Hi everyone! I am looking for help wherever possible, as I was not given sufficient advice from my university.
I am doing architecture, I failed one of the modules in my second year, which led me to redoing the whole second year. In second attempt of my second year I did not get 40% in one of the submissions due to the miscommunication with my tutor (I passed everything else apart from this one). The tutor I had was absolutely useless, I made a complaint about him to the course leader, who ignored it. I was emailing them several times, everything again- was completely ignored. Same with emailing the programme leader- heard nothing back. I got a letter from the university saying I can't resubmit the failed assessment and that I cannot continue on the course due to not having enough credits. I made 2 appeals with a help of a student advisor. I got the results, they rejected the first one saying I haven't got sufficient correspondence, which is bullsh*t as they weren't replying so what the hell else was I supposed to do. Second appeal got rejected as they said 'I should've made the complaints earlier'. However, I was having difficulties with the tutor in the second project, so I physically did not need to file any complaints earlier.
I wanted to move universities, but all of them say I cannot transfer into the 3rd year. I'd have to do a 2nd year with them all over again due to difference in programmes. I can't get a loan of student finance for another 2 years. Wasted my time and money with my previous university and now I'm f**ked. Bare in mind, I was contacting all the advisors from university and all of them were absolutely useless. I failed because of the unprofessionalism of their staff and they just didn't care...
Any ideas, what to do?
Anon_grad2.0
Oct 25, 18 11:31 am
are you the only one that failed? If so, it might be your own doing and not the tutor. I’m sure they’re there to facilitate coursework, but it isn’t their responsibility to spoon feed you.
I’ve had lots of students try and pull one over on me, so maybe I’m biased.
pattsxx
Oct 25, 18 12:16 pm
I am not sure how many people failed, however I asked a few of my course mates from the same group if they could write a short statement regarding their feedback with this tutor to back me up a little bit. And all of them confirmed he wasn’t helpful.
LightMyFire66
Oct 25, 18 11:32 am
Buckle up and learn from it, take it, the real world is full of lessons and pain like this. BEAR in mind, (like a load-bearing wall), that being bare means you're naked or without clothes. I'm just trying to help you laugh at the whole thing, a lot of folks end up wasting time and classes etc., no matter what their major is. I'd advise against student loans at all costs, it's preferable to pay cash, but that's up to you. Take a couple years off and work as an intern if money is an issue, if you can't find a job in an office, working for a construction firm, if you have the physical skills, could prove invaluable and give you other options, not just restrictive 'cage' most architects find themselves in after many years.
pattsxx
Oct 25, 18 12:17 pm
Haha thanks, I got the joke! Yes, that’s my plan for now. I love architecture and I know I won’t give up. One way or another, but I’ll get there eventually. It’s just a bit disappointing at the moment.
pattsxx
Oct 25, 18 12:26 pm
Do you think it’s possible to get a some kind of placement without a degree? I’m planning on working on my portfolio so I can back myself up a bit.
Non Sequitur
Oct 25, 18 11:52 am
Sounds more like a student problem than faculty if you're the only one having these issues.
pattsxx
Oct 25, 18 12:13 pm
Right, so I got this tutor in the second semester for two projects. During the first project, I wasn't happy with his ways of teaching, as he was super disorganised, always late, all over the place, there was no communication with him outside of tutorials (emails) and what's worse he never knew what was going on around him regarding the deadlines etc. At this point I knew it shouldn't be that way, also I've noticed my feedback is not as helpful as it should be, so I started worrying. At the end of this project (april/march) I made complaint to the module leader and my personal tutor about this person. The module leader never replied to me. My personal tutor only said to try work a bit more on my own, which is fair enough, however with architecture your progress depends on your tutor's feedback. So, that's when I got stuck. I was always attending the tutorials, always prepered, but I wasn't getting anything out of it. At the end, the tutor said I wouldn't have to focus too much on the technical part of the project and it turned out to be graded separetly, which I failed by 2%. So, as you can tell it's only 2%... At first I was searching for help within my module and programme leaders before I got the final results, but all of them completely ignored me (again). Also, when I had my portfolio review my tutor said the work I had was good(?)- do you say to a student they're doing a good job if they're failing...?
I spoke to many people on my course and all of them agree the tutor was absolutely useless. So, it's not only my opinion. My only blame here is that I was too naive and believed every word he said, which led me to this situation.
Bloopox
Oct 25, 18 12:35 pm
Is there any possibility in your program to do some sort of make-up project or to double up on studios or something like that, so that you can stay on track and enter the third year? I'd investigate that. If not, I don't think there's much else you can do at this point except retake the course that you failed, even though that will put you behind where you thought you'd be in your progress. I'm not at all surprised that other programs won't admit you directly into the third year - they can't do that if you haven't passed all of the coursework for your 2nd year yet, and anyway architecture schools often have policies preventing transfer into upper years without going all the way through that particular school's studio sequence. You need to get over the "only 2%" argument. If there's a threshold and you're under it then it doesn't matter if you missed it by 20% or .0001% - you missed it. I understand your frustration with the tutor and the appeal process - but you've taken that as far as possible so you just need to put that behind you and move on.
pattsxx
Oct 25, 18 1:19 pm
No, I wasn’t offered any further chance to redo this project unfortunately. Clearly it’s been a matter of a miscommunication, like I said I failed only by 2%. But they weren’t willing to help me in any way. And the other universities don’t know the story, they just don’t accept any transfers into a third year.
pattsxx
Oct 25, 18 1:20 pm
Thanks for the reply! I learnt my lesson and hopefully it’ll all work out sonner or later.
zonker
Oct 25, 18 12:55 pm
An architect always takes responsibility - you can't blame others
read Brian Tracy's " No excuses"
pattsxx
Oct 25, 18 1:24 pm
Yes, I agree. Both sides failed within this situation. I’m not fully blaming it on them. I’m just a bit disappointed from the outcome, I expected the university staff to be much more professional and helpful when asked for it.
pattsxx
Oct 25, 18 1:24 pm
Thanks anyway!
Non Sequitur
Oct 25, 18 1:57 pm
Ricky, I think part of the problem here is that communication was done solely through email. We have a problem with that with some staff. Shoot an email with no follow-up phone call. No worries, job's done, my ass is covered. Wrong. emails are too easy to ignore, specially when you're getting 40+ a day and handle dozens of projects.
JBeaumont
Oct 25, 18 2:15 pm
Rick, based on the spelling and terms in the OP's post, he or she is not in the US. In some other countries a "tutor" is the term for the person who has academic charge of the students - what you'd call a professor or sometimes a section leader in the US - not a TA sort of role that is overseen by another instructor/professor. I believe he or she is talking about the person who taught the course and is responsible for the grading.
pattsxx
Oct 25, 18 2:17 pm
Right. First of all, I did ask the people from group, which knew as much as I did. Secondly, each brief was said to be graded individually. So, it didn’t matter what to me what other groups were doing as it was a completely different project. I thought I was pretty instant bombarding them with emails. Looks like it wasn’t enough. It’s not as easy as it seems to speak to them in person, as most of the tutor have lectures and also they teach other years. So, it’s not like I can pop in to the office any time and they will be there waiting for me. The mistake I made is that at the end I just gave up after trying to get any information and after being ignored all every single time.
pattsxx
Oct 25, 18 2:18 pm
Unfortunately for me, I’m a super proud person, so after all these emails I sent I just left it. The only person I spoke face to face was the tutor, module leader (for a second, before he disappeared) and my personal tutor, who couldn’t advice me much at that moment.
pattsxx
Oct 25, 18 2:27 pm
JB yes, I’m based in the UK. Tutor=professor. See, in my university they always talked big about helping students and advising. However, when it came to actually me needing it, they didn’t give a flying fuck. Hence my disappointment.
pattsxx
Oct 25, 18 2:22 pm
Non Sequitur, I think you’re right there too. I did try to cover my ass a bit, proving I emailed them several times. Oh, well...
Non Sequitur
Oct 25, 18 2:31 pm
I've seen it happen numerous times before. Student complains that they have low grades and no feedback and the prof retorts with "why did you not come see me during office hours". Some people just don't react/rely on emails.
pattsxx
Oct 25, 18 2:44 pm
In my university they are obligated to get back to the student within 48h, just like it’s stated in the student handbook. If this fails, I have a right to make a complaint.
LightMyFire66
Oct 25, 18 2:42 pm
What you described is a "systemic problem" not just in universities and colleges, but also in many firms, no matter the practice type, or whether it's a multi-disciplined firm and no matter the location. You will find extremely incompetent people and 'corrupt systems' in every walk of life. You will also find people who are far worse than what I described here. What I am hoping for you is that there are still a few universities out there that don't operate as "meat processing facilities". And hoping you find one.
pattsxx
Oct 25, 18 2:46 pm
Shame I had to be a part of it... I appreciate your response!
randomised
Oct 25, 18 3:31 pm
So you basically failed 2nd year twice, think about that for a second and own up to it...
Also, you should've followed up on your complaint emails, picked up the phone and talked to them face to face and really build a case file where your class mates went on record, one way or the other, if they really felt the same as you about your tutor(s) or were they simply humouring you?
pattsxx
Oct 25, 18 3:56 pm
Hey, you’re not really being considered in this situation. Judging me only because I failed once, so you are clearly assuming the fault is all mine. I failed once because I thought I could do full time work and study. I couldn’t, failed and learnt from my mistakes. I did my best in the following year not to be in the same situation again... like I said this time I’ve been failed by 2% and only with this tutor. I passed everything else, never had a problem with anyone else either. I understand you just think I did fuck nothing and try to blame it a tutor, but the facts are facts- they fuck up too. And yes, genuinely other students thought the same, but they never were in a situation they had to take it further...
pattsxx
Oct 25, 18 4:00 pm
Also, there’s no such thing at my university as calling a tutor. It’s either through an email or face to face. And physically they were unavailable like I said before, so my only chance was through emails...
randomised
Oct 26, 18 2:56 am
I am considerate, you've failed your second year twice, that's all I'm pointing out. That you're so jumpy about that might indicate the underlying reason for your double failure, maybe try working on that.
Also, do you have any of your classmates confirm in writing their opinion about that one tutor that failed you the second time around? Or was it just trash talk at the bar?
Generally if you fail by only 2% that means you are already on the bottom, dangling there, no? It's like flipping a coin, why did you let it get to that?
How can your tutors be unavailable when you have classes with them? They have offices to put their briefcases, check those emails you were sending, they have telephones in those offices, hell go knock on some of those doors if your future depends on it.
It is very easy to write a bunch of whiny emails (or to post a whiny archinect-post), but if it is really that important to you, you would/should have taken a more active approach, sorry. How will this attitude ever get you anywhere in the real world if you ever graduate and stay in this field?
Stop finding/looking for excuses for the fact you failed your second year twice, own up to it and move forward.
pattsxx
Oct 26, 18 5:26 am
Hey, you’re missing a point there, so I’m not gonna sit there quietly. I understand I didn’t push myself as much as I should’ve, but that’s only because of the advice I was given. At that time we also had other assignments I had to focus on, so if my tutor tells me something’s not important, I’m not gonna waste my time on it. Simple as. I know what I’ve done wrong and I know what he did. So, don’t make me look like someone who didn’t give a crap about doing their coursework and then at the end put all the blame on the tutor.
pattsxx
Oct 26, 18 5:28 am
Shit happens, tutors fuck up too you know... And no, I wasn’t spending my nights at the bar slagging off the tutor, so yes, I do have it on paper...
pattsxx
Oct 26, 18 5:31 am
And this tutor was only a part time staff, so he was at the university just for the tutorials, ONCE a week. Only way of contacting him was through the emails.
Did you even read what I said?
pattsxx
Oct 26, 18 5:33 am
And I’m not looking for excuses. It is what it is. I want to get as much of feedback from other people to see if anyone could relate, hence the reason I posted it
. What’s bad about it?
randomised
Oct 26, 18 6:25 am
“Hey, you’re missing a point there, so I’m not gonna sit there quietly. I understand I didn’t push myself as much as I should’ve, but that’s only because of the advice I was given. At that time we also had other assignments I had to focus on, so if my tutor tells me something’s not important, I’m not gonna waste my time on it. Simple as. I know what I’ve done wrong and I know what he did. So, don’t make me look like someone who didn’t give a crap about doing their coursework and then at the end put all the blame on the tutor.”
You didn’t push yourself because someone told you not too? Way to go, great work ethic and drive! No way your tutor tells you their assignments are not important, as far as tutors are concerned their assignments are always important, maybe skip some assignments of your other tutors but not theirs! I never meant to make you look like you didn’t give a crap, just that you didn’t manage 2nd year, twice.
“Shit happens, tutors fuck up too you know... And no, I wasn’t spending my nights at the bar slagging off the tutor, so yes, I do have it on paper...”
Well, if people back you up, maybe push a little harder. Don’t just send some emails and call it quits, literally. If you look in the mirror and truly believe they are in the wrong, go for the fucking jugular, you paid for your education so go get your money’s worth!
“And this tutor was only a part time staff, so he was at the university just for the tutorials, ONCE a week. Only way of contacting him was through the emails.
Did you even read what I said?”
I did read what you wrote, but people don’t just -poof!- appear out of thin air and disappear again just like that, they need to arrive from somewhere and go somewhere afterwards. They have other, better!, things to do, they really do have telephones, other jobs with contact info, hell even a home if necessary. If you can’t get in touch with someone that is about to fail you and force you to repeat your second year again, go fucking do something about it, no?
“And I’m not looking for excuses. It is what it is. I want to get as much of feedback from other people to see if anyone could relate, hence the reason I posted it
. What’s bad about it?”
I’m giving you my feedback, seems like you can only handle positive feedback that affirms your own pov. Maybe that’s why you’re in this predicament in the first place (too easy?) And I for sure can relate to failure, I failed a semester once, the tutor makes horrible architecture who couldn’t understand what I was trying to do and I was still working on the side in an office on the completion of a venue, wouldn’t have missed that experience for anything in the world. So I didn’t make enough time and he didn’t get my way of working and I didn’t respect his. So I failed. So there you have it, I can relate if I want to.
pattsxx
Oct 26, 18 6:47 am
I just think you could’ve said what you said before in a different way. Your last comment makes sense and yes I agree with it! I failed once purely because of my own fault, second time- well, as you know I can argue about it. But I appreciate your comment and I know what to do in any situation like this in the future.
pattsxx
Oct 26, 18 6:55 am
Unfortunately, recording the law of my university, I had no right to be chasing my tutor outside of the working hours. And again, they are not using telephones for working purposes. I would get in trouble if I tried to get in touch with him on a ‘
personal’ level.
Non Sequitur
Oct 26, 18 7:35 am
Ah, now we’re getting somewhere here Rando. This reminds me way back when I was a first year studio TA. I was responsible
Non Sequitur
Oct 26, 18 7:37 am
For a smalll group and there was always « I didn’t do X studio project because I was up all night doing Y coursework ». Tough break kid, you still need to put in 100% in everything if you want to get above the C and B grade level.
pattsxx
Oct 26, 18 7:48 am
I had A’s in my previous projects ;). Clearly, I couldn’t handle well the situation I was in with this tutor, as nothing like that happened to me before. I just expected a bit more of a professionalism from them, that’s all.
pattsxx
Oct 26, 18 7:58 am
Also guys, I’m saying everything from a UK’s Student point of view, as like I said staff here is mostly super helpful. Looks like you’re more left out on your own in the USA. Which I don’t think is fair! In my opinion, architecture is a super creative subject. You need as much feedback as you can get to keep you going. If you’re stuck in your own mindset, that’s where the problem appears. And that’s what happened to me. I clearly wasn’t able to deal with the situation on my own.
Non Sequitur
Oct 26, 18 8:02 am
Rando and I are not based in the USA, just so you know. Certainly starts to resemble the "work from home" students I used to teach. They never could catch up to their peers, mostly due to lack of studio/face time with peers and misc faculty. I've know a few people who've had to re-do entire years. One in particular was so shook by it, He previously needed lots of attention and "fill the gaps" type explanations. Failing turned him around and 2 years after, was back in class and with gusto.
pattsxx
Oct 26, 18 8:12 am
Fair enough!
Non Sequitur
Oct 26, 18 1:27 pm
"UK is not that geographically big of area but it can be just as painful and difficult to contact the instructor in person or over the phone when they are not on campus. "
Are you suggesting the OP travel his/her country in search of their tutor like some sort of lost treasure chest in an open world RPG game?
eeayeeayo
Oct 26, 18 1:42 pm
This thread has gone in a weird direction... In my teaching career I've never encountered any code of conduct anywhere that explicitly limits where or when students and instructors can meet or talk. Rick your school must have had incidents (maybe with you?) that prompted the adoption of those strange rules. It does sound kind of like you might have been disciplined for stalking someone. As for the original poster, I agree with others that this is a done deal - there's no advice anyone can give you here that's going to reverse the situation, so cross it off as a learning experience and better luck next time.
eeayeeayo
Oct 26, 18 2:13 pm
Repeated contact when the student knows the professor doesn't want to be contacted is an entirely different thing than banning any contact off campus, which is what your previous post claimed was banned by your school's code of conduct.
eeayeeayo
Oct 26, 18 2:44 pm
Yeah, again, you've jumped from calling or approaching an instructor off campus to clarify an assignment, to deliberate stalking. Not the same thing at all. Trust me, if I as a professor were to make a complaint against a student for phoning me or approaching me when they see me on the street or in a coffee shop or something like that to briefly ask about an assignment or to set up a time to talk, I'd be the one who'd get disciplined, not the student. To rise to the level of stalking it would need to involve repeated incidents of a student deliberately following me or calling a home number or something AND I would have to document that I'd specifically asked them not to contact me that way and that they did it anyway after I'd told them that.
Look it's not that I'm recommending that this person run around all over town after his tutors - you can see above that I told him get over it and move on - but I think you're going off on one of your insane interpretations of rules again. None of the links you've posted remotely backs up what you originally wrote.
randomised
Oct 27, 18 3:01 am
So, gaining access to your tutor's home and waiting there on the couch till they come home, so you can "resolve" your issues is illegal? First time I ever heard about that. Maybe I shouldn't have picked Richard Meier as my mentor/guidance councelor...perhaps.
randomised
Oct 27, 18 4:15 am
How do you know if it is unwanted when you're not even allowed to? If I want to contact my tutor, it by definition is not unwanted. I have contacted tutors in class, after lectures, in school hallways, at drinks and presentations, in the parking lot, in the queue at the super market, in city hall, at their jobs.
pattsxx
Oct 27, 18 4:54 am
Don’t matter what the laws/regulations are, I would never try to chase a tutor outside of the working hours. It’s called morals. There’s just lines we shouldn’t cross. Especially as a female I would feel highly uncomfortable to approach a tutor on a personal level. They might be shit tutors, but they’re still human beings.
pattsxx
Oct 27, 18 5:00 am
Of course it depends on a person, one of the tutors I had was giving us extra tutorials outside of university during the Christmas break at a café and we had to contact him via his private email. However, it was his intention towards the whole group not just individuals. If he did the same only to me, then I would think it’s highly inappropriate.
randomised
Oct 27, 18 9:25 am
Geez, if your tutor doesn't want you to contact them for feedback they shouldn't be tutors.
randomised
Oct 27, 18 11:44 am
What do you mean they don't disclose where they live? The school is sending them checks so as a student of that school, paying tuition fee you're entitled to that information. It is public record.
randomised
Oct 27, 18 11:49 am
I'm just kidding, sort of. All I meant was if your tutor is hiding from giving you the feedback you are paying them for, put in a little more effort than writing the occasional email.
JBeaumont
Oct 25, 18 4:13 pm
It doesn't matter at this point whether it was your fault or the tutor's fault or both or neither... You've already taken it as far as you can through an appeal process and you lost. If there's nowhere higher to which to escalate it within your university then you're done with that route. Yes it's a frustrating situation, especially since you were so close to passing but not quite. But that's where you are. Your choices seem to be: stay where you are, and repeat this content; or apply somewhere else and start in their 2nd year; or drop out and do something else. These are decisions you need to make based on your own priorities.
pattsxx
Oct 25, 18 4:22 pm
Thanks for your advice
!
khailrigg
Oct 26, 18 3:38 am
I have problems with more than most of my tutors not giving enough information on marked assignments, and also failing to help myself and other students when asking questions. I study via distance which is a downfall, but the tutors are usually aren't contactable as there is no number they can be contacted on and they don't respond to the student forums and ignore emails.
I've had luck getting placement without having a degree, you can't have the title of "Architect" without completing it but you'll still be able to work for somebody and eventually go out on your own if that's what you want. Good luck. :)
pattsxx
Oct 26, 18 4:39 am
Thank you!
Non Sequitur
Oct 26, 18 7:32 am
Damn, I was on first name basis with my profs and with daily contact, sometimes even on
weekends.
pattsxx
Oct 26, 18 7:45 am
So were my previous tutors! They were truly amazing, always willing to help either on a educational or personal level. Universities need more people with passion :-)
Hi everyone!
I am looking for help wherever possible, as I was not given sufficient advice from my university.
I am doing architecture, I failed one of the modules in my second year, which led me to redoing the whole second year.
In second attempt of my second year I did not get 40% in one of the submissions due to the miscommunication with my tutor (I passed everything else apart from this one). The tutor I had was absolutely useless, I made a complaint about him to the course leader, who ignored it. I was emailing them several times, everything again- was completely ignored. Same with emailing the programme leader- heard nothing back. I got a letter from the university saying I can't resubmit the failed assessment and that I cannot continue on the course due to not having enough credits. I made 2 appeals with a help of a student advisor. I got the results, they rejected the first one saying I haven't got sufficient correspondence, which is bullsh*t as they weren't replying so what the hell else was I supposed to do. Second appeal got rejected as they said 'I should've made the complaints earlier'. However, I was having difficulties with the tutor in the second project, so I physically did not need to file any complaints earlier.
I wanted to move universities, but all of them say I cannot transfer into the 3rd year. I'd have to do a 2nd year with them all over again due to difference in programmes.
I can't get a loan of student finance for another 2 years. Wasted my time and money with my previous university and now I'm f**ked.
Bare in mind, I was contacting all the advisors from university and all of them were absolutely useless. I failed because of the unprofessionalism of their staff and they just didn't care...
Any ideas, what to do?
are you the only one that failed? If so, it might be your own doing and not the tutor. I’m sure they’re there to facilitate coursework, but it isn’t their responsibility to spoon feed you.
I’ve had lots of students try and pull one over on me, so maybe I’m biased.
I am not sure how many people failed, however I asked a few of my course mates from the same group if they could write a short statement regarding their feedback with this tutor to back me up a little bit. And all of them confirmed he wasn’t helpful.
Buckle up and learn from it, take it, the real world is full of lessons and pain like this. BEAR in mind, (like a load-bearing wall), that being bare means you're naked or without clothes. I'm just trying to help you laugh at the whole thing, a lot of folks end up wasting time and classes etc., no matter what their major is. I'd advise against student loans at all costs, it's preferable to pay cash, but that's up to you. Take a couple years off and work as an intern if money is an issue, if you can't find a job in an office, working for a construction firm, if you have the physical skills, could prove invaluable and give you other options, not just restrictive 'cage' most architects find themselves in after many years.
Haha thanks, I got the joke! Yes, that’s my plan for now. I love architecture and I know I won’t give up. One way or another, but I’ll get there eventually. It’s just a bit disappointing at the moment.
Do you think it’s possible to get a some kind of placement without a degree? I’m planning on working on my portfolio so I can back myself up a bit.
Sounds more like a student problem than faculty if you're the only one having these issues.
Right, so I got this tutor in the second semester for two projects. During the first project, I wasn't happy with his ways of teaching, as he was super disorganised, always late, all over the place, there was no communication with him outside of tutorials (emails) and what's worse he never knew what was going on around him regarding the deadlines etc. At this point I knew it shouldn't be that way, also I've noticed my feedback is not as helpful as it should be, so I started worrying. At the end of this project (april/march) I made complaint to the module leader and my personal tutor about this person. The module leader never replied to me. My personal tutor only said to try work a bit more on my own, which is fair enough, however with architecture your progress depends on your tutor's feedback. So, that's when I got stuck. I was always attending the tutorials, always prepered, but I wasn't getting anything out of it. At the end, the tutor said I wouldn't have to focus too much on the technical part of the project and it turned out to be graded separetly, which I failed by 2%. So, as you can tell it's only 2%... At first I was searching for help within my module and programme leaders before I got the final results, but all of them completely ignored me (again). Also, when I had my portfolio review my tutor said the work I had was good(?)- do you say to a student they're doing a good job if they're failing...?
I spoke to many people on my course and all of them agree the tutor was absolutely useless. So, it's not only my opinion.
My only blame here is that I was too naive and believed every word he said, which led me to this situation.
Is there any possibility in your program to do some sort of make-up project or to double up on studios or something like that, so that you can stay on track and enter the third year? I'd investigate that. If not, I don't think there's much else you can do at this point except retake the course that you failed, even though that will put you behind where you thought you'd be in your progress. I'm not at all surprised that other programs won't admit you directly into the third year - they can't do that if you haven't passed all of the coursework for your 2nd year yet, and anyway architecture schools often have policies preventing transfer into upper years without going all the way through that particular school's studio sequence. You need to get over the "only 2%" argument. If there's a threshold and you're under it then it doesn't matter if you missed it by 20% or .0001% - you missed it. I understand your frustration with the tutor and the appeal process - but you've taken that as far as possible so you just need to put that behind you and move on.
No, I wasn’t offered any further chance to redo this project unfortunately. Clearly it’s been a matter of a miscommunication, like I said I failed only by 2%. But they weren’t willing to help me in any way. And the other universities don’t know the story, they just don’t accept any transfers into a third year.
Thanks for the reply! I learnt my lesson and hopefully it’ll all work out sonner or later.
An architect always takes responsibility - you can't blame others
read Brian Tracy's " No excuses"
Yes, I agree. Both sides failed within this situation. I’m not fully blaming it on them. I’m just a bit disappointed from the outcome, I expected the university staff to be much more professional and helpful when asked for it.
Thanks anyway!
Ricky, I think part of the problem here is that communication was done solely through email. We have a problem with that with some staff. Shoot an email with no follow-up phone call. No worries, job's done, my ass is covered. Wrong. emails are too easy to ignore, specially when you're getting 40+ a day and handle dozens of projects.
Rick, based on the spelling and terms in the OP's post, he or she is not in the US. In some other countries a "tutor" is the term for the person who has academic charge of the students - what you'd call a professor or sometimes a section leader in the US - not a TA sort of role that is overseen by another instructor/professor. I believe he or she is talking about the person who taught the course and is responsible for the grading.
Right. First of all, I did ask the people from group, which knew as much as I did. Secondly, each brief was said to be graded individually. So, it didn’t matter what to me what other groups were doing as it was a completely different project. I thought I was pretty instant bombarding them with emails. Looks like it wasn’t enough. It’s not as easy as it seems to speak to them in person, as most of the tutor have lectures and also they teach other years. So, it’s not like I can pop in to the office any time and they will be there waiting for me. The mistake I made is that at the end I just gave up after trying to get any information and after being ignored all every single time.
Unfortunately for me, I’m a super proud person, so after all these emails I sent I just left it. The only person I spoke face to face was the tutor, module leader (for a second, before he disappeared) and my personal tutor, who couldn’t advice me much at that moment.
JB yes, I’m based in the UK. Tutor=professor. See, in my university they always talked big about helping students and advising. However, when it came to actually me needing it, they didn’t give a flying fuck. Hence my disappointment.
Non Sequitur, I think you’re right there too. I did try to cover my ass a bit, proving I emailed them several times. Oh, well...
I've seen it happen numerous times before. Student complains that they have low grades and no feedback and the prof retorts with "why did you not come see me during office hours". Some people just don't react/rely on emails.
In my university they are obligated to get back to the student within 48h, just like it’s stated in the student handbook. If this fails, I have a right to make a complaint.
What you described is a "systemic problem" not just in universities and colleges, but also in many firms, no matter the practice type, or whether it's a multi-disciplined firm and no matter the location. You will find extremely incompetent people and 'corrupt systems' in every walk of life. You will also find people who are far worse than what I described here. What I am hoping for you is that there are still a few universities out there that don't operate as "meat processing facilities". And hoping you find one.
Shame I had to be a part of it... I appreciate your response!
So you basically failed 2nd year twice, think about that for a second and own up to it...
Also, you should've followed up on your complaint emails, picked up the phone and talked to them face to face and really build a case file where your class mates went on record, one way or the other, if they really felt the same as you about your tutor(s) or were they simply humouring you?
Hey, you’re not really being considered in this situation. Judging me only because I failed once, so you are clearly assuming the fault is all mine. I failed once because I thought I could do full time work and study. I couldn’t, failed and learnt from my mistakes. I did my best in the following year not to be in the same situation again... like I said this time I’ve been failed by 2% and only with this tutor. I passed everything else, never had a problem with anyone else either. I understand you just think I did fuck nothing and try to blame it a tutor, but the facts are facts- they fuck up too. And yes, genuinely other students thought the same, but they never were in a situation they had to take it further...
Also, there’s no such thing at my university as calling a tutor. It’s either through an email or face to face. And physically they were unavailable like I said before, so my only chance was through emails...
I am considerate, you've failed your second year twice, that's all I'm pointing out. That you're so jumpy about that might indicate the underlying reason for your double failure, maybe try working on that.
Also, do you have any of your classmates confirm in writing their opinion about that one tutor that failed you the second time around? Or was it just trash talk at the bar?
Generally if you fail by only 2% that means you are already on the bottom, dangling there, no? It's like flipping a coin, why did you let it get to that?
How can your tutors be unavailable when you have classes with them? They have offices to put their briefcases, check those emails you were sending, they have telephones in those offices, hell go knock on some of those doors if your future depends on it.
It is very easy to write a bunch of whiny emails (or to post a whiny archinect-post), but if it is really that important to you, you would/should have taken a more active approach, sorry. How will this attitude ever get you anywhere in the real world if you ever graduate and stay in this field?
Stop finding/looking for excuses for the fact you failed your second year twice, own up to it and move forward.
Hey, you’re missing a point there, so I’m not gonna sit there quietly. I understand I didn’t push myself as much as I should’ve, but that’s only because of the advice I was given. At that time we also had other assignments I had to focus on, so if my tutor tells me something’s not important, I’m not gonna waste my time on it. Simple as. I know what I’ve done wrong and I know what he did. So, don’t make me look like someone who didn’t give a crap about doing their coursework and then at the end put all the blame on the tutor.
Shit happens, tutors fuck up too you know... And no, I wasn’t spending my nights at the bar slagging off the tutor, so yes, I do have it on paper...
And this tutor was only a part time staff, so he was at the university just for the tutorials, ONCE a week. Only way of contacting him was through the emails.
Did you even read what I said?
And I’m not looking for excuses. It is what it is. I want to get as much of feedback from other people to see if anyone could relate, hence the reason I posted it
. What’s bad about it?
“Hey, you’re missing a point there, so I’m not gonna sit there quietly. I understand I didn’t push myself as much as I should’ve, but that’s only because of the advice I was given. At that time we also had other assignments I had to focus on, so if my tutor tells me something’s not important, I’m not gonna waste my time on it. Simple as. I know what I’ve done wrong and I know what he did. So, don’t make me look like someone who didn’t give a crap about doing their coursework and then at the end put all the blame on the tutor.”
You didn’t push yourself because someone told you not too? Way to go, great work ethic and drive! No way your tutor tells you their assignments are not important, as far as tutors are concerned their assignments are always important, maybe skip some assignments of your other tutors but not theirs! I never meant to make you look like you didn’t give a crap, just that you didn’t manage 2nd year, twice.
“Shit happens, tutors fuck up too you know... And no, I wasn’t spending my nights at the bar slagging off the tutor, so yes, I do have it on paper...”
Well, if people back you up, maybe push a little harder. Don’t just send some emails and call it quits, literally. If you look in the mirror and truly believe they are in the wrong, go for the fucking jugular, you paid for your education so go get your money’s worth!
“And this tutor was only a part time staff, so he was at the university just for the tutorials, ONCE a week. Only way of contacting him was through the emails. Did you even read what I said?”
I did read what you wrote, but people don’t just -poof!- appear out of thin air and disappear again just like that, they need to arrive from somewhere and go somewhere afterwards. They have other, better!, things to do, they really do have telephones, other jobs with contact info, hell even a home if necessary. If you can’t get in touch with someone that is about to fail you and force you to repeat your second year again, go fucking do something about it, no?
“And I’m not looking for excuses. It is what it is. I want to get as much of feedback from other people to see if anyone could relate, hence the reason I posted it . What’s bad about it?”
I’m giving you my feedback, seems like you can only handle positive feedback that affirms your own pov. Maybe that’s why you’re in this predicament in the first place (too easy?) And I for sure can relate to failure, I failed a semester once, the tutor makes horrible architecture who couldn’t understand what I was trying to do and I was still working on the side in an office on the completion of a venue, wouldn’t have missed that experience for anything in the world. So I didn’t make enough time and he didn’t get my way of working and I didn’t respect his. So I failed. So there you have it, I can relate if I want to.
I just think you could’ve said what you said before in a different way. Your last comment makes sense and yes I agree with it! I failed once purely because of my own fault, second time- well, as you know I can argue about it. But I appreciate your comment and I know what to do in any situation like this in the future.
Unfortunately, recording the law of my university, I had no right to be chasing my tutor outside of the working hours. And again, they are not using telephones for working purposes. I would get in trouble if I tried to get in touch with him on a ‘
personal’ level.
Ah, now we’re getting somewhere here Rando. This reminds me way back when I was a first year studio TA. I was responsible
For a smalll group and there was always « I didn’t do X studio project because I was up all night doing Y coursework ». Tough break kid, you still need to put in 100% in everything if you want to get above the C and B grade level.
I had A’s in my previous projects ;). Clearly, I couldn’t handle well the situation I was in with this tutor, as nothing like that happened to me before. I just expected a bit more of a professionalism from them, that’s all.
Also guys, I’m saying everything from a UK’s Student point of view, as like I said staff here is mostly super helpful. Looks like you’re more left out on your own in the USA. Which I don’t think is fair! In my opinion, architecture is a super creative subject. You need as much feedback as you can get to keep you going. If you’re stuck in your own mindset, that’s where the problem appears. And that’s what happened to me. I clearly wasn’t able to deal with the situation on my own.
Rando and I are not based in the USA, just so you know. Certainly starts to resemble the "work from home" students I used to teach. They never could catch up to their peers, mostly due to lack of studio/face time with peers and misc faculty. I've know a few people who've had to re-do entire years. One in particular was so shook by it, He previously needed lots of attention and "fill the gaps" type explanations. Failing turned him around and 2 years after, was back in class and with gusto.
Fair enough!
"UK is not that geographically big of area but it can be just as painful and difficult to contact the instructor in person or over the phone when they are not on campus. "
Are you suggesting the OP travel his/her country in search of their tutor like some sort of lost treasure chest in an open world RPG game?
This thread has gone in a weird direction... In my teaching career I've never encountered any code of conduct anywhere that explicitly limits where or when students and instructors can meet or talk. Rick your school must have had incidents (maybe with you?) that prompted the adoption of those strange rules. It does sound kind of like you might have been disciplined for stalking someone. As for the original poster, I agree with others that this is a done deal - there's no advice anyone can give you here that's going to reverse the situation, so cross it off as a learning experience and better luck next time.
Repeated contact when the student knows the professor doesn't want to be contacted is an entirely different thing than banning any contact off campus, which is what your previous post claimed was banned by your school's code of conduct.
Yeah, again, you've jumped from calling or approaching an instructor off campus to clarify an assignment, to deliberate stalking. Not the same thing at all. Trust me, if I as a professor were to make a complaint against a student for phoning me or approaching me when they see me on the street or in a coffee shop or something like that to briefly ask about an assignment or to set up a time to talk, I'd be the one who'd get disciplined, not the student. To rise to the level of stalking it would need to involve repeated incidents of a student deliberately following me or calling a home number or something AND I would have to document that I'd specifically asked them not to contact me that way and that they did it anyway after I'd told them that.
Look it's not that I'm recommending that this person run around all over town after his tutors - you can see above that I told him get over it and move on - but I think you're going off on one of your insane interpretations of rules again. None of the links you've posted remotely backs up what you originally wrote.
So, gaining access to your tutor's home and waiting there on the couch till they come home, so you can "resolve" your issues is illegal? First time I ever heard about that. Maybe I shouldn't have picked Richard Meier as my mentor/guidance councelor...perhaps.
How do you know if it is unwanted when you're not even allowed to? If I want to contact my tutor, it by definition is not unwanted. I have contacted tutors in class, after lectures, in school hallways, at drinks and presentations, in the parking lot, in the queue at the super market, in city hall, at their jobs.
Don’t matter what the laws/regulations are, I would never try to chase a tutor outside of the working hours. It’s called morals. There’s just lines we shouldn’t cross. Especially as a female I would feel highly uncomfortable to approach a tutor on a personal level. They might be shit tutors, but they’re still human beings.
Of course it depends on a person, one of the tutors I had was giving us extra tutorials outside of university during the Christmas break at a café and we had to contact him via his private email. However, it was his intention towards the whole group not just individuals. If he did the same only to me, then I would think it’s highly inappropriate.
Geez, if your tutor doesn't want you to contact them for feedback they shouldn't be tutors.
What do you mean they don't disclose where they live? The school is sending them checks so as a student of that school, paying tuition fee you're entitled to that information. It is public record.
I'm just kidding, sort of. All I meant was if your tutor is hiding from giving you the feedback you are paying them for, put in a little more effort than writing the occasional email.
It doesn't matter at this point whether it was your fault or the tutor's fault or both or neither... You've already taken it as far as you can through an appeal process and you lost. If there's nowhere higher to which to escalate it within your university then you're done with that route. Yes it's a frustrating situation, especially since you were so close to passing but not quite. But that's where you are. Your choices seem to be: stay where you are, and repeat this content; or apply somewhere else and start in their 2nd year; or drop out and do something else. These are decisions you need to make based on your own priorities.
Thanks for your advice
!
I have problems with more than most of my tutors not giving enough information on marked assignments, and also failing to help myself and other students when asking questions. I study via distance which is a downfall, but the tutors are usually aren't contactable as there is no number they can be contacted on and they don't respond to the student forums and ignore emails.
I've had luck getting placement without having a degree, you can't have the title of "Architect" without completing it but you'll still be able to work for somebody and eventually go out on your own if that's what you want. Good luck. :)
Thank you!
Damn, I was on first name basis with my profs and with daily contact, sometimes even on
weekends.
So were my previous tutors! They were truly amazing, always willing to help either on a educational or personal level. Universities need more people with passion :-)