Every once in a while I'll see a big, bold, sexy window frame protruding from a wall. Typically shown in a design-oriented magazine.
Example .
Does anyone have experience in designing these? Particularly in detailing them, what is the approach? Are there specific manufacturers for this type of product, or would it require a custom build-out? And would the basic detailing intent largely consist of simply adjusting flashing to be extra-wide to accomodate, or is there fundamental connection issues that need to be addressed in water proofing that I'm not aware of?
OddArchitect
Mar 23, 20 7:12 pm
It's a custom build. Check out Life of an Architect.
Whereas a conventional approach would be 1) wall, and 2) window assembly in wall opening, the above image would be 1) wall, 2) separately designed and built frame feature, and 3) glazing assembly set within. The nice ones I've seen have the oversize frame in black steel plate; it's thick for steel, but architecturally thin at the facade scale. It can have a nice effect.
Bench
Mar 24, 20 8:40 am
Very good explanation citizen. That's one of the things I've been struggling to understand with these - the best ones seem to use a simple steel sheet/plate to bend around the exterior. But that appears too simple, I'm not sure how to drain it. I'd assume there needs to be some sort of thermal break in the connection back to the wall? And that the piece cannot act structurally on its own, so how does it stay supported?
archanonymous
Mar 24, 20 10:42 am
We fastened this plate to standard precast embeds with fiberglass shims between. The window itself is super cheap Kawneer. The precast is, well, precast.
Non Sequitur
Mar 24, 20 10:48 am
perhaps dumb question... but snow? is that a thing here?
OddArchitect
Mar 24, 20 10:48 am
How did you deal with the thermal bridging?
archanonymous
Mar 24, 20 10:55 am
Thermal bridging - Fiberglass spacers... i guess there is a bit of bridging through the fastener itself, but not of concern in this building - it is a precast sandwich panel which don't have the greatest performance anyways.
archanonymous
Mar 24, 20 10:55 am
Snow - the top of the frame is slightly sloped each way away from the center, so water drains to the sides and not back towards the sealant joint at the concrete.
archanonymous
Mar 24, 20 10:58 am
Snow is definitely an issue here too.
Bench
Mar 24, 20 10:59 am
Is it a series of plates welded together at the edges/seams? Or is it a continuous bent plate (seems unlikely...) ?
Non Sequitur
Mar 24, 20 11:04 am
Cool, thanks. We have a few welded-plate frames currently in construction. I think the shop drawings show 3mm thick steel... which is pretty thin for our spans but hey, their p.eng signed off on it.
archanonymous
Mar 24, 20 11:29 am
The photographs don't really capture the raw welds, but yes all four corners are welded. I like it better in person b/c you can see them. There's also little weep holes drilled in the aluminum plate at the bottom two inside corners so that it can drain wind-driven precipitation.
archanonymous
Mar 24, 20 11:31 am
Drainage and weeps:
OddArchitect
Mar 24, 20 11:45 am
Neat. I figured the thermal bridging was taken care of with the shims and that the top of the steel was sloped for drainage.
That or you used a lot of sealant. ;)
archanonymous
Mar 24, 20 11:51 am
Vigorously use
Caulk all over the building
Hoping for the best
Volunteer
Mar 24, 20 12:46 pm
Google 'Oriel window construction details' for a ton of info and drawings on construction.
citizen
Mar 24, 20 2:16 pm
Great thread! And thanks for posting those, archanonymous.
joseffischer
Mar 24, 20 2:35 pm
We've done the same thing using Plywood with backer rod & sealant breaks, thickness of plywood varies by protrusion and overall size of "frame" Then the whole thing is painted with your liquid applied barrier. Then you put the window where you want it, sheetrock to the window on the inside (or a wood sill or whatever) and have the window installer provide break metal around the frame matching the window. This way we don't add a new tradesman to the job. Hope that makes sense.
archanonymous
Mar 24, 20 2:53 pm
Another up-close. Arrow to the sash weep and then the small hole drilled at the back of the frame along the weld. Also some less-than-stellar sealant work on this window.
Example .Does anyone have experience in designing these? Particularly in detailing them, what is the approach? Are there specific manufacturers for this type of product, or would it require a custom build-out? And would the basic detailing intent largely consist of simply adjusting flashing to be extra-wide to accomodate, or is there fundamental connection issues that need to be addressed in water proofing that I'm not aware of?
It's a custom build. Check out Life of an Architect.
https://www.lifeofanarchitect.com/the-cabin-project-technical-drawings/
Excellent example, thanks CM!
Whereas a conventional approach would be 1) wall, and 2) window assembly in wall opening, the above image would be 1) wall, 2) separately designed and built frame feature, and 3) glazing assembly set within. The nice ones I've seen have the oversize frame in black steel plate; it's thick for steel, but architecturally thin at the facade scale. It can have a nice effect.
Very good explanation citizen. That's one of the things I've been struggling to understand with these - the best ones seem to use a simple steel sheet/plate to bend around the exterior. But that appears too simple, I'm not sure how to drain it. I'd assume there needs to be some sort of thermal break in the connection back to the wall? And that the piece cannot act structurally on its own, so how does it stay supported?
We fastened this plate to standard precast embeds with fiberglass shims between. The window itself is super cheap Kawneer. The precast is, well, precast.
perhaps dumb question... but snow? is that a thing here?
How did you deal with the thermal bridging?
Thermal bridging - Fiberglass spacers... i guess there is a bit of bridging through the fastener itself, but not of concern in this building - it is a precast sandwich panel which don't have the greatest performance anyways.
Snow - the top of the frame is slightly sloped each way away from the center, so water drains to the sides and not back towards the sealant joint at the concrete.
Snow is definitely an issue here too.
Is it a series of plates welded together at the edges/seams? Or is it a continuous bent plate (seems unlikely...) ?
Cool, thanks. We have a few welded-plate frames currently in construction. I think the shop drawings show 3mm thick steel... which is pretty thin for our spans but hey, their p.eng signed off on it.
The photographs don't really capture the raw welds, but yes all four corners are welded. I like it better in person b/c you can see them. There's also little weep holes drilled in the aluminum plate at the bottom two inside corners so that it can drain wind-driven precipitation.
Drainage and weeps:
Neat. I figured the thermal bridging was taken care of with the shims and that the top of the steel was sloped for drainage.
That or you used a lot of sealant. ;)
Vigorously use
Caulk all over the building
Hoping for the best
Google 'Oriel window construction details' for a ton of info and drawings on construction.
Great thread! And thanks for posting those, archanonymous.
We've done the same thing using Plywood with backer rod & sealant breaks, thickness of plywood varies by protrusion and overall size of "frame" Then the whole thing is painted with your liquid applied barrier. Then you put the window where you want it, sheetrock to the window on the inside (or a wood sill or whatever) and have the window installer provide break metal around the frame matching the window. This way we don't add a new tradesman to the job. Hope that makes sense.
Another up-close. Arrow to the sash weep and then the small hole drilled at the back of the frame along the weld. Also some less-than-stellar sealant work on this window.