I work as a designer and drafting technician for a hotel design firm and we are designing our first Podium Building. We hired another architecture firm to help us with the design but they can't seem to give us a straight answer on what the fire code will require when it comes to a few outlying structures.
It will be a 5 store building with the first floor constructed using metal stud framing, steel column and beam structure, with a hollow core concrete slab floor ceiling assembly with 4 stories, wood framing structure above this podium. The issue is that the lobby and pool room are outside of the 5 story footprint.
We believe that we will need more fire protection then just going from the hollow core planks to 1-hr rated steel truss system and metal deck, but the other firm claims that additional fire protection isn't required. The wood framing is on the exterior edge of the planks/slabs and at this time the plan is to have the outlying roof deck to be below or against the concrete plank/slabs and not above where the wood structure is.
The way I'm reading the code book we would need a 1-hour rating at least one story up, but we don't want to put GWB on the exterior of the building, so I assume we need to carry the 3-hour protection out away from the wood framing above.
Anyone have experience with this type of construction and can comment on what we would need to do and where you find the code covering that choice? Thank you for your help and time.
mightyaa
Feb 25, 19 7:04 pm
Normally... Podium is a Type I structure. 3-hr rating. It creates a fire wall which in essence acts like a property line and splits the building into two buildings. So you can have a Type 1 for the first floor and subgrade garage. 2nd on up can be a different Type construction; lots of pro's/con's depending on what you are trying to do (how big, etc.).
What you basically described would most likely be entirely a Type III... It can be done; you'll have to separate uses with a lot of fire partitions. Stories Table 504.4 Code will give you the height;Table 504.3. Lobby, restaurant, meeting rooms, storage, etc. tends to break apart plans really fast when they have to be separated; or just try to call them all assembly and shoot for non-separated between them and just the 1-hr to the residential.
Article on how to use the podium correctly taking advantage...
Basically, you can skin the cat a number of ways. But Type V stick framing will generally be the most cost effective when you can use it; Residential (includes hotels) works well because you have short spans; hence generally less expensive structure. So you do podium where you need long spans like your banquet rooms, lobby, etc. Then change to stick framing at the room levels.
Non Sequitur
Feb 25, 19 7:06 pm
i Doubt your client is paying your office to crowd source solutions.
archinine
Feb 25, 19 7:49 pm
My goodness, sounds as though you’re in desperate need of an experienced architect to take on the tasks and liability of this project. Maybe ask one of the licensed/senior people in your office rather than rely on random internet people who may or may not have any architectural experience...cue you know who
randomised
Feb 26, 19 4:06 am
So, if anyone here is giving you the wrong advice and the place goes up in flames, would you sue archinect or that particular archinector ;-)
My 2 cents:
You're in way over your head, just hire a professional.
Walhabie
Feb 26, 19 9:02 am
Thanks mightyaa.
And thanks for making it clear, the rest of you, I came to the wrong place. I'm not going to sue anyone here if you give the wrong advice. No, my company isn't paying me to group source this... I am just curious and want to ensure my company is getting the correct information before we get too far down the wrong track. We hired/brought in another architect but as they are dragging their feet and can't clearing explain why we don't need fire ratings on the outlying structures, not under the podium, to be 3-hr rated I'd thought I'd ask the advice of others.
I apologize I offended so many of you. And again, thank you mightyaa, you have giving me some more places I can look at verify what we are being told.
randomised
Feb 26, 19 9:13 am
For the record, not offended over here nor afraid of getting sued. Didn't see my smiley?
mightyaa
Feb 26, 19 12:33 pm
Also, for the pool room and pool if attached and at the ground level, you'll want to look at separation requirements for the fire partition (parapet or horizontal ratings). I've done penthouse pools... you'll be a whole different beast if that is your case since you'll have to protect the supporting structure all the way down. You might pick up the IBC with code commentary; it helps explain the intent of each requirement.
mightyaa
Feb 26, 19 12:35 pm
Oh, and just helping out since I've designed a few hotels and apartments (which are basically the same from a code standpoint other than additional signage and accessory use spaces)
Walhabie
Feb 26, 19 5:17 pm
Thanks again mightyaa. Been designing 14 years and have done a good amount of buildings with fire-walls and even several apartments with podium decks to house vehicle parking. But all of those had concrete or 3-hour exterior walls with no structure of a different construction (in this case metal studs) protruding from the podium structure. I could probably just wait and verify what the Architect contractor gives us, but I'm very curious to know the answer and also want to understand the Code reasons behind it.
Zbig
Feb 26, 19 12:47 pm
The Wood Products Council www.woodworks.org provides free project support. Since you are doing the upper floors in wood, they might be able to help you. Contact the support architect that is in charge of your area.
Hello,
I work as a designer and drafting technician for a hotel design firm and we are designing our first Podium Building. We hired another architecture firm to help us with the design but they can't seem to give us a straight answer on what the fire code will require when it comes to a few outlying structures.
It will be a 5 store building with the first floor constructed using metal stud framing, steel column and beam structure, with a hollow core concrete slab floor ceiling assembly with 4 stories, wood framing structure above this podium. The issue is that the lobby and pool room are outside of the 5 story footprint.
We believe that we will need more fire protection then just going from the hollow core planks to 1-hr rated steel truss system and metal deck, but the other firm claims that additional fire protection isn't required. The wood framing is on the exterior edge of the planks/slabs and at this time the plan is to have the outlying roof deck to be below or against the concrete plank/slabs and not above where the wood structure is.
The way I'm reading the code book we would need a 1-hour rating at least one story up, but we don't want to put GWB on the exterior of the building, so I assume we need to carry the 3-hour protection out away from the wood framing above.
Anyone have experience with this type of construction and can comment on what we would need to do and where you find the code covering that choice? Thank you for your help and time.
Normally... Podium is a Type I structure. 3-hr rating. It creates a fire wall which in essence acts like a property line and splits the building into two buildings. So you can have a Type 1 for the first floor and subgrade garage. 2nd on up can be a different Type construction; lots of pro's/con's depending on what you are trying to do (how big, etc.).
What you basically described would most likely be entirely a Type III... It can be done; you'll have to separate uses with a lot of fire partitions. Stories Table 504.4 Code will give you the height;Table 504.3. Lobby, restaurant, meeting rooms, storage, etc. tends to break apart plans really fast when they have to be separated; or just try to call them all assembly and shoot for non-separated between them and just the 1-hr to the residential.
Article on how to use the podium correctly taking advantage...
http://www.woodworks.org/exper...
Basically, you can skin the cat a number of ways. But Type V stick framing will generally be the most cost effective when you can use it; Residential (includes hotels) works well because you have short spans; hence generally less expensive structure. So you do podium where you need long spans like your banquet rooms, lobby, etc. Then change to stick framing at the room levels.
i Doubt your client is paying your office to crowd source solutions.
My goodness, sounds as though you’re in desperate need of an experienced architect to take on the tasks and liability of this project. Maybe ask one of the licensed/senior people in your office rather than rely on random internet people who may or may not have any architectural experience...cue you know who
So, if anyone here is giving you the wrong advice and the place goes up in flames, would you sue archinect or that particular archinector ;-)
My 2 cents:
You're in way over your head, just hire a professional.
Thanks mightyaa.
And thanks for making it clear, the rest of you, I came to the wrong place. I'm not going to sue anyone here if you give the wrong advice. No, my company isn't paying me to group source this... I am just curious and want to ensure my company is getting the correct information before we get too far down the wrong track. We hired/brought in another architect but as they are dragging their feet and can't clearing explain why we don't need fire ratings on the outlying structures, not under the podium, to be 3-hr rated I'd thought I'd ask the advice of others.
I apologize I offended so many of you. And again, thank you mightyaa, you have giving me some more places I can look at verify what we are being told.
For the record, not offended over here nor afraid of getting sued. Didn't see my smiley?
Also, for the pool room and pool if attached and at the ground level, you'll want to look at separation requirements for the fire partition (parapet or horizontal ratings). I've done penthouse pools... you'll be a whole different beast if that is your case since you'll have to protect the supporting structure all the way down. You might pick up the IBC with code commentary; it helps explain the intent of each requirement.
Oh, and just helping out since I've designed a few hotels and apartments (which are basically the same from a code standpoint other than additional signage and accessory use spaces)
Thanks again mightyaa. Been designing 14 years and have done a good amount of buildings with fire-walls and even several apartments with podium decks to house vehicle parking. But all of those had concrete or 3-hour exterior walls with no structure of a different construction (in this case metal studs) protruding from the podium structure. I could probably just wait and verify what the Architect contractor gives us, but I'm very curious to know the answer and also want to understand the Code reasons behind it.
The Wood Products Council www.woodworks.org provides free project support. Since you are doing the upper floors in wood, they might be able to help you. Contact the support architect that is in charge of your area.
Thanks Zbig