I help a small construction company with their IT and I'm trying to help them to overcome a problem trying to estimate the material needed to do any given work based on a drawing. They need to literally measure their screen with a ruler and then convert with the scale to know the size of everything in detail and then estimate the material needed. Is there any tool that could assist with this problem? Thanks!
Non Sequitur
Mar 9, 20 11:38 am
Typical drawing general notes 101
Do not Scale Drawings
Do not Scale Drawings
When in Doubt, request clarification
Measure their screens? Really? What kind of bloody fool is that incompetent. Print the drawings full scale and learn to read and do basic math... and if the information is not there, then send an RFI to the consultants. If you scale and are incorrect, you eat the cost difference when you mess up. Or use plangrid.... but notes 1 through 3 still take precedence.
joseffischer
Mar 9, 20 11:44 am
Or be like every other contractor out there and request CAD files "for submittal purposes only" and then use them for take-offs
Non Sequitur
Mar 9, 20 11:45 am
we don't give CAD during tendering.
SneakyPete
Aug 24, 20 2:30 pm
Give 'em the cad with a massive disclaimer, that way they get the job done faster and you're ass is covered. Win-win?
Non Sequitur
Aug 24, 20 2:49 pm
Pete, I know you've commented on the older post because of the Resurrection post below, but anyways, to answer you: We don't have the time to chase every one to get them to sign our CAD waiver during tendering. We will however release some CAD to the winning GC but will never accept a shop drawing if we notice they used our file to their their work.
SneakyPete
Aug 24, 20 3:03 pm
Good point, thanks for the clarification.
alex40
Mar 9, 20 1:03 pm
These guys are estimating the material needed. They said architects keep submitting A1 drawings that they cannot print, but some are doing A3 and makes things easier. They are builders and get the drawings from residential property owners and then they need to quote for the work and the material needed. Several times the measurements are not given so they need to figure out a way of getting the right amount of stuff needed calculated from knowing the dimensions, often not included with the drawing. I guess plangrid seems to be an document repository similar to what you get with Microsoft Sharepoint but mainly targeting architects?
Non Sequitur
Mar 9, 20 1:09 pm
Thanks for confirming that they are mostly just incompetent. Getting drawings printed full scale, even at A1 size, if not difficult or expensive. If they were good at their job, they would find a way to monetize on the mistakes of the "bad drawings" they bid.
x-jla
Aug 24, 20 3:17 pm
It’s about 4$ a sheet at office max.
apklos
Mar 9, 20 1:19 pm
Have you used BlueBeam? It is quite possibly the most practical software for communication between trades. The license is inexpensive, the tutorials are quick and easy. For your purposes, there is a whole set of tools for doing take-offs and cost-estimating.
Non Sequitur
Mar 9, 20 1:30 pm
Bluebeam is a good one too. plenty of my GC's use it.
mightyaa
Mar 9, 20 3:56 pm
You can also just google the question and get better answers because we are architects; we don't do takeoffs much less specific ones like a subcontractor might want for something like the masonry package. Architects are also very hesitant to give out takeoff quantities because we can get hooked back in if we make an error; that means we kind of have this intentional ignorance. It is the contractor's job to prepare the takeoff and sign that contract to provide the materials and assembly. Too many trixie GC's have come back on the architects and said "we were to provide xx square feet of this per the architect's instruction; we need a change order for any of the architect's mistakes"... which they owner's try to rip from our wallet. So... we don't estimate or provide quantities of anything (if we're smart); thus would be horrible software advisors to do something we don't actually ever do or wish to remain blissfully ignorant about should something bounce back.
Non Sequitur
Mar 9, 20 4:10 pm
stop giving away our trade secrets
mightyaa
Mar 9, 20 6:22 pm
We are licensed professionals and not allowed to have secrets much less conspire as a profession; however being blissfully ignorant of things outside our area of expertise isn't a secret (and often the causation of mucho eye-rolling by various contractors as sort of a architect trademark). "Intentional ignorance" would be difficult to prove as I can provide a wife and children who will claim in a court of law that I am indeed an "idiot". Therefore I can wholeheartedly recommend strip clubs for professional takeoffs.
Erik Schonsett
Aug 24, 20 2:18 pm
If our drawings say DO NOT SCALE on them, how do we feel about takeoff software such as onscreen takeoff or the like that are basically ways to scale and measure the drawings to get a takeoff number for a bid? Asking because this just came up in conversation today about having the Architect provide PDF files that have the scale embedded in them so the owner can measure things i.e. cable runs for data
atelier nobody
Aug 24, 20 3:15 pm
We always say not to do it; contractors always do it anyway. Whether they do it with a triangle scale and a highlighter on a hard-copy set or use PDF tools doesn't really make much difference. That said, if the owner wants us to make it easier for them, I'd call that an additional service.
x-jla
Aug 24, 20 3:19 pm
I hatch the area and then use Area command in CAD. It’s easy and accurate. If you don’t have the dwg maybe pay the architect to provide areas?
x-jla
Aug 24, 20 3:22 pm
I’m a contractor and designer, but sometimes I provide design only. when That’s the case, I usually provide other contractors the square footages upon request. I send it as a pdf with some boilerplate language...not a big deal.
randomised
Aug 25, 20 6:32 am
just measure your screen with a scaled ruler, problem solved!
apscoradiales
Aug 26, 20 4:12 pm
"...will never accept a shop drawing if we notice they used our file to their their work..."
Same here.
Boss would sometimes send the offending company a hugely inflated invoice.
I help a small construction company with their IT and I'm trying to help them to overcome a problem trying to estimate the material needed to do any given work based on a drawing. They need to literally measure their screen with a ruler and then convert with the scale to know the size of everything in detail and then estimate the material needed. Is there any tool that could assist with this problem? Thanks!
Typical drawing general notes 101
Measure their screens? Really? What kind of bloody fool is that incompetent. Print the drawings full scale and learn to read and do basic math... and if the information is not there, then send an RFI to the consultants. If you scale and are incorrect, you eat the cost difference when you mess up. Or use plangrid.... but notes 1 through 3 still take precedence.
Or be like every other contractor out there and request CAD files "for submittal purposes only" and then use them for take-offs
we don't give CAD during tendering.
Give 'em the cad with a massive disclaimer, that way they get the job done faster and you're ass is covered. Win-win?
Pete, I know you've commented on the older post because of the Resurrection post below, but anyways, to answer you: We don't have the time to chase every one to get them to sign our CAD waiver during tendering. We will however release some CAD to the winning GC but will never accept a shop drawing if we notice they used our file to their their work.
Good point, thanks for the clarification.
These guys are estimating the material needed. They said architects keep submitting A1 drawings that they cannot print, but some are doing A3 and makes things easier. They are builders and get the drawings from residential property owners and then they need to quote for the work and the material needed. Several times the measurements are not given so they need to figure out a way of getting the right amount of stuff needed calculated from knowing the dimensions, often not included with the drawing. I guess plangrid seems to be an document repository similar to what you get with Microsoft Sharepoint but mainly targeting architects?
Thanks for confirming that they are mostly just incompetent. Getting drawings printed full scale, even at A1 size, if not difficult or expensive. If they were good at their job, they would find a way to monetize on the mistakes of the "bad drawings" they bid.
It’s about 4$ a sheet at office max.
Have you used BlueBeam? It is quite possibly the most practical software for communication between trades. The license is inexpensive, the tutorials are quick and easy. For your purposes, there is a whole set of tools for doing take-offs and cost-estimating.
Bluebeam is a good one too. plenty of my GC's use it.
You can also just google the question and get better answers because we are architects; we don't do takeoffs much less specific ones like a subcontractor might want for something like the masonry package. Architects are also very hesitant to give out takeoff quantities because we can get hooked back in if we make an error; that means we kind of have this intentional ignorance. It is the contractor's job to prepare the takeoff and sign that contract to provide the materials and assembly. Too many trixie GC's have come back on the architects and said "we were to provide xx square feet of this per the architect's instruction; we need a change order for any of the architect's mistakes"... which they owner's try to rip from our wallet. So... we don't estimate or provide quantities of anything (if we're smart); thus would be horrible software advisors to do something we don't actually ever do or wish to remain blissfully ignorant about should something bounce back.
stop giving away our trade secrets
We are licensed professionals and not allowed to have secrets much less conspire as a profession; however being blissfully ignorant of things outside our area of expertise isn't a secret (and often the causation of mucho eye-rolling by various contractors as sort of a architect trademark). "Intentional ignorance" would be difficult to prove as I can provide a wife and children who will claim in a court of law that I am indeed an "idiot". Therefore I can wholeheartedly recommend strip clubs for professional takeoffs.
If our drawings say DO NOT SCALE on them, how do we feel about takeoff software such as onscreen takeoff or the like that are basically ways to scale and measure the drawings to get a takeoff number for a bid? Asking because this just came up in conversation today about having the Architect provide PDF files that have the scale embedded in them so the owner can measure things i.e. cable runs for data
We always say not to do it; contractors always do it anyway. Whether they do it with a triangle scale and a highlighter on a hard-copy set or use PDF tools doesn't really make much difference. That said, if the owner wants us to make it easier for them, I'd call that an additional service.
I hatch the area and then use Area command in CAD. It’s easy and accurate. If you don’t have the dwg maybe pay the architect to provide areas?
I’m a contractor and designer, but sometimes I provide design only. when That’s the case, I usually provide other contractors the square footages upon request. I send it as a pdf with some boilerplate language...not a big deal.
just measure your screen with a scaled ruler, problem solved!
"...will never accept a shop drawing if we notice they used our file to their their work..."
Same here.
Boss would sometimes send the offending company a hugely inflated invoice.
They would get the point very quickly.