There is an upcoming lecture at Penn, titled Landscape Architecture for Architects.
It is being given by the director of landscape architecture at at a large design firm, who is in fact not trained in landscape architecture, or architecture, or any field of design.
We once worked with this person, and were surprised to discover these facts. Given the lack of required experience, this person does not qualify, and will never qualify as a professional practitioner in any design field.
Is it problematic that someone like this is lecturing in professional schools of design?
Has anyone encountered what seems to be false representation of professional disciplines?
citizen
Jan 24, 19 4:30 pm
If their little bio on the lecture poster misidentifies them as registered, that's a potential problem. If not, anyone is allowed to talk about anything, strictly speaking. Lots of designers give ponderous, often meaningless lectures about "architecture." We may resist, heckle, or complain. But it happens all the time.
thisisnotmyname
Jan 24, 19 4:59 pm
Did the person claim to have certain academic degrees or a professional license when they, in fact, did not? That would be grounds to rescind the invitation and cancel the lecture.
A lot of unlicensed people without formal training work in design fields and don't fraudulently claim false credentials, but they don't go out of their way to admit their status either. Do they know their stuff? Sometimes. It sounds like the big firm that employs this person thinks so.
Whatever the case is, whoever introduces the speaker should mention the persons academic background, or lack thereof, at the beginning of the lecture.
It's ironic that an apparently successful practitioner with no academic design training is speaking at a prestigious and expensive university design school.
JLC-1
Jan 24, 19 5:34 pm
from what I can see, this person has design degrees from outside the US, is that your issue?
montaigne
Jan 24, 19 7:08 pm
foreign design degrees are great. Actually this person doesn’t have any professional design degrees
So the question is really whether that’s something to be concerned about as a group of professionals, or not?
When does it become Fyre Festival-esque?
Non Sequitur
Jan 24, 19 7:18 pm
I see no issues. Maybe the students will learn something practical about the working world.
citizen
Jan 24, 19 7:32 pm
So, no degrees or certifications. Here's a more relevant question: Does this person know anything about landscape architecture?
Miles Jaffe
Jan 24, 19 9:24 pm
They should have gotten Kanye West.
randomised
Jan 25, 19 3:35 am
It's just a freakin' lecture. It is like presenting work your employees produce., as long as the lecture is interesting :) One of the principals of a landscape architecture firm here in town is actually a philosopher...no design background at all. Do managers need to know what the people do they're managing? Might be refreshing to listen to a lecture about (landscape) architecture without all the archispeak.
JLC-1
Jan 25, 19 10:11 am
I would say you should be prepared to back your claims in court if this person,(it's not hard to find who it is) finds this posts and decides to sue you for libel.
As rando says, it's just a lecture, anybody can speak of what they know, but you can't go around badmouthing someone just because you have a personal problem with it.
Last, do you think this "Large Design Firm" would hire and make associate of someone who's not qualified to do the job or to represent them?
montaigne
Jan 27, 19 8:05 pm
you seem pretty confident. and pretty unaware of law, btw.
Volunteer
Jan 25, 19 10:18 am
Kind of like Ando, FLW, or Pawson giving a lecture on architecture. The nerve! I am sure there is nothing to be learned there. Shoot the poser!
Bloopox
Jan 25, 19 10:50 am
This person does have three degrees related to landscape and design, and about 8 years of related experience. You seem uncomfortable with the lack of an LAAB or NAAB accredited degree or something equivalent. I'd keep in mind that they are experienced in the field, they lead the landscape department at a widely respected firm, they aren't claiming any particular license or certification, and the state in which they work doesn't even require an accredited degree for licensing, nor do most US states - and this person doesn't appear to be using any regulated terms in describing their work or their position in that firm.
If you feel strongly that guest lecturers should have accredited professional degrees I suppose you could voice that to the university department's lecture committee. Obviously you can also choose not to attend the lecture.
Personally I don't see it as problematic - it's a person lecturing about their experience, in a field in which they do in fact have experience and education. Getting too hung up on accreditations and titles will drive you crazy as you get into your career - you'll encounter many, many people who didn't get to their positions via accredited professional degree programs. Many are nonetheless experts in their fields.
Finjohn
Jan 25, 19 1:57 pm
"Has anyone encountered what seems to be false representation of professional disciplines?"
Yes, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez as a member of Congress.
JLC-1
Jan 25, 19 2:29 pm
oh, so good to see your butt is hurt! did you watch agent orange speech about "powerful fences"? LOL.
Finjohn
Jan 25, 19 2:41 pm
No, not hurt at all. Very happy actually.
JLC-1
Jan 25, 19 2:56 pm
sure jan.
SneakyPete
Jan 25, 19 3:05 pm
So you're suggesting that she wasn't elected? Because that's the only qualification to be in her position unless she's too young or not a citizen. Perhaps you're just a jerk. I'm going with jerk
.
Finjohn
Jan 25, 19 6:45 pm
Point is she obviously isn't qualified. Name calling is so predictable. Must call anyone who thinks differently names. Very mature.
SneakyPete
Jan 26, 19 1:45 pm
To accept that you simply "think differently" first requires evidence that you think at all.
Finjohn
Jan 28, 19 11:22 am
If you think she's qualified for her position then you obviously don't know how to think with logic, reason and common sense.
SneakyPete
Jan 30, 19 5:25 pm
Irony in this case is using the word 'logic'
in an excellent example of a logical fallacy.
Marc Miller
Jan 25, 19 4:19 pm
Money says the lecture isn't about Landscape Architecture but about Landscape as it relates to ARCHITECTURE.
Fivescore
Jan 25, 19 4:36 pm
The lecture is about "Understanding the Benefits and Challenges of Integrated Multidisciplinarity". That probably means it's about the lecturer's experiences as a landscape designer working with architects and other disciplines. The speaker is the head of landscape design in a large design firm, and has worked in that capacity on a good long list of projects. I don't really get the OP's objection - how is it deceptive and misrepresentation for someone to speak about their professional experience? The accreditation of the speaker's foreign degrees seems entirely irrelevant, unless maybe they were lecturing on "how to get into an accredited professional degree program" or something like that. I'd vote for just skipping the lecture if you're offended by the lecturer's lack of a certain degree.
Flatfish
Jan 25, 19 5:06 pm
Given the lack of required experience, this person does not qualify, and will never qualify as a professional practitioner in any design field.
Huh? They're the head of landscape design... but you think they have a "lack of required experience"? If this person wants to become a licensed landscape architect I'm sure they would satisfy the experience requirements, and a professional degree isn't a requirement - you can get that license by several different experience+education tracks.
montaigne
Jan 27, 19 7:35 pm
How do you become licensed without a professional degree?
Fivescore
Jan 27, 19 8:33 pm
You just need more years of experience than if you had a professional degree. In NY, where this person works, there are several different tracks you can take, to become a licensed landscape architect with a related but non-professional degree, an unrelated degree, a 2-year degree, etc.
Most states that license landscape architects have similar options. At least 20 US states, including NY, also still have tracks to become a licensed architect without a professional degree - in some states with as little as a high school diploma + experience.
You're likely to end up with many coworkers, consultants, etc. in your career who didn't pursue professional degrees. Some will have obtained their licenses by alternate routes, and others will choose not to pursue licensing but in some cases will still achieve expert status in their fields. Better get used to that now.
You are right, you can obtain a license with many years of professional experience under a landscape architect without a landscape architecture degree. However, all of these circumstances require significant experience with a licensed landscape office, not an architect (min. 6 yrs with a professional design degree, min. 10 years with a bachelors).
Fivescore
Jan 27, 19 8:57 pm
The firm in question provides landscape architecture services, and employs landscape architects who could sign off on that experience, should this person ever choose to pursue a license. The person in question also has previous experience with other firms. All they'd need to do is get the experience signed off and pass the test. Given that they have three degrees in related subjects, and 8+ years of experience, I'd expect they're quite capable of passing the exam. In any case, they're not referring to themselves by a protected title ("landscape designer" is not protected in NY), and there's nothing preventing them from lecturing about landscape architecture.
montaigne
Jan 27, 19 9:12 pm
Get your facts straight. The firm does not offer landscape architecture services. The person in question does not have experience as a landscape architect with other firms, and they do not have 8 years of experience in landscape architecture. 0 to be precise. We had to coordinate on a project, and their evident lack of knowledge was an insult to the profession, and a hazard to the project. For all your interest in being knowledgable, you don't seem concerned with making sure that people know what they're actually doing
Flatfish
Jan 27, 19 9:13 pm
You are aware this person has two master degrees, right? One is an MS Architecture, and the other is an MS Environmental Design. Their bachelor is in Environmental Design (it encompasses architecture, landscape architecture, and urban design). Still not getting how you think they will "never qualify as a professional practitioner in any design field."
Flatfish
Jan 27, 19 9:24 pm
So... it looks like Threesleeve's info is pretty accurate. Their resume includes their current firm and three past firms, both of which do provide landscape architecture services, dating back to 2010. Are you saying you have proof they didn't work at those? The firm at which they currently work does employ several licensed landscape architects, and does provide landscape architecture services - you seem to be the one without the facts.
If you can prove that the past jobs on their resume are lies, maybe you should send that to Penn, for future lecture planning purposes.
will galloway
Jan 26, 19 6:35 pm
its not a problem, there is no misrepresentation, probably going to be a good lecture, you should go and listen and see for yourself.
hospitals are run by people who are not doctors. This is not even close to that kind of gap, so why the worry?
citizen
Jan 27, 19 6:10 pm
^ Well-stated.
montaigne
Jan 27, 19 8:57 pm
Sounds like u have no problem w a lecture titled "law for architects" given by someone w no law degree and no practice in a law firm. But indeed, sure to be entertaining! And what else matters in 2019
citizen
Jan 27, 19 9:09 pm
Hmm, good point. In response, please see almost every comment in this thread --many, posted by folks with a lot of experience.
Flatfish
Jan 27, 19 9:19 pm
Funny example. I just went to a symposium about law for architects. I was held by my state AIA chapter - which incidentally has people on its board who were licensed via the "experience route" with no professional degrees. One of the speakers was an attorney who specializes in construction law. The other three speakers were an architect, an engineer, and a non-licensed non-attorney person who has written books on the subject. People do gain expertise in fields in which they do not hold professional degrees, and can become recognized experts in those areas of expertise.
will galloway
Jan 27, 19 9:31 pm
montaigne that is misleading at best. It would be a lecture on law given by someone who has several legal degrees and runs one of the largest law firms in the world and personally responsible for some of the most innovative legal decisions in recent history. Except that it wouldn't be, because this is about landscape architecture and the person is the head of the landscape department in one of the biggest firms in the world and doing fucking awesome stuff in that role. You would seriously prefer to not know about how said person does that? Because of what? A territorial dispute that is not even recognized as an actual dispute in most of USA?
SpontaneousCombustion
Jan 27, 19 9:59 pm
It's become clearer as the thread's gone on that the OP's objections stem from experience working with this lecturer on a project once. It's possible that the lecturer is incompetent, despite a strong resume that suggests otherwise. That happens. Most of us can think of cases we've encountered in our professional lives. I can sort of understand the resentment and concern that would result from seeing a bumbling consultant land on the academic lecture circuit - but I don't think it will ever be practical to ban people from the lecture circuit based on that sort of anecdotal objection.
The far more ridiculous part of the OP's argument is claiming that the lecturer has no experience, no related education, the firm doesn't do landscape architecture, etc. The firm has won numerous landscape architecture awards all over the world and employs many landscape architects who have stamped a mountain of landscape plans that are on file with AHJs, including right here in New York and other US states. Collectively they've got the credentials to practice pretty much anywhere. The lecturer in question has extensive related education and has held past positions in landscape design.
... and the lecture already happened so it's all moot.
David Bruce Lee
Jan 30, 19 11:47 am
i get totally get your point... but i do think forming an opinion of a lecture/lecturer base on their titles or lack thereof before you've heard them speak is a problem. personally, i've grown tired of the idea that having more degrees, titles, awards etc makes you appear more knowledgeable or more of an expert.
i've heard many people speak who were just as or more interesting an insightful and they had jack shit on their resume.
randomised
Jan 30, 19 11:56 am
Totally agree,
Sincerely Randomised FAIA, NCARB, LEED-EBOM, NBA, NWA, AA
There is an upcoming lecture at Penn, titled Landscape Architecture for Architects.
It is being given by the director of landscape architecture at at a large design firm, who is in fact not trained in landscape architecture, or architecture, or any field of design.
We once worked with this person, and were surprised to discover these facts. Given the lack of required experience, this person does not qualify, and will never qualify as a professional practitioner in any design field.
Is it problematic that someone like this is lecturing in professional schools of design?
Has anyone encountered what seems to be false representation of professional disciplines?
If their little bio on the lecture poster misidentifies them as registered, that's a potential problem. If not, anyone is allowed to talk about anything, strictly speaking. Lots of designers give ponderous, often meaningless lectures about "architecture." We may resist, heckle, or complain. But it happens all the time.
Did the person claim to have certain academic degrees or a professional license when they, in fact, did not? That would be grounds to rescind the invitation and cancel the lecture.
A lot of unlicensed people without formal training work in design fields and don't fraudulently claim false credentials, but they don't go out of their way to admit their status either. Do they know their stuff? Sometimes. It sounds like the big firm that employs this person thinks so.
Whatever the case is, whoever introduces the speaker should mention the persons academic background, or lack thereof, at the beginning of the lecture.
It's ironic that an apparently successful practitioner with no academic design training is speaking at a prestigious and expensive university design school.
from what I can see, this person has design degrees from outside the US, is that your issue?
foreign design degrees are great. Actually this person doesn’t have any professional design degrees
So the question is really whether that’s something to be concerned about as a group of professionals, or not?
When does it become Fyre Festival-esque?
I see no issues. Maybe the students will learn something practical about the working world.
So, no degrees or certifications. Here's a more relevant question: Does this person know anything about landscape architecture?
They should have gotten Kanye West.
It's just a freakin' lecture. It is like presenting work your employees produce., as long as the lecture is interesting :) One of the principals of a landscape architecture firm here in town is actually a philosopher...no design background at all. Do managers need to know what the people do they're managing? Might be refreshing to listen to a lecture about (landscape) architecture without all the archispeak.
I would say you should be prepared to back your claims in court if this person,(it's not hard to find who it is) finds this posts and decides to sue you for libel.
As rando says, it's just a lecture, anybody can speak of what they know, but you can't go around badmouthing someone just because you have a personal problem with it.
Last, do you think this "Large Design Firm" would hire and make associate of someone who's not qualified to do the job or to represent them?
you seem pretty confident. and pretty unaware of law, btw.
Kind of like Ando, FLW, or Pawson giving a lecture on architecture. The nerve! I am sure there is nothing to be learned there. Shoot the poser!
This person does have three degrees related to landscape and design, and about 8 years of related experience. You seem uncomfortable with the lack of an LAAB or NAAB accredited degree or something equivalent. I'd keep in mind that they are experienced in the field, they lead the landscape department at a widely respected firm, they aren't claiming any particular license or certification, and the state in which they work doesn't even require an accredited degree for licensing, nor do most US states - and this person doesn't appear to be using any regulated terms in describing their work or their position in that firm.
If you feel strongly that guest lecturers should have accredited professional degrees I suppose you could voice that to the university department's lecture committee. Obviously you can also choose not to attend the lecture.
Personally I don't see it as problematic - it's a person lecturing about their experience, in a field in which they do in fact have experience and education. Getting too hung up on accreditations and titles will drive you crazy as you get into your career - you'll encounter many, many people who didn't get to their positions via accredited professional degree programs. Many are nonetheless experts in their fields.
"Has anyone encountered what seems to be false representation of professional disciplines?"
Yes, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez as a member of Congress.
oh, so good to see your butt is hurt! did you watch agent orange speech about "powerful fences"? LOL.
No, not hurt at all. Very happy actually.
sure jan.
So you're suggesting that she wasn't elected? Because that's the only qualification to be in her position unless she's too young or not a citizen. Perhaps you're just a jerk. I'm going with jerk .
Point is she obviously isn't qualified. Name calling is so predictable. Must call anyone who thinks differently names. Very mature.
To accept that you simply "think differently" first requires evidence that you think at all.
If you think she's qualified for her position then you obviously don't know how to think with logic, reason and common sense.
Irony in this case is using the word 'logic' in an excellent example of a logical fallacy.
Money says the lecture isn't about Landscape Architecture but about Landscape as it relates to ARCHITECTURE.
The lecture is about "Understanding the Benefits and Challenges of Integrated Multidisciplinarity". That probably means it's about the lecturer's experiences as a landscape designer working with architects and other disciplines. The speaker is the head of landscape design in a large design firm, and has worked in that capacity on a good long list of projects. I don't really get the OP's objection - how is it deceptive and misrepresentation for someone to speak about their professional experience? The accreditation of the speaker's foreign degrees seems entirely irrelevant, unless maybe they were lecturing on "how to get into an accredited professional degree program" or something like that. I'd vote for just skipping the lecture if you're offended by the lecturer's lack of a certain degree.
Given the lack of required experience, this person does not qualify, and
will never qualify as a professional practitioner in any design field.
Huh? They're the head of landscape design... but you think they have a "lack of required experience"? If this person wants to become a licensed landscape architect I'm sure they would satisfy the experience requirements, and a professional degree isn't a requirement - you can get that license by several different experience+education tracks.
How do you become licensed without a professional degree?
You just need more years of experience than if you had a professional degree. In NY, where this person works, there are several different tracks you can take, to become a licensed landscape architect with a related but non-professional degree, an unrelated degree, a 2-year degree, etc.
Most states that license landscape architects have similar options. At least 20 US states, including NY, also still have tracks to become a licensed architect without a professional degree - in some states with as little as a high school diploma + experience.
You're likely to end up with many coworkers, consultants, etc. in your career who didn't pursue professional degrees. Some will have obtained their licenses by alternate routes, and others will choose not to pursue licensing but in some cases will still achieve expert status in their fields. Better get used to that now.
Go here to see the eight different education paths that are allowed by New York for landscape architect licensing: http://www.op.nysed.gov/prof/larch/larchlic.htm
There are 8 tracks for getting an architect license in New York too. Here: http://www.op.nysed.gov/prof/arch/archlic.htm
You are right, you can obtain a license with many years of professional experience under a landscape architect without a landscape architecture degree. However, all of these circumstances require significant experience with a licensed landscape office, not an architect (min. 6 yrs with a professional design degree, min. 10 years with a bachelors).
The firm in question provides landscape architecture services, and employs landscape architects who could sign off on that experience, should this person ever choose to pursue a license. The person in question also has previous experience with other firms. All they'd need to do is get the experience signed off and pass the test. Given that they have three degrees in related subjects, and 8+ years of experience, I'd expect they're quite capable of passing the exam. In any case, they're not referring to themselves by a protected title ("landscape designer" is not protected in NY), and there's nothing preventing them from lecturing about landscape architecture.
Get your facts straight. The firm does not offer landscape architecture services. The person in question does not have experience as a landscape architect with other firms, and they do not have 8 years of experience in landscape architecture. 0 to be precise. We had to coordinate on a project, and their evident lack of knowledge was an insult to the profession, and a hazard to the project. For all your interest in being knowledgable, you don't seem concerned with making sure that people know what they're actually doing
You are aware this person has two master degrees, right? One is an MS Architecture, and the other is an MS Environmental Design. Their bachelor is in Environmental Design (it encompasses architecture, landscape architecture, and urban design). Still not getting how you think they will "never qualify as a professional practitioner in any design field."
So... it looks like Threesleeve's info is pretty accurate. Their resume includes their current firm and three past firms, both of which do provide landscape architecture services, dating back to 2010. Are you saying you have proof they didn't work at those? The firm at which they currently work does employ several licensed landscape architects, and does provide landscape architecture services - you seem to be the one without the facts.
If you can prove that the past jobs on their resume are lies, maybe you should send that to Penn, for future lecture planning purposes.
its not a problem, there is no misrepresentation, probably going to be a good lecture, you should go and listen and see for yourself.
hospitals are run by people who are not doctors. This is not even close to that kind of gap, so why the worry?
^ Well-stated.
Sounds like u have no problem w a lecture titled "law for architects" given by someone w no law degree and no practice in a law firm. But indeed, sure to be entertaining! And what else matters in 2019
Hmm, good point. In response, please see almost every comment in this thread --many, posted by folks with a lot of experience.
Funny example. I just went to a symposium about law for architects. I was held by my state AIA chapter - which incidentally has people on its board who were licensed via the "experience route" with no professional degrees. One of the speakers was an attorney who specializes in construction law. The other three speakers were an architect, an engineer, and a non-licensed non-attorney person who has written books on the subject. People do gain expertise in fields in which they do not hold professional degrees, and can become recognized experts in those areas of expertise.
montaigne that is misleading at best. It would be a lecture on law given by someone who has several legal degrees and runs one of the largest law firms in the world and personally responsible for some of the most innovative legal decisions in recent history. Except that it wouldn't be, because this is about landscape architecture and the person is the head of the landscape department in one of the biggest firms in the world and doing fucking awesome stuff in that role. You would seriously prefer to not know about how said person does that? Because of what? A territorial dispute that is not even recognized as an actual dispute in most of USA?
It's become clearer as the thread's gone on that the OP's objections stem from experience working with this lecturer on a project once. It's possible that the lecturer is incompetent, despite a strong resume that suggests otherwise. That happens. Most of us can think of cases we've encountered in our professional lives. I can sort of understand the resentment and concern that would result from seeing a bumbling consultant land on the academic lecture circuit - but I don't think it will ever be practical to ban people from the lecture circuit based on that sort of anecdotal objection.
The far more ridiculous part of the OP's argument is claiming that the lecturer has no experience, no related education, the firm doesn't do landscape architecture, etc. The firm has won numerous landscape architecture awards all over the world and employs many landscape architects who have stamped a mountain of landscape plans that are on file with AHJs, including right here in New York and other US states. Collectively they've got the credentials to practice pretty much anywhere. The lecturer in question has extensive related education and has held past positions in landscape design.
... and the lecture already happened so it's all moot.
i get totally get your point... but i do think forming an opinion of a lecture/lecturer base on their titles or lack thereof before you've heard them speak is a problem. personally, i've grown tired of the idea that having more degrees, titles, awards etc makes you appear more knowledgeable or more of an expert.
i've heard many people speak who were just as or more interesting an insightful and they had jack shit on their resume.
Totally agree,
Sincerely Randomised FAIA, NCARB, LEED-EBOM, NBA, NWA, AA