About four months ago I applied to a famous firm in my city—never heard back and assumed that I didn’t get it. A small firm with really great work, albeit a good portion of it being small remodels, was looking to hire so I went on a few interviews and excitedly took the job. I’m really enthralled about the small firm, especially coming from a corporate environment—but the caliber of the work being done at the second firm is really quite high. Honestly I feel privileged to be in this situation, both firms are wonderful in their own way. I just don’t want to burn any bridges by taking the interview—and even worse, reneging on the job acceptance.
Kkarchitecture
Sep 20, 18 10:42 am
(forget to post) Any advice/perspective would be really valuable!
santiag
Sep 20, 18 11:14 am
it’s an interview - not an official job offer, isn’t it? are you sure you will eventually get hired by the starchitect firm? i honestly would just tell the truth to the small studio and ask for advice from them. i may be too unrealistic but if i were an employer (who i have never been!) i would want my employee to fully devote himself to my studio. so i would let he/she try (so no regrets) and decide after all.
it’s up to you. i mean just go and talk to the starchitect firm. let’s see how it goes. it’s possible that you hate the starchitect firm right away and never want to work for them. who knows?
Bloopox
Sep 20, 18 11:30 am
Years ago I had a colleague who did something similar - she accepted Firm A's offer and worked there for about a week, but then received a more attractive offer from bigger-name Firm B and resigned from Firm A. But it turned out that, unbeknownst to her, her boss at Firm A was the spouse of a manager at Firm B, and when he found out about it they rescinded their offer because of her unprofessional conduct in leaving the other firm shorthanded on short notice - so in the end she ended up still looking for a job, and with the people from two firms unhappy with her. Architecture is a small world and that kind of thing can hurt your reputation.
If you've already started working in the small firm, then I'd say that unless there's some major dysfunction or poor fit situation there you should stay and not interview right now at the other firm. If you haven't already started at the small firm then it would be slightly less bad to back out before you start - tell them you're very sorry for the inconvenience, you appreciate all the time and consideration they put in in their hiring process, but you've had a change in circumstances that makes you unable to accept their offer after all... But of course you should only do that if you actually have an offer from the 2nd firm, which you don't yet, so you'll need to get Firm B to drastically speed up their hiring process (which you may be able to do by explaining that you have another offer from a firm that wants you to start nearly immediately, but that you're very interested in Firm B.) If you can't get them to speed this up so that you'd have an offer before your start date with Firm A, then I'd say let the idea of Firm B go for now, and revisit things with them in the future, if/when you're ready for a job change.
square
Sep 20, 18 12:31 pm
i wouldn't follow this advice.. this is a unique scenario that probably has more to do with the fact that the person didn't give the standard 2 weeks notice.
as someone who has been laid off twice in a year (company A laid me off, said company B is looking for help.. company B dangles carrot but decides not to hire..), the company does not love you back and will do what's best for the company. you should do likewise and do what is best for you. just be reasonable and respectful and all will work out.
sameolddoctor
Sep 20, 18 6:34 pm
I agree with Bloopox. Architects can be very petty. Its like the saying "Everything is a big deal in academia, cuz the stakes are so small"
randomised
Sep 20, 18 11:41 am
Happens all the time, if you do get a good offer from the starchitect and you really want to take it, go for it...but give the other office a decent amount of time to find a replacement, don't be an asshole :) Congrats!
Kkarchitecture
Sep 20, 18 11:59 am
Fortunately I haven’t started yet and won’t for a month, but also feel like the small firm is a great opportunity for very different reasons. Both principles have amazing backgrounds at the small firm but the firm is just in the process of establishing itself, so the work is a lot smaller—albeit beautiful and progressive. The studio I would be in at the large firm does museums mostly, which is an awesome experience in and of itself. My fear is the starchitect will be too close to where I’m at now and pigeonhole me, on the flipside maybe the opportunities to do work of that caliber will never present themselves at the small firm. It’s quite the conundrum!
Non Sequitur
Sep 20, 18 12:11 pm
We had a junior guy do that to us this summer. He got a job offer while finishing up school and, 4-6weeks go by and on his scheduled first day, tells the office he's accepted an offer. People were pissed and it is certain that that guy's name has been passed around to other firms.
Kkarchitecture
Sep 20, 18 1:15 pm
Thanks for the reply! I would definitely not wait that long to tell them, I just accepted the offer and would tell them right away to not put them in a bad position. My inclination is to just turn down the starchitect because j
I feel that I could contribute more and grow more at the smaller firm.
Kkarchitecture
Sep 20, 18 1:16 pm
Apparently archinect is not the most mobile friendly sight, this the typos!
Non Sequitur
Sep 20, 18 1:21 pm
Mobile app sucks.... Best to open in a browser to access reply and edit features. If you're still early in your career, exposure to everything, shiny and dirty, will always be in your favour. Can't hurt to take the interview tho as that is also important just to see what others value in you.
Volunteer
Sep 20, 18 12:15 pm
At a 'starchitect' firm you will most likely be doing zero, zip, nada, no design work and they will not value your opinion in the least. Frank Gehry's firm said as much in one of their ads seeking computer drudges.
Keep your self-respect and reputation intact and stay with the smaller firm.
Non Sequitur
Sep 20, 18 1:11 pm
smart
Kkarchitecture
Sep 20, 18 1:19 pm
This is my inclination as well—before applying I met with an ex employee of the firm and she mentioned something along these lines, more concerning was the low pay—and she had about 8 years of experience at other high-end
forms
Kkarchitecture
Sep 20, 18 1:20 pm
She also recently applied for the same position I was given, which maybe is another indicator.
BR.TN
Sep 20, 18 3:37 pm
nvm
David Bruce Lee
Sep 20, 18 12:34 pm
been there before. here's what i recommend:
interview at the starchitect office. no harm no foul. see what happens after u interview. if u get an offer then it will help u decide on what to do. all these comments saying you should decide if you should work at the starchitect office before you get an offer are pointless. u want options.
If the starchitects make you an offer, I wouldn't hesitate to be honest with them--let them know u already accepted an offer (this will also increase your perceived value to them). then do the usually research to find out more about the office.
i wouldn't worry about upsetting this or that office. its business. go where you want when you want. TBH if u come across an employer who doesn't understand that (a la, employer fires you for interviewing somewhere else or rescinds an offer, etc) then you probably don't want to work with them.
Fivescore
Sep 20, 18 1:16 pm
My firm would definitely not hire someone who discloses that they've already recently accepted another offer and are considering leaving it that soon - unless it was understood to be a temporary position. You're perfectly free to quit that other job of course, but the impression it gives is that you're flighty and indecisive, and don't understand the costs and schedule impacts of hiring, and will just as likely do that to us to if an even bigger/better firm comes along in a week or a month. It costs a firm thousands of dollars in time to interview for a position, hire, and train a new employee - rule of thumb is losing a longer term employee is a $20k to $30k hit, though of course that will be lower if no time was expended yet to train them!. If you're going to keep interviewing be as discreet as possible, as fast as possible in reaching a decision, and respect the impacts on everybody's time and work scheduling.
AlinaF
Sep 20, 18 1:55 pm
Be careful about taking the starchitect job because one thing you don't know is how long you can last in there. You might want out in 6 months. Regardless of whether you are offered the job or not, establish a long term connections with the interviewers. If you impress them they will remember you and you can have an open door to jump ship when the time is right. To be honest though, starchitect people don't like getting turned down. I very politely turned down a starchitect recently to take a job at a larger corporate firm (see relevant thread). After declining the offer the interviewer removed me from their Linkedin connections. Snobbish.
archinet
Sep 20, 18 1:55 pm
Do the interview- ask them what your role will be and what project in mind they have you working on and your future prospects there, and tell them you are already have an offer. Be honest. Just because you have an interview does not preclude you will get the job. Not all starchitect experience is bad though. I worked at a starchitect (before they got really to that starchitect status) and lucky for me it was the best experience I got- honestly I worked on some of the design and then got to work on the details as well and the project is built. However this is a very rare case.
whistler
Sep 20, 18 1:56 pm
Go to the interview but find out what your tasks would amount to before you jump over to the Starchitect firm. Lots of these firms prey on young architects who will bleed to work for them and never get any real practical experience..... don't go in as a "fan boy/fan girl"
Kkarchitecture
Sep 20, 18 2:20 pm
To be honest, my current corporate job has me working on a 1.2 million square foot project, working crazy hours, and our client and interior designer consultants are very high profile—it’s possible that I’ve already gotten the starchitect experience, just without the Starchitect. On top of this fact, I feel like I have a pretty balanced understanding of this firms culture by talking with employees there. They are at a
high echelon in terms of design but the experience has left a lot of people wanting, thus the high turnover. I know some folks who migrated from other notable offices to this firm and actually lamented their time at those firms, despite those firms having a reputation for overworking their staff. It’s easy to get blinded by the name and reputation, but I definitely feel I’m going in with no illusions of grandeur.
thisisnotmyname
Sep 20, 18 3:47 pm
For me, the benefit of being starchitect-adjacent was the exposure to high-end building materials, world class consultants, and top-notch construction people. It sounds like you have got that already. Starchitect offices are often no fun to work in. The small firm will probably have a lot more future advancement opportunities for you. When the starchitect gets too old and/or their work becomes passe, that office will go into a downward trajectory.
About four months ago I applied to a famous firm in my city—never heard back and assumed that I didn’t get it. A small firm with really great work, albeit a good portion of it being small remodels, was looking to hire so I went on a few interviews and excitedly took the job. I’m really enthralled about the small firm, especially coming from a corporate environment—but the caliber of the work being done at the second firm is really quite high. Honestly I feel privileged to be in this situation, both firms are wonderful in their own way. I just don’t want to burn any bridges by taking the interview—and even worse, reneging on the job acceptance.
(forget to post) Any advice/perspective would be really valuable!
it’s an interview - not an official job offer, isn’t it? are you sure you will eventually get hired by the starchitect firm? i honestly would just tell the truth to the small studio and ask for advice from them. i may be too unrealistic but if i were an employer (who i have never been!) i would want my employee to fully devote himself to my studio. so i would let he/she try (so no regrets) and decide after all.
it’s up to you. i mean just go and talk to the starchitect firm. let’s see how it goes. it’s possible that you hate the starchitect firm right away and never want to work for them. who knows?
Years ago I had a colleague who did something similar - she accepted Firm A's offer and worked there for about a week, but then received a more attractive offer from bigger-name Firm B and resigned from Firm A. But it turned out that, unbeknownst to her, her boss at Firm A was the spouse of a manager at Firm B, and when he found out about it they rescinded their offer because of her unprofessional conduct in leaving the other firm shorthanded on short notice - so in the end she ended up still looking for a job, and with the people from two firms unhappy with her. Architecture is a small world and that kind of thing can hurt your reputation.
If you've already started working in the small firm, then I'd say that unless there's some major dysfunction or poor fit situation there you should stay and not interview right now at the other firm. If you haven't already started at the small firm then it would be slightly less bad to back out before you start - tell them you're very sorry for the inconvenience, you appreciate all the time and consideration they put in in their hiring process, but you've had a change in circumstances that makes you unable to accept their offer after all... But of course you should only do that if you actually have an offer from the 2nd firm, which you don't yet, so you'll need to get Firm B to drastically speed up their hiring process (which you may be able to do by explaining that you have another offer from a firm that wants you to start nearly immediately, but that you're very interested in Firm B.) If you can't get them to speed this up so that you'd have an offer before your start date with Firm A, then I'd say let the idea of Firm B go for now, and revisit things with them in the future, if/when you're ready for a job change.
i wouldn't follow this advice.. this is a unique scenario that probably has more to do with the fact that the person didn't give the standard 2 weeks notice.
as someone who has been laid off twice in a year (company A laid me off, said company B is looking for help.. company B dangles carrot but decides not to hire..), the company does not love you back and will do what's best for the company. you should do likewise and do what is best for you. just be reasonable and respectful and all will work out.
I agree with Bloopox. Architects can be very petty. Its like the saying "Everything is a big deal in academia, cuz the stakes are so small"
Happens all the time, if you do get a good offer from the starchitect and you really want to take it, go for it...but give the other office a decent amount of time to find a replacement, don't be an asshole :) Congrats!
Fortunately I haven’t started yet and won’t for a month, but also feel like the small firm is a great opportunity for very different reasons. Both principles have amazing backgrounds at the small firm but the firm is just in the process of establishing itself, so the work is a lot smaller—albeit beautiful and progressive. The studio I would be in at the large firm does museums mostly, which is an awesome experience in and of itself. My fear is the starchitect will be too close to where I’m at now and pigeonhole me, on the flipside maybe the opportunities to do work of that caliber will never present themselves at the small firm. It’s quite the conundrum!
We had a junior guy do that to us this summer. He got a job offer while finishing up school and, 4-6weeks go by and on his scheduled first day, tells the office he's accepted an offer. People were pissed and it is certain that that guy's name has been passed around to other firms.
Thanks for the reply! I would definitely not wait that long to tell them, I just accepted the offer and would tell them right away to not put them in a bad position. My inclination is to just turn down the starchitect because j
I feel that I could contribute more and grow more at the smaller firm.
Apparently archinect is not the most mobile friendly sight, this the typos!
Mobile app sucks.... Best to open in a browser to access reply and edit features. If you're still early in your career, exposure to everything, shiny and dirty, will always be in your favour. Can't hurt to take the interview tho as that is also important just to see what others value in you.
At a 'starchitect' firm you will most likely be doing zero, zip, nada, no design work and they will not value your opinion in the least. Frank Gehry's firm said as much in one of their ads seeking computer drudges.
Keep your self-respect and reputation intact and stay with the smaller firm.
smart
This is my inclination as well—before applying I met with an ex employee of the firm and she mentioned something along these lines, more concerning was the low pay—and she had about 8 years of experience at other high-end
forms
She also recently applied for the same position I was given, which maybe is another indicator.
nvm
been there before. here's what i recommend:
interview at the starchitect office. no harm no foul. see what happens after u interview. if u get an offer then it will help u decide on what to do. all these comments saying you should decide if you should work at the starchitect office before you get an offer are pointless. u want options.
If the starchitects make you an offer, I wouldn't hesitate to be honest with them--let them know u already accepted an offer (this will also increase your perceived value to them). then do the usually research to find out more about the office.
i wouldn't worry about upsetting this or that office. its business. go where you want when you want. TBH if u come across an employer who doesn't understand that (a la, employer fires you for interviewing somewhere else or rescinds an offer, etc) then you probably don't want to work with them.
My firm would definitely not hire someone who discloses that they've already recently accepted another offer and are considering leaving it that soon - unless it was understood to be a temporary position. You're perfectly free to quit that other job of course, but the impression it gives is that you're flighty and indecisive, and don't understand the costs and schedule impacts of hiring, and will just as likely do that to us to if an even bigger/better firm comes along in a week or a month. It costs a firm thousands of dollars in time to interview for a position, hire, and train a new employee - rule of thumb is losing a longer term employee is a $20k to $30k hit, though of course that will be lower if no time was expended yet to train them!. If you're going to keep interviewing be as discreet as possible, as fast as possible in reaching a decision, and respect the impacts on everybody's time and work scheduling.
Be careful about taking the starchitect job because one thing you don't know is how long you can last in there. You might want out in 6 months. Regardless of whether you are offered the job or not, establish a long term connections with the interviewers. If you impress them they will remember you and you can have an open door to jump ship when the time is right. To be honest though, starchitect people don't like getting turned down. I very politely turned down a starchitect recently to take a job at a larger corporate firm (see relevant thread). After declining the offer the interviewer removed me from their Linkedin connections. Snobbish.
Do the interview- ask them what your role will be and what project in mind they have you working on and your future prospects there, and tell them you are already have an offer. Be honest. Just because you have an interview does not preclude you will get the job. Not all starchitect experience is bad though. I worked at a starchitect (before they got really to that starchitect status) and lucky for me it was the best experience I got- honestly I worked on some of the design and then got to work on the details as well and the project is built. However this is a very rare case.
Go to the interview but find out what your tasks would amount to before you jump over to the Starchitect firm. Lots of these firms prey on young architects who will bleed to work for them and never get any real practical experience..... don't go in as a "fan boy/fan girl"
To be honest, my current corporate job has me working on a 1.2 million square foot project, working crazy hours, and our client and interior designer consultants are very high profile—it’s possible that I’ve already gotten the starchitect experience, just without the Starchitect. On top of this fact, I feel like I have a pretty balanced understanding of this firms culture by talking with employees there. They are at a
high echelon in terms of design but the experience has left a lot of people wanting, thus the high turnover. I know some folks who migrated from other notable offices to this firm and actually lamented their time at those firms, despite those firms having a reputation for overworking their staff. It’s easy to get blinded by the name and reputation, but I definitely feel I’m going in with no illusions of grandeur.
For me, the benefit of being starchitect-adjacent was the exposure to high-end building materials, world class consultants, and top-notch construction people. It sounds like you have got that already. Starchitect offices are often no fun to work in. The small firm will probably have a lot more future advancement opportunities for you. When the starchitect gets too old and/or their work becomes passe, that office will go into a downward trajectory.
again, mobile app formatting issues above!