Just a general debate as to which country is better to practise architecture!
Based on practices; appointment methods, setting fees, responsibilities, powers, reassurances etc...(not quality of architecture)
what could elements from each country to be brought to the other?
BE NICE!
threeohdoor
Dec 4, 19 1:02 pm
I have nothing to offer from experience. However, I'd love to hear about regulatory differences between the two. Grenfell is an obvious example of discrepancy but I'm sure there are more. How do these regulators regulate? Testing standards?
Non Sequitur
Dec 4, 19 1:21 pm
Canada for the win.
Easier licensing exams
Low tuition costs
No NCARB
No unpaid internships
Healthcare and decent basic labour laws
Metric system.
Gun control
OddArchitect
Dec 4, 19 2:03 pm
I fail to see how the metric system makes things better. ;)
atelier nobody
Dec 4, 19 7:52 pm
If
God had meant us to use metric, She wouldn't have given us 12 toes on each foot...
archi_dude
Dec 4, 19 8:22 pm
Wait so let's see, 1/3 of this is 12.57 feet soooooo....crud. that's how its better.
JLC-1
Dec 4, 19 2:09 pm
when you spell PRACTICE two different ways in your opening statement, it's clear which is best.
SneakyPete
Dec 4, 19 2:55 pm
I dunno, kind of a grey area.
C_UK
Dec 4, 19 3:02 pm
A little off topic...Actually I think what I wrote stands correct with the subject line using practise as a verb and 'based on 'practices' describing an architectural practice as a noun.
C_UK
Dec 4, 19 3:06 pm
I actually can't weigh in on how thing are done in the US...I'm actually trying to figure out some of the differences in an attempt to suggest different methods of operating that could be brought to the UK
One of the interesting issues in the UK is the importance of both the RIBA and ARB, with difficult arising from trying to justify the need for both. The ARB serve to protect the public from architects and regulate the profession whilst the RIBA maintains education standards.
C_UK
Dec 4, 19 3:10 pm
Fees are another interesting subject...In the UK we tend mainly charge as a percentage of construction cost or fixed lump sum, with only a quarter of charges based upon an hourly rate.
I believe in the US a cost/sq ft system is used?
Non Sequitur
Dec 4, 19 7:47 pm
Ricky, the OP is asking about professional fees, not construction cost estimating.
C_UK
Dec 4, 19 7:52 pm
Yes, I suppose i'm interested in finding out if there are any more sophisticated methods used for calculating fees for architectural services. I've read a lot of material on the potential of performance based costing, however this is not something use din the UK. Additionally it seems that integrated project delivery is much more advanced in the US?
archanonymous
Dec 4, 19 7:44 pm
I've heard (and vaguely remember from professional practice class) that in the UK the plan reviewers/ permitting authority is responsible for the building complying with all applicable codes and regulations, is this true?
In the US, though our drawings are reviewed for permitting, the stamping architect is fully liable for those elements of the design and the permitting authorities take no responsibility for it.
C_UK
Dec 4, 19 7:53 pm
Hi archanonymous,
C_UK
Dec 4, 19 8:05 pm
Yes in the UK architects do not have 'protection of function'. Whilst the title 'architect' is protected by law, anyone can submit a planning application or produce drawings for construction. By law all building regulations must be complied with and this is checked by the building control officer from the local authority or an approved inspector.
Happy Anarchy
Dec 4, 19 11:10 pm
from what I remember reading and watching (that one design show) the British design all the way into means and method and somewhat remove the builder from the process where in the US the builder builds and talks the architect out of the process.
for instance, was watching a documentary on some high rise job in London and basically everything was pre-fab, a few crane operators and done. the architect was very involved in putting this all together with 3D and 4D (staging) renderings.
in the US, the Construction Manager would just find the cheapest fastest way possible, including cheap labor, and define the process and the architect is stuck working with substitutes, etc...because all the client hears is - Savings!
b3tadine[sutures]
Dec 5, 19 11:36 am
My favorite architecture story - not really but hey, I'm American, and hyperbole got us this far - was when I worked at this one NYC office and we kept seeing this note on drawings: "Make It Good". We kept asking, what is this, what does it mean?! Well, it turns out, that one of our staff was from GB, and over there, "Make It Good", means "Patch To Match Existing Adjacent Finish" and that it's a well understood direction. That. Is. Awesome!
archanonymous
Dec 5, 19 12:19 pm
hmmm my notes often say "Don't make it shitty."
Bench
Dec 5, 19 1:14 pm
Beta, I had the exact same comment on drawings when I worked in the UK. It took forever to figure out what that meant. Ends up it is totally standard and both Arch's + GC's completely understand it.
b3tadine[sutures]
Dec 5, 19 1:28 pm
Bench! Thank you for confirming, I think it's a great note, when everyone understands what "Good" means.
Bench
Dec 5, 19 1:30 pm
Just make it good, quit faffin' about
tduds
Dec 5, 19 1:32 pm
I need a "Make it Good" stamp for ridiculous RFI
s
Non Sequitur
Dec 5, 19 3:47 pm
"make good" is a common note in our drawing set.
Bench
Dec 5, 19 4:39 pm
Have you also been serving tea and crumpets recently?
Just a general debate as to which country is better to practise architecture!
Based on practices; appointment methods, setting fees, responsibilities, powers, reassurances etc...(not quality of architecture)
what could elements from each country to be brought to the other?
BE NICE!
I have nothing to offer from experience. However, I'd love to hear about regulatory differences between the two. Grenfell is an obvious example of discrepancy but I'm sure there are more. How do these regulators regulate? Testing standards?
Canada for the win.
Easier licensing exams
Low tuition costs
No NCARB
No unpaid internships
Healthcare and decent basic labour laws
Metric system.
Gun control
I fail to see how the metric system makes things better. ;)
If God had meant us to use metric, She wouldn't have given us 12 toes on each foot...
Wait so let's see, 1/3 of this is 12.57 feet soooooo....crud. that's how its better.
when you spell PRACTICE two different ways in your opening statement, it's clear which is best.
I dunno, kind of a grey area.
A little off topic...Actually I think what I wrote stands correct with the subject line using practise as a verb and 'based on 'practices' describing an architectural practice as a noun.
I actually can't weigh in on how thing are done in the US...I'm actually trying to figure out some of the differences in an attempt to suggest different methods of operating that could be brought to the UK
One of the interesting issues in the UK is the importance of both the RIBA and ARB, with difficult arising from trying to justify the need for both. The ARB serve to protect the public from architects and regulate the profession whilst the RIBA maintains education standards.
Fees are another interesting subject...In the UK we tend mainly charge as a percentage of construction cost or fixed lump sum, with only a quarter of charges based upon an hourly rate.
I believe in the US a cost/sq ft system is used?
Ricky, the OP is asking about professional fees, not construction cost estimating.
Yes, I suppose i'm interested in finding out if there are any more sophisticated methods used for calculating fees for architectural services. I've read a lot of material on the potential of performance based costing, however this is not something use din the UK. Additionally it seems that integrated project delivery is much more advanced in the US?
I've heard (and vaguely remember from professional practice class) that in the UK the plan reviewers/ permitting authority is responsible for the building complying with all applicable codes and regulations, is this true?
In the US, though our drawings are reviewed for permitting, the stamping architect is fully liable for those elements of the design and the permitting authorities take no responsibility for it.
Hi archanonymous,
Yes in the UK architects do not have 'protection of function'. Whilst the title 'architect' is protected by law, anyone can submit a planning application or produce drawings for construction. By law all building regulations must be complied with and this is checked by the building control officer from the local authority or an approved inspector.
from what I remember reading and watching (that one design show) the British design all the way into means and method and somewhat remove the builder from the process where in the US the builder builds and talks the architect out of the process.
for instance, was watching a documentary on some high rise job in London and basically everything was pre-fab, a few crane operators and done. the architect was very involved in putting this all together with 3D and 4D (staging) renderings.
in the US, the Construction Manager would just find the cheapest fastest way possible, including cheap labor, and define the process and the architect is stuck working with substitutes, etc...because all the client hears is - Savings!
My favorite architecture story - not really but hey, I'm American, and hyperbole got us this far - was when I worked at this one NYC office and we kept seeing this note on drawings: "Make It Good". We kept asking, what is this, what does it mean?! Well, it turns out, that one of our staff was from GB, and over there, "Make It Good", means "Patch To Match Existing Adjacent Finish" and that it's a well understood direction. That. Is. Awesome!
hmmm my notes often say "Don't make it shitty."
Beta, I had the exact same comment on drawings when I worked in the UK. It took forever to figure out what that meant. Ends up it is totally standard and both Arch's + GC's completely understand it.
Bench! Thank you for confirming, I think it's a great note, when everyone understands what "Good" means.
Just make it good, quit faffin' about
I need a "Make it Good" stamp for ridiculous RFI s
"make good" is a common note in our drawing set.
Have you also been serving tea and crumpets recently?
fuck no.
ironmongery