've written here. I was only pointing out that the protesters didn't just up and decide one day that they were going to take over the streets without any reason. Action ... reaction ... more reactions ... etc. Per your usual MO, you attempt to simplify things to a point where anything could be absurd (straw man fallacy) and this was simply pointing out that it's more complicated than you're portraying it here.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=28s9kWsZ-nA
I could rehash the hilarity of this all, but Shapiro says it best. I say let the zone stay occupied, and let them devolve into tyranny while America watches Orwell’s ‘Animal Farm’ play out in real life.
love the shirt that random wanker screaming "who do work for" in the background.
Their list of demands is fucking beyond hilarious. They want free college, but claim to be “separate from the US”. I say let them succeed and then charge them out of country tuition hahahhah. They want to abolish all courts, and release everyone from prison. Oh please start with the cannibals! Please! We’ve been so good these past 3 months, and Tiger King is over...we need more entertainment:)
some demands are out there, but free/extremely cheap college is common in most of the developed world (college used to be affordable in this country not that long ago). there used to be plenty of people that scoffed at free secondary education. or any education.
Financing tuition through taxes works for other countries. In 2014, Germany abolished tuition for all students from the European Union. Ireland, France, Norway, Sweden and Denmark charge no tuition for all European Union students, and provide low-interest loans to cover other college expenses: in Sweden, at a rate of just 0.13 percent. In Australia and Britain, public tuition is half what Americans pay, and in Israel, a 10th. In Australia, students repay loans as a percentage of income when they reach a livable income threshold.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/0...
They don’t live in the country anymore according to them, so they pay out of state tuition.
I agree with the idea of cheaper college.
.
"Shapiro says it best"
Fuck off. Fuck off. Fuck off. FUCK. OFF.
He’s a smart lad
No he isn't.
people with different opinions are not smart.
Not what I said.
Like two days ago I accused you of insisting on rehashing the same argument everytime it comes up, as if we've never talked about it before. Lo and behold:
So we can only cite left biased media?
Not what I said.
Shapiro uses intimidation tactics, such as faster-than-average speaking, talking over his opponent, things like that to make you think he's "winning" the argument.
Two things...
who is this shapiro chap? The only other shapiro I've heard of is this ambulance chasing wanker:
EA, I don’t see why you can’t watch his video. He’s a very logical guy that presents a respectable and honest conservative perspective. He is not a trumpster either.
Can’t watch people I disagree with is a ridiculous notion.
I never said anything about disagreeing with him or that I wouldn't watch it. I said I don't feel like giving him revenue through clicks but that's all. It's a simple request ... not a demand. At this point, without watching the video, it's anybody's guess as to what you're even going on about. If it's more than a fringe issue, I'm sure there are other outlets writing/posting about it. Even a quick synopsis in your own words would be better than some vague references and a link.
I don’t know. I’m sure that there are vids of it. Synapsis: Antifa and or some others took over 8 blocks in Seattle. Their “socialist anarchist” utopia devolved into a police state within 24 hours. Armed members demanded ID to enter and leave, threatening to “blow your mf brains out” and that “they are the police now”. Because they were graffiti on wrong buildings or something. So basically they have a wall, a violent police force, stop and frisk policy, etc. all the things they sought to escape.
I say let it play out. It’s like a social experiment.
I haven't really been following the day to day too closely but I'm also down with letting it play out.
Oh, you're talking about the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (#CHAZ). If Shapiro is only talking about the things you just mentioned, he (and you) are quite far off from what seems to actually be happening. Of course, if you had looked for other sources to corroborate what you accepted from Shapiro, you would have known that. Here are a couple of local articles people might find interesting:
Hahah. Yeah, those are definitely not biased sources.
First, residents pay taxes for police protection of property. If police are not allowed to protect citizens because the mayor is on a far leftist political crusade the state has breached their contract. The public should protest by not paying their taxes. They should sue the state for property damages as well due to state abandonment of police protection.
I also have a feeling that if an armed occupation of right wingers took over an 8 block area of a major city, checked ids, damaged property, and tried to extort businesses, those two papers would NOT write the same thing. This is hypocrisy at its finest. These fucktards have zero authority to hold a neighborhood siege. They weren’t voted in. So much for “democracy”.
I never claimed they weren't biased, but since you bring it up ... Seattle Times ranks Left-Center, MyNorthwest ranks Right-Center, and your boy Ben Shapiro's platform, The Daily Wire, ranks Right. So mine should balance each other out while your source just sits much further to the right. Glad we cleared that up.
Weren't you the one that brought up the armed ranchers who took over the wildlife refuge recently ... how'd that end for you?
...
Also, ask the people in the neighborhood, not Ben Shapiro, if they feel like they are under siege.
Yes, I did. Weren’t you the one that justified the raid that ended in ones death?
The situation is also far different. The refuge was a piece of land. This is a city filled with residents, some who may oppose the occupation....anyway, see police chiefs vid below...
I justified nothing in my statement. I was simply trying to point out that you're not even close to comparing apples with other apples
Right, so if the occupation was by a group of armed right wingers, would the tactic of vandalism, and taking over 8 city blocks, including a police station be acceptable? Can right wingers do the same?
Can libertarians do the same to protest the NSA?
Whataboutism
lol @ chiding me for saying Ben Shapiro isn't credible but dismissing the largest newspaper in the PNW because it's "biased"
Where's the part where it dawns on lax, that the "occupation was by a group of armed right wingers" happened, some 300+ years ago, and that it happened in the 20th and 21st century too. Randy Weaver comes to mind, those fucking ranchers, and any of those white nationalists...
SPLC
"residents pay taxes for police protection of property"
Literally stating what police are about, and the fallacy that they are there to protect "people"...
You know what other property owners paid "police" for property protection? Slave owners.
Ha. Cool, so when if steal your car, or vandalize your house you not calling the cops? Fuck design, I should just become a robber in Seattle!
There are laws against damaging people’s property and stuff. The cops are there to enforce the law.
The answer to your two questions; In Minneapolis, police don't rush out if my car is stolen. If they're not busy killing black men, then a report is taken. Second, what kind of vandalism? TP? Eggs? Paper bag of dog shit? No, I won't call the cops. Do you know how copping works?
You know what I mean.
And your hyperbole isn’t helping the real situation. The statistics don’t support that claim that black men are being hunted down by cops. In 2019 14 unarmed blacks were killed and 25 unarmed whites. Of course there are more blacks per capita, because they only represent 13% of the population, but black neighborhoods are also typically higher crime neighborhoods, and are more heavily policed. Yes it’s a problem, no it’s not the main problem facing the black community. Facts are facts. This isn’t to minimize the issue, and zero unarmed people should be shot in a perfect world, but the hyperbole is just creating paranoia.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police-shootings-2019/
I don’t like cops, but also don’t see how a world without cops can exist unless a) everyone is armed and capable of self protection b) crime goes away for the first time in history c) we replace cops with some other security force that are completely free of all bad human traits.
Ugh.
WaPo
Those numbers should also take the socioeconomic situation into consideration I suppose, to get a more complete picture:
"Previous research examining decisions to shoot using computer simulations has found that people tend to be biased toward shooting Black suspects (i.e., participants tend to be quick to shoot Black suspects and to mistakenly shoot unarmed Black suspects). Additionally, research has found that White people tend to perceive poor Whites as a threat and respond negatively toward poor White people. The present work examines influences of both race and socioeconomic status on decisions to shoot during a computer simulation task. The results indicate that socioeconomic status level of the suspect influenced participants’ responses to the shooter task, while race of the suspect had little impact. Specifically, participants’ were faster to shoot armed low socioeconomic status individuals as compared to armed high socioeconomic status individuals. These findings suggest that stereotypic associations between low socioeconomic status people and criminality may influence decisions to shoot."
https://fsu.digital.flvc.org/i...
^That’s exactly what I said. Lol.
The graph is misleading though. Those numbers in the bar graph represent all deaths by police. They make a mention of unarmed in the paragraph, but the bar graph is not representative of unarmed only. Maths
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police-shootings-2019/
See data below. Can’t post pics on here, but from the WAPO interactive graphics in 2019 1% of blacks killed by police were unarmed. 2% of whites killed by police were unarmed. Imo, this isn’t about race as much as general abuse of power.
Anybody reading Douglas Murray?
In defence of liberalism: resisting a new era of intolerance
"The growing intolerance of freedom of thought, the inability to talk across divides, the way that most of the British establishment, police included, feels the need to pledge fealty to the cause — as though all terrified of ending up on the wrong side — points to a crisis of more than confidence. It is evidence of an underlying morbidity."
(one can replace "British establishment" in that quote with any western establishment really)
“What we are seeing is nothing more or less than the death of the liberal ideal.” Great read. I agree 100%. I was always a liberal, but the liberals turned into pearl clutching leftists.
Shapiro all the way! Trump 2020.
Well, not a fan of Trump, but these dummies has 4 years to get their shit together and ran Biden? The DNC is incompetent. They can’t run a country if they can’t even run a campaign. Now, they insist on bringing the conversation to the far left again. It’s like they are trying to guarantee Trump the win.
Who said I'm a trump fan? but I'm definitely not a democrap.
Not saying you are...just not much of a choice.
"It's me, the middling uninteresting white guy who proudly claims to be 'independent' but only speaks up to criticize liberals and also votes Republican 99% of the time."
Liberals? They don’t seem very liberal.
I didn't ask for an example but way to provide one.
How many republicans believe in gay rights and are pro choice? I call that Independent.
problem is people equate Liberal and Conservative mainly to useless moral policies, there is also the economic front which is far more important and international relations. Only two (2) things matter ever: 1) Economy, 2) Defense
"How many republicans believe in gay rights and are pro choice?"
Plenty, but don't let that stop you from feeling special like mommy said.
If you're into making money, you'd make wedding cakes for everybody, etc...
How many Republicans consistently vote for anti-equal rights / anti-choice candidates because tax cuts are more important to them than their alleged commitment to equality?
I like to imagine x-jla has as punchable face as Ben Shapiro. All-in-one toolbag.
“I want to punch people who have different ideas” - not liberal
I don't wanna punch anything. Ben just has a punchable face and you sound like you have one as well.
Oh, ok. Would you like to participate in the conversation, or did you just want to make that boring statement?
I'm thumb upping X-jla for just point out the obvious about "freedom of speech" and "debate" - none of which exists - thank you Social Media.
x-jla. I love me a good conversation, but this ain't it. Ur a Muppet propaganda generator. Every single issue you take on is the dumbest take possible. Turn off Fox news. It's rotting your tiny brain.
Rusty, you are soooo boring man.
he's gone past fox news. x- is a Qanon acolyte.
increasingly unhinge.. what xlax doesn't get is it's not always the content that is troubling, it's the presentation. which is worrisome.
The “presentation”. Lol. How so?
Hahaha curtram. Question left orthodoxy = trump supporter. False dichotomy guy.
Trump is a race baiting wanna be authoritarian military state superstar. There, I criticized trumpy too.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M7elmhSC5-E
Listen to the Black Female police chief herself....
... address her audience of police officers with no one else there to question her.
And her comments that there were protesters "patrolling" the streets were walked back and clarified later as anecdotal accounts with nothing formally reported ... "'That has not happened affirmatively,' Best said, adding that the police department had based earlier claims on anecdotal reports, including in the news and on social media. 'We haven’t had any formal reports of this occurring.'"
This is also from the police department that posted photos of broken candles, one showing a tag that read "candle," to their twitter and said it was evidence of improvised explosives being thrown at the officers by protesters.
[sarcasm]Very credible source with nothing to gain.[/sarcasm]
Maybe you should watch the Shapiro vid. There is a video of them “new police” threatening people.
I'm 100% sure that Shapiro made sure to research and include the proper context for said video, too. SHIT MY SARCASM SWITCH IS STUCK IN THE ON POSITION.
I decided to open the Shapiro video. I didn't make it past the 2 min mark because he's getting his information on one Fox News video of anecdotal reports and claims that have been debunked, and anonymous user comments on Reddit also debunked.
After the 2 min mark I skimmed through to find the video you claim is there of the "new police" threatening people. There is some video of what looks like people trying to tell others not to vandalize someone's business and saying they "are the police of the community now," ... [sarcasm] no way they could simply mean that the entire community needs to police each other rather than engage in lawlessness [/sarcasm]. But then the video cuts out to some other recording (not really clear if they are from the same source) played as background to some still photos from who knows where. Ben says it's from a youtube video from inside the autonomous zone but gives no proof to corroborate it or even attribute it to an account where it could be corroborated.
What a joke! And you believed this stuff at face value!? You swallowed that bait, hook, line, and sinker. I had more respect for you prior to watching those 2 minutes. You claim to be an independent thinker not swayed by either side, right or left. I call BS on that garbage right now. You've only shown that save for maybe a few issues, you're just a right-wing stooge.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/06/12/raz-simone-accused-of-acting-like-warlord-in-seattles-chaz/amp/
nypost.
First, New York Post ranks as Right-Center bias just so we're up to speed on that and it's clear that you've got all your information so far from right and right-center media. Doesn't make it fake or 100% truth, but just pointing out there is a bias there as you claimed about my articles.
Second, have you even read the article? Look for how it asserts that Raz Simone has been accused of something and see if it offers evidence to corroborate the accusation. Raz himself denies it (as pointed out in the article).
The fuller video that the NY Post linked to (that Ben Shapiro edited), shows a scuffle, yes. I didn't see any guns. I didn't hear anyone claim there was a gun. If you think this kind of thing wouldn't happen as a community tries to prevent people from simply taking advantage of no police presence to engage in lawlessness, you're an idiot.
I did hear someone, not Raz, claim that "we are the police of this community" in an attempt to prevent someone from vandalizing someone's property (thought you'd be all in favor of property rights). Again, we don't know the context of that statement. Sure it fits a narrative that you're hearing about this group being accused of taking up the mantle of police, but I'm not seeing any hard evidence of it (are they detaining people and locking them up? have they started wearing uniforms or something else to show their authority?). They could simply mean that we all (including the man tagging the wall in that "we") have to look out for one another and they were looking out for the business owner who was getting vandalized. That's speculation on my part, but it seems like so is everything you're reading and watching.
The article links to another video showing Raz Simone telling people who are legally allowed to carry firearms and wish to do so, to keep it to the edges, not in the middle, and that he doesn't really even want to see it happening. This was in response to a shooting. Sounds like he and you would get along just fine based on your previous comments about gun ownership rights.
https://nypost.com/video/autonomous-zone-in-seattle-whats-really-going-on-inside-capitol-hill/
Yes, this largely peaceful space is peaceful because it’s filled with like minded people. The US is a place where I should be able to walk around with a MAGA hat. Something tells me that peaceful would end there.
x-jla, correct, you should be able to walk around wearing anything at all times. but, you forget, there are religious people who think they are correct because they have opinions and everything they assume is true and accordingly you're wrong because you're not into their religion. I say we just start stoning MAGA hat wearing people....Imagine if design studio was run this way?
and don't forget Juicy of course
I never said that the place is a violent disaster area, I said that if this experiment were to be allowed to play our over time, the same problems and authoritarian actors would emerge. The useful idiots are very peaceful. Very peaceful. Voids of power attract tyranny. You completely missed the irony of a quasi security force and hierarchy poping up almost instantly lol
Liberland? /\ (the whole void theory)
When I played SimCity, jack shit happened in Voids.
The people with guns? You mean these good Americans?
I'll take these guys any day of the week.
Sheds, Liberland is a voluntary space. This is a superimposed space. I really want it to work, but by the demands made, I’m pretty sure a voluntary fulfillment of the demands is not possible or what they are desiring. They want to force their ideology on others, and want to force others to fulfill their demands. These are ideologues. No different than a religious cult taking over a city block. Their demands are About as removed from reality that only someone ideologically possessed could actually believe in them.
This is voluntary surrender. It's kind of like people from certain religions who tolerate extremists because their ideologies actually align, just one group works and operates in the real world, the other has nothing to lose.
or Liberland?
I’m all about alternatives. Just don’t impose it on people by taking over occupied land. Go to the forest and set up a commune. The Seattle thing is different. They don’t own that land. Other people do.
a) It's Seattle, they are the "anarchist" capital of the USA, like constant clashes with police, but entirely not fruitful. I literally think of Rick B yelling at cops and then going back to his basement. These are not serious people.
b) right now it's bad optics to do shit about them and for the most part, we're in a phase with Covid in which not all businesses should be open anyway.
c) like those cops in Chicago, if you don't like cops - ok, good luck, you're on your own, we'll just eat popcorn and lounge
d) if these "anarchists" have any balls it will end in a standoff and since they are not from a legendary Mormon clan, they'll end up like Waco, TX....but see a) - nothing will happen. Trump is literally muscling against vegan's with guns - no one cares - except for the people not getting 911 call responses in time.
only guy I take serious from Seattle -
https://www.insider.com/inside-chaz-seattle-autonomous-zone-police-expelled-george-floyd-protest-2020-6
ancient, they shut down a police precinct, so that's a real thing
again, if they were a real threat they would all be dead by now. It's Seattle.
They were never a threat. It's clear the police were the only threat isn't it?
What I’ve learned in 2020. Arson is ok if you are legitimately mad. Armed takeovers are also ok if done by the left. Viruses can’t spread in Home Depot.
true JLa-x on Home Depot, they have a kids spraying shit.
Curt, stop going social media on me. I didn't say the cops were a threat, I'm saying in a nice a way possible - CHAZ is a fucking joke, Seattle's over the top liberal values are a joke, It's not serious.
Try doing that shit in Texas, right? It's Seattle. Radically cerebral, but pretty much non-threat. I'm a philosopher I know this, I'm not the guy brawling, I'm the guy talking my friend back down after the brawl. That's Seattle.
Exactly sheds. They aren’t a physical threat, but the elected officials that disregard the people to cater to the fringe is a threat.
It's like dealing with a spoiled brat x-jla, you could discipline them but they'll call social services and make a scene and then wonder why their life goes to shit while blaming everyone else, or just let the spoiled brat express themselves, give them some candy, and go on about your life. I wouldn't say the elected officials are cowards or disregarding their voters, they just figured - let these brats have candy for now and we'll save our police officers, arrest them later....These aren't people with balls, discipline, integrity to their cause, etc... like the Bundy's or Montana Militia's... if they are this will end badly, so I hope they're just youtubers with opinions.
Agree. I still like the idea of releasing the prisoners like they are demanding. We can drop them off in CHAZ and let them live free. I’m sure they will become model citizens without the pesky police. I vote that the first guy we release is the face eating cannibal.
cage match like this
Please. We’ve been so bored during lockdown, and already finished Tiger King. Entertain us
I vote Trump vs Biden and a Honey Badger. two (2) geriatric retards and a bad ass animal. 4 rounds at 0:30.. only speedos (vomit)...go ...John Madden narrates?
Hahaha. I have my money on the honey badger.
here, can’t post images as a reply.
Also, don’t ignore the fact that while blacks are killed at a higher rate by police, they also commit a higher rate of crime and therefore have more police interactions. My point isn't to minimize the problem, but to explain it. You can’t solve something without understanding it in more depth. Reducing crime in poor neighborhoods is key. Increasing opportunity in those areas is key to reduce crime.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43
there's also a correlation between crime and poverty that is more relevant, less so than your highlighting of the correlation between crime and race (yikes). one can attempt to suppress crime through policing it, but this does nothing to address the root of the problem, which is more related to income inequality than anything else. people with adequate means to support themselves (aka those who are paid fairly for what they do) commit less crimes, too. this trend only deteriorates when income becomes excessive, at which point white collar crimes and exploitation become the norm. but don't worry, you probably won't go to jail for that (at least not as long).
https://twitter.com/TalbertSwan/status/1105844790896279552?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1105844790896279552&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fthehill.com%2Fblogs%2Fblog-briefing-room%2Fnews%2F434051-story-of-mother-sentenced-to-jail-for-enrolling-child-in
Holy shit stfu. I literally said that crime is related to lack of opportunity (poverty). You dishonest fucko
“Reducing crime in poor neighborhoods is key. Increasing opportunity in those areas is key to reduce crime.” - x-jla
It was nearly impossible to miss. We aren’t listening to one another.
Race and poverty has correlations that stem from all sorts of things, including systemic racism and latent effects of racial divisions / inequality
Soooo, solving that is more effective than banning police. Banning police will cause a rise in crime, will cause companies to leave, etc.
it was the very last part of your stupid paragraph, so yes it is "easy to miss" because you bury under a layer of other bullshit. you were signaling and emphasizing race as a cause, and policing as a solution, over opportunity, which was written as an afterthought. if you really believed that "increasing opportunity" was the most important thing, you would start with that. this is exactly like your other posts about rioting, and you refuse to acknowledge exactly you are doing. throwing in opportunity as a token argument after dedicating the majority of your words to race = crime, more police! does nothing other than offer empty signaling.
You are intentionally misrepresenting what I said. I literally didn’t say “more police”.....I said “more opportunity”. Empowering communities is more effective than “banning police” and creating “police free zones”. That will have no real sustainable effect. The media and opportunistic activists on the right and left are using the black community to create a narrative for the purpose of exploitation. Also, it’s not as simple to say that poverty = crime. I lived in a poor area of east Africa for a few months. There was almost no crime at all. ZERO. It was the safest I’ve ever felt. The poverty was way greater than anything in the US. The difference was the strength of the community, and the cultural mindset.
In that particular region the only real threat was hippo attacks, lions, and rare but occasional militia raids.
Square, “ Also, don’t ignore the fact that while blacks are killed at a higher rate by police, they also commit a higher rate of crime and therefore have more police interactions. My point isn't to minimize the problem, but to explain it.”. That’s the “layer of bullshit” that buried my point? Seems more like a paragraph intro.
If you looked at the fbi link and compared it to the wapo data, it would make perfect sense. You don’t want to look at data, because it challenges your religion of leftism. It like a bible thumper refusing to look at geological data that challenges the 5000 yo earth narrative. It’s very annoying. I’m not right or left. Just a political atheist
no where did i say i disagree with the data (?). again, more layers of bullshit (straw-man argument). i am challenging your overemphasis on the causality of the data.
do you wonder why so many people consistently have issues with the way you present your arguments, and yourself, on these threads? it's either a) that you are solely right and misunderstood by everyone (all the "leftists" you are constantly at war with) or b) because you endlessly throw out bombastic, unformed and ideological claims and stories to invent fake arguments with others and increasingly yourself (4 posts in a row without a response.. again you're giving trump a run for his twitter money).
aka, you're just a troll.
I’m at war with ideologues, just so happens they are mainly on the left in here. I presented data, you attempted to accused me of underhanded racism, based on the fact that you didn’t read what I wrote past the first sentence. Then made the exact same point that I made. Then accused me of burying the point under 2 sentences that were setting up the point. Who’s trolling?
Besides that, my argument is very simple. Reduce crime = reduced police interactions. Declaring a police free zone is like declaring a heart attack free zone without addressing the cause of heart attacks. If you want to reduce police presence, reduce crime. More police interactions, racism or not, results in more potential for police abuse.
Square. Jla literally has 5 posts in a row in this thread where he's just responding to himself. Is that really worth engaging?
Lol, yeah I was naughty by posting in multiple posts, therefore no need to address the point. The adult version of “I retire champion”
jla-x, your not even attempting to see the point in what b3ta was saying. You’re looking at just the numbers of unarmed people shot in 2019. The graph b3ta posted was for 2015-2019. You’re also only looking at the total numbers without accounting for demographic percentages.
“In 2019, 55 unarmed people were shot and killed by police, with white people accounting for 25 of them, while 14 of them were black.” this is from the WaPo article b3ta posted and matches the numbers you show above.
Here’s the difference in total deaths and the likelihood of someone being shot. 25 white unarmed people out of 55 unarmed people is 45%. Non-Hispanic white people make up about 60% of the total US population, yet less than 60% of the time a cop shoots and kills an unarmed person, that person is white.
For black people, 14 out of 55 is 25%. Blacks or African Americans make up about 13% of the US population. Yet more than 13% of the time a cop shoots an unarmed person, that person is black.
This is why people state that you are more likely to be shot if you’re black. If that wasn’t the case, the percentages would reflect a random sampling of the population which would follow the demographic percentages. Applying that concept to the 55 people who were shot while unarmed in 2019: 33 of them would have been white, and 7 of them would have been black. That obviously wasn’t the case and it shows blacks are killed disproportionately compared to whites even though in total numbers more white people were killed.
No, you obviously didn’t read what I wrote.
I know that. Crime is also related to poverty, and blacks experience more poverty and commit more crime in average. Blacks have more police interactions. Black neighborhoods are more aggressively policed because they have higher crime, and rookie cops are often placed in high crime areas while those with seniority get cushy jobs in the burbs.
then START WITH THIS. you know what you're doing when you throw out vague statistics without explanation. it's called gas-lighting, and it's one of trump's favorite techniques.
It wasn’t vague. I explained it clearly.
Lol. It’s almost comical
you know Che is(was) cool, unless you knew what he had to do to gain power...it's just funny their name and behavior is an oxymoron. and the best Fascist, the OG fascist himself - a journalist
now how do you make this an architectural discussion?
What would Lebbeus Woods have done?
x-jla. I understand exactly what you are doing here, ya pea brained moron. Pacific north west always had a whimsical way of dealing with national politics. Let them figure it out. You are using this particular situation to negate the entire push to end lynching of black american men. Dude, fuck you three ways from Sunday. Why has this entire thread not been deleted already? This is a bad look for Archinect.
Rusty! are you a millenial? wouldn't you want to know what others think?
Dusty ass Rusty- durp thinking is hard duhhh you Like racism because you disagree duhhhh free speech bad except stuff that I like because I’m good ....Duhhh. CHAZ is a bunch of white people using this to promote their political beliefs. It’s exploitation at its finest
Exploitation of the black community and the black psyche by leftists is racism at it’s finest. The Dems have been doing it for years.
The black communities problems will not be solved by white saviors. Anyone who believes that removing police from the black community will result in an era of prosperity and peace is a god damn fool. This is white privilege 2.0 x infinity.
"Why has this entire thread not been deleted already? This is a bad look for Archinect."
Let's hope they don't. CHAZ is a socio-urban experiment, a no-go zone for the police, we don't see that very often in the western world. Future architecture and urbanism students and social geographers etc. will base their thesis around it, mark my words...this thread will be a valuable resource and be archived in the Trump Presidential Library after he steps down against popular demand in 2032 in favour of Ivana.
CHAZ will definitely be a popular thesis topic. Some clear relevance to The Situationists, and Foucault's concept of Heterotopias.
"Exploitation of the black community and the black psyche by leftists is racism at it’s finest. The Dems have been doing it for years."
So you believe that and that we should trust the Right and Republicans to, what, do better?
Absolutely not. They are doing the same. Just different brands of BS. When I bring up the disproportionate response to black on black crime, I’m talking mainly about the media. The right media reports it because they can exploit it. The left media doesn’t. Do the care about Black lives or ratings and political agendas? Same for the political leaders. They are presenting stories in way the sows division and creates a sense of panic for the black community.
I watched the entire 45min body cam video of the killing in Atlanta. What actually happened was so very different than what the media outlets were presenting it to be.
First, very sad to watch. I was tearing up the whole time, because I knew what was coming. The video shows a very unfortunate event, not a racist attack as the left media portrays it, or an out of control black thug like the right media portrays it. The man who was shot seemed like a very calm and sweet guy, even funny at times as he made the cop smile with his responses. He was drunk. We’ve ALL been there. He was cordial and cooperative. The cops were also very professional at first. They weren’t being aggressive with the guy. They were just doing their job. Then, in a minute of confusion, the guy seemingly got scared as the cop went to grab his arm. This was a mistake on the cops part, because he should have eased into it being that the guy was drunk and confused. Push led to shove. He grabbed the taser and ran. The cop wrongly reacted by shooting him. Yes, it was excessive force. No, it doesn’t appear to be a racist attack or intentional, more along the lines of poor training and over vigilance. Probably, he subconsciously felt more threatened because the man was black. I don’t know, you don’t know. All I know is that A seemingly cool guy was drunk and got unnecessarily killed. A seemingly decent cop made a horrible call. It’s hard to judge how a person reacts in the heat of the moment. This is different from the Floyd tape. That was a clearly malicious use of force. I think that these situations are probably more common than the Floyd like situations.
If racism was something only manifested in individual acts, we wouldn't be here. Pull your head out of your ass.
The hyperbolic presentation of problems is designed to incite fear and anger. That’s how they get viewers. Ask yourself this- did cnn and fox profit or take a loss from the coverage? Did the black community profit or take a loss? Whatever minor bs reforms the political leaders give will not solve the root problems. The root problems in US communities, poor communities of all races, but mainly minorities, are beyond the scope of political action. The problems are social, and require social leadership and change from within. Unlike the civil rights movement where there were blatantly racist policies that could be solved by political will, those policies are no longer on the books. Today’s problems are due to the social latent affects of those policies. How the hell can wen possibly “end racism” by demanding its end? Racism is a disease of ignorance. Ignorance isn’t extinguished through political will. Ignorance is extinguished by enlightenment. And who are we trying to reach? Racists. If you want to “end racism” you need to enlighten racists. This requires a peaceful dialogue, not a divisive reactionary lecturing. The real racists aren’t listening to that. It’s just entrenching them more in their own ignorance.
Sneaky Pete, individuals are the components of society. A virus needs to be cured at the cellular level.
It's telling that you equate people to viruses.
I was equating racism to a virus.
I may have gotten the wrong idea. Strange, since you normally choose your words so carefully.
The cops bought Dylan Roof Burger King after he was calmly arrested for the racist murder of 9 Black Churchgoers. Bought him a burger. So, you'll forgive me if I cast some serious side-eye on these cops "not being racist".
Buying food for an arrestee makes one a racist?
I would have spit in that demented little fuckers food, but how does that make the cops in Atlanta automatically racist?
In b3ta-world everybody is a racist unless you're not white or you agree with b3ta-politics.
Show me the drunk white guy running from police, just one, that was shot in the back. One?
It’s awful, but seems less like a policy of racism and more like a deep psychological hyper
*hyper vigilance. My point is, how can that be fixed through policy? If it cannot, then how does the methodology we’ve seen transpire this past month work?
"Show me the drunk white guy running from police, just one, that was shot in the back. One?"
And another argumentum ad ignorantiam from you b3ta, just a fallacy in informal logic...[insert John Locke]
I mean, j-lxa or whatever his* name is is dumb, we all know that, right?
* Clearly he’s a dude because of course he is.
(I’m on my phone so he’s not ignored. Under my real name Donna Sink he’s ignored.)
Yes, he's a very dumb dude.
Guess the weed kicked in, enjoy the ride Donna!
Donna, are you recording the next podcast in this state of inebriation?
Don’t assume my gender.
I assume that if you weren't a man you would have said it before now (oh wait before now you couldn't use it as a hypocritical and stupid attempt at irony).
wondering how this works in CHAZ
Mutual Combat Law of Washington State
“ In 2014, after Zac Efron had engaged in a fight in Skid Row, law enforcement officials did not make any arrests because they viewed it as mutual combat.“. WTF lol
the future of zoning, deciding where Zac Efron can get in fights with Skid Row...
If unarmed police would enter CHAZ and got in a fight with some unarmed protesters, would that be considered a fair fight and would mutual combat apply?
I want to see Zac Efron fight a cop in CHAZ.
Right about where I stopped reading this garbage heap of a thread:
I don’t believe that. I think you read it, but just don’t want to engage with the uncomfortable nature of the topics being discussed.
I've frankly run out of motivation to rehash the same argument with the same people every few weeks. It was a nice couple of years, but I'm over it. I'm gonna make a thread about cooking and hide out there a while.
Enjoy whatever it is you still get out of this behavior.
Ok, no one is forcing you to engage lol. Why do you find it necessary to state this?
tduds, I want to make this next weekend. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMq8lEu-of0
x-jla, every chance you get to bring up your political agenda, you spew dozens and dozens of comments into the Archinect forum in defense of your terribly outdated way of thinking. You are extremely annoying and I won't be responding to you. I just wanted to let you know that most people on this site think you're unhinged.
Incorrect. I’m arguing from a political perspective rooted in classical liberalism (the root philosophy of western civilization)
If you want to undermine the tenants of the base of western civilization you ought to be able to argue with some asshole on the internet
tenets.
Say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude. At least it's an ethos.
Back to CHAZ.....the idea with that is that their particular Leftists ideology is better equipped to provide social justice and end racism. So, therefore adopt xyz or you are not dedicated to stopping racism. That’s an example of “semantic overload”. Worse, the pajama pants Marxists Provide zero evidence to this assumption, while classical liberalism has tended towards more equality overtime albeit slowly.
CHAZ is now CHOP. please try to keep up with the birth of this nation! exciting times indeed!
Organizers refocus message after Seattle's CHAZ becomes CHOP
by writing the word "tenants" I think this technically keeps this an architectural conversation? or did we mean "tenements"?
I meant tenets, but my spelling is awful.
.
It’s completely an architectural convo. The situationists come to mind. (Not to be confused with mike the situation of NJ)
ok, let's make it an architectural/urban planning conversation.
So let's assume this portion of the country is never returned, so to speak. Any estimations on whether they will adopt or create their own zoning or building code? Assuming we're starting from scratch code and zoning wise with existing structures, how might that read?
Will there be a Fire Department if no Police Department? If no fire department, what kind of buildings?
Zoning code 1: no person shall have offensive thoughts while standing within 100’ of a public space
Zoning code 2: all spaces are public
code 3: open flames For recreational use and permitted within CHOP. Protest fires are encouraged and are to not be extinguished unless they threaten a vegan taco shop.
Code4: Every public establishment shall have bathrooms for all 78 genders. Failure to accommodate will result in fire. Exemption: vegan taco shops
Does anyone actually live in CHAP, are there actual residences? Before we talk about fire and police departments...how does it work with the most important thing: garbage collection?
My guess is they got cold feet when they realised what it means to be Autonomous and that's why they renamed it. Very difficult being autonomous when drowning in your own filth with all the trash, rats and excrements floating around, because nobody blocks toilets like vegans do...
cold feet - responsiblity and accountability are a big ordeals for people who fail most their lives, excluding vegan taco shops.
It's taco-tuesday folks. I know what I'm making tonight for diner.
It’s like kids who run away and then realize that life is hard on your own.
Actually, I wonder if CHOP has a porta-potty large enough for this shiite?
CHOP has plenty of porta-potties, and some businesses are letting protests use their facilities. the fire department asked them to remove barriers to allow 13' clear for fire apparatus access. their code is 20', so they were being given somewhat of an exception. the protesters were worried that could leave them exposed to police returning with violence or white nationalists driving into the crowd, which seems to be a thing that happens now. also, there are residents that live above the retail areas. the barricades have blocked some parking garages they would like to use. as far as i can tell, having a bunch of protesters outside your apartment sucks, but police shooting tear gas at your apartment is probably worse.
good thing we're in a pandemic /\. ah...so the fire department stays. This means wood construction would be allowed? Which means you could build little homes and shacks, get rid of streets and house the homeless....ok I'm running for office in CHOP town.
I’m blocking off my street this weekend. I’m only allowing in hot chicks.
I'm sure your street will have a person on it, then.
.
is this comedy? parody? this thread has literally turned into fox/aon... and randomised, i suggest you stick to your own country's cultural affairs.. you have no credibility in posting this from across the ocean. one can spend their time on this thread regurgitating the same paranoid bs about a small minority "movement," OR one could focus on a history that has suppressed any dissent from minorities. maybe some are over reacting (who am i to say.. maybe people are just tired of not being heard?), but the overwhelming history in this country is one built on violence and exploitation, and if your outrage isn't focused there, it's quite telling.
If only it was comedy :-( You're CANCELLING me because of where I come from? Some would argue that's racist. If your country would take their fucking nukes out of my country and stop occupying us, maybe I would leave this discussion. The US is interfering with everything all over the world all the time, don't be a hypocrite simply because you don't like what you read. By the way, we have BLM protests over here too, statues being vandalised etc. So it is not just an American topic unfortunately. Just doing my part here, pitching in, giving my 2 cents and providing some sources that otherwise might be overlooked by y'all. It really doesn't hurt to read opinions one does not agree with.
country doesn't = race. shocked i have to explain that to you. i'm not canceling you, i'm questioning your credibility and relevance. in other words, you have no idea what you're talking about in this specific situation happening in seattle (i hope you have at least been there). and this movie isn't informed opinion, its sensationalized fear mongering. you all are creating a wild boogeyman to argue with.. i'm trying to say this is a small fringe issue that doesn't represent "one side." it's akin to trump's insistence on labeling every protestor, including 75 year olds, antifa.
i agree on the nuke point.. but really unclear what that has to do with the social justice warrior video you posted. they would agree with you.
A statue of a Quaker abolitionist was vandalized. There isn’t really much logic going on with the statue thing. These kids should wait until they’ve finished their history class to go after statues.
“John Greenleaf Whittier did not enslave people, and indeed, was a leading anti-slavery activist in his time, in addition to being a renowned poet,” Celia Caust-Ellenbogen, archivist at the Friends Historical Library of Swarthmore College, wrote in response to an email query by this newspaper.
He was a delegate to the first meeting of the American Anti-Slavery Convention, edited anti-slavery newspapers, helped to establish the Liberty Party, wrote numerous poems supporting the abolitionist cause as well as an 1833 tract in favor of immediate and unconditional emancipation of enslaved people, according to Caust-Ellenbogen.
“However, it is important to acknowledge the reasons why the protesters are so frustrated,” she said.
“While Whittier is celebrated for his poetry and his activist legacy, there are numerous African American poets and activists of his era – such as Frances E.W. Harper, James Madison Bell, and James M. Whitfield – who have received too little recognition. The statues in this country over-represent the influence of White people and under-represent the importance of people of color, especially African American people, in our nation’s history.”
Lmfao. The media is of course providing the vandals an excuse...They were angry that black poets in the 1800s weren’t recognized...like they fucking knew who the guy was lmfao!
The Media is a disgrace.
Square, it is a nativist and segregationist (and thus racist) point of view to ban people from discussing a certain topic because of the country they are from, don't be such a bigot, you're better than that.
Especially in a topic called the autonomous zone, if you don't want to discuss that, don't come to x-jla's thread and whine and complain about it, go hide out in your safe space ;-)
The nuke point was relevant to your comment that I shouldn't interfere in this discussion because I'm not American (you sound a lot like Trump tbh). Since my country is occupied by American armed forces and your nuclear weapons, I have a say in any discussion about American politics or culture etc., your politics are my politics (unfortunately).
You have committed and are committing cultural genocide wherever you send your troops and station your nukes, so don't get me started...Before your invasion we were a cultured people, could have intelligent conversations in French, German or English in cafés drinking proper coffee from porcelain cups (not to be confused with your bars or Starbucks), European music was played on the radio (you should see my dad's record collection!), we were wearing decent clothes that could be passed on from generation to generation and our cinema, my god our cinema...you came in and fucked it all up with your sneakers, disgusting McDonalds "food", coffee in paper cups with straws, your Hollywood blockbusters, pop music and your fear mongering against our superior social democracy.
So, I think I will stick around here and annoy you a little more...
randomised, you're an asshole. Don't let anyone ever tell you different.
unhinged... i clearly touched a nerve. you all are more fragile than the sjws you hate: you want argument yet instantly cry “i’m being canceled” the minute you’re called out. even though 90% of people on here call out the insanity you spew as unhinged, you’re still about to do so. having fringe conspiracy based views that are unpopular isnt the
same as being censored.
you still know nothing about race in america and it’s laughable you think you might have a relevant opinion on the topic. not to mention.. if you’re so anti-imperialism wouldn’t you be cheering on the chaz? the contradictions are dumbfounding..
Thanks Sneaky for those words of encouragement.
Square, unhinged, moi, get outta here! Just putting it all in perspective, there's more than one side you silly snowflake. And I actually am being censored when posts just seem to disappear when in a lively discussion with some hack moderator, or exploring angles that are maybe uncomfortable or unpleasant for some to discuss or realise.
And to be clear, I do like the Utopian ideals underlying CHAZ/CHOP, but I also know that people are usually selfish arseholes. That I post a link to some youtube video (made by a Dutch filmmaker by the way, that's why I thought it might give a fresher look on things) or some articles, doesn't always necessarily mean that my views align 100% with the material posted, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, they most likely do when it's about freedom of speech for example. Sometimes it's just good to look at things from a different perspective. Just limiting yourself to a single point of view all the time is not very healthy in my opinion, it is good to test your beliefs and points of view from time to time.
Just let me be that arsehole that forces you to think about your own opinions, I don't care. My father used to read all the major newspapers across the entire ideological spectrum, it helps you to form your own opinion and realise that there is always more than one side to a story/topic, he even ran for public office, although he did not get elected.
And I do know something about race, most of my friends growing up were non-White, most of my girlfriends too, my family lives across 4 or 5 continents, hell even my kids are multicultural, so yeah...and about race in America...I've lived and worked there myself, but even if I hadn't that's no reason not to be allowed to express my opinion on the topic. Here's something hopefully worth your while:
again, you're conflating censorship with credibility. you can say whatever the hell you want, but the reason no one takes you seriously on the subject is because you don't have any stake in the game, so to speak. i don't comment on race relations in europe, and i find it strange you spend so much time on a us based architecture website, lately a lot of it dedicated to threads on race in america. your energy would be better spent elsewhere nostalgically sipping from porcelain cups...
also, daddy issues?
Nope, wrong again/still square...posts being removed IS censorship. I have more stake in the game than you might think, it's a universal topic, as I said we had BLM protests here as well, even a Ghandi statue was defaced today in my city.
You can find it strange all you like, I don't mind you commenting on race relations in Europe. I'm just providing you with an angle that's not very common in your binary political landscape: "you're either with us/US or against us/US". You just can't take it that I'm schooling you as a relative outsider, although I would argue as a dweller in a true multicultural city I have more stake in the game than some White American living in an all-White Midwestern 'Paradise' on these forums, for example.
Only brought up my dad as an example of being open to other opinions and perspectives, apparently that too went over your head...typical square.
you can continue to air your grievances and wage your imaginary, fragile war all you want, but your incoherent rants speak loudly enough for themselves.
Apparently those so-called rants are the exact volume that resonate very well with you...think I hit the sweet spot!
I have a dad, too. He also had opinions. Therefore I am right and unimpeachable.
"And I do know something about race, most of my friends growing up were non-White, most of my girlfriends too, my family lives across 4 or 5 continents, hell even my kids are multicultural, so yeah..." language of an unaware racist
“again, you're conflating censorship with credibility. you can say whatever the hell you want, but the reason no one takes you seriously on the subject is because you don't have any stake in the game, so to speak. “. That assertion is the problem with the modern day leftists. The idea used to be that we are all different, but capable of thinking from multiple points of view, because we are all first and foremost humans with similar basic human desires and needs.
The identity politics crowd flipped the script on this, making ones racial identity the primary source of their experience.
jxlax- i was hoping you wouldn't use your typical "leftist" trope/catch all. i would actually argue that you DO have a stake in this argument, even if your opinions are different, and i've never questioned your credibility on that front. europeans, on the other hand, really can't understand race in america because it's not their lived experience. this is the politics of grievance though.. point out someone's lack of legitimacy on an issue and it turns into crying about being cancelled.
also, yes hahadude.. one of the many sad ideas in rando's rants, but there are too many to name.
Square, fair enough, but I’m making a distinction between liberals pre and post identity politics. Do you not see a difference in the expectations of universal empathy between old school liberals and modern leftists? It’s not a trope so much as an overall world view.
i have a hard time knowing how to respond to broad generalizations like this.. i mean do i like the video of the students yelling at the teacher? no. but am i sympathetic with the fact that the "left" has been suppressed and criminalized in this country for a very long time, in the ways the right never has been (mcarthyism..)? yes. not to mention there are many different shades of left, and while i identify with the left in many ways, i wouldn't consider myself in complete alignment with "liberals" on everything (over emphasis of the individual, for example), just as bernie sanders might have a difficult time defining what identity politics can do, so at best i can respond to individual scenarios, not broad assumptions. at the end of the day, what we're seeing is a reaction against 40+ years neoliberal politics, as well as a long dismantling of the new deal consensus, that are both long over due. it may, and probably will, "overreact" in some ways but that is history. the problem is now many on the right have never seen their majority and supremacy challenged and are uncomfortable with that, hence the grievances.
Sneaky, you exactly don't get the point I'm trying to make about my dad...It's not about having opinions but about daring to challenge your opinions and daring to expose yourself to other opinions outside of your own comfy bubble, but whatever...pearls before swine.
Hadude, some people just see racists everywhere, like Uncle Leo antisemites...it's just an excuse for the inability to engage in a discussion and the possibility of having your beliefs questioned, cognitive dissonance...
Square, It's very easy to dismiss something being said just because of where someone is from, the colour of their skin or their gender, and only accept contributions from people of the right skin colour, the right country of birth or the right gender. In that case you've become what you claim to oppose, fighting racism with more racism, sexism with more sexism etc. It's the horseshoe theory in practice.
I’m not involving myself in the conversation that clearly has no beneficial outcome for anyone. I’m just letting you know that just because you have friends and dated women that are non-white doesn’t make you an expert in non-white issues. Above, is something that can benefit anyone, and I hope you don’t use that as an excuse to pretend like you know what you’re talking about when it comes to POC any longer.
You already did involve yourself in the conversation, can't chicken out now ;-)...I know it's not my friends, girlfriends or even children that make me an expert on those issues, but I'm not unaware of them either because of how I grew up, it's just a little context. You don't need to be a Jew to discuss antisemitism either. Racism is not solely a non-white issue, it's a human issue and the declaration of human rights is universal for a reason.
So shut up and listen to the self-proclaimed experts, namely x-lax, random-dude, and archised.
Might have gotten their names wrong, it's tough to tell them apart by the sanctimony alone.
race in AMERICA was my point rando, don't twist my words you simpleton. though maybe you're right, next time i need plumbing advice, i'll call my doctor. they deserve to be heard too!
I would never tell someone to simply shut up and listen SneakyPete, those are not my tactics...everybody deserves to be heard regardless of race, gender, political affiliation etc.
Square, what words am I twisting? And if you have plumbing issues please do call your doctor, maybe you simply need to change your diet, garbage in garbage out...
rando: “all opinions matter”
square: "only opinions I agree with matter"
Defeating White supremacy without White people creates Black supremacy. Equality is the truth.
Like it or not, we are all in this together.
–Terry Crews
rando: "only anonymous racist Dutch opinions matter"
.
……..…../´¯/)………… (\¯`\
…………/….//……….. …\\….\
………../….//………… ….\\….\
…../´¯/…./´¯\………../¯ `\….\¯`\
.././…/…./…./.|_……_| .\….\….\…\.\..
(.(….(….(…./.)..)..(..(. \….)….)….)… )
.\…………….\/…/….\. ..\/……………./
..\…………….. /……..\……………..…/
….\…………..(…………)……………./
holy shit, “black supremacy”... you must truly be nostalgic for the old days of the dutch east india company. no need for my help, you’ve done a fine job canceling yourself, buddy.
Too bad you focus on those two words of Terry Crews' tweet...it is about equality and that we are all in this together what should've triggered you. Can't reach or work towards equality and try putting an end to systemic racism by excluding people based on their race...too bad the irony is lost on you there.
I think I hit a nerve with Rando. I find it odd that the little dutch boy can dish it out but can't take it. Try harder.
“I’ve learned that people will take anything you say and twist it for their own evil. Anything.” -Terry Crews
(He's talking about you, Rando!)
SneakyPete, what's evil in wanting equality and try putting an end to systemic racism you moron? Can't end those by excluding people of the conversation or debate based on their race...that's racist!
And Chad if you call me a Dutch racist or whatever, don't expect me to just sit back and take it...why my nationality has to be brought into it anyways? Chad, you are just being a racist bully, just like SneakyPete and square:
I'm making fun of you because you're a racist prick. Just because somebody doesn't agree with you doesn't mean you're being bullied. Calling you a little Dutch boy isn't being racist, it's an insult yes. If I had said that because your Dutch then (insert derogatory adjective), that would be racist. Now please go spread you racist crap elsewhere you anonymous, cowardly, brat. That was an insult btw.
I've excluded you by talking to you? Sounds like rando-logic to me.
Chad, show me where I'm being racist. What is racist in wanting equality and trying to put an end to systemic racism by NOT excluding people from the conversation or debate based on the colour of their skin? Just show me...and I'm not going anywhere, I don't budge for racist bullies like you.
"I've excluded you by talking to you? Sounds like rando-logic to me."
Nope don't jump to conclusions just yet and again, it's about the broader aspects of things, like mentioned in TC's tweet about ending White supremacy while excluding White people, doesn't make much sense to me when one wants unity and equality...
"SneakyPete, what's evil in wanting equality and try putting an end to systemic racism you moron? Can't end those by excluding people of the conversation or debate based on their race...that's racist!"
I don't recall excluding anyone, and you accused me of doing that in the above post. But please use this shovel if you'd like to try and dig back up .
I believe I've only called one person a racist (please point out if I am wrong) and that isn't you.
I don't accuse you of excluding anyone, but what I mean is that in general one can't end racism by excluding people since that is racist...I'm arguing that position in a post to you, not you in person. There's a difference. I'm also not saying you're calling me a racist, chad is.
Excluding white people from a conversation about racism is foolish, not racist. This is my OPINION, and I do not mean to imply that white people should be included for their OPINIONS. White people need to be included so they can learn and change.
I think “white people” is a too broad of a category to mean anything. An Person of Italian decent that wasn’t in the US until 1920, and grew up in an Italian neighborhood in NJ, shares less cultural similarities with an old money southern family than with...say a Mexican American family. There are also historical oppression that Italians faced, not to the degree of blacks, but probably on par or greater than what Mexican Americans face today...Irish, Jewish, polish, Italian, etc make up a good chunk of “white peoples”. This is where the white guilt thing gets lost. Being from NY, most of the “white people” I know are either Jewish, Irish, or Italian. They don’t feel that white guilt like self identifying “white people” and they never say that they are “white” if you ask. They will say Jewish, Irish, etc.
SneakyPete, it is still racist if people are excluded from the conversation because of the colour of their skin, if they have to stand in the back of the protest because of the colour of their skin (or sit in the back of the bus, remember Rosa?)...and that is not just my opinion that is just a fact according to what racism factually is.
rando loves using black people as props for his racist arguments.. first george floyd and the neck metaphor (disgusting), then terry crews (appropriation), and now rosa parks (misguided). this hole keeps getting deeper and deeper.. even jxlax can’t save you.
You have committed and are committing cultural genocide..you came in and fucked it all up with your sneakers, disgusting
McDonalds "food", coffee in paper cups with straws, your Hollywood blockbusters, pop music and your fear mongering against our superior social democracy.
per your own definition, you are being a racist in your ranting about americans. all logic is out the window at this point
How is the describing of the cultural genocide that America commits all over the world racist? It is the erasure of other cultures that could be considered racist. You clearly are way out of your depth on this one...just attaching a dumpster fire image to your post is like a self-fulfilling prophecy, if there's any dumpster on fire here it is the one in your own backyard, filled with your own garbage, take a look around you or open a newspaper, really hope it won't spread though and can be contained.
The US has been operating like a global empire, so the whole globe has a say in our affairs.
"rando loves using black people as props for his racist arguments.. first george floyd and the neck metaphor (disgusting), then terry crews (appropriation), and now rosa parks (misguided). this hole keeps getting deeper and deeper.. even jxlax can’t save you."
No square, I don't use Black people as props, I pity the fool who'd think that!
The neck metaphor was a rather sick joke (too soon too much truth) to hold up a mirror to some of the people on here and how they hypocritically and cowardly go after one single (and Black, oh the irony) person all at once. When they would probably cross to the other side, clutch their sphincter and avoid eye-contact when meeting in real life.
Am I not allowed to copy-paste a tweet by a famous Black guy that preaches unity? In that case you are the racist, being against said unity and all, disgusting! White people appropriating parts and elements of other cultures, preferably Black obviously 'cause they cool, IS White culture, so now what? Are you forbidding White culture? That's racist!
And the Rosa Parks remark is just an effective and simple comparison to show how ridiculous some people now are acting, by proposing segregationist measures during anti-racism protests! Totally bonkers and may I add racist!
Can't wait to read your next flacid attempts at a comeback...
Pumped up masculinity hiding behind the incidental conditions of one's birth to discredit others. You do project, do you not?
Now you're just grasping at straws...
Oh come, now. Don't you have some incidental factoid to render my argument moot? Some statement to DESTROY my supposition? Care to again take aim at my assumed lack of erectile legitimacy? My assumed lack of melanin which makes my opinions invalid?
Positive Masculinity is the solution to most of the nations problems. Uncontrolled masculinity is the root of many problems we face.
At face value, you just said something I agree with.
Sorry, that's not how I roll. I prefer to simply use facts to support my opinions, I can highly recommend it!
Facts are tricky things, especially if you refuse to dig into the history behind them. A factual taking of a life may or may not be murder. You tend to avoid digging deep enough for your "facts" to prove anything for anyone outside of what you and what you already believe.
Apparently I'm digging all the time, or so I'm told. And I'm totally open to having my beliefs shaken, even welcome it, as I'm not an extremist on any end of the political horseshoe...
No square, I don't use Black people as props, I pity the fool who'd think that!
Literally using a black person, and their quote, as a prop. Dutch are literally so good at racism, they show they have little awareness when they practice it.
"Literally using a black person, and their quote, as a prop."
Wow, did that morning coffee still not sink in or is that the vodka talking...my God, your mother must have been so proud, she probably looks at her coat hangers and sees missed opportunities. That was clearly a joke b2dine[racist] and not a prop but a tribute, have to say I pity you now as it went clearly over your head...
"Dutch are literally so good at racism, they show they have little awareness when they practice it."
That is a racist assumption dear b3tadine[racist]. Even if I were a racist, which I'm not, it is racist to project such personal traits onto an entire population of people from all sorts of backgrounds, religions, country of origin, skin colours, etc. etc. I sure pity you now, you racist fool.
i know you are but what am i?
irrelevant(!)
i know you are but what am i?
It is pretty amusing that a group of people who all support getting rid of borders and police immediately create patrolled borders and armed police.
Those borders are there to keep people inside, you'll see...just like the Iron Curtain was really erected to prevent the occupied people in Eastern Europe from escaping Communism.
Well, when people realize that they have to put down the hackysack and work...and then they realize that no one gets paid in communism...they will flee in mass. It would be funny if we repatriated them and made them take an oath to be a citizen again
those borders are to prevent police brutality and white nationalists running people over
It's nice that you have made your own little autonomous zone of archinect where you can discuss these things with like-minded people without injecting them in every other thread. Though, much like Seattle's Police Department, I'm going to check out and let it run its course. You've all strayed too much from reality for me. See you on the other side.
Haha. No. Debate is welcome and encouraged. It’s been mostly ad hominem fallacies though. That’s boring. I can’t help the fact that the counterpoints made were mostly weak.
Supporting a police department abandoning a section of a major US city while a mob self patrols it and people who think that's a bad idea are the ones who have stayed too far from reality. Dang, grasp those straws to keep your ideology safe I guess.
Supporting a police department abandoning a section of a major US city while a mob self patrols it and people who think that's a bad idea are the ones who have stayed too far from reality.
who said this on the thread? is anyone explicitly defending it? you fools are arguing with a wall at this point
We aren’t arguing against it either, just pointing out the hypocrisy. I’m not necessarily opposed to the idea of autonomous zones, so long as their acceptable across the spectrum, even in their most grotesque manifestation. We can’t approve certain tactics for certain causes and then disapprove the same tactics for different causes. That’s dangerous territory, and can end badly if a truly dangerous group with a more dangerous objective follows suit and is allowed to by a political leader that’s sympathetic to that dangerous objective or the political alignment that it follows.
Overall, what I’m saying is that this is opening up Pandora’s box. They may be a bunch of harmless hippies, but don’t you see the danger in the example that this sets?
a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds
That doesn’t make any sense. Consistency is the basis of equality and justice, because it removes subjectivity. Subjectivity is power, and power corrupts always.
adjectives really aren't your thing, are they?
I’m just hoping that we use logic once in a while. I know your hearts are big, and that’s good, but it’s usually not productive. The key imo is to have logic and heart.
As for the Atlanta shooting, I think I was wrong. I did my best to imagine myself in the cops position, and I can’t imagine ever firing my gun at a fleeing drunk guy. I think it was definitely more than an accident or bad training.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/one-dead-one-critical-in-early-morning-shooting-at-capitol-hill-protest-zone/%3famp=1
This won’t end well.
As opposed as to how well it ends when the cops are involved?
sneaky, you're such a White Bitch, it's unfathomable how deep your hate for society is. Yes, if you're being arrested you could plead the fifth and sort it out later or you know steal a tazer, run away, shoot at cop and then get shot at....the part of that story that is not fair is why the cops allowed it in the first place...I once congratulated a cop on arresting me for being white...so you get me point.
SneakyPete, I don’t understand what you are saying. Do you think it’s ok that the shooter gets away? That the people hurt don’t get medical aid because protesters wouldn’t let them in? I don’t understand.
“Seattle police in a post Saturday on its blotter said officers attempted to respond to a report of shots fired inside the protest zone, but the officers “were met by a violent crowd that prevented officers safe access to the victims.” - per above article
White guilt is retarded btw.
i assume it was one of the far right white supremacist groups? if this going to continue the BLM group and fire department and ambulances will have to learn to work better together. it's the police they don't want in, because the police are gassing them and killing them. they asked the fire department for help.
ancient, i watched the movie "just mercy" this weekend. i recommend it. i was accused of dui once. my lawyer got the prosecutor to throw the charges out. no trial or anything. the guy in atlanta would not have had the same experience as me. none of it would have been the same, not the 40 minute inquisition, not the taser, seriously, none of it. the guy in atlanta does not have the same fifth amendment protections you and i have.
So sneaky you think random armed vigilantes have better outcomes than a trained police force? Lol.
Curtkram too. Let me rephrase, a trained police force with body cams, Badge numbers, movement tracking and accountability vs a anonymous gun toting vigilante only accountable to a mobs mood. I mean its hilarious. A group wanting to defund police immediately recognize the need for police and institute their own hashed policing force. And that ends better?
a badly trained police force who routinely ignore their training and also go to training to learn how to be "warriors" with body cams they routinely turn off or "forget" to turn on, Badge numbers which they refuse to display at times, movement tracking which is unavailable to anyone who matters, and accountability which is resisted at every turn by police unions...
Even if that was all true, a phantom gun wielding random is better?
You do realize that the term 'defund the police' is just a catchy way to say: Restructuring the roll police play so they serve to only handle crime. Removing the militarization of the entire police force. Then reallocating or redirecting funding away from the police department to other agencies to handle SWAT type situations, and the social service and mental health calls the police currently are having to respond to with no or limited training.
even if all of those instances drawn from reality (things that happened) are true (they are), isn't this imaginary thing I am creating to scare you worse?
Who where you responding to Sneaky?
archi_dude
"Even if that was all true, a phantom gun wielding random is better?"
Even wilder? What the great Angela Davis is speaking on, like defunding the popo, her ideas are hard to swallow when first stated, but logical in the thinking.
Chad, SP, All, I highly encourage you to watch the podcast below in it’s entirety. It’s 3 hours long, and worth every second. The best conversation I’ve heard about the recent issues in the country.
Curt, why do you assume that? It’s possible, but why do you assume that? The idea that only the Right is capable of violence is completely removed from reality. That’s not to say that they don’t, and can’t, but to assume that all violence is tied to right wing extremists when that is in fact a small small amount of violent acts attributable to that...
Most violence is attributed to crime, not ideology.
Ideological violence is scarier, I agree, but not nearly as common.
Any takeaways, don't have 3hrs...
please define crime without using the United States Criminal Code or any specific State Criminal Code so we can better understand what you think it is. Perhaps we merely misunderstand what you mean because you're trapped within the language you seek to explain.
Rando, about the political stuff....we are seeing a total rejection or the enlightenment which is the basis of western civilization. That’s the main point id say. The second half is all science
https://www.policeone.com/george-floyd-protest/articles/another-shooting-in-seattle-autonomous-zone-leaves-1-wounded-t6d3VQQYuoGEHY3R/
Another shooting in CHOP....
SP. you don’t believe in crime? I’m not sure what you are saying
Crime is violating another’s life, body, or property. It’s quite simple.
you guys all went south of libertarian within the course of a month! Yay!
please define violating as you used it
two shootings in a city over a week. sounds like a city.
In CHOP. Not a city, a small usually low crime pocket of a city.
X-Jla, it's not even worth it. You are arguing with people who are supporting a cause to make police more accountable even if that ironicallg means getting rid of them entirely and having completely unaccountable ransoms carrying a gun in a few city blocks. Not even worth it to engage. They far surpassed you on the libertarian scale, also ironic since they always make fun of you for it.
You know what's balls to the walls nuts? It's this idea that CHOP was going to solve crime in three weeks, and cops haven't done it in 2000 plus years. That's what's fucked in your idiocracy.
archi-dude, I agree.
You know what’s ball to the wall nuts? That 104 people were shot, 14 killed, in 1 US city, on Father’s Day weekend, but no one cares because the perpetrators race can’t be used to help reinforce a certain political narrative. That’s nuts.
i thought this was about CHOP?
It is. And the the premise of chop, that cops are the greatest and only threat to the community, is false.
Just seems like many people out there are projecting. A crisis of self criticism and self actualization.
archi_dude - no one is calling for getting rid of the police. Read my comment about what 'defund police' actually means.
Chad, that’s such irony. The left has been historically about increasing funding to better something. Bernie called for paying police better and having better training and vetting process. The libertarian perspective was always to defund and ‘starve the beast’ of government. This flip is all so ironic and interesting. There is also this flip in calling for gun ownership and self protection of community. That’s very libertarian too. It’s sort of like that kid that just discovered metal and went overboard with the black eye liner. Ok though, it’s a start.
I think defund government all together. At the same time, make income taxes inversely proportionate to the average income of the zip. Watch equality of services and opportunity become evenly diffuse.
Incentive to move Companies to lower income areas.
If libertarians didn't stop the sentence after "Defund the government..." they may have something worth hearing.
Chad, I know what defunding the police is about. Yes it totally makes sense to take the money used to fund what looked like a tank that pulled up next to me with "Sheriff" on it and send to having more mental health services so you dont send that tank squad to a call about a homeless person ranting. This conversation was about CHOP. Where literally cops cant come investigate a shooting because a mob has things under control. Take your own advice and read the comments.
Over 400k rape kits languish in storage rooms all over the US, you want kkkops to do something; solve those crimes. If not, then kkkops can go eat a djick.
"djick"? is that dutch?
no it's just sexist, talking about rape kits in the same response as telling police officers (male/female) to eat a dick...that's like rallying against racism and telling the white folks that support your cause to go stand in the back.
Are black cops in the kkkops?
kkkops supporting systems of white hegemony/supremacy are problematic. I think many want the system to be different. But, when black Americans make up 13% of the population, and the numbers of black cops struggle to hit that mark, and fewer are high ranking, it's hard for me to believe that they would feel supported taking stands against kkkops. Their own safety is at risk.
As for randomly opinionated, he's about as dumb as they get. Racism is a white people problem, it's not a black people problem, white people need to solve their problems. Of course this dummy doesn't get that and your know he doesn't because he uses terms like "reverse racism" as if that is a real thing to be solved. Crawl back into your hole, muppet.
That’s absolutely ridiculous and false. Racism exists in every single culture and race. Ask a Pygmy
And yes, in the US there are racist black people.
Your basing this on a false idea that only 1 grand power dynamic exists. There are many microcosms within that that you fail to acknowledge. I’ve seen black kids beating the fucking shit out of Asian minorities back in the day. For no reason other than that they are Asian. This was a daily thing.
Same with hate crimes against Jews. In NY like almost all the perpetrators are black. This is just a fake narrative b3, and it doesn’t help to solve the problems of racism by exempting everyone from their ignorance.
Racism is a majority vs minority problem. This can be true of a Jew in a majority black neighborhood, or a black in a primarily Jewish neighborhood. The overall US is mostly white, but people don’t experience the overall US, they experience life from their own microcosm within that larger structure.
As for the cop comment. That’s not true. Many black neighborhoods have majority black politicians, police chief’s, and cops.
The idea that racism is so prevalent is also false. Racism is not currently a huge problem. The effects of past racism are.
"As for randomly opinionated, he's about as dumb as they get. Racism is a white people problem, it's not a black people problem, white people need to solve their problems. Of course this dummy doesn't get that and your know he doesn't because he uses terms like "reverse racism" as if that is a real thing to be solved. Crawl back into your hole, muppet."
As dumb as they get and yet still smarter than you b3ta...racism is a people problem, if you think otherwise that only proves that you're the racist. Remember the LA riots in the 90s you genius, and what happened in Koreatown? With your "racism is a white people problem"...that's just fucking racist!
Last comment, didn’t mean that racism no longer exists, just that it’s not on the books like it was. It’s not explicitly codified. We are dealing more with latent effects of the past. That’s actually a harder problem to solve I’d argue.
What's wild is that you, and the clujsterfjuck from Holland, read what I wrote and ascribed that only white people can be racist. I know reading isn't the first thing they teach dutch children - secret: it's how to squeeze your feet into those wooden shoes - but what I wrote was, "Racism is a white people problem, it's not a black people problem, white people need to solve their problems." And that there is me, quoting moi. As for codified? I don't care about codified, I care about reality;
https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-modern-day-redlining-20180215-story.html
And you two numbnuts pointing out instances of violence perpetrated by black people, and citing that as a problem, is so deeply racist that you two might want to get a room and jerk each other off.
Or, watch each other get off via zoom, you know; COVID-19 and shit.
Did I say that you wrote that only white people can be racist? You are white and clearly a racist but that doesn't mean racism is slegs vir blankes. Exposing you b3ta for the racist that you are so passionately has turned into one of my favourite hobbies tbh, just love seeing you go all off-script and losing your shit when confronted with that inconvenient truth. Now I would tell you to go fuck yourself but I'm afraid that's already way over your head. XOXO
Listen muppet get back to clogging and racism. You're out of your league. Only you think I'm racist.
How is pointing out instances of racism racist? I’m super confused. What you really mean is that criticism of black people is racist because we should hold white people to a higher standard...that’s some racist shit bro.
If everyone is capable of racism then why is racism a white peoples problem only? Seems like a Human problem.
Rabidly Opinionated, look sister, i stopped being wound up by you after your racist comment about me practicing "reverse racism" that idiotic trope outed you as the dumbest peanut in the bowl. I may have issues, but you "trying" to troll me, ain't one of them. Reverse racism ain't a thing, and your klantastic suggestion that I'm virtue signaling just demonstrates how far your head is up your ass. I've been talking this for years. Years. I even put my money where my mouth is, and talk this same thing on the podcast. So, muppet, back to the windmills. Isn't it like 12:00 am where you are? Who is owning whom, maga Dutch.
Honestly almost everything beta says is racist, sexist or some other form of hate speech. It's just pointed at a majority so its apparently okay? Insane to me that they are a moderator. Theres usually a pretty moderately phrased opinion that runs counter to Beta's views and then they spew pure hate and stereotypes to try and shut that person down with character assination.
Oh poor racist b3ta, you try so hard to be accepted by Black people, you appropriate their cool lingo, you slave for them for free, you adopt their causes and bend the knee and attack anyone that tries to hold a mirror to your face to show how ridiculous you're acting. All the blackface in the world could not cover your pale sorry ass, you think you're as relevant as Ice-T but you're just Vanilla Ice...
Listen Piper b3ta, you are still so wound up by me seeing through your racism, your hatespeech is so transparent I'm surprised not more people dare to confront you on here, you're a bully a racist and a moderator(!), how's that even work?. You're so wound up I can see that vein pulsating next to your left eye from all the way over here. You've been talking like what for years, like a racist virtue signalling? Poor you. You put your money where your mouth is, what a waste 'cause all the money in the world can't change the racist imprint of your screwed up brain...all that cognitive dissonance that makes you lash out to anyone calling you out with simple proof. You're like a Pinocchio, always wanted to be a real homie, but you never will, you're just a sock puppet Piper Perri and always will be.
okay troglodyte. get back to your daily chore of fucking yourself. muppet.
archi_dude sez ffgfgegrnvrioernregirgnr....dur.
No b3ta I won’t get off your lawn...
you appropriate their cool lingo, you slave for them for free, you adopt their causes and bend the knee
rando, you've hit new low. i find it fun to banter with xlax, but your use of racist language and tropes isn't smart or funny, it's disgusting, and further evidence that you are in way over your head.
You left out the most important bits though...
As a moderate myself, this really is spot-on:
moderate.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pRCzZp1J0v0
This is a great conversation with Bret Weinstein on JRE.
Makes me think that the solution to lack of opportunity in poor communities can be solved by having tax zones that are parametric to income of the area. For example, a district in East St. Louis May have a zero income tax zone to attract businesses, whereas BelAir would have a higher income tax....this may help average out opportunity across geographic areas. Tax would increase or decrease proportionally to income (generated in said area). The architecture would follow. Thoughts?
Just to clarify before you turn it off 5 mins in....Bret is an evolutionary biologist, and a self described Left wing progressive. Watch!
Joe Fucking Rogan. How the fuck did we come to this?
I mean the only time I want to hear from Rogan, is when he's talking about jiu-jitsu. That's it. Fucking douchecanoe.
Attack the messenger to have an excuse not to listen to what they have to say! It's only 3 hours...what a cop out!
ok, sparky.
Sure SneakyPilgarlic, but I still want to listen to it though, just don't have the time as it's 00:15 over here. I definitely want to know about the key takeaways and don't attack the messenger at all, so no cop out from my end, what's your excuse...
*rereads thread full of messengers rando constantly attacks*
i get that this guys is saying this whole protesting and #chop is difficult and it's unlikely we will be able to fix it because there is no leadership in washington? didn't get through the whole three hours yet.
also, joe rogan thinks cops should not have killed rayshard brooks in atlanta.
The last half is all about covid and evolutionary Biology and it’s terrifying.
Rogan is very left, just not looney left. Not sure what you are talking about SP. He has had everyone from Bernie Sanders to To obscure scientists on his show...
rando, listen mate. It’s worth the 3 hours. The last hour is about lab mice lol. It’s the most interesting and frightening part imo.
based on the 4 thumbs down (shame that's all I got) there are literally only half dozen architects (well, one landscaper) on this thread. all males. all white...and don't put Rogan into your youtube algorithm, before you know it you'll be in conspiracy central. he also is slightly annoying after 20 minutes...only episode I made it through was with Roger Penrose (Rogan basically said nothing the whole time)
"*rereads thread full of messengers rando constantly attacks*"
I simply return the favour, those that can't stand the heat should stay out of the kitchen. You called me an asshole out of the blue SneakAttack, when I was in the middle of a civilised discussion with square, so yeah, maybe take a good look in the mirror first...
I didn't claim to not attack the messenger (although I rarely do), that was you. You did.
"I definitely ... don't attack the messenger at all, so no cop out from my end, what's your excuse...
The lady doth protest too much methinks.
I was talking about that video of Rogan you genius...with your Sneaky cuttin' 'n pastin'...people flying off the handle simply because it's Joe Rogan, but whatever...
Nothing inside the ellipses changes the statement you made claiming to not attack the messenger. Simply because you only INTENDED it to mean Joe Rogan doesn't make it fully ironic coming from you, a person who routinely attacks the messenger, insults them, declares victory prematurely, then gets frustrated when others take exception to your generalizations.
I don't attack the messenger, I simply expose hypocrites for all to see that claim to be against racism but are actually supporting or engaging in racist anti-racism tactics. I only "insult" in retaliation, as a comeback from hecklers, and can't help it that I'm just very good at it. I'm not frustrated at all, lighten up!
Narrator: He really wasn't very good at it.
Ah, the voices in your head acting up again? Don't worry, I'm not after your lucky charms...
Narrator: He was actually rather terrible at it.
.
Columbus Ohio is now Flavortown because Christopher Columbus is bad and Guy Fieri is good even though he has a soul patch? I’m confused. I thought soul patches were a sign of evil. Please come now aliens. We need you more than ever. You can probe me. I won’t even resist.
JLA, speaking of Fieri... remember this gem?
context
I’m honored.
Ha ha. This chop bs is just the beginning. Statues coming down and all...and my statement that I’ve repeatedly made, that the left doesn’t know how far is too far...now they want to remove a statue of Teddy Roosevelt? Lol. These clowns. So is Robin Williams role in Night at the Museum canceled now?
The Authoritarian left, posing as a grassroots ‘anarchist’ movement, is trying, and will fail miserably, to spark a Marxist style ‘cultural revolution’. It’s only real effect will be to ensure Trump the win.
And maybe get some Hollywood actors to make another stupid video about how good they are.
have you seen the teddy statue? it's pretty.. bad. white man being triumphantly led by a subjugated native american and african person. they also had a great display on the question to remove the statue (it's been on display over a year), which was curated by the museum and featured well thought out opinions from each side, unlike yours. this decision was carefully and deliberately made by the museum, not some imaginary mob. again, cherry picking pieces of the news that best support your opinion, when the reality is, at least for the museum, much more complicated.
https://www.amnh.org/exhibitio...
History is bad. Let’s remove Rome, Tikal, Giza, the Alhambra. Why not? Why stop at 1492? Let’s go way back. Let’s replace them with McDonald’s and Starbucks billboards
Stop isolating it like “it was going to be removed anyway”. This is a nationwide trend and you know it.
"use bombastic troll-like over simplification when your point has been proven wrong"
the statue was commissioned well after the museum was built, in a different century no less. it's not "history"
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.jsonline.com/amp/3249239001
different statue, different scenario, different circumstances. i'm not defending people ripping down a statue in madison, but you attempted to equate this situation with the one at the natural history museum in nyc. again, over simplification.
these assholes are definitely bottom of the class history students.
thumbs down for the museum facilitating a debate about the nature of the statue? i thought it was well done and informing, reading opinions from opposing sides. clearly something you're not interested in; so much for "free thought."
you would benefit from spending some time with this:
https://www.amnh.org/exhibitio...
Thumbs down because you are pretending that this isn’t connected to the larger trend of removing statues. I understand removing confederate statues. But like I’ve said before. The left require a perfect alignment with its orthodoxy. Nothing in history perfectly aligned with this, Therefore everything in history is a potential target of its cleansing. The ww2 memorial was even vandalized...you know that time when brave 18yo kids actually fought and defeated real nazis.
The sheer fact that all statues are being targeted without any context or understanding of who these statues are is just proof of my point that the goal is power for the sake of power. Museums, industry, etc are just caving to mob pressure to self cleanse or be canceled. Suck my ass is what I would say, but these people are concerned with their pockets staying full so they comprise their nuanced understanding of the historical context, the artists intent, for a shallow reading by 19yo college dropouts and fry cooks.
I read it square. Just further reinforced my point.
but.. but.. that exhibition was all about context? the statue wasn't even an original part of the building, but added later? are things never allowed to be modified or changed based on new circumstances or understanding of history, something that is inherently always evolving? maybe realizing a statue that was added later, post rationalized if you will, wasn't in the interest of the museum?
so confused. i tried.
“The Native American is a composite of many tribes. The figure is an allegory standing for a continent, similar to the way many public statues of nude women represent virtues or vices.” Exactly. And understanding a statue is about the artist’s intention as much as it is about the actual historical context of the times. Art is not meant to be read by angry mobs, it’s meant to be contemplated by thoughtful individuals.
You realize x-jla that all those statues of confederate soldiers and such where put up by a group called 'The Daughters of the Confederacy' who had a stated goal "to remind the negro of his place within the white man's world" and "to maintain positive image of the confederate so we may rise again" - The statues where put up by racists to promote racist ideologies. Through their political influence The Daughters of the Confederacy even got into our public education system and had major textbook publishers rewrite material to put a positive spin on slavery and promote that the Civil War was about individual freedoms and not the slave trade that was the backbone of the confederacies economy.
no, it's history chad. once you put a statue up you can't ever change it because it was a thing that was made at one point so it's history.
This is pc cancel culture influencing cultural institutions, art, speech, and public spaces. This is an abandonment of intellectual debate because of political pressure and fear of monetary repercussions. This is the antithesis of how an authority on history, art, science, etc should operate. It’s tantamount libraries dumping books because of the pressure from pearl clutching book burners. This is exactly the same.
even though the daughters of confederacy decided to cancel the emancipation proclamation and the results of the civil war, aka history, by building their suppressive statues. exactly the same.
Chad, I do. I also said that is a different scenario if you read my comments above. The problem is, that the leftist doctrine that is the force behind this all doesn’t draw the line there, or anywhere really. It’s goal is not to remove statues. It’s goal is to get its tentacles into everything so that it can destroy dissent with its limited power. This is exactly how ‘cultural revolutions’ start. We are in the useful idiot phase.
Don’t be fooled. This is being instigated by foreign actors, Russian and CCP, that seek to weaken the foundation of the country. We have proof of this from last time around. We are being duped. It’s important, as students of art and architecture and history, to be on the frontline of this debate.
we are, you have some catching up to do:
'As students of architectural history, we have been taught to look as objectively as possible at historic events, and to place them in context. When contextualized properly, symbols of oppression and societal evil can be understood in terms of what these objects meant to their creators as separate from what they might mean to us. Removing monuments that have stood for decades is decried by some as “erasing history,” but we cannot change the events of the past. What changes is our understanding and our interpretation of these past events.'
https://archinect.com/news/article/150203451/society-of-architectural-historians-supports-and-encourages-the-removal-of-confederate-monuments-from-public-spaces
I don’t blame the curators. They made very good points in the reading. The problem is that the political pressure surrounding these public institutions is always going to crush any intelligence. THIS is why PRIVATE PROPERTY is necessary to ensure free speech!
Ok square, so can we remove the Giza pyramids, or did the Egyptians have sufficient melanin levels? It’s a serious question. The northern Africans are literally still engaged in slavery. Why are we tolerating these monuments to empire built on the back of slaves? Is it time? Is is race? What’s the cut off point of not caring?
Context
Can we worry about Amerikkka First? Before we continue our reprehensible charade of policing the world? Or does that go against Ayn Rand?
That’s very nationalist of you.
agreed beta, but just to educate xlax.. most historians think the "pyramids were built by slaves" idea is a myth. at best it's murky. what we do know, however, is this country had an embarrassing, oppressive, and destructive system of slavery that is well documented, and it does not need to be memorialized.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jan/11/great-pyramid-tombs-slaves-egypt
https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/africa/1333946/global-slavery-index-africa-has-the-highest-rate-of-modern-day-slavery-in-the-world/amp/
I don’t really think morality has borders. We are talking about monuments, and the biggest, that was built by slavery to the ego of a tyrant, is sitting in the middle of a huge modern day slave market.
Your idea of "nationalist" is dog shit wrapped with djick cheese. Socialists are not concerned with theocratic governments in other countries, let the people in those countries figure it out for themselves. We have enough problems here, in Amerikkka. You might want to check on Ayn Randy's grave, because I think she just died a little.
I don’t care about Ayn Rand. She was a greedy fuck. I’m more of an open border globalist libertarian who dreams of gay gun toting tiger wrestlers ending authoritarianism in all forms in all places.
Including the US.
We can’t focus so narrowly on certain types of crimes by certain types or perpetrators or we lose the goal or making life better and freer for more people
It’s like only caring about the rona and sitting home all day eating Doritos and smoking crack. We need a holistic revolution.
Square, yeah they were more like serfs probably. Stop dodging the point.
So, you're an interventionista?
The gay tiger wrestler is a metaphor. Militarily no. Spreading liberal ideals yes. Calling out foreign tyranny yes. Not supporting foreign tyranny economically, yes.
Removing Monuments, not exactly. I prefer history to be on full display so that we understand it and don’t repeat it. Adding context to that history would be a better thing. Maybe a giant fountain statue of ODB pissing on the confederate soldier with a Wu-tang shaped catch basin?
good to know you'll be first in line for any forthcoming hitler monuments
Hitler died 75 years ago, which is more or less the same amount of time that passed between the Civil War and the construction of Confederate statues. Let's do it!
There is a big difference between the creation of a statue and the removal of a statue. If it was created, the context that accepted it is just as much a part of the story. It’s funny how architects of all people can’t understand this. Next time you’re in Rome, think about it.
Accepted in the physical sense
You think this is only about confederate statues, because you’re either tuned out, or lying, it’s about more than that, and the proof is in the fact that other sites and statues are the target of attack, including an abolitionist poet, Lincoln, Columbus (500 years ago) about as logical as ripping down a statue of Nero if we want to play time table
Why isn’t anyone going after the Lenin statue in Seattle? His evil philosophy killed 100s of million people!
I want it torn down ASAP.
Stalin did the killing
nice whataboutism ... really going back to the soviet propaganda roots. But really? Try harder ...
While Lenin in Fremont is ironic, Confederate statues are anything but - Seattle Times (opinion).
Fuck that bullshit (opinion)
The confederate statues are not my issue. I’ve said this numerous times. My issue is a cowardice on the left the draw the line at that. The left doesn’t know when it goes too far, or at least isn’t willing to define “too far”. This is a point I’ve made several times before this debacle.
"The left-wing mob is trying to demolish our heritage so they can replace it with a new, oppressive regime that they alone control...They're tearing down statues, desecrating monuments and purging dissenters. It's not the behavior of a peaceful political movement, it's the behavior of totalitarians"
new game: who said it, xjlax or trump?
Because strategically they don’t want to, and it’s not about the confederate statues. It’s about power. It’s about removing one authority to replace it with their version of authority. Last point I’ll
make.
square, I said this way way way back. Wayyyy before trump. Truth is, it’s now a reality and even he has caught on. Not that he’s any better. Go to the libertarian thread where I accurately
called out this on college campuses spilling onto the streets.
square, that's a tough one, can i get a hint?
I predicted this years ago. The rise of cultural Marxism has been a theme of mine for years. It’s more sneaky than the more bombastic rise of nationalism and fascism, but fuck those shitty philosophical movements too.
"Conflating these two statues is an exercise in cognitive dissonance, which dilutes the national conversation. Instead of acquiescing to those who mistakenly point to the Soviet statue as a double-standard, we must remain steadfast in focusing on America, first."
Boris Krichevsky
square. i think that's Tucker Carlson, who i worship RELIGIOUSLY!!!! and it's absolutely true.
Ha. Interesting how “America, first” is his last line
Secretly all socialists are nationalists. True story
(I'm going to let you in on a secret, being a nationalist, not an ethno-nationalist, is actually not a terrible idea.)
"Does the future belong to egalitarian cultural pluralism, in which sharp group distinctions remain yet ethnic hierarchy somehow melts away? Or should we pursue a melting-pot nationalism, in which bright boundaries between groups blur over time, and civic equality and national unity prove mutually reinforcing? I’ve come to believe that the latter ideal is ultimately the more realistic and fruitful. But I’m keenly aware that the clash between these two visions won’t be resolved anytime soon."
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/why-nationalism-better-cultural-pluralism/575458/
Borders?
Hmm so beta is now republican.sweet
https://www.the-american-interest.com/2020/02/27/the-case-for-liberal-nationalism/
This is important particularly when we are juxtaposing it with the illiberal nationalism of Hungary or Poland—or indeed of the American alt-right ideologues who promoted Donald Trump. These “liberal democratic principles” can be broadly defined as
you say "i was trump before trump" like it's a good thing
two points on marx:
1) cultural marxism is an anti-semitic trope used by the far right- i would do a little more digging into the history of the term before you keep slinging it around:
The conspiracy theorists claim that these “cultural Marxists” began to use insidious forms of psychological manipulation to upend the west. Then, when Nazism forced the (mostly Jewish) members of the Frankfurt School to move to America, they had, the story goes, a chance to undermine the culture and values that had sustained the world’s most powerful capitalist nation.
https://www.theguardian.com/co...
2) marx had some great ideas (of course along with some not great ones). i suggest you read capital, it has some analysis you might like. but you won't because your binary brain only sees black and white, i.e. marx = bad.
The application of Marxism requires authoritarianism. It’s a foolish philosophy. “Cultural Marxism” is not an anti Semitic trope. That’s absolutely ridiculous. It’s exactly what preceded in Venezuela, China, etc. you are trying to use the old, criticism = racism trick. It’s completely silly to make that leap. Yes, some Jews who settled in ny mostly were Marxist’s, and the that was used to discriminate, but that has nothing to do with criticism of the philosophy itself. Italians were associated with anarchy in the early 1900’s, and it was part of the basis of discrimination as well. Does that mean that we can’t criticize anarchy?
AND, stop trying to associate ME with trump. You have more in common with trump than I. Just because 2 different people dislike the same thing, that doesn’t mean their philosophies Align. You are again trying to attack character and intent rather than contend with the points being made.
i'm not saying you shouldn't criticize the philosophy of marx, but that the specific term "cultural marxism" has antisemitic roots, which is why the far right loves to use it. do what you wish with the article i posted. here's some more literature:
https://www.splcenter.org/figh...
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/1...
https://reason.com/2018/10/14/...
^this from the same source (reason, a "free market" magazine) you posted below:
The cultural Marxism conspiracy cultist who made the most hideous public impact was Anders Breivik, who murdered 77 people in Norway in 2011. Breivik wrote in his 1,500-page manifesto that "you cannot defeat Islamization or halt/reverse the Islamic colonization of Western Europe without first removing the political doctrines manifested through multiculturalism/cultural Marxism."
serious question- have you actually read any marx?
i'm clearly not dodging and directly engaging in your use of antisemitic terminology- it is you who continues to feign ignorance while using it, but your choice to associate with the likes of breivik.
I guess you associate with the likes of Stalin and Kim Jung Un then if we are playing that game. Lol. I read Marx back in college. It’s a philosophy that goes in contrast to human nature and thus requires enormous amounts of imposing controls at the hands of authoritarians.
Cultural Marxism is not a conspiracy theory. You lefties have 2 convenient tools. 1. Call it racist and discredit the source. 2. Call it a conspiracy theory and undermine the idea entirely.
i'm able to disassociate the philosophy from those that might skew it or misuse it.
The rise of cultural Marxism has been a theme of mine for years.
did you read the article? having read it, i understand your political philosophy much better. anyone who wants to see jxlax's true colors should also read it:
https://reason.com/2018/10/14/...
not going to allow you to dodge the point that you believe in and continue to use an antisemitic term also used by buchanan, breitbart, hannity and breivik.
Haha. The funny not so funny part is that leftism, when activated fully, goes against liberalism. True story. I think most liberals believe that leftists are more woke liberals. They are not. They are a totally different animal. I’m a liberal in the classical sense, not a leftist.
the author of the reason article wrote a book about ron paul, and even he understands the logical fallacy in associating marx with cultural marxism. he's what a real libertarian looks like, not a conservative masquerading as one.
https://reason.com/people/bria...
What’s the logical fallacy?
Cultural Marxism
A collectivist application of Marxist class warfare along a far broader spectrum of identities, such as race, gender, and sexuality, as opposed to solely along class lines; intersectionality.
First, Marxism only spoke to the oppression of the proletariat by the bourgeoisie, but now men oppress women, whites oppress blacks, heterosexuals oppress homosexuals, the able-bodied oppress the disabled, & cisgendered folk oppress trans folk; WHO you are is irrelevant, all that matters now is WHAT you are, which groups you are a member of, your personhood reduced to your arbitrary characteristics, to that of an object; this is Cultural Marxism.“
The twist was to begin dragging Karl Marx into it. Here's how the narrative goes: After the horrific deaths of millions, global communism may have been discredited as a viable economic system, but its proponents want to sneak it perniciously through the back door via cultural decadence. Thus, political correctness is part of a lefty long con to take over America.
You have to give the conspiratorial right credit for clever rhetorical deck-stacking, at least. How can you approve of sympathetic gay people appearing in yogurt commercials if it's all a commie plot? It may be comforting to believe your ideological foes are dupes of manipulative intellectual fiends. But declaring that advocates of multiculturalism, feminism, and gay rights are the pawns of dead Jewish communists is both mistaken as a matter of cultural history and foolish as a way to sell an alternate ideology. You won't win the day by treating people who merely disagree with you as stalking horses for socialist tyranny.
You might think that a history of cultural Marxism would start with Marx, but the poorly coiffed Prussian has almost nothing to do with this tale of insidious infiltration. Instead, the theory took off in the late 1990s due to speeches, essays, and books by William Lind, then with the Free Congress Foundation, and Patrick Buchanan, the firebrand conservative columnist, TV talking head, and sometime presidential candidate.
^per urban dictionary
your only source in this debate is urban dictionary? telling.
Intersectionality is not a prevalent theme these days?
I don’t see a conspiracy theory. It’s an observation that is entirely true. In recent decades we’ve seen a movement away from the idea that individuality is the primary mode we operate with to one that puts our identity above all else. Hence Identity politics. With this, some Marxist Economic ideals are attached in the packaging.
I don’t see a conspiracy theory. It’s an observation that is entirely true. In recent decades we’ve seen a movement away from the idea that individuality is the primary mode we operate with to one that puts our identity above all else. Hence Identity politics. With this, some Marxist Economic ideals are attached in the packaging.
square, I can find many sources, but it’s not worth my time.
your name's Bart right?
I came back to check how things were going and basically thought this same thing. Kudos tduds for winning the internet today.
x-jla - do you not have any clients that you can spend so much time here typing at people? I doubt anyone you're typing at will change their minds because of the text you spewed out.
I’m multitasking.
No such thing.
Multitasking when doing production work is very difficult, multitasking during the creative process is often when best ideas are born, in my experience.
People who claim to be good at multitasking are the worst at it, according to some studies.
I’m not good at it. I also work between 8am and 12am as I please unless I have construction going on....
Before I make my exit like Grampa Simpson I'll throw out a few definitions of some of the logical fallacies rampant in the discussion
or holier-than-thouism.. kidding. my favorite other one is ad hominem
y'all straw the man as much as anyone. so much straw they fill the pacific and choke the poor turtles on noes!
the day you do anything except stand back and throw trash into the dumpster fire from the sidelines is the day I care about anything you have to say "fab"
yes but whatabout chairman mao and the cultural revolution? seems like a slippery slope we be going down. look it's either right or wrong, right? (or wrong?) right. oh, is that a squirrel over there gotta go!
Makes getting ready for work easier, I'm all for it.
interesting perspective
https://www.google.com/amp/s/reason.com/2020/06/24/all-statues-should-be-private/%3famp
Less controversial has been the decision by the American Museum of Natural History to remove a statue of Teddy Roosevelt
from its front entrance. While the statue is officially on public land,
it clearly is intended as part of the museum and is seen as such. The museum is a private entity and is no longer comfortable with the way the statue represents the organization—a decision it has the right to make.
while i don't agree with all of it, this piece shows some good nuance- this was my original point in your equating what was happening at the natural history museum with other monuments.
Hmmm. I didn’t know that the museum was privatized.
this whole thing is a libertarian movement that thinks it’s a leftist movement. It’s soon going to come full circle.
The only thing that is full circle is how some heads are so firmly up their connected assholes that the owners can see out of their own eye sockets twice.
What is the end goal?
double vision?
Any sufficiently advanced form of lolbertarianism is indistinguishable from a leftist movement.
*bump*
Not worth it, if you make good points the thread will evaporate. Waste of time.
The other thread was destroyed like a Buddhist sculpture probably because of Rick getting a bit overexcited, not because of the good points people were making, I think.
No. The other thread got deep-sixed because people couldn't stop hurling insults at each other.
.
Awesome YT-channel by the way.
Lest an unsuspecting someone wander in here and wonder what precipitated the CHAZ/CHOP ... this did.
Have you watched Waco on Netflix? Good series, and wow did those agents fuck up. I’m just troubled by this recent abandonment of the “2 wrongs don’t make a right” Principle that we all used to learn when we were 3.
It’s completely logical to say, police are assholes and citizens are assholes without any contradictions whatsoever. Just because your rights to peaceful protest was crushed by a military style police force doesn’t give you the right to occupy a city block and create an annoyance and potential danger for residents and businesses.
That's an inference not based in anything I've written here. I was only pointing out that the protesters didn't just up and decide one day that they were going to take over the streets without any reason. Action ... reaction ... more reactions ... etc. Per your usual MO, you attempt to simplify things to a point where anything could be absurd (straw man fallacy) and this was simply pointing out that it's more complicated than you're portraying it here.