I am currently in the first year of my B.S. in architecture program. Our program requires that we take calculus -- and I am currently taking a prerequisite of calculus: trigonometry. I understand and appreciate the architectural side to trig -- angle measures, side lengths, etc. -- but some of the trigonometric identities and proofs seem to have no relevance to architecture. Because of this lack of interest, a poorly rated math professor, a strict grading system, trying to keep up with studio, and trying to work about 15 hours a week at a local architecture firm (plus other college and personal commitments), I hope to end this class with (at least) a C grade. This is obviously not ideal, but I'm curious: how much does a class like undergraduate Trigonometry matter to firms when finding employment later on? If this class happens to tank my GPA, how much of a negative effect will that have on the start of my career?
tduds
Apr 4, 19 12:09 pm
Unless your GPA is abysmal, it's not going to matter. Even with graduate admissions, your portfolio + references carry so much more weight than your GPA / GRE. Keep your marks up in your core subjects and it'll average out.
I graduated with one F and a couple D's and literally no one cares.
eeayeeayo
Apr 4, 19 12:18 pm
Second that. I got literally every grade it's possible to get, at least once each, and it affected absolutely nothing. I've never listed GPA on my resume and was never once asked for it. I got accepted to several highly-ranked M.Arch programs, with merit-based scholarships. I attended one of them, failed a course there and squeaked by in a few others, graduated anyway - with an award for academic excellence no less (I guess I wasn't the only one of my classmates who ever failed something), and... most of this never mattered to any employer. Some employers did care about where my degrees came from. Some didn't. Nobody ever asks about grades.
David Bruce Lee
Apr 4, 19 12:21 pm
what year did you attend grad school? my impression is that GPAs are significant in getting to grad programs
Non Sequitur
Apr 4, 19 12:23 pm
David, gpa for grad school application often ignore the lowest grades if you have surplus credits. In my case, I had 2 Ds and one C, and some Bs, mostly from first-year and in non core classes, that vanished because I did significantly better in other electives.
David Bruce Lee
Apr 4, 19 12:35 pm
surplus credits? "In my case, I had 2 Ds and one C, and some Bs, mostly from first-year and in non core classes, that vanished because I did significantly better in other electives." i'm wondering if this is still the case now though, there seems to be much more emphasis on GPA in general in academia 'these days'
Non Sequitur
Apr 4, 19 12:49 pm
I had a shit-tonne of surplus credits during my undergrad degree and when I applied to grad school (2006-2007), my total gpa took into consideration only the core classes (studios, Arch History, P.eng) and a minimum amount of electives. I think I had 5 or 6 courses, including some with B+ that got left out of my formal transcript.
I knew this was going to happen so I ended up overloading one semester and re-did one 1st year core history class. Turned a mediocre B into an A+.
Fivescore
Apr 4, 19 1:37 pm
NS I think that "vanishing" of extra electives might be a Canadian thing. I worked in my (US) university's Records Office in college and when we'd get requests to "vanish" courses from transcripts we had a script from the university's legal team stating that's illegal and we had to leave all grades and course visible. We could vanish a grade only if the exact same course had been retaken and passed with a higher grade. Also if the person did a dual-degree program then we were allowed to create a transcript that only included courses that applied to one degree or the other, if requested. But other than those exceptions we had to print everything.
This seems a little like people believing that if they retake the GREs then the grad programs will only see their 2nd set of scores. All scores and grades get included (from US institutions anyway), and the grad programs have varying policies about what counts in their admissions process.
David Bruce Lee
Apr 4, 19 1:40 pm
very interesting! cheers to
both for the info
Non Sequitur
Apr 4, 19 1:49 pm
Fascinating ThreeS. This reminds me of the secret negative scoring bell-curve we were given when considering undergrad applicants. Some schools were known to inflate grades (or have easier courseloads) so we were instructed by the university to downgrade their admission accordingly. Sometimes by a whopping %25
Non Sequitur
Apr 4, 19 12:20 pm
Grades only matter if you're near the minimum CGPA for grad school admission... no one cares about grades in the working (ie. real) world.
But you should really not just dismiss math because you lack interest. I'm constantly having to explain very basic algebra and calculus stuff to the junior staff here. This shit is important enough to care.
David Bruce Lee
Apr 4, 19 12:22 pm
firms won't care at all. From what i understand, grad programs will (depends on the university). so if you're doing grad school, i'd try to keep the GPA up. especially if there's a chance you'll do a master's in something outside of architecture, where the portfolio matters less and the numbers matter more.
whistler
Apr 4, 19 12:31 pm
No one cares about grades, just portfolio, work experience and skills. Some large firms might only care if you can "make it rain" too. i.e. if you can bring in jobs because of your network, or connections your worth more to the firm than any draftsman / CAD Monkey / designer in the office!
I am currently in the first year of my B.S. in architecture program. Our program requires that we take calculus -- and I am currently taking a prerequisite of calculus: trigonometry. I understand and appreciate the architectural side to trig -- angle measures, side lengths, etc. -- but some of the trigonometric identities and proofs seem to have no relevance to architecture. Because of this lack of interest, a poorly rated math professor, a strict grading system, trying to keep up with studio, and trying to work about 15 hours a week at a local architecture firm (plus other college and personal commitments), I hope to end this class with (at least) a C grade. This is obviously not ideal, but I'm curious: how much does a class like undergraduate Trigonometry matter to firms when finding employment later on? If this class happens to tank my GPA, how much of a negative effect will that have on the start of my career?
Unless your GPA is abysmal, it's not going to matter. Even with graduate admissions, your portfolio + references carry so much more weight than your GPA / GRE. Keep your marks up in your core subjects and it'll average out.
I graduated with one F and a couple D's and literally no one cares.
Second that. I got literally every grade it's possible to get, at least once each, and it affected absolutely nothing. I've never listed GPA on my resume and was never once asked for it. I got accepted to several highly-ranked M.Arch programs, with merit-based scholarships. I attended one of them, failed a course there and squeaked by in a few others, graduated anyway - with an award for academic excellence no less (I guess I wasn't the only one of my classmates who ever failed something), and... most of this never mattered to any employer. Some employers did care about where my degrees came from. Some didn't. Nobody ever asks about grades.
what year did you attend grad school? my impression is that GPAs are significant in getting to grad programs
David, gpa for grad school application often ignore the lowest grades if you have surplus credits. In my case, I had 2 Ds and one C, and some Bs, mostly from first-year and in non core classes, that vanished because I did significantly better in other electives.
surplus credits? "In my case, I had 2 Ds and one C, and some Bs, mostly from first-year and in non core classes, that vanished because I did significantly better in other electives." i'm wondering if this is still the case now though, there seems to be much more emphasis on GPA in general in academia 'these days'
I had a shit-tonne of surplus credits during my undergrad degree and when I applied to grad school (2006-2007), my total gpa took into consideration only the core classes (studios, Arch History, P.eng) and a minimum amount of electives. I think I had 5 or 6 courses, including some with B+ that got left out of my formal transcript.
I knew this was going to happen so I ended up overloading one semester and re-did one 1st year core history class. Turned a mediocre B into an A+.
NS I think that "vanishing" of extra electives might be a Canadian thing. I worked in my (US) university's Records Office in college and when we'd get requests to "vanish" courses from transcripts we had a script from the university's legal team stating that's illegal and we had to leave all grades and course visible. We could vanish a grade only if the exact same course had been retaken and passed with a higher grade. Also if the person did a dual-degree program then we were allowed to create a transcript that only included courses that applied to one degree or the other, if requested. But other than those exceptions we had to print everything.
This seems a little like people believing that if they retake the GREs then the grad programs will only see their 2nd set of scores. All scores and grades get included (from US institutions anyway), and the grad programs have varying policies about what counts in their admissions process.
very interesting! cheers to both for the info
Fascinating ThreeS. This reminds me of the secret negative scoring bell-curve we were given when considering undergrad applicants. Some schools were known to inflate grades (or have easier courseloads) so we were instructed by the university to downgrade their admission accordingly. Sometimes by a whopping %25
Grades only matter if you're near the minimum CGPA for grad school admission... no one cares about grades in the working (ie. real) world.
But you should really not just dismiss math because you lack interest. I'm constantly having to explain very basic algebra and calculus stuff to the junior staff here. This shit is important enough to care.
firms won't care at all. From what i understand, grad programs will (depends on the university). so if you're doing grad school, i'd try to keep the GPA up. especially if there's a chance you'll do a master's in something outside of architecture, where the portfolio matters less and the numbers matter more.
No one cares about grades, just portfolio, work experience and skills. Some large firms might only care if you can "make it rain" too. i.e. if you can bring in jobs because of your network, or connections your worth more to the firm than any draftsman / CAD Monkey / designer in the office!