I've alaways had trouble approaching weird form terrains, i'm a student & i'm still learning. So, i wanna know, How to approach a irregular geometrical form terrain ?
If you know any book or article or anything that could help me learn more, please let me know.
PS : it's annoying when your own teacher can't teach you what you want to learn nor help you in that. & it's more annoying when you guys in archinect try to rub salt in the wounds. so please reply to the question. if you don't want to, don't do it. if you can help. help. “No one has ever became poor by giving.”
Thanks you in advance.
tduds
Jan 8, 20 12:58 pm
"irregular geometrical form terrain" means nothing, and "approach" is so vague you might as well be asking "How do I architect?"
This question is too general to answer. Can you give an example of what you're struggling with? Or rephrase your question to be more specific?
Wood Guy
Jan 8, 20 1:16 pm
Ditto tduds. "Approach" can mean either a design strategy or a driveway/walkway. "Irregular geometrical form terrain" probably means a sloped or otherwise challenging site, but if your intent is something more specific, please rephrase.
darkryst
Jan 8, 20 1:22 pm
Okay, i'll explain better, imagine you have a irregular pentagonal shape, Look at the picture below : the grey area is your terrain, the red lines are your roads.
let's say you're asked to design something, i don't know ... a commercial hub or a residential building. how you start drawing, (forget about the analysis & everything) just as a form, how you'd start. i struggle a lot, usually i create an axe that is parallele to one of the lines, & see what i can get to with it, if i'm not satisfied i try something else. but i'm sure that's not the only possible way, i've seen many projects that are like... designed without following any axe, but still gives that integration feel. i hope i made it at least a minimum clear. i'm sorry if my english is bad or my terms are not clear. i study in french & its hard for me to translate that.
Non Sequitur
Jan 8, 20 1:30 pm
um... what you're asking can easily be solved by very quick massing and multiple iterations + some consideration to the context outside of your irregular shape. This is design... so design something.
darkryst
Jan 8, 20 6:24 pm
what is quick massing ? what is multiple iterations ?
Non Sequitur
Jan 8, 20 7:09 pm
Quick massings are groupings or programmes spaces (3D) to test design and spatial relationships. Iterations means you Do this several dozen times and take notes along the way. After 20-30 different tries, you review and pick what works and move on from there. You won’t get everything right at once, but after many versions, you’ll have plenty of information to love on with more detailed design.
darkryst
Jan 8, 20 7:18 pm
Oh I see. that's true, it may actually let me go deeper in my thinking, making a lot of volumetric composition, adjusting them maybe going like "merging" them. (we had a quick teamwork to make a sketch of a seaside hotel. we had several ideas that we ended up merging & it gave something really cool). its mostly the idea i guess, doing a lot of quick massings, taking what you feel are good, maybe merge them... etc Thanks you again Non. (This litterally made my architecture vocabulary in english a bit better xd )
Non Sequitur
Jan 8, 20 7:23 pm
Pas de problèmes. Bonne chance.
darkryst
Jan 8, 20 9:01 pm
Merci beaucoup. Bonne journée/soirée a vous.
OddArchitect
Jan 8, 20 1:29 pm
As with every project start with a thorough site analysis.
views, sun exposure, surrounding buildings / features, traffic and circulation, natural features, setbacks and zoning requirements.
From there you should be able to gain a direction of where programmed spaces should be located on the site.
At this point the form of the building should start to become more apparent. The final form will of course depend on the designer and client. I myself am a form follows function person.
tduds
Jan 8, 20 1:40 pm
This is a good answer. But remember, at a certain point, you're just going to have to make decisions based on what you want to design. There is no "right answer" to architecture. There are a thousand right answers and a million wrong ones. You can use context to get you pointed in a direction, but the "approach" is ultimately your judgment call.
darkryst
Jan 8, 20 1:42 pm
yes, site analysis help a lot in finding which thing goes where. but not "how", it may be something that has nothing to do with architecture in general, it may be a "general design" problem that i have. that's why i'm asking questions. i'm being more confused because of the boundaries. :c
darkryst
Jan 8, 20 1:44 pm
Sorry tduds, i didn't see your reply as i was writing mine. i totally agree with you. you can use context to guide yourself, but not necessarily.
OddArchitect
Jan 8, 20 2:17 pm
As tduds said, there is no right answer. How you make design decisions is a personal process. This is something that YOU develop over time.
OddArchitect
Jan 8, 20 2:17 pm
Oh and I personally think context should never be ignored completely.
Marc Miller
Jan 8, 20 1:30 pm
What's a normal form terrain, and where is it normal for?
Like are we talking large drumlins in Georgia, or deserts in Minnesota?
Marc Miller
Jan 8, 20 1:31 pm
Ahhhh, irregular site boundaries...
darkryst
Jan 8, 20 1:38 pm
Yeah i'm not talking about the terrain form by itself, its more about the boundaries. ^^'
OddArchitect
Jan 8, 20 4:59 pm
Deserts in Minnesota?
Marc Miller
Jan 8, 20 5:45 pm
That would be a "weird form terrain.
"
OddArchitect
Jan 8, 20 6:47 pm
That would have to be 'after the apocalypse' terrain if in Minnesota.
darkryst
Jan 8, 20 3:33 pm
So after all we were talking about; i'm still on the same point; i know globally what you people trying to say, i appreciate it, thanks you. now what's annoying me is that feel of "lost", the problem isn't about the terrain analysis, or the theme analysis or anyhing, its more about "competences", i have problems with volume & shape compositions i guess, that's why i get mostly lost. i miss something that is probably a basic thing. if anyone know a book that could help please let me know. any other advices are appreciable, talking with you will only increase my knowledge.
Thanks you again.
Non Sequitur
Jan 8, 20 4:16 pm
I think I recognize your problem. Way back when I taught design studio, we would often have lots with irregular angles and there was always that one student who decided to make their entire project relative to that one wonky line, even when it was far away from their building(s). I found that this type of student was always looking for something to "anchor" their building. This is a poor design strategy. It is much easier to look at your program and related spaces and organize them to suit the site's condition and neighboring context than get held down by arbitrary boundary lines.
tduds
Jan 8, 20 4:34 pm
Great point Non
Non Sequitur
Jan 8, 20 5:19 pm
Cheers Tduds. Sometimes I try to actually answer things... sometimes.
darkryst
Jan 8, 20 7:02 pm
Oh ! I didn't see this message. my bad. I understand what you mean. finding the most suitable place in the terrain for the specific spaces, organize them & connect them to each other (if they have to), than think about the global design, how it can be so everything's in place. doing a organizational chart by putting some bubble or text on the terrain. I tried to do that, sometimes it just blocks though i can't get past the bubble schematic stuff, & i usually judge what i do "ugly" or "bad" or "not what i want it to look like". I'll keep trying. Thanks you Non Sequitur.
tduds
Jan 8, 20 4:10 pm
Stop thinking. Start drawing.
You're expecting to have a flash of inspiration, from which the solution will just flow naturally. Trust me when I say that's not how any of this works (as I've learned by being in your position many, many times before). The best way to overcome a creative block is to just start doodling bullshit. Get out a piece of trace and draw lines. Put another trace over that one and draw more lines. Think critically about what's pleasing, and why. More trace. More lines. Eventually something coherent will begin to emerge. Think about it more. Draw it again. And again. And again still.
*Then* you'll be doing architecture.
tduds
Jan 8, 20 4:12 pm
Alternately: go take a walk and try to pay attention to everything you see. Every building, brick, sidewalk, light post, tree, and oddly-dressed human is a new bit of knowledge in your arsenal. Let your mind follow tangents with no particular goal. Every good idea I've ever had has come to me during a walk. ...Then, of course, go back to your desk and keep drawing.
darkryst
Jan 8, 20 6:23 pm
This is something i'm probably missing. i'm not taking that much time for me, i usually keep thinking what i could do. ending with sleepless nights, stress, & more pressure. i think i'mma follow ur advices i'll take a walk with a notebook, a pen, & just draw whatever i see interesting, i'll draw again & again. May Architecture be alaways your beloved passion. Thanks again. Sincerly.
Wood Guy
Jan 8, 20 7:44 pm
I'd add that you should take a sketchpad with you when you go for walks and when something catches your eye, draw it. Your freehand drawing skills will improve, but more importantly you will see forms and compositions that you don't notice at first glance.
darkryst
Jan 8, 20 9:00 pm
Totally. one stone two birds o/
joseffischer
Jan 8, 20 6:42 pm
Here's a curveball for you, now is a good time in any major city to notice a lot of construction activity. Take particular note to how in many projects they just bulldoze everything in the way, dig foundations, and do whatever they want. Get some dimensions on that irregular shape of yours, find the setbacks required in your area, and plop down a rectangle, long face roughly N/S and take a gander.
Personally I'm having trouble understanding whether you're having issues "designing in a grassy field" or "fitting into a small site". There were definitely studios addressing both issues, but they're really fundamentally different. If it's the latter, again, the shape doesn't matter, you're going to try and use all of it. Build to the lot lines if allowed. Provide some street scape of some type and think about your front door a lot.
darkryst
Jan 8, 20 7:11 pm
Well, its more of designing in a dusty field than a grassy one lol. small sites let me fill all of it, which usually doesn't make me scared that much. getting out of space can be bypassed by going vertically. in larger ones, it's a bit tricky, you're like somewhere in a desert trying to find anchor point here & there. i usually never think of front door or entrance mark or whatever its called. usually when i start designing, i litterally can say : "oh here, it's the entrance. i can see it, it have to be here". i never thought of it as a part of the design process... probably a mistake i've been making... i'mma take a look at this, it may unblock my actual situation. Thanks you.
midlander
Jan 8, 20 9:28 pm
it seems like you're getting stuck on the site boundary as a geometric figure. which it isn't, it's an imaginary thing. look at the real views of your site and let that guide your design.
particularly in the kind of "open field" you seem to be imagining, the architecture has no meaningful relation to the site boundaries. it's purely about developing a form that suits the use of the building and a more "eye view" understanding of the site.
midlander
Jan 8, 20 9:30 pm
for more guidance, look for books on masterplanning which can help you understand the non-formal considerations that help a designer develop a concept for using a site well.
joseffischer
Jan 9, 20 10:11 am
good comments
darkryst
Jan 9, 20 10:17 am
Thanks you Midlander ! i'll check on these, they'll surely gonna help me.
Good Morning/Afternoon.
I've alaways had trouble approaching weird form terrains, i'm a student & i'm still learning. So, i wanna know, How to approach a irregular geometrical form terrain ?
If you know any book or article or anything that could help me learn more, please let me know.
PS : it's annoying when your own teacher can't teach you what you want to learn nor help you in that. & it's more annoying when you guys in archinect try to rub salt in the wounds. so please reply to the question. if you don't want to, don't do it. if you can help. help. “No one has ever became poor by giving.”
Thanks you in advance.
"irregular geometrical form terrain" means nothing, and "approach" is so vague you might as well be asking "How do I architect?"
This question is too general to answer. Can you give an example of what you're struggling with? Or rephrase your question to be more specific?
Ditto tduds. "Approach" can mean either a design strategy or a driveway/walkway. "Irregular geometrical form terrain" probably means a sloped or otherwise challenging site, but if your intent is something more specific, please rephrase.
Okay, i'll explain better, imagine you have a irregular pentagonal shape, Look at the picture below : the grey area is your terrain, the red lines are your roads.
let's say you're asked to design something, i don't know ... a commercial hub or a residential building. how you start drawing, (forget about the analysis & everything) just as a form, how you'd start. i struggle a lot, usually i create an axe that is parallele to one of the lines, & see what i can get to with it, if i'm not satisfied i try something else. but i'm sure that's not the only possible way, i've seen many projects that are like... designed without following any axe, but still gives that integration feel. i hope i made it at least a minimum clear. i'm sorry if my english is bad or my terms are not clear. i study in french & its hard for me to translate that.
um... what you're asking can easily be solved by very quick massing and multiple iterations + some consideration to the context outside of your irregular shape. This is design... so design something.
what is quick massing ? what is multiple iterations ?
Quick massings are groupings or programmes spaces (3D) to test design and spatial relationships. Iterations means you Do this several dozen times and take notes along the way. After 20-30 different tries, you review and pick what works and move on from there. You won’t get everything right at once, but after many versions, you’ll have plenty of information to love on with more detailed design.
Oh I see. that's true, it may actually let me go deeper in my thinking, making a lot of volumetric composition, adjusting them maybe going like "merging" them. (we had a quick teamwork to make a sketch of a seaside hotel. we had several ideas that we ended up merging & it gave something really cool). its mostly the idea i guess, doing a lot of quick massings, taking what you feel are good, maybe merge them... etc Thanks you again Non. (This litterally made my architecture vocabulary in english a bit better xd )
Pas de problèmes. Bonne chance.
Merci beaucoup. Bonne journée/soirée a vous.
As with every project start with a thorough site analysis.
views, sun exposure, surrounding buildings / features, traffic and circulation, natural features, setbacks and zoning requirements.
From there you should be able to gain a direction of where programmed spaces should be located on the site.
At this point the form of the building should start to become more apparent. The final form will of course depend on the designer and client. I myself am a form follows function person.
This is a good answer. But remember, at a certain point, you're just going to have to make decisions based on what you want to design. There is no "right answer" to architecture. There are a thousand right answers and a million wrong ones. You can use context to get you pointed in a direction, but the "approach" is ultimately your judgment call.
yes, site analysis help a lot in finding which thing goes where. but not "how", it may be something that has nothing to do with architecture in general, it may be a "general design" problem that i have. that's why i'm asking questions. i'm being more confused because of the boundaries. :c
Sorry tduds, i didn't see your reply as i was writing mine. i totally agree with you. you can use context to guide yourself, but not necessarily.
As tduds said, there is no right answer. How you make design decisions is a personal process. This is something that YOU develop over time.
Oh and I personally think context should never be ignored completely.
What's a normal form terrain, and where is it normal for?
Like are we talking large drumlins in Georgia, or deserts in Minnesota?
Ahhhh, irregular site boundaries...
Yeah i'm not talking about the terrain form by itself, its more about the boundaries. ^^'
Deserts in Minnesota?
That would be a "weird form terrain. "
That would have to be 'after the apocalypse' terrain if in Minnesota.
So after all we were talking about; i'm still on the same point; i know globally what you people trying to say, i appreciate it, thanks you. now what's annoying me is that feel of "lost", the problem isn't about the terrain analysis, or the theme analysis or anyhing, its more about "competences", i have problems with volume & shape compositions i guess, that's why i get mostly lost. i miss something that is probably a basic thing. if anyone know a book that could help please let me know. any other advices are appreciable, talking with you will only increase my knowledge.
Thanks you again.
I think I recognize your problem. Way back when I taught design studio, we would often have lots with irregular angles and there was always that one student who decided to make their entire project relative to that one wonky line, even when it was far away from their building(s). I found that this type of student was always looking for something to "anchor" their building. This is a poor design strategy. It is much easier to look at your program and related spaces and organize them to suit the site's condition and neighboring context than get held down by arbitrary boundary lines.
Great point Non
Cheers Tduds. Sometimes I try to actually answer things... sometimes.
Oh ! I didn't see this message. my bad. I understand what you mean. finding the most suitable place in the terrain for the specific spaces, organize them & connect them to each other (if they have to), than think about the global design, how it can be so everything's in place. doing a organizational chart by putting some bubble or text on the terrain. I tried to do that, sometimes it just blocks though i can't get past the bubble schematic stuff, & i usually judge what i do "ugly" or "bad" or "not what i want it to look like". I'll keep trying. Thanks you Non Sequitur.
Stop thinking. Start drawing.
You're expecting to have a flash of inspiration, from which the solution will just flow naturally. Trust me when I say that's not how any of this works (as I've learned by being in your position many, many times before). The best way to overcome a creative block is to just start doodling bullshit. Get out a piece of trace and draw lines. Put another trace over that one and draw more lines. Think critically about what's pleasing, and why. More trace. More lines. Eventually something coherent will begin to emerge. Think about it more. Draw it again. And again. And again still.
*Then* you'll be doing architecture.
Alternately: go take a walk and try to pay attention to everything you see. Every building, brick, sidewalk, light post, tree, and oddly-dressed human is a new bit of knowledge in your arsenal. Let your mind follow tangents with no particular goal. Every good idea I've ever had has come to me during a walk. ...Then, of course, go back to your desk and keep drawing.
This is something i'm probably missing. i'm not taking that much time for me, i usually keep thinking what i could do. ending with sleepless nights, stress, & more pressure. i think i'mma follow ur advices i'll take a walk with a notebook, a pen, & just draw whatever i see interesting, i'll draw again & again. May Architecture be alaways your beloved passion. Thanks again. Sincerly.
I'd add that you should take a sketchpad with you when you go for walks and when something catches your eye, draw it. Your freehand drawing skills will improve, but more importantly you will see forms and compositions that you don't notice at first glance.
Totally. one stone two birds o/
Here's a curveball for you, now is a good time in any major city to notice a lot of construction activity. Take particular note to how in many projects they just bulldoze everything in the way, dig foundations, and do whatever they want. Get some dimensions on that irregular shape of yours, find the setbacks required in your area, and plop down a rectangle, long face roughly N/S and take a gander.
Personally I'm having trouble understanding whether you're having issues "designing in a grassy field" or "fitting into a small site". There were definitely studios addressing both issues, but they're really fundamentally different. If it's the latter, again, the shape doesn't matter, you're going to try and use all of it. Build to the lot lines if allowed. Provide some street scape of some type and think about your front door a lot.
Well, its more of designing in a dusty field than a grassy one lol. small sites let me fill all of it, which usually doesn't make me scared that much. getting out of space can be bypassed by going vertically. in larger ones, it's a bit tricky, you're like somewhere in a desert trying to find anchor point here & there. i usually never think of front door or entrance mark or whatever its called. usually when i start designing, i litterally can say : "oh here, it's the entrance. i can see it, it have to be here". i never thought of it as a part of the design process... probably a mistake i've been making... i'mma take a look at this, it may unblock my actual situation. Thanks you.
it seems like you're getting stuck on the site boundary as a geometric figure. which it isn't, it's an imaginary thing. look at the real views of your site and let that guide your design.
particularly in the kind of "open field" you seem to be imagining, the architecture has no meaningful relation to the site boundaries. it's purely about developing a form that suits the use of the building and a more "eye view" understanding of the site.
for more guidance, look for books on masterplanning which can help you understand the non-formal considerations that help a designer develop a concept for using a site well.
good comments
Thanks you Midlander ! i'll check on these, they'll surely gonna help me.
that looks like a kraken, not architecture wtf xD