OK yes the headline is intended for clicks. Solid surface ("quartz" counters can absolutely be manufactured safely *if* OSHA requirements are followed. But that means either we will pay more for it (and it already isn't cheaper than natural stone) or it will be manufactured beyond OSHA's reach and people will get sick and die.
Curious about people's knowledge of where quartz sits environmentally: is it better to manufacture stone from (mostly?) organic materials than to dig up the earth's surface in search of elaborate slabs? Is quartz made from waste stone dust already, or are we quarrying specifically to mine the stone we then turn into quartz?
senjohnblutarsky
Oct 3, 19 10:11 am
Ummm... In my world solid surface = Corian. Quartz is quartz.
So, i clicked this to figure out how the hell you could get silicosis from Corian.
Silicosis will be the next mesothelioma. And then there will be something after that. There's always going to be something.
Donna Sink
Oct 3, 19 11:17 am
Wait, I know Corian is a generic term now like Kleenex but do you mean "quartz is quartz" as in the actual crystals dug from the earth and used for their healing powers or something?! I want to work on that kind of project!
Wilma Buttfit
Oct 3, 19 12:09 pm
I toured a building earlier this week that had a window made from actual quartz crystals!
senjohnblutarsky
Oct 3, 19 12:36 pm
No, just separating quartz as a countertop material. Nothing to do with the stone.
atelier nobody
Oct 3, 19 1:51 pm
To avoid this very confusion, CSI retired the terms "quartz surfacing" and "quartz countertop" for "quartz agglomerate..."
senjohnblutarsky
Oct 3, 19 3:23 pm
Specific CSI sections are: Stone Countertops, Cultured Marble Countertops, Solid Surfacing Countertops, and Quartz Agglomerate Countertops. As far as I'm concerned: one of these things is not like the others; one of these things just doesn't belong.
Everyday Architect
Oct 3, 19 4:19 pm
It doesn't belong because you're not understanding/representing CSI's sections and organization correctly ... not to mention missing a bunch of other options. Under 123600 - Countertops (a level 2 number and title) CSI has the following (level 3) sections: Concrete Countertops, Metal Countertops, Wood Countertops, Plastic Countertops, Glass Countertops, Stone Countertops, Laboratory Countertops, Simulated Stone Countertops, and Paper-Composite Countertops. Under Simulated Stone Countertops are where you find (level 4) sections for Cultured Marble Countertops, Solid Surfacing Countertops, and Quartz Agglomerate Countertops.
senjohnblutarsky
Oct 4, 19 8:50 am
Oh, I know the sections. I'm just saying, one is soft plastic. The others are not.
Everyday Architect
Oct 4, 19 11:33 am
Is the "Stone Countertops" section the soft plastic one? 'Cause if I was going to pick out one of those things that isn't like the others, it would have been the natural material vs the man made ones. You know, (real) stone vs. simulated stone.
OddArchitect
Oct 3, 19 10:17 am
We're going to find out in 30 years that all the fluid applied barriers and Polyiso cause something bad . . .
Also I didn't know that Quartz is considered solid surface. Regardless and interesting article. Thank you for posting.
x-jla
Oct 3, 19 10:49 am
A good case for digital fabrication. Wonder if these problems exist in places that use water jet...
Rusty!
Oct 3, 19 11:09 am
Water jet saws are literally how these countertops are cut. It's just poor quality control.
x-jla
Oct 3, 19 12:05 pm
Not all of them. Some places use dry saws. I literally just spoke to a fabrication company to get something cut...they told me that they didn’t have a waterjet...
x-jla
Oct 3, 19 12:06 pm
Working around landscape...I now worry about dust from DG...Wonder if the effects are still dangerous outdoors.
x-jla
Oct 3, 19 12:08 pm
Many companies still use blades and jigs to cut...water jets are very very pricey machines.
x-jla
Oct 3, 19 12:12 pm
Anyway, seems like an easily solvable problem. A good mask and cleaning procedure can solve the problems. OSHA should definitely regulate.
Rusty!
Oct 3, 19 11:08 am
Silica is present in natural stone as well. In very high quantities depending on stone! But it runs at 50% at best compared to up to 95% for "Cultured Marble".
Drywall compound used for patching holes is also 90% silica. Sand it with a wet sponge pls.
This is really what is going on. "Granite Countertop" is something that HGTV has pushed onto new class bourgeois Americans for over a decade+. Anything stone looking is clearly granite. Thus you now have a huge demand for a particular countertop aesthetic. Big manufacturers of these products have always run well ventilated shops. It's the small regional guys who are re-sellers of these products that are really not keeping up. And they only exist because of a massive demand for "Granite Countertops".
Solid Surfacing is a completely different type of material. You are dealing with Aluminum Hydroxide dust. And we don't really know what that does to minimum wage workers in small shops.
Also, none of this is an end user issue. It has to do with worker safety. Making float glass (basically all glass) involves beds of molten tin, yet molten tin deaths are not really a thing. It is a well controlled shop environment. Countertop industry needs to seriously self regulate, since OSHA is doing fuck all.
SneakyPete
Oct 3, 19 11:51 am
Just wait til they find out about the radiation from Granite!
Everyday Architect
Oct 3, 19 11:57 am
shh, no one wants to know about the uranium in their countertops. HGTV tells people they need granite countertops, and we must obey.
Everyday Architect
Oct 3, 19 12:05 pm
I've also heard about at least one condo owner suing their building's developer due to radon. Apparently it was thought to be the granite countertops, then perhaps the fly ash in the concrete. The case was settled outside of court so we'll never know for sure.
Almosthip7
Oct 3, 19 4:22 pm
Radon wins!
Everyday Architect
Oct 3, 19 12:30 pm
As Rusty! touched on ... solid surface material is not the same as quartz (ie. quartz agglomerate). Likewise, cultured marble a different material. They share some similarities, but their compositions are different and should not be confused to be the same. I commonly hear these three materials all being referred to as solid surface material but that is not correct.
Rusty!
Oct 3, 19 12:38 pm
" I commonly hear these three materials all being referred to as solid surface material" Literally a major correction I have to make on any project.
Everyday Architect
Oct 3, 19 2:13 pm
I think our job responsibilities overlap quite a bit. I could be mistaken though.
OK yes the headline is intended for clicks. Solid surface ("quartz" counters can absolutely be manufactured safely *if* OSHA requirements are followed. But that means either we will pay more for it (and it already isn't cheaper than natural stone) or it will be manufactured beyond OSHA's reach and people will get sick and die.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/10/02/766028237/workers-are-falling-ill-even-dying-after-making-kitchen-countertops
Curious about people's knowledge of where quartz sits environmentally: is it better to manufacture stone from (mostly?) organic materials than to dig up the earth's surface in search of elaborate slabs? Is quartz made from waste stone dust already, or are we quarrying specifically to mine the stone we then turn into quartz?
Ummm... In my world solid surface = Corian. Quartz is quartz.
So, i clicked this to figure out how the hell you could get silicosis from Corian.
Silicosis will be the next mesothelioma. And then there will be something after that. There's always going to be something.
Wait, I know Corian is a generic term now like Kleenex but do you mean "quartz is quartz" as in the actual crystals dug from the earth and used for their healing powers or something?! I want to work on that kind of project!
I toured a building earlier this week that had a window made from actual quartz crystals!
No, just separating quartz as a countertop material. Nothing to do with the stone.
To avoid this very confusion, CSI retired the terms "quartz surfacing" and "quartz countertop" for "quartz agglomerate..."
Specific CSI sections are: Stone Countertops, Cultured Marble Countertops, Solid Surfacing Countertops, and Quartz Agglomerate Countertops. As far as I'm concerned: one of these things is not like the others; one of these things just doesn't belong.
It doesn't belong because you're not understanding/representing CSI's sections and organization correctly ... not to mention missing a bunch of other options. Under 123600 - Countertops (a level 2 number and title) CSI has the following (level 3) sections: Concrete Countertops, Metal Countertops, Wood Countertops, Plastic Countertops, Glass Countertops, Stone Countertops, Laboratory Countertops, Simulated Stone Countertops, and Paper-Composite Countertops. Under Simulated Stone Countertops are where you find (level 4) sections for Cultured Marble Countertops, Solid Surfacing Countertops, and Quartz Agglomerate Countertops.
Oh, I know the sections. I'm just saying, one is soft plastic. The others are not.
Is the "Stone Countertops" section the soft plastic one? 'Cause if I was going to pick out one of those things that isn't like the others, it would have been the natural material vs the man made ones. You know, (real) stone vs. simulated stone.
We're going to find out in 30 years that all the fluid applied barriers and Polyiso cause something bad . . .
Also I didn't know that Quartz is considered solid surface. Regardless and interesting article. Thank you for posting.
A good case for digital fabrication. Wonder if these problems exist in places that use water jet...
Water jet saws are literally how these countertops are cut. It's just poor quality control.
Not all of them. Some places use dry saws. I literally just spoke to a fabrication company to get something cut...they told me that they didn’t have a waterjet...
Working around landscape...I now worry about dust from DG...Wonder if the effects are still dangerous outdoors.
Many companies still use blades and jigs to cut...water jets are very very pricey machines.
Anyway, seems like an easily solvable problem. A good mask and cleaning procedure can solve the problems. OSHA should definitely regulate.
Silica is present in natural stone as well. In very high quantities depending on stone! But it runs at 50% at best compared to up to 95% for "Cultured Marble".
Drywall compound used for patching holes is also 90% silica. Sand it with a wet sponge pls.
This is really what is going on. "Granite Countertop" is something that HGTV has pushed onto new class bourgeois Americans for over a decade+. Anything stone looking is clearly granite. Thus you now have a huge demand for a particular countertop aesthetic. Big manufacturers of these products have always run well ventilated shops. It's the small regional guys who are re-sellers of these products that are really not keeping up. And they only exist because of a massive demand for "Granite Countertops".
Solid Surfacing is a completely different type of material. You are dealing with Aluminum Hydroxide dust. And we don't really know what that does to minimum wage workers in small shops.
Also, none of this is an end user issue. It has to do with worker safety. Making float glass (basically all glass) involves beds of molten tin, yet molten tin deaths are not really a thing. It is a well controlled shop environment. Countertop industry needs to seriously self regulate, since OSHA is doing fuck all.
Just wait til they find out about the radiation from Granite!
shh, no one wants to know about the uranium in their countertops. HGTV tells people they need granite countertops, and we must obey.
I've also heard about at least one condo owner suing their building's developer due to radon. Apparently it was thought to be the granite countertops, then perhaps the fly ash in the concrete. The case was settled outside of court so we'll never know for sure.
Radon wins!
As Rusty! touched on ... solid surface material is not the same as quartz (ie. quartz agglomerate). Likewise, cultured marble a different material. They share some similarities, but their compositions are different and should not be confused to be the same. I commonly hear these three materials all being referred to as solid surface material but that is not correct.
" I commonly hear these three materials all being referred to as solid surface material" Literally a major correction I have to make on any project.
I think our job responsibilities overlap quite a bit. I could be mistaken though.
Ditto