I am primarily dealing with residential work at the moment and I am experiencing many hard aches dealing with home owner clients, the emotional roller coaster, indecisive clients making numerous revisions and then having a hard time charging again for these changes. All in all its not that great of an experience. That being said I have many happy clients and plenty of smooth jobs but residential in general seems to be a lot of work without proper compensation. My developer clients are much much easier and rewarding to deal with as we make decisions quick, get paid quick and all is well. I am a sole architect at the moment and have only been on my own for about a year or so. I am realizing commercial work seems to eliminate a lot of the back and fourth and emotions tied to a home. I am trying to transition into more commercial work. I was hoping some of you with more experience in these sectors can shed some light / suggestions. At this point in time, paying the bills in most important. Thanks in advance!
Non Sequitur
Jul 3, 19 9:21 am
Our office only dabbles, very rarely, in residential work... and when we do, it's mostly as a favour (ie. at a loss) to our bigger commercial developer clients. Repeat commercial clients are the best since your schedule is tied to their tenants and lease obligations. They understand that we're a business just like they are and shit gets done efficiently and on time. The flip side is this will often lead to lesser projects and mediocre base-building fit-up work but then you're the first one to get the call when they need something new and shiny. We have one such client with whom I do all industrial and most retail work with the occasional office tower.
poop876
Jul 3, 19 10:58 am
Same here. Most of our house projects are for repeat and bigger clients. If we have a client that wants us to do it, I typically go through the office and ask some of the staff if they want to do it as a side project since we all know, most of those a projects are typically done at a 'loss' for the firm.
bowling_ball
Jul 3, 19 12:05 pm
Same exactly for my firm. I never thought I'd like to work with developers, but they tend to make decisions quickly and pay on time.
thisisnotmyname
Jul 3, 19 10:36 am
If you have a path into commercial work, walk away as quickly as possible from residential. In our experience, the fees seldom cover the cost of doing the work.
Wilma Buttfit
Jul 3, 19 12:27 pm
My experience in residential is that clients decide what they want about the same time the architect is finished which is about 6 weeks after the contractor has already started which is about 4 months before the permit is actually pulled and then the interior designer will come in during construction (after structure is framed of course) and demand changes to accommodate some artwork or a lamp they found and just can't let go of and don't get why it's a too late to be redesigning so they tell the client that the architect and is just getting in the way and doesn't have their interests in mind and then the owner becomes passive aggressive with the architect and starts questioning everything with hostility. Then you get fired for not answering your phone at 9 am on Saturday morning because the client is shopping for tile/light fixtures/granite and they need you NOW! And then you can breathe.
Wilma Buttfit
Jul 3, 19 1:03 pm
Also, you'll get up to 8 leads in a single day. About one of those a week will lead to something but it will be small like a schematic plan. Which the client will love but you will never hear from them again. Then another prospective client will throw down a set of purchased plans and ask for "that." So you get to work.
Wilma Buttfit
Jul 3, 19 1:14 pm
Need to comb the other way... Meanwhile commercial client says it looks fantastic, you are so talented and they can't believe how creative you are. They tell you how grateful they are for everything you've done. They unanimously approve the design with no changes and give you payment that day. You finish the documents, a permit is obtained, and the contractor builds it... per plans.
Wilma Buttfit
Jul 3, 19 1:24 pm
In other words, what they said above that it often is a losing deal and wrought with emotionally charged decisions.
whistler
Jul 3, 19 12:52 pm
Transitioning away from SF Residential projects, only one or two in the office at a time. Really not that interested in the frustration / handholding / indecision that comes with a high end home.....and emotional clients.
Wilma Buttfit
Jul 3, 19 1:33 pm
Residential client: We spent $75,000 on light fixtures and unfortunately don't have any money left to pay you to draw the plans. How about a freebie? I can't wait to get started!
Commercial client: You want some $$$ upfront to get you started?
mightyaa
Jul 3, 19 4:11 pm
Architectural hierarchy is those jobs that tend to pay the most are the least rewarding to work on and visa-versa.. The oddballs are residential and churches which rarely are financially or emotionally rewarding.
x-jla
Jul 3, 19 4:36 pm
I only do residential. Less people to deal with, but much more dealing with people.
curtkram
Jul 3, 19 5:38 pm
in most commercial your client wants to be successful so they're less emotionally invested.
MDH-ARCH
Jul 6, 19 11:35 am
Thanks for the feedback! This has helped confirm my hunch. Everything mentioned definitely resonates.
That being said, what is the best way to transition into commercial? how to get those leads? Residential is easy because of the volume, everyone in the suburbs has a house, word of mouth travels fast. Commercial seems tougher to get connections. Thanks again!
x-jla
Jul 6, 19 12:20 pm
Everyone may have a house, but not everyone wants to hire an architect. Most remodels are handled by design/build firms. They gobble up 99% of the projects (rough guesstimate). To be successful in residential, you need to find that 1% which isn’t so easy.
x-jla
Jul 6, 19 12:26 pm
That said, easiest way to get started is to market to contractors, developers, etc. From there, word of mouth should kick in after a couple years.
thisisnotmyname
Jul 6, 19 4:23 pm
Try to connect with commercial contractors. A lot of commercial clients call up contractors before they even think about getting an architect. If you have connections with architects at really big or fancy firms, ask about them referring you some of the projects that are too small or unglamorous for them.
x-jla
Jul 6, 19 5:07 pm
I got the question backwards lol. Too much booze these past couple days :)
I am primarily dealing with residential work at the moment and I am experiencing many hard aches dealing with home owner clients, the emotional roller coaster, indecisive clients making numerous revisions and then having a hard time charging again for these changes. All in all its not that great of an experience. That being said I have many happy clients and plenty of smooth jobs but residential in general seems to be a lot of work without proper compensation. My developer clients are much much easier and rewarding to deal with as we make decisions quick, get paid quick and all is well. I am a sole architect at the moment and have only been on my own for about a year or so. I am realizing commercial work seems to eliminate a lot of the back and fourth and emotions tied to a home. I am trying to transition into more commercial work. I was hoping some of you with more experience in these sectors can shed some light / suggestions. At this point in time, paying the bills in most important. Thanks in advance!
Our office only dabbles, very rarely, in residential work... and when we do, it's mostly as a favour (ie. at a loss) to our bigger commercial developer clients. Repeat commercial clients are the best since your schedule is tied to their tenants and lease obligations. They understand that we're a business just like they are and shit gets done efficiently and on time. The flip side is this will often lead to lesser projects and mediocre base-building fit-up work but then you're the first one to get the call when they need something new and shiny. We have one such client with whom I do all industrial and most retail work with the occasional office tower.
Same here. Most of our house projects are for repeat and bigger clients. If we have a client that wants us to do it, I typically go through the office and ask some of the staff if they want to do it as a side project since we all know, most of those a projects are typically done at a 'loss' for the firm.
Same exactly for my firm. I never thought I'd like to work with developers, but they tend to make decisions quickly and pay on time.
If you have a path into commercial work, walk away as quickly as possible from residential. In our experience, the fees seldom cover the cost of doing the work.
My experience in residential is that clients decide what they want about the same time the architect is finished which is about 6 weeks after the contractor has already started which is about 4 months before the permit is actually pulled and then the interior designer will come in during construction (after structure is framed of course) and demand changes to accommodate some artwork or a lamp they found and just can't let go of and don't get why it's a too late to be redesigning so they tell the client that the architect and is just getting in the way and doesn't have their interests in mind and then the owner becomes passive aggressive with the architect and starts questioning everything with hostility. Then you get fired for not answering your phone at 9 am on Saturday morning because the client is shopping for tile/light fixtures/granite and they need you NOW! And then you can breathe.
Also, you'll get up to 8 leads in a single day. About one of those a week will lead to something but it will be small like a schematic plan. Which the client will love but you will never hear from them again. Then another prospective client will throw down a set of purchased plans and ask for "that." So you get to work.
Need to comb the other way... Meanwhile commercial client says it looks fantastic, you are so talented and they can't believe how creative you are. They tell you how grateful they are for everything you've done. They unanimously approve the design with no changes and give you payment that day. You finish the documents, a permit is obtained, and the contractor builds it... per plans.
In other words, what they said above that it often is a losing deal and wrought with emotionally charged decisions.
Transitioning away from SF Residential projects, only one or two in the office at a time. Really not that interested in the frustration / handholding / indecision that comes with a high end home.....and emotional clients.
Residential client: We spent $75,000 on light fixtures and unfortunately don't have any money left to pay you to draw the plans. How about a freebie? I can't wait to get started!
Commercial client: You want some $$$ upfront to get you started?
Architectural hierarchy is those jobs that tend to pay the most are the least rewarding to work on and visa-versa.. The oddballs are residential and churches which rarely are financially or emotionally rewarding.
I only do residential. Less people to deal with, but much more dealing with people.
in most commercial your client wants to be successful so they're less emotionally invested.
Thanks for the feedback! This has helped confirm my hunch. Everything mentioned definitely resonates.
That being said, what is the best way to transition into commercial? how to get those leads? Residential is easy because of the volume, everyone in the suburbs has a house, word of mouth travels fast. Commercial seems tougher to get connections. Thanks again!
Everyone may have a house, but not everyone wants to hire an architect. Most remodels are handled by design/build firms. They gobble up 99% of the projects (rough guesstimate). To be successful in residential, you need to find that 1% which isn’t so easy.
That said, easiest way to get started is to market to contractors, developers, etc. From there, word of mouth should kick in after a couple years.
Try to connect with commercial contractors. A lot of commercial clients call up contractors before they even think about getting an architect. If you have connections with architects at really big or fancy firms, ask about them referring you some of the projects that are too small or unglamorous for them.
I got the question backwards lol. Too much booze these past couple days :)