For practicing architects, how often are you using trig or calculus?
Thanks
Adam Denais
Nov 14, 19 10:56 am
0.
kjdt
Nov 14, 19 11:01 am
Calculus: never first-hand in practice. It's been very occasionally useful to understand it, because our acoustical consultants do use it to evaluate some of our proposed assemblies, and in their reports assessing existing conditions.
Trig: from time to time. Mostly to understand how to model complex volumes and their intersections. If one is working in a firm that never does that sort of thing, then it would be easily possible to never encounter the need for it.
r.m.m.
Nov 14, 19 10:31 pm
acoustical consultant sounds like an interesting job, I always thought architects did that on their own
archanonymous
Nov 14, 19 1:26 pm
If you can draw in CAD there's no need for trig as the answers are all generated by the drawings. That said I still use it when designing on paper/ talking/ having charettes and not drafting.
Calculus... lol. Maybe if you are reading pretentious theoretical architectural texts you will talk about it, but you'll never use it.
atelier nobody
Nov 14, 19 1:33 pm
The caveat to using CAD to do your math is, you'd better draw it RIGHT to get the right answers - I've seen a lot of sloppy CAD drafting in my career (89.99999999° angles...really?!?), and I've had busts in the field because of it.
archanonymous
Nov 14, 19 10:16 pm
Well if the people (or the office) can't draft right there's fuck all chance I'd trust them to do trig.
Non-ASD Jequitarchitectur
Nov 15, 19 5:14 pm
Calculus in pretentious theoretical texts? Just shows how little you know about calculus. You will find calculus is a requirement in structural design and building physics engineering. As an architect (depending again on the country where you practice) you only need to know the basics of these.
archanonymous
Nov 15, 19 8:14 pm
I've never heard of an architect doing anything other than the most rudimentary statics calcs. Curious what kind of projects you work on where you do, or why you aren't collaborating with a trained engineer?
atelier nobody
Nov 14, 19 1:30 pm
I've used trig once in the last 25 years. I've never understood why calculus is a prereq for so many M.Arch programs - I've never heard of it being used in architecture. I'm not even sure how much engineers actually use it.
tduds
Nov 14, 19 2:15 pm
Calculus helps me understand the universe, in that way only it might help me be a better architect.
In my day-to-day jobbings I rarely encounter something more complicated than percentages.
HOW DEEP IS YOUR MATH (How. deep. is. your. math.)
Wilma Buttfit
Nov 16, 19 10:47 am
This song has been in my head for 2 days straight now.
bennyc
Nov 14, 19 7:21 pm
Math will be very very important, more important then design. You better remember all the additions and subtractions because you will need it to generate balance statements and calculate how much time and money you are spending versus how much money you are making.
atelier nobody
Nov 14, 19 7:44 pm
benny has a good point - bookkeeping, accounts payable, and especially accounts receivable are skills you will definitely be needing.
r.m.m.
Nov 14, 19 10:36 pm
is this referring to private practice or is this also applicable to working as an associate.
atelier nobody
Nov 15, 19 3:23 pm
I've had to do all of the above, as well as making the collection calls myself, as a PM in a large firm.
zonker
Nov 14, 19 7:49 pm
you need to add fractions in your head when talking to co-workers and project architects - I know people who can mentally add multiple dimensions at once
BulgarBlogger
Nov 14, 19 8:09 pm
One word: Zoning
sameolddoctor
Nov 14, 19 8:51 pm
math is super important to count the zillions we make.
Non Sequitur
Nov 14, 19 9:32 pm
how many zillions in a baziilion? I keep forgetting and none of my 14 maids can remember.
Non-ASD Jequitarchitectur
Nov 15, 19 5:15 pm
New low.
Happy Anarchy
Nov 14, 19 10:46 pm
use it all the time:
- Structural Engineering
- Zoning (see above), if you're good Excel or Parametrics (ish) is a method
- Accounting (running a business)
- HVAC design
- Egress routes (simple)
- Proving that a 34" swing door is ADA (32" clear)
Non Sequitur
Nov 14, 19 11:14 pm
- Proving that a 34" swing door is ADA (32" clear)
That's not math... it's sorcery.
btw, accessible doors in my area are now default 38" (965mm)
curtkram
Nov 15, 19 3:39 pm
the new A117 is going to suck
Non Sequitur
Nov 15, 19 5:44 pm
48” standard? Don’t give them ideas.
BulgarBlogger
Nov 15, 19 6:11 pm
A 34" Door is NOT ADA compliant. Only a 36" door is truly ADA conmpliant because the clear width is measured between the stop and the face of the door leaf.
Non Sequitur
Nov 14, 19 11:19 pm
Use math all the time. Been working on roof slopes and structural drawings all day which required a little trig. I do a shit load of calculus (basic formulas) for energy modeling and code reqs... plus all the other basic things like scaling old drawings and whatnot. What's more important is getting very comfortable with math because you'll need to eventually deal with occupancy counts, room areas, material take-offs, minimal clearances, material thickness, etc.
btw, I failed most of my HS math class but I excelled once I used it for structure and other basic everyday real world situations.
Wilma Buttfit
Nov 15, 19 3:32 pm
Doing a lot of math today too. Feet, inches, square feet. Addition, subtraction. Minimum this and maximum that. Zoning code section 10.5.5.1. Another dozen pages in zoning including the pages on how to measure existing building height and proposed fences on top of retaining walls. Invoicing. Counting pages in a drawing set, figure out why I have more sheets in the set than on the title sheet. Thanks, math. Figuring out how long it's going to take me to finish and when the next deadline can be set for. Looking at my bank account and mentally calculating how it looks a little on the light side for how much I've been working lately.
bowling_ball
Nov 15, 19 6:28 pm
Are you me?
Wilma Buttfit
Nov 16, 19 10:46 am
Don't believe so.
Happy Anarchy
Nov 16, 19 3:37 pm
sorcery math deserves its own post. 34" ADA hinged door.
A 34" hinged door can be ADA compliant. BulgarBlogger your response is a conditioned NYC Examiner response, in other words you're not thinking like an architect, you're thinking like a layman, or like 90% of the people I meet who try to state some FACT about a technical or code item with regard to architecture as if they knew something.
I was a young man once and wondered why the old architect's hemmed and hawed and rambled for hours to give an answer, but I'm old now, only Business Majors and fools think there are binary solutions to architecture problems.
Q1: Please point me to the table that states 2'-10" (34") are not ADA?
A1: Such a table does not exist, rather it clearly indicates in a figure a 2'-8" (32") clearance is required when door is open at 90 degrees.
Q2: What type of hinges?
A2: Soss and Tectus concealed type hinges do not shift the door as much into the clear width when the door is open 90 degrees, so we saved some space there.
Q3: How thick is the door?
A3: At 1 3/4" thick 34" hinged door even with a concealed hinge will most likely not provide a clearance of 32", even without a stop. What if the door was only a 1/2" thick of glass? (of course that is a floor mounted pivot or not, and that will shift the door into the clear space when 90 degrees open)....Anyway, if you're an architect, you would of asked this obvious question and drawn your way out of it.
Q4: How thick is the door jamb stop? Do you even need a door jamb stop?
A4: The door jamb stop runs vertical up the interior side of the jam. With concealed hinges you may not even need one.
In short, not only can a 34" door at 1 1/2" thick with concealed hinges and a 1/4" stop provide a 32" clear width, I've obtained approvals many times with an explanation as shown above with a 3"=1'-0" drawing so no one gets confused.
Math as an architect. 1+1 can be 3 if you can think.
sorcery.
Everyday Architect
Nov 16, 19 4:01 pm
I was going to say something about the thickness of the door and hinge selection, but this post works.
Happy Anarchy
Nov 16, 19 4:23 pm
everyday architect you are.
Non Sequitur
Nov 16, 19 4:58 pm
We’ve done the exact same dance numerous times (although on 36” doors) and it comes down to hinges and panic device but sometimes the AHJ just does not care. We just use 38” everywhere as a default. It’s easier than fighting over a few mm. I’m told to expect changes in 2020 to accommodate mobility scooters tho...
proto
Nov 18, 19 1:26 pm
i will throw in a vote for "math is useful" for those that draw document sets in 2d for surfaces that may move in two planes at once...usually for creating understandable dimensioning systems to be used by the GC
connecting the dots only gets you so far
atelier nobody
Nov 18, 19 1:39 pm
Agreed, but it doesn't involve calculus and only rarely trig, in my experience. If you remember basic arithmetic, the Pythagorean Theorem, and πr², you've got about 99% of all the math I've ever done in architecture.
Gloominati
Nov 18, 19 2:42 pm
Calculus has been more useful to me for business management purposes than for architectural design. If you understand marginal analysis you can use cost and revenue functions to look at your situation objectively and understand the likely outcome of various possible actions or changes. If your university offers "business calculus" in its business school, consider that instead of a course geared toward engineers or math majors.
shellarchitect
Nov 20, 19 3:56 pm
I love this thread - question was correctly answered within 20 minutes. Discussion, including 10 paragraphs from RB, continues for hours
hello,
For practicing architects, how often are you using trig or calculus?
Thanks
0.
Calculus: never first-hand in practice. It's been very occasionally useful to understand it, because our acoustical consultants do use it to evaluate some of our proposed assemblies, and in their reports assessing existing conditions.
Trig: from time to time. Mostly to understand how to model complex volumes and their intersections. If one is working in a firm that never does that sort of thing, then it would be easily possible to never encounter the need for it.
acoustical consultant sounds like an interesting job, I always thought architects did that on their own
If you can draw in CAD there's no need for trig as the answers are all generated by the drawings. That said I still use it when designing on paper/ talking/ having charettes and not drafting.
Calculus... lol. Maybe if you are reading pretentious theoretical architectural texts you will talk about it, but you'll never use it.
The caveat to using CAD to do your math is, you'd better draw it RIGHT to get the right answers - I've seen a lot of sloppy CAD drafting in my career (89.99999999° angles...really?!?), and I've had busts in the field because of it.
Well if the people (or the office) can't draft right there's fuck all chance I'd trust them to do trig.
Calculus in pretentious theoretical texts? Just shows how little you know about calculus. You will find calculus is a requirement in structural design and building physics engineering. As an architect (depending again on the country where you practice) you only need to know the basics of these.
I've never heard of an architect doing anything other than the most rudimentary statics calcs. Curious what kind of projects you work on where you do, or why you aren't collaborating with a trained engineer?
I've used trig once in the last 25 years. I've never understood why calculus is a prereq for so many M.Arch programs - I've never heard of it being used in architecture. I'm not even sure how much engineers actually use it.
Calculus helps me understand the universe, in that way only it might help me be a better architect.
In my day-to-day jobbings I rarely encounter something more complicated than percentages.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpqqjU7u5Yc
HOW DEEP IS YOUR MATH (How. deep. is. your. math.)
This song has been in my head for 2 days straight now.
Math will be very very important, more important then design. You better remember all the additions and subtractions because you will need it to generate balance statements and calculate how much time and money you are spending versus how much money you are making.
benny has a good point - bookkeeping, accounts payable, and especially accounts receivable are skills you will definitely be needing.
is this referring to private practice or is this also applicable to working as an associate.
I've had to do all of the above, as well as making the collection calls myself, as a PM in a large firm.
you need to add fractions in your head when talking to co-workers and project architects - I know people who can mentally add multiple dimensions at once
One word: Zoning
math is super important to count the zillions we make.
how many zillions in a baziilion? I keep forgetting and none of my 14 maids can remember.
New low.
use it all the time:
- Structural Engineering
- Zoning (see above), if you're good Excel or Parametrics (ish) is a method
- Accounting (running a business)
- HVAC design
- Egress routes (simple)
- Proving that a 34" swing door is ADA (32" clear)
- Proving that a 34" swing door is ADA (32" clear)
That's not math... it's sorcery.
btw, accessible doors in my area are now default 38" (965mm)
the new A117 is going to suck
48” standard? Don’t give them ideas.
A 34" Door is NOT ADA compliant. Only a 36" door is truly ADA conmpliant because the clear width is measured between the stop and the face of the door leaf.
Use math all the time. Been working on roof slopes and structural drawings all day which required a little trig. I do a shit load of calculus (basic formulas) for energy modeling and code reqs... plus all the other basic things like scaling old drawings and whatnot. What's more important is getting very comfortable with math because you'll need to eventually deal with occupancy counts, room areas, material take-offs, minimal clearances, material thickness, etc.
btw, I failed most of my HS math class but I excelled once I used it for structure and other basic everyday real world situations.
Doing a lot of math today too. Feet, inches, square feet. Addition, subtraction. Minimum this and maximum that. Zoning code section 10.5.5.1. Another dozen pages in zoning including the pages on how to measure existing building height and proposed fences on top of retaining walls. Invoicing. Counting pages in a drawing set, figure out why I have more sheets in the set than on the title sheet. Thanks, math. Figuring out how long it's going to take me to finish and when the next deadline can be set for. Looking at my bank account and mentally calculating how it looks a little on the light side for how much I've been working lately.
Are you me?
Don't believe so.
sorcery math deserves its own post. 34" ADA hinged door.
A 34" hinged door can be ADA compliant. BulgarBlogger your response is a conditioned NYC Examiner response, in other words you're not thinking like an architect, you're thinking like a layman, or like 90% of the people I meet who try to state some FACT about a technical or code item with regard to architecture as if they knew something.
I was a young man once and wondered why the old architect's hemmed and hawed and rambled for hours to give an answer, but I'm old now, only Business Majors and fools think there are binary solutions to architecture problems.
Q1: Please point me to the table that states 2'-10" (34") are not ADA?
A1: Such a table does not exist, rather it clearly indicates in a figure a 2'-8" (32") clearance is required when door is open at 90 degrees.
Q2: What type of hinges?
A2: Soss and Tectus concealed type hinges do not shift the door as much into the clear width when the door is open 90 degrees, so we saved some space there.
Q3: How thick is the door?
A3: At 1 3/4" thick 34" hinged door even with a concealed hinge will most likely not provide a clearance of 32", even without a stop. What if the door was only a 1/2" thick of glass? (of course that is a floor mounted pivot or not, and that will shift the door into the clear space when 90 degrees open)....Anyway, if you're an architect, you would of asked this obvious question and drawn your way out of it.
Q4: How thick is the door jamb stop? Do you even need a door jamb stop?
A4: The door jamb stop runs vertical up the interior side of the jam. With concealed hinges you may not even need one.
In short, not only can a 34" door at 1 1/2" thick with concealed hinges and a 1/4" stop provide a 32" clear width, I've obtained approvals many times with an explanation as shown above with a 3"=1'-0" drawing so no one gets confused.
Math as an architect. 1+1 can be 3 if you can think.
sorcery.
I was going to say something about the thickness of the door and hinge selection, but this post works.
everyday architect you are.
We’ve done the exact same dance numerous times (although on 36” doors) and it comes down to hinges and panic device but sometimes the AHJ just does not care. We just use 38” everywhere as a default. It’s easier than fighting over a few mm. I’m told to expect changes in 2020 to accommodate mobility scooters tho...
i will throw in a vote for "math is useful" for those that draw document sets in 2d for surfaces that may move in two planes at once...usually for creating understandable dimensioning systems to be used by the GC
connecting the dots only gets you so far
Agreed, but it doesn't involve calculus and only rarely trig, in my experience. If you remember basic arithmetic, the Pythagorean Theorem, and πr², you've got about 99% of all the math I've ever done in architecture.
Calculus has been more useful to me for business management purposes than for architectural design. If you understand marginal analysis you can use cost and revenue functions to look at your situation objectively and understand the likely outcome of various possible actions or changes. If your university offers "business calculus" in its business school, consider that instead of a course geared toward engineers or math majors.
I love this thread - question was correctly answered within 20 minutes. Discussion, including 10 paragraphs from RB, continues for hours