Lately I've been wondering if undergraduate architecture school happens to early for most students (assuming they start right after high school). It seems like 17/18 years old is just too young. It might be better to travel the world, live life, experience a bunch of places, cultures and things, before learning architecture. This thought was further provoked by our last recording with Takashi Yanai, Partner at EYRC Architects... he dropped out of undergrad and worked for GA houses in Tokyo, before returning to architecture school. I have to say... his story is enticing and it seemed to work well for him.
Non Sequitur
Dec 18, 18 1:37 pm
Sure, if money is no problem and you can delay becoming an adult... why not?
tduds
Dec 18, 18 4:28 pm
Gap year grants would be a great thing.
Non Sequitur
Dec 18, 18 4:36 pm
Are those things real?
David Bruce Lee
Dec 19, 18 2:12 pm
Ha. well that's true. but i suppose i didn't mean just vacationing for a few years. the time spent 'living life' would include working.
David Bruce Lee
Dec 19, 18 2:12 pm
sabbaticals for students is an interesting idea...
randomised
Dec 18, 18 3:39 pm
Looking back I was also too young when starting uni, I quit after a year, wasn't ready really. Went to work till the next academic year, did a more practical undergrad, travelled the world for a bit, worked at a great architecture office for a longer bit and only then went back to uni to do my MSc. Worked well for me too, in hindsight :) might give this podcast a try.
David Bruce Lee
Dec 19, 18 2:14 pm
Interesting... yea in retrospect, i just wish i had a bid broader understanding of the world before trying to design cultural centers, libraries, stadiums, etc. Seems odd to ask a 17-19 year old to design significant projects when they know nothing about 'the world'.
David Bruce Lee
Dec 19, 18 2:15 pm
but i do think the danger of going into to practice too soon is that it would limit the imagination of students to what existing firms do.
randomised
Dec 19, 18 2:58 pm
It wasn't your classical kind of practice I worked at though, very experimental and truly avant-garde so I actually had to pull back a bit on the imagination when back at uni.
( o Y o )
Dec 18, 18 4:11 pm
you don’t learn architecture in architecture school
tduds
Dec 18, 18 4:29 pm
Sure you do.
thatsthat
Dec 18, 18 4:16 pm
I was definitely too young and my grades show it. There weren't any architecture-related jobs in the town I grew up or adjacent cities so I would've had to move out anyway just to get exposure to the field. In hindsight, it would've been nice to work, get an idea of what the profession is really like, and realize that you don't have to take school so seriously.
I actually had a mentorship class in HS where you go follow someone in your chosen profession for a semester. The best I could find within a 30 minute drive was a sales woman for tract home builder. I already knew more about construction than she did, but I got to do some decent plan iterations of people's homes though.
Beepbeep
Dec 18, 18 9:40 pm
Military, a really shity but paid 4 gap years, plus you grow up quick...
Volunteer
Dec 19, 18 2:19 pm
All the services have a civil engineering division which you can apply for before you join. The GI Bill after four years covers tuition at ANY school you can get accepted to. You could do four years, go to school on the GI Bill and earn money being in the Guard or Reserves while you are attending school and later as you can work toward a military retirement as well.
archi_dude
Dec 19, 18 8:24 pm
And pretty much everyone gets 40% disability for the rest of their life.
David Bruce Lee
Dec 19, 18 2:19 pm
hm, i didn't really mean to suggest that students should work at firms before going into school. I actually meant kind of the opposite... that students should do something else and experience a variety of things before entering architecture school (not do architecture professionally before school). iow it seems strange to try and design something for a 'world you know nothing about'
Flatfish
Dec 19, 18 2:57 pm
I did a variety of other things before going to college, for about 6 years after high school. It was great for seeing the world, getting some perspective on working and what kind of job I wanted in the longer run, and generally maturing and understanding the potential value of a college education before embarking on it.
The downside was the delay in starting my prime earning years. Yes, I was working before college, but in the types of jobs available to young people without college. On the whole my lifetime earnings may be less than what they could have been if I'd gone straight through college and started working in a firm a few years earlier - and I'll have less time in my peak earning period (typically one's late 40s through early 60s) because I got there a little later, so I'll have less time to grow my retirement investments.
There were also some issues early on with going to college with people I viewed as immature - and then being managed by them in my first jobs - but if delaying college were more widely done then there would be more of a mix of ages and it wouldn't be as perceivable a gap.
I wonder these days how affordable it would be though - when waiting even a few years means you're facing much higher tuition, and student debt is mounting all the time and people are taking 20-30 years to pay off their student loans! If you took off time before college then would you have time to kill off your student debt before retirement?
David Bruce Lee
Dec 20, 18 11:51 am
super interesting. i wonder if the time before college was only 3 years, if that would have been a better 'happy medium'? 6 years a long time. i've often had the same thoughts regarding life earning... working at firms that pay shit for a few years, you realize how much money you've missed out on... taking into consideration the raises and bonuses, you're right, the money not made is compounding. i've kind of decided the only way to make decent money in architecture is by leaps and bounds.
David Bruce Lee
Dec 20, 18 11:56 am
...and yea, the cost of tuition and student loans is the dark cloud looming over all of this. Maybe if you saved up money before going to school? sounds unlikely for most people.
archi_dude
Dec 19, 18 8:29 pm
I wasn’t accepted into architecture school until my second year and man did I have fun before it. I think it also kept me from becoming sucked into the studio is your whole life mentality and I did all I could to keep having a life outside of studio the rest of college. Looking back studio was honestly pretty worthless but all the memories and friends and other classes priceless. If I could go back the one thing I’d do differently is have my first job after college be part time and live at home. That first job where you organize the material library and make coffee while drafting flashing details is pretty awful. If it was just a part time pursuit and you were extended weekend warrioring it up or using that time to pursue a side business, way more bang for your time. Plus, you don’t need to tell anyone at your second job that you were just part time.
David Bruce Lee
Dec 20, 18 11:57 am
"If it was just a part time pursuit and you were extended weekend warrioring it up or using that time to pursue a side business, way more bang for your time. Plus, you don’t need to tell anyone at your second job that you were just part time."
Lately I've been wondering if undergraduate architecture school happens to early for most students (assuming they start right after high school). It seems like 17/18 years old is just too young. It might be better to travel the world, live life, experience a bunch of places, cultures and things, before learning architecture. This thought was further provoked by our last recording with Takashi Yanai, Partner at EYRC Architects... he dropped out of undergrad and worked for GA houses in Tokyo, before returning to architecture school. I have to say... his story is enticing and it seemed to work well for him.
Sure, if money is no problem and you can delay becoming an adult... why not?
Gap year grants would be a great thing.
Are those things real?
Ha. well that's true. but i suppose i didn't mean just vacationing for a few years. the time spent 'living life' would include working.
sabbaticals for students is an interesting idea...
Looking back I was also too young when starting uni, I quit after a year, wasn't ready really. Went to work till the next academic year, did a more practical undergrad, travelled the world for a bit, worked at a great architecture office for a longer bit and only then went back to uni to do my MSc. Worked well for me too, in hindsight :) might give this podcast a try.
Interesting... yea in retrospect, i just wish i had a bid broader understanding of the world before trying to design cultural centers, libraries, stadiums, etc. Seems odd to ask a 17-19 year old to design significant projects when they know nothing about 'the world'.
but i do think the danger of going into to practice too soon is that it would limit the imagination of students to what existing firms do.
It wasn't your classical kind of practice I worked at though, very experimental and truly avant-garde so I actually had to pull back a bit on the imagination when back at uni.
you don’t learn architecture in architecture school
Sure you do.
I was definitely too young and my grades show it. There weren't any architecture-related jobs in the town I grew up or adjacent cities so I would've had to move out anyway just to get exposure to the field. In hindsight, it would've been nice to work, get an idea of what the profession is really like, and realize that you don't have to take school so seriously.
I actually had a mentorship class in HS where you go follow someone in your chosen profession for a semester. The best I could find within a 30 minute drive was a sales woman for tract home builder. I already knew more about construction than she did, but I got to do some decent plan iterations of people's homes though.
Military, a really shity but paid 4 gap years, plus you grow up quick...
All the services have a civil engineering division which you can apply for before you join. The GI Bill after four years covers tuition at ANY school you can get accepted to. You could do four years, go to school on the GI Bill and earn money being in the Guard or Reserves while you are attending school and later as you can work toward a military retirement as well.
And pretty much everyone gets 40% disability for the rest of their life.
hm, i didn't really mean to suggest that students should work at firms before going into school. I actually meant kind of the opposite... that students should do something else and experience a variety of things before entering architecture school (not do architecture professionally before school). iow it seems strange to try and design something for a 'world you know nothing about'
I did a variety of other things before going to college, for about 6 years after high school. It was great for seeing the world, getting some perspective on working and what kind of job I wanted in the longer run, and generally maturing and understanding the potential value of a college education before embarking on it.
The downside was the delay in starting my prime earning years. Yes, I was working before college, but in the types of jobs available to young people without college. On the whole my lifetime earnings may be less than what they could have been if I'd gone straight through college and started working in a firm a few years earlier - and I'll have less time in my peak earning period (typically one's late 40s through early 60s) because I got there a little later, so I'll have less time to grow my retirement investments.
There were also some issues early on with going to college with people I viewed as immature - and then being managed by them in my first jobs - but if delaying college were more widely done then there would be more of a mix of ages and it wouldn't be as perceivable a gap.
I wonder these days how affordable it would be though - when waiting even a few years means you're facing much higher tuition, and student debt is mounting all the time and people are taking 20-30 years to pay off their student loans! If you took off time before college then would you have time to kill off your student debt before retirement?
super interesting. i wonder if the time before college was only 3 years, if that would have been a better 'happy medium'? 6 years a long time. i've often had the same thoughts regarding life earning... working at firms that pay shit for a few years, you realize how much money you've missed out on... taking into consideration the raises and bonuses, you're right, the money not made is compounding. i've kind of decided the only way to make decent money in architecture is by leaps and bounds.
...and yea, the cost of tuition and student loans is the dark cloud looming over all of this. Maybe if you saved up money before going to school? sounds unlikely for most people.
I wasn’t accepted into architecture school until my second year and man did I have fun before it. I think it also kept me from becoming sucked into the studio is your whole life mentality and I did all I could to keep having a life outside of studio the rest of college. Looking back studio was honestly pretty worthless but all the memories and friends and other classes priceless. If I could go back the one thing I’d do differently is have my first job after college be part time and live at home. That first job where you organize the material library and make coffee while drafting flashing details is pretty awful. If it was just a part time pursuit and you were extended weekend warrioring it up or using that time to pursue a side business, way more bang for your time. Plus, you don’t need to tell anyone at your second job that you were just part time.
"If it was just a part time pursuit and you were extended weekend warrioring it up or using that time to pursue a side business, way more bang for your time. Plus, you don’t need to tell anyone at your second job that you were just part time."
ha. that's not a bad plan at all.
what school?