I wrote a thing: https://www.finehomebuilding.c.... The editors added the "for builders" part to the title. Architects and engineers (and designers, and builders) have a huge responsibility, and huge opportunities, in the face of climate change--not the least of which is dealing with deniers.
randomised
Nov 3, 18 3:14 pm
A must read, it should be pinned on the front page.
88Buildings
Nov 7, 18 7:06 pm
I agree with most of what you said here. Many people are very conscious of not harming the environment through frugal living instilled by family/personal's values. But these people really dislike the Hollywood stars, politicians and activists lecturing them ; Especially if these activist people live in 10K ft2 houses and travel in private jets.
Non Sequitur
Nov 3, 18 8:05 pm
bookmarked for monday's morning commute reading.
Wood Guy
Nov 6, 18 2:13 pm
Thanks, all.
Wood Guy
Nov 7, 18 2:28 pm
Thanks!
justavisual
Nov 6, 18 4:32 pm
Great article. However- the passive house thing is just one way to look at things.
Also good to mention the creation of healthier indoor environments in new buildings + while refurbing old buildings. PLEASE do not wrap them in plastic - do not use any foam insulations. Consider using damp open materials like wood fibre insulation, breathable diffuse membranes, clay and chalk plasters - all sustainable, all recyclable, and all environmentally friendly. It may cost more, but its worth it...let the building breathe!
We just renovated an old brick house (no insulation to speak of before) and are having great success one year on - its finally damp free, stable 50% humidity indoors, and even our measly 4cm wood fibre insulation makes a huge difference in both heat gain and heat loss. Can't recommend enough.
In Europe we can get CLT from the computer to the site in 8 weeks (single family custom designs) - I cannot wait for this to become more widespread...but damn, we better keep replanting the forests.
randomised
Nov 7, 18 2:59 am
Great addition
Wood Guy
Nov 7, 18 8:20 am
Justavisual, thanks for the input. I mostly agree, and discussed closed cell foam in my previous column: https://www.finehomebuilding.com/2018/11/07/h280-is-using-closed-cell-foam-worth-the-trade-offs. I prefer to build vapor-open assemblies when possible, but there are situations where blocking water vapor is important, and spray foam is the best solution, such as insulating existing basements in cold climates. But I use it as rarely as I can.
justavisual
Nov 7, 18 9:22 am
Yes, indeed -basements-agree 100%. I avoid them when possible :)
Non Sequitur
Nov 7, 18 11:50 am
Wood Guy, we've been distancing ourselves from spray foam for vapour / air control in our commercial projects (I don't do residential). We just find it unreliable and see it separate from the substrates.
Wood Guy
Nov 7, 18 2:31 pm
Same here, I do all residential, design and now build as well, and try to sell clients on basement-free homes. It's not always possible; it is cheap square footage, after all, and I'd rather get the job and do the best I can for the client than to have them go elsewhere because I won't give them what they want. I'm generally very anti-foam of all sorts, but I'm realistic about it. In fact I just now placed an order for some borate-treated EPS to wrap an existing water line that can't go below the frost line due to ledge.
Rusty!
Nov 7, 18 10:11 am
"The most readily available and affordable rigid foam, extruded polystyrene (XPS) uses blowing agents that are 1400 times more damaging than CO2."
Sure.
"There are two viable alternatives: polyisocyanurate and expanded polystyrene (EPS)".
This is terrible advice unless you are only insulating from interior. Both polyiso and EPS lose R value over time and when exposed to wet conditions (and significantly so). Below grade positive side insulation sadly limits it to XPS for the time being. Europe has laws on which blowing agents can be used. USA does not, so the industry has done fuck all about it.
For above grade stick with Rock Wool Fiber Board Insulation. Avoid plastic insulation completely, when you can.
Lovely article otherwise. It will let you into grad school of your choosing for sure.
Non Sequitur
Nov 7, 18 11:47 am
I had a similar take of the rigid foam section. I'm starting to sneak in rigid mineral wool boards into projects where I can but it's a tough hill to climb to convince clients.
Rusty!
Nov 7, 18 12:04 pm
Does OBC not have requirements for NFPA 285 compliance? Easiest way to argue not to use plastic insulation in cavity walls. "Do you want a towering inferno? Didn't think so Mr. Client"
Non Sequitur
Nov 7, 18 12:13 pm
Oh baby, don't tease me with such a juicy question. While the OBC does not use NFPA285 specifically, we use a comparable testing standard
CAN/ULC-S102 Surface Burning Characteristics of Building Materials and Assemblies
CAN/ULC-S134 Fire Test of Exterior Wall Assemblies
CAN/ULC-S114 Standard Method of Test for Determination of Non-Combustibility in Building Materials
Combustible foam insulation (rigid or spray) is not permitted on the exterior walls, above grade, in buildings higher than 3 storeys... That's applicable even if you're only applying it selectively, say, around the loading dock walls or whatever.
Rusty!
Nov 7, 18 12:23 pm
That sounds more rigid than NFPA285, which will allow you to use any assembly provided it passes the actual test where you set the whole thing on fire.
Non Sequitur
Nov 7, 18 12:45 pm
Perhaps. That last part about not using non-compliant materials in taller than 3 storey building is unique to Ontario. Other places are more lenient.
Almosthip7
Nov 7, 18 3:39 pm
Alberta has similar requirements regrading buildings taller than 3 storeys
.
Non Sequitur
Nov 7, 18 3:44 pm
^Good to know.
Wood Guy
Nov 7, 18 3:19 pm
Rusty wrote: "The most readily available and affordable rigid foam, extruded polystyrene (XPS) uses blowing agents that are 1400 times more damaging than CO2."
Sure.
"There are two viable alternatives: polyisocyanurate and expanded polystyrene (EPS)".
This is terrible advice unless you are only insulating from interior.
I’ll admit it could have been worded more clearly, as EPS and polyiso each have more limitations than XPS, but one or the other can be used in place of polyiso in every situation. I believe I have seen an IBC or NFPA rule that says only XPS can be used below grade but it is outdated and the IRC does not include any language requiring XPS below grade.
Both polyiso and EPS lose R value over time and when exposed to wet conditions (and significantly so).
Not entirely true. Polyiso does lose R-value over time, as air infiltrates the cells filled with blowing agent. Some types absorb water up to 1.5% by volume, but others absorb less than .1% (ASTM C209). The R-value change can be very slow with impermeable foil facing. You didn’t mention that polyiso’s R-value decreases as the temperature gets colder, which is the opposite of every other insulation product that I’m aware of. But you can assume R-5.5/in, or slightly less for the exterior couple of inches in cold climates.
EPS is the only rigid foam insulation that maintains its R-value over time, at about R-4.0/in for denser grades. (I usually use Type 2, 15 psi, or Type 9, 25 psi.) It’s also available with a carbon additive (brand name Neopor) which maintains a constant R-5.0/in over time. As with all insulation, those are tested at mean 75°F, and EPS performance increases as the temperature decreases.
Below grade positive side insulation sadly limits it to XPS for the time being.
Lightweight, Type 1 EPS should not be used below grade, but denser grades do not absorb water and are safe to use below grade. ICFs are all made of EPS, it’s used for Geo-fill, and on high performance raft slabs all over Europe and in smaller quantities in the US. (I used to be operations manager here, with probably the best-known raft slab system in the US: https://www.ecocor.us/foundations.)
I generally don’t spec polyiso for use below grade on the exterior, but some companies including Johns Manville warrant their polyiso for that application. I’ve found the best value to be polyiso on foundation interiors, with high-density EPS below the slab.
The only rigid foam with an insecticide safe for human exposure, in the form of borate compounds, is EPS. It does not leach out and will remain insect-free while standard XPS becomes an ant farm. I’ve seen side-by-side comparisons. It’s also a flame retardant.
Europe has laws on which blowing agents can be used. USA does not, so the industry has done fuck all about it.
Not correct; the US does control what blowing agents are used; the EPA sets guidelines that the federal government enacts into law. Search for EPA SNAP Rule 21. Since 1990 they have required the blowing agents in XPS are not ozone-depleting compounds. (Not to be confused with global warming agents.) Europe does use a blowing agent with lower GWP than US-made XPS, but its rated R-value is lower. Not many people realize that XPS loses 20-25% of its R-value over time and should be considered R-4.4/in at most, and R-4.0/in to be safe.
For above grade stick with Rock Wool Fiber Board Insulation. Avoid plastic insulation completely, when you can.
Lovely article otherwise. It will let you into grad school of your choosing for sure.
Thank you. I’m not sure what you mean by grad school. I’ve been working as a designer and/or contractor for the 22 years since I earned a BS (in engineering), and have no plans to go back to school at this point in my life. I may try to get licensed as an architect at some point, but it holds no value in my current situation. I just feel strongly about climate change and the responsibility architects and designers have in addressing it. If you can convince clients to go foam-free, that is great. My world includes compromises, so I try to fully understand the products I spec and use, so I do the least damage possible.
Rusty!
Nov 7, 18 3:41 pm
Your knowledge of insulation is quite commendable. I only work on commercial projects, so it's good to hear what trends are happening on residential side. Each major manufacturer has completely different product lines for 2 different market segments, and sometimes they will promise different things to different markets to best suit their own interests. I do find it ironic that XPS is the only thing that will work in green roofs (yes yes, there are products that claim this and that, but sometimes you want to see innovation in the industry without being a guinea pig yourself).
Rusty!
Nov 7, 18 3:43 pm
Also I was joking about grad school part. Your article comes across as a mission statement / manifesto (in a good way of course). It's the kind of clarity that schools look for in phd candidates.
Wood Guy
Nov 7, 18 7:46 pm
Ah, got it. I suppose it is a manifesto/mission statement. I'll have to research the green roof thing--I'd be surprised if a high-density EPS couldn't work. Thank you.
I wrote a thing: https://www.finehomebuilding.c.... The editors added the "for builders" part to the title. Architects and engineers (and designers, and builders) have a huge responsibility, and huge opportunities, in the face of climate change--not the least of which is dealing with deniers.
A must read, it should be pinned on the front page.
I agree with most of what you said here. Many people are very conscious of not harming the environment through frugal living instilled by family/personal's values. But these people really dislike the Hollywood stars, politicians and activists lecturing them ; Especially if these activist people live in 10K ft2 houses and travel in private jets.
bookmarked for monday's morning commute reading.
Thanks, all.
Thanks!
Great article. However- the passive house thing is just one way to look at things.
Also good to mention the creation of healthier indoor environments in new buildings + while refurbing old buildings. PLEASE do not wrap them in plastic - do not use any foam insulations. Consider using damp open materials like wood fibre insulation, breathable diffuse membranes, clay and chalk plasters - all sustainable, all recyclable, and all environmentally friendly. It may cost more, but its worth it...let the building breathe!
We just renovated an old brick house (no insulation to speak of before) and are having great success one year on - its finally damp free, stable 50% humidity indoors, and even our measly 4cm wood fibre insulation makes a huge difference in both heat gain and heat loss. Can't recommend enough.
In Europe we can get CLT from the computer to the site in 8 weeks (single family custom designs) - I cannot wait for this to become more widespread...but damn, we better keep replanting the forests.
Great addition
Justavisual, thanks for the input. I mostly agree, and discussed closed cell foam in my previous column: https://www.finehomebuilding.com/2018/11/07/h280-is-using-closed-cell-foam-worth-the-trade-offs. I prefer to build vapor-open assemblies when possible, but there are situations where blocking water vapor is important, and spray foam is the best solution, such as insulating existing basements in cold climates. But I use it as rarely as I can.
Yes, indeed -basements-agree 100%. I avoid them when possible :)
Wood Guy, we've been distancing ourselves from spray foam for vapour / air control in our commercial projects (I don't do residential). We just find it unreliable and see it separate from the substrates.
Same here, I do all residential, design and now build as well, and try to sell clients on basement-free homes. It's not always possible; it is cheap square footage, after all, and I'd rather get the job and do the best I can for the client than to have them go elsewhere because I won't give them what they want. I'm generally very anti-foam of all sorts, but I'm realistic about it. In fact I just now placed an order for some borate-treated EPS to wrap an existing water line that can't go below the frost line due to ledge.
"The most readily available and affordable rigid foam, extruded polystyrene (XPS) uses blowing agents that are 1400 times more damaging than CO2."
Sure.
"There are two viable alternatives: polyisocyanurate and expanded polystyrene (EPS)".
This is terrible advice unless you are only insulating from interior. Both polyiso and EPS lose R value over time and when exposed to wet conditions (and significantly so). Below grade positive side insulation sadly limits it to XPS for the time being. Europe has laws on which blowing agents can be used. USA does not, so the industry has done fuck all about it.
For above grade stick with Rock Wool Fiber Board Insulation. Avoid plastic insulation completely, when you can.
Lovely article otherwise. It will let you into grad school of your choosing for sure.
I had a similar take of the rigid foam section. I'm starting to sneak in rigid mineral wool boards into projects where I can but it's a tough hill to climb to convince clients.
Does OBC not have requirements for NFPA 285 compliance? Easiest way to argue not to use plastic insulation in cavity walls. "Do you want a towering inferno? Didn't think so Mr. Client"
Oh baby, don't tease me with such a juicy question. While the OBC does not use NFPA285 specifically, we use a comparable testing standard
Combustible foam insulation (rigid or spray) is not permitted on the exterior walls, above grade, in buildings higher than 3 storeys... That's applicable even if you're only applying it selectively, say, around the loading dock walls or whatever.
That sounds more rigid than NFPA285, which will allow you to use any assembly provided it passes the actual test where you set the whole thing on fire.
Perhaps. That last part about not using non-compliant materials in taller than 3 storey building is unique to Ontario. Other places are more lenient.
Alberta has similar requirements regrading buildings taller than 3 storeys .
^Good to know.
Rusty wrote: "The most readily available and affordable rigid foam, extruded polystyrene (XPS) uses blowing agents that are 1400 times more damaging than CO2."
Sure.
"There are two viable alternatives: polyisocyanurate and expanded polystyrene (EPS)".
This is terrible advice unless you are only insulating from interior.
I’ll admit it could have been worded more clearly, as EPS and polyiso each have more limitations than XPS, but one or the other can be used in place of polyiso in every situation. I believe I have seen an IBC or NFPA rule that says only XPS can be used below grade but it is outdated and the IRC does not include any language requiring XPS below grade.
Both polyiso and EPS lose R value over time and when exposed to wet conditions (and significantly so).
Not entirely true. Polyiso does lose R-value over time, as air infiltrates the cells filled with blowing agent. Some types absorb water up to 1.5% by volume, but others absorb less than .1% (ASTM C209). The R-value change can be very slow with impermeable foil facing. You didn’t mention that polyiso’s R-value decreases as the temperature gets colder, which is the opposite of every other insulation product that I’m aware of. But you can assume R-5.5/in, or slightly less for the exterior couple of inches in cold climates. EPS is the only rigid foam insulation that maintains its R-value over time, at about R-4.0/in for denser grades. (I usually use Type 2, 15 psi, or Type 9, 25 psi.) It’s also available with a carbon additive (brand name Neopor) which maintains a constant R-5.0/in over time. As with all insulation, those are tested at mean 75°F, and EPS performance increases as the temperature decreases. Below grade positive side insulation sadly limits it to XPS for the time being.
Lightweight, Type 1 EPS should not be used below grade, but denser grades do not absorb water and are safe to use below grade. ICFs are all made of EPS, it’s used for Geo-fill, and on high performance raft slabs all over Europe and in smaller quantities in the US. (I used to be operations manager here, with probably the best-known raft slab system in the US: https://www.ecocor.us/foundations.)
I generally don’t spec polyiso for use below grade on the exterior, but some companies including Johns Manville warrant their polyiso for that application. I’ve found the best value to be polyiso on foundation interiors, with high-density EPS below the slab.
The only rigid foam with an insecticide safe for human exposure, in the form of borate compounds, is EPS. It does not leach out and will remain insect-free while standard XPS becomes an ant farm. I’ve seen side-by-side comparisons. It’s also a flame retardant.
Europe has laws on which blowing agents can be used. USA does not, so the industry has done fuck all about it.
Not correct; the US does control what blowing agents are used; the EPA sets guidelines that the federal government enacts into law. Search for EPA SNAP Rule 21. Since 1990 they have required the blowing agents in XPS are not ozone-depleting compounds. (Not to be confused with global warming agents.) Europe does use a blowing agent with lower GWP than US-made XPS, but its rated R-value is lower. Not many people realize that XPS loses 20-25% of its R-value over time and should be considered R-4.4/in at most, and R-4.0/in to be safe.
For above grade stick with Rock Wool Fiber Board Insulation. Avoid plastic insulation completely, when you can.
I agree. I’d humbly propose that the highest-profile use of mineral wool continuous exterior insulation on a residential project to date was on Fine Homebuilding’s 2016 demonstration house, which I designed and pushed hard for mineral wool: https://www.finehomebuilding.com/2016/09/02/prohome-wall-thermal-moisture-control-layers.
If you want to read more about rigid foam, this in an article I wrote: https://www.finehomebuilding.com/2018/01/08/get-right-rigid-foam.
And this is a members-only one I wrote about mineral wool: https://www.finehomebuilding.com/2018/01/08/get-right-rigid-foam
I actually prefer cellulose as cavity insulation: https://www.finehomebuilding.c....
Lovely article otherwise. It will let you into grad school of your choosing for sure.
Thank you. I’m not sure what you mean by grad school. I’ve been working as a designer and/or contractor for the 22 years since I earned a BS (in engineering), and have no plans to go back to school at this point in my life. I may try to get licensed as an architect at some point, but it holds no value in my current situation. I just feel strongly about climate change and the responsibility architects and designers have in addressing it. If you can convince clients to go foam-free, that is great. My world includes compromises, so I try to fully understand the products I spec and use, so I do the least damage possible.
Your knowledge of insulation is quite commendable. I only work on commercial projects, so it's good to hear what trends are happening on residential side. Each major manufacturer has completely different product lines for 2 different market segments, and sometimes they will promise different things to different markets to best suit their own interests. I do find it ironic that XPS is the only thing that will work in green roofs (yes yes, there are products that claim this and that, but sometimes you want to see innovation in the industry without being a guinea pig yourself).
Also I was joking about grad school part. Your article comes across as a mission statement / manifesto (in a good way of course). It's the kind of clarity that schools look for in phd candidates.
Ah, got it. I suppose it is a manifesto/mission statement. I'll have to research the green roof thing--I'd be surprised if a high-density EPS couldn't work. Thank you.