This will be a pretty interesting study for the forensic engineers out there, Damn thing looks like the Murrah building with that whole side collapsing like that. The videos that I've seen don't give much insight either, it just starts to slump and that's it. I'm no engineer, but the steel structure that you can see in a few pictures looks pretty light... A structure with the minimum amount of redundancy built in, and a construction mishap, well, I guess I'll leave it to the professionals.
MDWed
Oct 15, 19 3:59 pm
As a ‘cub’ I was introduced to the concept of a structure “looking light”; that, too, was my first thought upon seeing the initial videos.
MDWed
citizen
Oct 15, 19 2:59 pm
So, all the hard rock was above ground, in this case.
t a z
Oct 18, 19 11:01 am
!
Menona
Oct 19, 19 12:27 pm
I saw a report where someone said, just before the accident, they had lifted a swimming pool onto the roof. The pool looked like a large mass of steel (but could have been concrete). Those steel columns still visible on the top two floors would have been too small to carry that size and type of concentrated localized load. But we'll see.
SneakyPete
Oct 21, 19 1:26 pm
The pool was still up there after the collapse, it's in the post-collapse drone footage.
BulgarBlogger
Oct 19, 19 10:01 pm
It would be interesting to get the followin information:
1) Was there a construction staging plan that was coordinated, reviewed, and "approved" by the Engineer of Record (EOR).
2) Was the shoring reviewed by the EOR?
3) Was the shoring installed per the "approved" shoring submital?
4) Was the Cast-In-Place (CIP) concrete of addequate strength at the time of construction loading?
5) Was was the firm conducting special inspections on the CIP concrete providing competent services?
6) Did the concrete change its properties/strenght between mixing and the pour? Were there whether conditions that contributed to this?
BulgarBlogger
Oct 19, 19 10:17 pm
Forgot to include #7:
Were the loading assumptions correct? Did the GC adequately and clearly communicate what loading was gling to be taking place when abd where to the EOR during the shoring submittal review?
b3tadine[sutures]
Oct 19, 19 11:12 pm
I think you're right on all points. I'm willing to bet the GC and shoring sub didn't read the structural drawings requiring them to get an engineer to approve their shoring and reshoring plans.
t a z
Oct 21, 19 8:32 am
Crane demo newspaper graphic:
OddArchitect
Oct 21, 19 10:40 am
How would you like to be the person that set the charges.
Donna Sink
Oct 22, 19 8:53 am
Chad, this seems like a good opportunity to use a drone, no?
Miles Jaffe
Oct 22, 19 9:26 am
Why not just disassemble the cranes?
OddArchitect
Oct 22, 19 9:32 am
Have to ask them. I have no idea.
liberty bell
Oct 22, 19 11:25 am
I think the structure is too unstable to trust that the cranes won’t collapse while being disassembled, right?
Earlier in the week, officials abandoned an earlier plan to use support cranes to dismantle the unstable tower cranes after determining that plan was unsafe. “The largest crane company in America is here and wouldn’t touch it with their cranes. This is how dangerous these are,” McConnell said Thursday.
The implosion should take place in about nine weeks, Fire Superintendent Tim McConnell said at a news conference Tuesday — though he said the College Football Playoff championship game, scheduled to be played at the Mercedes-Benz Superdome on Jan. 13, could delay it slightly. Three months of cleanup are likely to follow the implosion, McConnell said.
This is a pretty horrible and still precarious incident:
https://www.enr.com/articles/47745-unstable-cranes-crumbling-building-pose-hazard-at-new-orleans-hotel-collapse-site
Whether contractor error or professional negligence, the armchair engineering debate on the internets rages on:
https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=459166
This will be a pretty interesting study for the forensic engineers out there, Damn thing looks like the Murrah building with that whole side collapsing like that. The videos that I've seen don't give much insight either, it just starts to slump and that's it. I'm no engineer, but the steel structure that you can see in a few pictures looks pretty light... A structure with the minimum amount of redundancy built in, and a construction mishap, well, I guess I'll leave it to the professionals.
As a ‘cub’ I was introduced to the concept of a structure “looking light”; that, too, was my first thought upon seeing the initial videos.
MDWed
So, all the hard rock was above ground, in this case.
!
I saw a report where someone said, just before the accident, they had lifted a swimming pool onto the roof. The pool looked like a large mass of steel (but could have been concrete). Those steel columns still visible on the top two floors would have been too small to carry that size and type of concentrated localized load. But we'll see.
The pool was still up there after the collapse, it's in the post-collapse drone footage.
It would be interesting to get the followin information:
1) Was there a construction staging plan that was coordinated, reviewed, and "approved" by the Engineer of Record (EOR).
2) Was the shoring reviewed by the EOR?
3) Was the shoring installed per the "approved" shoring submital?
4) Was the Cast-In-Place (CIP) concrete of addequate strength at the time of construction loading?
5) Was was the firm conducting special inspections on the CIP concrete providing competent services?
6) Did the concrete change its properties/strenght between mixing and the pour? Were there whether conditions that contributed to this?
Forgot to include #7:
Were the loading assumptions correct? Did the GC adequately and clearly communicate what loading was gling to be taking place when abd where to the EOR during the shoring submittal review?
I think you're right on all points. I'm willing to bet the GC and shoring sub didn't read the structural drawings requiring them to get an engineer to approve their shoring and reshoring plans.
Crane demo newspaper graphic:
How would you like to be the person that set the charges.
Chad, this seems like a good opportunity to use a drone, no?
Why not just disassemble the cranes?
Have to ask them. I have no idea.
I think the structure is too unstable to trust that the cranes won’t collapse while being disassembled, right?
https://www.enr.com/articles/47900-controlled-demolition-of-tower-cranes-planned-at-site-of-new-orleans-hotel-collapse
Earlier in the week, officials abandoned an earlier plan to use support cranes to dismantle the unstable tower cranes after determining that plan was unsafe. “The largest crane company in America is here and wouldn’t touch it with their cranes. This is how dangerous these are,” McConnell said Thursday.
https://www.nola.com/news/article_f8eb5d78-0590-11ea-894e-53fa0f93d837.html
The implosion should take place in about nine weeks, Fire Superintendent Tim McConnell said at a news conference Tuesday — though he said the College Football Playoff championship game, scheduled to be played at the Mercedes-Benz Superdome on Jan. 13, could delay it slightly. Three months of cleanup are likely to follow the implosion, McConnell said.