Out of curiosity, what are some things you wished you had done or had done and would recommend to others in undergrad? If it’s something that you did do, how did it change your career as an architect?
Dokuser
Dec 19, 19 2:42 pm
*...as an architect or as a person who works in an architecture related field?
atelier nobody
Dec 19, 19 2:57 pm
Your internships are far more important than your classes.
Dokuser
Dec 19, 19 3:02 pm
This is amazing to hear. I was focusing my semester on this and landed an internship with a prestigious firm in NY for this upcoming summer. However, I resultantly got a B+ in studio along with many other B+'s and A-'s. I actually asked this question because I felt as if I was prioritizing all the wrong things. Thank-you.
Non Sequitur
Dec 19, 19 3:30 pm
Is that internship a paid or a slavery gig?
Dokuser
Dec 19, 19 3:36 pm
Paid, thankfully. I would’ve gone for an unpaid internship if it came to it in all honesty, though.
Non Sequitur
Dec 19, 19 3:42 pm
Never take unpaid gigs. No excuse. That should be item 1 through 3 in the top 5 items.
eeayeeayo
Dec 19, 19 4:04 pm
Dokuser: At one time or another I received every possible grade in an undergrad studio, except F. Life wasn't noticeably better in the semester that I got an A. The world didn't end the semester I got a D. In the end it all affected NOTHING. Grades are just... grades. They have almost no long-term meaning outside of that one institution. I got into my choice of grad school (plus all but one of the others to which I applied) with a merit-based scholarship! I did fine there! I graduated, and nobody ever asked me about my grades again.
Besides not worrying about grades, the other thing I wish I'd done differently in college is not wasting any elective credits on software courses. The only thing being on the cutting edge of software knowledge gets you once you graduate is the position of CAD or BIM expert for a year - which usually means you clock less billable time than others, because you're spending so much of your time developing standards or doing pretty renderings for marketing proposals - which makes you the first target of any layoffs that come along - and if you aren't laid off then you're still there to see all your standards get replaced the next year anyway, by the now-more-cutting-edge fresh grad they just hired. Don't take any software classes. Take philosophy, political science, welding...
Non Sequitur
Dec 19, 19 4:24 pm
+1 to welding. I learned how to weld in 3rd (or 2nd?) year undergrad. Made my models extra nice and gave me an early appreciation for the poor tradespeople.
Dokuser
Dec 19, 19 5:12 pm
@eeayeeayo, good point. Interesting how much long-term leverage certain subjects have over another.
thatsthat
Dec 19, 19 3:02 pm
Work as many internships as possible. Use these opportunities to figure out what area of the field you want to work in. I didn't take the change to do any internships, and I had a very distorted view of how important school was. Get through school as best as you can, but as long as you get the piece of paper, it doesn't matter if you were a straight A or a C- student in studio. Experience matters a great deal in this field.
Archie-Bunker
Dec 19, 19 3:03 pm
Real-world architectural practice and how to better deal with narcissistic co-workers/bosses.
Dokuser
Dec 19, 19 5:23 pm
Sounds like a fun time
curtkram
Dec 19, 19 10:01 pm
learning psychology is one of those things that will pay back in spades. I you understand it well enough, you'll never be mad at another person, which will cut your stress and add years to your life.
apkouv
Dec 20, 19 5:38 pm
You can't call people narcissistic when they only have higher standards than you.
Archie-Bunker
Dec 21, 19 8:44 pm
Narcissism has little to nothing to do with "higher standards" in regards to quality of work. In fact, it usually creates the opposite effect as it only serves to appease one person's ego over the success of a project team or office in general.
You sound like one yourself.
apkouv
Dec 22, 19 12:07 pm
If you are in an office filled with narcissists, it's either a bad office or people do not respect you because your standards are not high enough.
Archie-Bunker
Dec 23, 19 3:15 pm
You’ve missed my point. Narcissism does not equal high standards, they are totally different. You have the “think they know it all types” and don’t care to improve or will even because again narcissism is all about ego.
Archie-Bunker
Dec 23, 19 3:31 pm
*Wtf Edit: ...The “know it all types” that don’t improve (because their ego knows best!) or will even put others down (unwarrantedly) to make themselves appear better. My point to OP is even in the greatest offices these toxic co-workers can exist and you must learn to work with them. If the work environment all together is toxic then it’s time to move on.
Non Sequitur
Dec 19, 19 3:32 pm
There is value in both sky-hook heavy and reasonable designs.
mightyaa
Dec 19, 19 3:58 pm
Agreed. Its college; you'll have an entire career to deal with real world realities / limitations.
Non Sequitur
Dec 19, 19 4:22 pm
^Correct. On my last guest critt invitation... I tore into one student who used a (incorrect) firetruck access route to organize a whole housing complex instead of... I don't know, focusing on the views to the river and historical neighbouring buildings? The same student also copy/pasted a 1:5 lag bolt detail and pinned that up as their only drawing.
OddArchitect
Dec 19, 19 5:14 pm
In the same project?
Non Sequitur
Dec 19, 19 5:35 pm
Yes
OddArchitect
Dec 19, 19 6:11 pm
WTF? How is that even possible?
Non Sequitur
Dec 20, 19 9:38 am
Chad, I don't recall exactly, but I do remember the student to be very obsessed with how one part of their project was anchored to an existing 100+ year old building. No consideration for design or structural integrity/conservation of the existing fabric... but hey, who cares when you pin-up what looks to be a architectural detail?Eugh, not the worst project during that day of crits, but close to.
OddArchitect
Dec 19, 19 5:03 pm
No future employer cares about your grades, only that you graduated with an accredited architectural degree.
This survey addresses the importance of GPA according to employers. I've never personally had any conversations about GPA, but apparently some find it important to very important
Dokuser
Dec 19, 19 6:48 pm
During the interviews I attended I never had to provide my GPA. Then again, it probably depends on the employer. I'll still care about my grades--I find it nearly impossible not to, but I won't fixate on them.
OddArchitect
Dec 19, 19 6:48 pm
Interesting.
thisisnotmyname
Dec 19, 19 6:54 pm
I've had about 15-20 architecture job interviews over the years, and I was never asked about my GPA.
OddArchitect
Dec 19, 19 6:54 pm
Maybe just your first job out of school?
thisisnotmyname
Dec 19, 19 7:04 pm
Yes, that's true. When we interview students for summer positions or recent grads, they will usually list their GPA on their resume. We don't pay a lot of attention to it unless it's really low. We never ask for transcripts.
apkouv
Dec 19, 19 7:36 pm
We all are products of our environment, so don't underplay the importance of (a good) school. It is a part of the life of an architect and you can get very valuable life lessons out of it. Skipping it or rushing it would be like not having lived your childhood years.
Generally the formula is that a strong academic achievement from a decent school will set you up for a respectable first graduate job and that job for the next one. Of course you can get a (similar) result using a different formula, but that's the mostly exception rather than the rule.
Dokuser
Dec 22, 19 2:39 pm
For some reason I read this in my mother's lecturing voice. But I agree that this is definitely important.
archi_dude
Dec 19, 19 9:55 pm
What I wish I knew.....
1) How incredibly useless most architecture courses are and the very low return on long hours in studio. Time spent outside of studio was by far way more enriching and created some of my most lasting memories and strongest network connections from my college days.
2) Theres something psychologically wrong with the people volunteering to rip into students at studio critiques. They seriously took a day off to be an ass? Don't worry so much about what they think
3) The firms that have good salaries and hours don't really care about your portfolio and are much more interested in your internships and real projects you've worked on.
4) You don't need to be in a "creative" career to have creative job functions and independence. In fact most creative career paths are just technicians regurgitating others design ideas with almost no creative outlet or ownership of what they produce...other jobs are not as mundane as your professors will try and instill on you.
geezertect
Dec 20, 19 7:28 am
+++++++
Dokuser
Dec 22, 19 2:51 pm
About #2, my most recent critique featured 2 male guest jurors who stretched a 5 minute crit. to somewhere near 18 minutes. It was a fun time, haha. Except, I filtered out 50% of what they said in one ear and out the other. The other 50%, however, I did in fact use to "fix" my work.
archanonymous
Dec 19, 19 10:06 pm
Model building and hand drawing are the most important skills for a long career.
Take some sculpture and fabrication classes where you actually make things.
Time based media, writing, and storytelling classes pay incredible dividends.
Your professors and your peers are your network for life. Embrace them.
Sometimes you just gotta throw your model out of a 5th story window the night before reviews and redo it.
Dokuser
Dec 22, 19 2:37 pm
That last one could've saved me...or screwed me over even more than I already was. Oddly enough, our building is in fact 5 stories tall.
archanonymous
Dec 19, 19 10:07 pm
Oh, and at every school and in life and career, you get out what you put in.
geezertect
Dec 20, 19 7:30 am
Attitude counts for more than aptitude.
will galloway
Dec 20, 19 6:11 am
only thing i wish i had done was study business. Oh and I shoulda gone to lots more parties with people who are NOT architects.
bowling_ball
Dec 26, 19 11:11 am
I was about to say this myself - go meet people outside of the architecture faculty. Other architecture students can be your friends, but they're unlikely to be your employer or client. Connections matter.
Happy Anarchy
Dec 27, 19 10:58 pm
did the partying part, just not the business part. so no real mullet.
auninja91
Dec 20, 19 4:08 pm
1.More exposure to legal processes such as permits, forms, other building codes.
2.More exposure on how to invoice clients, firms or contractors.
3.There were many courses on drafting, sketching, BIM & watercolour but not enough on layout, presentation, graphics design.
4.There were many courses on construction, building envelope, facades, planning, placemaking but not many on interior elements.
archinine
Dec 24, 19 11:54 am
School debt and paying it back. This will burden you for life. Do whatever you can now to reduce or avoid it. Summer jobs, eating ramen while your body can still tolerate it, applying for any and every scholarship out there while you can, and x10 never ever intern for free. Intern at a contracting or adjacent industry firm if you can’t find a paying arch internship one summer.
Sitting Duck
Dec 26, 19 9:00 am
Something I did know and wholeheartedly advocate:
1. Do not take on more debt than your expected annual salary is the first year out of college. (That way, if you absolutely need to, you can contribute a mere 10% of your salary for the next 10 years still pay it off. Hopefully you can pay up more than that.)
Otherwise:
2. Internships are extremely important.
3. Networking can be pretty fun and engaging. Go get em tiger.
4. Take as many courses that teach real world principles / construction in theoretical ways. (I found more of these in graduate school though).
5. That public school educations are not touted enough/ appreciated by elite academics. Went to a private school for graduate school and left with a number of regrets.
bowling_ball
Dec 26, 19 11:18 am
1. Meet and hang out with people outside of your faculty.
2. Working a summer or two doing construction can pay huge dividends. Everything else being equal, I'll hire a graduate with this experience over one without.
3. Don't worry about being the greatest at the latest software. It can get your foot in the door to a first job, but be careful of getting pigeon holed.
4. If you can take a business course or two, you'll be ahead of most of your peers.
5. Don't take on a dollar more debt than you can handle. Trust me, I just finished paying my student loans off at age 40, and I could have been so much further ahead if I'd been able to take fewer loans (but that's another story).
will galloway
Dec 27, 19 2:15 am
ditto with the loans. I used my savings for grad school, but for undergrad I needed to get loans when my savings ran out. Didn't pay them off till i was 42, just a few years ago. Made a huge difference in my life to have that hanging over me, including deciding if we could afford to have another kid.
On the other hand, working for years and saving for school also set me back in real ways, so it is a calculation either way. I thought I had done alright at the time, but in hindsight I wonder. Cant help but think how stupid north america is that it sets people up to struggle for the first decade of their life out of school, Canada less so than USA, but same general trajectory.
OneLostArchitect
Dec 27, 19 4:08 pm
dropped out.
logon'slogin
Dec 27, 19 9:38 pm
*Drew more than studying conceptual art and architecture. *Had a girlfriend. *Not spent the Holidays at the school. *Drank less hard liquor. *Argued less with post modernist students and their instructors who had Prismacolor pencils, drew and designed like Michael Graves.
Out of curiosity, what are some things you wished you had done or had done and would recommend to others in undergrad? If it’s something that you did do, how did it change your career as an architect?
*...as an architect or as a person who works in an architecture related field?
Your internships are far more important than your classes.
This is amazing to hear. I was focusing my semester on this and landed an internship with a prestigious firm in NY for this upcoming summer. However, I resultantly got a B+ in studio along with many other B+'s and A-'s. I actually asked this question because I felt as if I was prioritizing all the wrong things. Thank-you.
Is that internship a paid or a slavery gig?
Paid, thankfully. I would’ve gone for an unpaid internship if it came to it in all honesty, though.
Never take unpaid gigs. No excuse. That should be item 1 through 3 in the top 5 items.
Dokuser: At one time or another I received every possible grade in an undergrad studio, except F. Life wasn't noticeably better in the semester that I got an A. The world didn't end the semester I got a D. In the end it all affected NOTHING. Grades are just... grades. They have almost no long-term meaning outside of that one institution. I got into my choice of grad school (plus all but one of the others to which I applied) with a merit-based scholarship! I did fine there! I graduated, and nobody ever asked me about my grades again.
Besides not worrying about grades, the other thing I wish I'd done differently in college is not wasting any elective credits on software courses. The only thing being on the cutting edge of software knowledge gets you once you graduate is the position of CAD or BIM expert for a year - which usually means you clock less billable time than others, because you're spending so much of your time developing standards or doing pretty renderings for marketing proposals - which makes you the first target of any layoffs that come along - and if you aren't laid off then you're still there to see all your standards get replaced the next year anyway, by the now-more-cutting-edge fresh grad they just hired. Don't take any software classes. Take philosophy, political science, welding...
+1 to welding. I learned how to weld in 3rd (or 2nd?) year undergrad. Made my models extra nice and gave me an early appreciation for the poor tradespeople.
@eeayeeayo, good point. Interesting how much long-term leverage certain subjects have over another.
Work as many internships as possible. Use these opportunities to figure out what area of the field you want to work in. I didn't take the change to do any internships, and I had a very distorted view of how important school was. Get through school as best as you can, but as long as you get the piece of paper, it doesn't matter if you were a straight A or a C- student in studio. Experience matters a great deal in this field.
Real-world architectural practice and how to better deal with narcissistic co-workers/bosses.
Sounds like a fun time
learning psychology is one of those things that will pay back in spades. I you understand it well enough, you'll never be mad at another person, which will cut your stress and add years to your life.
You can't call people narcissistic when they only have higher standards than you.
Narcissism has little to nothing to do with "higher standards" in regards to quality of work. In fact, it usually creates the opposite effect as it only serves to appease one person's ego over the success of a project team or office in general.
You sound like one yourself.
If you are in an office filled with narcissists, it's either a bad office or people do not respect you because your standards are not high enough.
You’ve missed my point. Narcissism does not equal high standards, they are totally different. You have the “think they know it all types” and don’t care to improve or will even because again narcissism is all about ego.
*Wtf Edit: ...The “know it all types” that don’t improve (because their ego knows best!) or will even put others down (unwarrantedly) to make themselves appear better. My point to OP is even in the greatest offices these toxic co-workers can exist and you must learn to work with them. If the work environment all together is toxic then it’s time to move on.
There is value in both sky-hook heavy and reasonable designs.
Agreed. Its college; you'll have an entire career to deal with real world realities / limitations.
^Correct. On my last guest critt invitation... I tore into one student who used a (incorrect) firetruck access route to organize a whole housing complex instead of... I don't know, focusing on the views to the river and historical neighbouring buildings? The same student also copy/pasted a 1:5 lag bolt detail and pinned that up as their only drawing.
In the same project?
Yes
WTF? How is that even possible?
Chad, I don't recall exactly, but I do remember the student to be very obsessed with how one part of their project was anchored to an existing 100+ year old building. No consideration for design or structural integrity/conservation of the existing fabric... but hey, who cares when you pin-up what looks to be a architectural detail?Eugh, not the worst project during that day of crits, but close to.
No future employer cares about your grades, only that you graduated with an accredited architectural degree.
Rate the importance of the following factors you consider in your hiring decisions for a new architecture graduate entering the workplace:
This survey addresses the importance of GPA according to employers. I've never personally had any conversations about GPA, but apparently some find it important to very important
During the interviews I attended I never had to provide my GPA. Then again, it probably depends on the employer. I'll still care about my grades--I find it nearly impossible not to, but I won't fixate on them.
Interesting.
I've had about 15-20 architecture job interviews over the years, and I was never asked about my GPA.
Maybe just your first job out of school?
Yes, that's true. When we interview students for summer positions or recent grads, they will usually list their GPA on their resume. We don't pay a lot of attention to it unless it's really low. We never ask for transcripts.
We all are products of our environment, so don't underplay the importance of (a good) school. It is a part of the life of an architect and you can get very valuable life lessons out of it. Skipping it or rushing it would be like not having lived your childhood years.
Generally the formula is that a strong academic achievement from a decent school will set you up for a respectable first graduate job and that job for the next one. Of course you can get a (similar) result using a different formula, but that's the mostly exception rather than the rule.
For some reason I read this in my mother's lecturing voice. But I agree that this is definitely important.
What I wish I knew.....
1) How incredibly useless most architecture courses are and the very low return on long hours in studio. Time spent outside of studio was by far way more enriching and created some of my most lasting memories and strongest network connections from my college days.
2) Theres something psychologically wrong with the people volunteering to rip into students at studio critiques. They seriously took a day off to be an ass? Don't worry so much about what they think
3) The firms that have good salaries and hours don't really care about your portfolio and are much more interested in your internships and real projects you've worked on.
4) You don't need to be in a "creative" career to have creative job functions and independence. In fact most creative career paths are just technicians regurgitating others design ideas with almost no creative outlet or ownership of what they produce...other jobs are not as mundane as your professors will try and instill on you.
+++++++
About #2, my most recent critique featured 2 male guest jurors who stretched a 5 minute crit. to somewhere near 18 minutes. It was a fun time, haha. Except, I filtered out 50% of what they said in one ear and out the other. The other 50%, however, I did in fact use to "fix" my work.
Model building and hand drawing are the most important skills for a long career.
Take some sculpture and fabrication classes where you actually make things.
Time based media, writing, and storytelling classes pay incredible dividends.
Your professors and your peers are your network for life. Embrace them.
Sometimes you just gotta throw your model out of a 5th story window the night before reviews and redo it.
That last one could've saved me...or screwed me over even more than I already was. Oddly enough, our building is in fact 5 stories tall.
Oh, and at every school and in life and career, you get out what you put in.
Attitude counts for more than aptitude.
only thing i wish i had done was study business. Oh and I shoulda gone to lots more parties with people who are NOT architects.
I was about to say this myself - go meet people outside of the architecture faculty. Other architecture students can be your friends, but they're unlikely to be your employer or client. Connections matter.
1.More exposure to legal processes such as permits, forms, other building codes.
2.More exposure on how to invoice clients, firms or contractors.
3.There were many courses on drafting, sketching, BIM & watercolour but not enough on layout, presentation, graphics design.
4.There were many courses on construction, building envelope, facades, planning, placemaking but not many on interior elements.
School debt and paying it back. This will burden you for life. Do whatever you can now to reduce or avoid it. Summer jobs, eating ramen while your body can still tolerate it, applying for any and every scholarship out there while you can, and x10 never ever intern for free. Intern at a contracting or adjacent industry firm if you can’t find a paying arch internship one summer.
Something I did know and wholeheartedly advocate:
1. Do not take on more debt than your expected annual salary is the first year out of college. (That way, if you absolutely need to, you can contribute a mere 10% of your salary for the next 10 years still pay it off. Hopefully you can pay up more than that.)
Otherwise:
2. Internships are extremely important.
3. Networking can be pretty fun and engaging. Go get em tiger.
4. Take as many courses that teach real world principles / construction in theoretical ways. (I found more of these in graduate school though).
5. That public school educations are not touted enough/ appreciated by elite academics. Went to a private school for graduate school and left with a number of regrets.
1. Meet and hang out with people outside of your faculty.
2. Working a summer or two doing construction can pay huge dividends. Everything else being equal, I'll hire a graduate with this experience over one without.
3. Don't worry about being the greatest at the latest software. It can get your foot in the door to a first job, but be careful of getting pigeon holed.
4. If you can take a business course or two, you'll be ahead of most of your peers.
5. Don't take on a dollar more debt than you can handle. Trust me, I just finished paying my student loans off at age 40, and I could have been so much further ahead if I'd been able to take fewer loans (but that's another story).
ditto with the loans. I used my savings for grad school, but for undergrad I needed to get loans when my savings ran out. Didn't pay them off till i was 42, just a few years ago. Made a huge difference in my life to have that hanging over me, including deciding if we could afford to have another kid.
On the other hand, working for years and saving for school also set me back in real ways, so it is a calculation either way. I thought I had done alright at the time, but in hindsight I wonder. Cant help but think how stupid north america is that it sets people up to struggle for the first decade of their life out of school, Canada less so than USA, but same general trajectory.
dropped out.
*Drew more than studying conceptual art and architecture.
*Had a girlfriend.
*Not spent the Holidays at the school.
*Drank less hard liquor.
*Argued less with post modernist students and their instructors who had Prismacolor pencils, drew and designed like Michael Graves.
join a fraternity/sorority, clubs, sports....
stay away from other architects in general.