Hi guys, do you have any references regarding placebo effect applied in architecture?
or..what do you guys think?
garthglasses
Sep 10, 18 4:22 am
This question is for everyone, all im asking for is opinions or references.
Help a friend out, please do it nicely, you dont need to be rude if you think the question is stupid or non sense :-)
Thank you!
Peter Normand
Sep 10, 18 10:32 am
Placebo you would mean fake or false. The best example is the stage sett of the Disneyland main street where the upstairs windows and other elements are meant to give the impression that the building is bigger than you might initially perceive it to be and that there are actual businesses and other things going on when it is all literally window dressing. This is also true of the Cinderella castles in all of the Disney parks as they are actually much smaller than they appear but the siting and the landscaping make it nearly impossible to put a scale to it.
There are other examples where airplane factories during world war 2 used all manner of camouflage to disguise their facilities from enemy bombers.
I hope this helps
Over and OUT
Peter N
JLC-1
Sep 10, 18 11:34 am
yes, it started with disney, you know that's not a real castle, but your princess doesn't. then duany and seaside, and now it's the chinese popping european towns all over. it makes you feel like you're not really living a shitty life if you're somewhere else.
Non Sequitur
Sep 10, 18 11:42 am
Better topic than electrosmog... but only slight.
As a tangent to the above comments regarding disney, are you using the placebo term to signify the dumb feng-shuay design decisions too many abide by? aka, can't put plumbing in corners or else the ghost will climb up the drains and steel your wallet... or raising the ground floor to let the dragon spirits reach the ocean... or whatever, it's all made up goodlygook anyways... but since people "feel" better knowing their dumb superstitions are catered too, I guess this is a form of architectural placebo.
The north-american obsession with avoidance of 13th floor (or Chinese 4th) in buildings also comes to mind. You know you're on the 13th floor, but feel better because it's not labeled as such. Means nothing to intelligent people, but whatever. Dumb people have money too, so I guess we gota given them what they pay for.
Bloopox
Sep 10, 18 12:02 pm
I've heard anecdotes about fake building interventions that had placebo effects on occupants. Example: a large local institution supposedly paid "electricians" to install thermostats in each room, and told workers that they now had individual control of the heat and AC, after which a majority of the occupants reported being much more comfortable and happy with their work environment - but the thermostats weren't wired to anything.
A potential problem is that it may be difficult to find these precedents, because obviously they only work as long as they fool the occupants, so where they're working nobody's going to want to publicize them.
Maybe you could do your own research project - for instance find a location where you can install real tubular skylights in an office or classroom environment, and a very similar location where you can install fake tubular skylights (drill real holes, install real tubes, but provide simulated outdoor light via controlled lighting fixtures) - and record comparative health and happiness of the occupants of the rooms with real tubes, fake tubes, and no tubes.
joseffischer
Sep 12, 18 7:44 am
A lot of school systems do that thermostat trick for the teachers, except it is usually wired to a fan at least. They move the dial, the fan comes on, they assume it's working... until (and not always) some feel like it's not working and they start testing it and find that it does nothing and then you've got a bunch of grumpy teachers.
mightyaa
Sep 10, 18 2:51 pm
Ha Bloopox... I did that on a school remodel once. Zoned mechanical system and classroom temperature complaints. So, the administrators had me instruct the GC to put in thermostats, inclusive of the anti-tampering box over the thermostat. Teachers complaints started fading and the principal even told me he caught a teacher trying to turn it up using a paperclip through the holes in the anti-tamper box...
I've also seen fake skylights and windows... basically a light behind a semi-transparent glazing.
There is also the old mirror trick. Adding mirrors makes the space seem bigger than it is.. Versailles hall of mirrors.
And there's entasis... creating a false perspective to make it seem taller.
I also swear Baroque architecture used all sorts of perspective tricks.
And then there is LasVegas...
mightyaa
Sep 10, 18 2:59 pm
You also might look into neuroscience crossovers in architecture. I think there are studies out there. Little things like preconceived notions of layout and direction people bring into places they've never been. So; bathrooms, water fountain near the elevator core, suite numbering alignment with floor levels, services off the lobby you'll find, street numbering and addresses, etc.
Not so much placebo as much as disconcerting when stuff doesn't fit into the norms. So maybe you can tie placebo into design norms and standards people just take for granted until they run across something entirely different.
citizen
Sep 10, 18 6:57 pm
Regency-style terrace houses in London. Big manor estate! Nope, just a narrow slice.
garthglasses
Sep 11, 18 12:41 am
Do you guys think it could be applied in a health facility or maybe a wellness facility?
Would it actually change the way people behave towards a space?
Non Sequitur
Sep 11, 18 9:37 am
Your problem is in using a loaded term like placebo (or even wellness, fuck I hate that term). Be specific: are you interested in how design can influence people's mood and therefore aid in recovery? If so, start with case studies and medical papers. See what they say works and see if you can build upon that. Don't focus on gluing fake things into rehab centers in a way to trick people... why use superstition and hope things work out in the end for the patient when you could learn how to work with real design mechanics? For example, large hospital complexes now have auto-tin-table windows in recovery rooms. No need for blinds so there is always a connection to the outside. Might not actually heal your broken leg, but you won't be as miserable waiting in that room.
Marc Miller
Sep 11, 18 10:02 am
Wasn't high postmodernism a placebo?
randomised
Sep 11, 18 10:04 am
I assume you already studied homeopathic solutions and architecture?
Non Sequitur
Sep 11, 18 11:35 am
Actually spending any time studying homepathic is counter-productive. Less is super-duper more in this case, so knowing literally nothing makes one an homepathic wizard.
randomised
Sep 11, 18 11:53 am
So, Mies was a homeopathic architect :)
Non Sequitur
Sep 11, 18 12:04 pm
as is RickyB.
Wilma Buttfit
Sep 11, 18 11:07 am
First you should know what you mean by placebo. Like take these studies that say that the placebo group made just as many gains/results as the control group. It means you can change your environment and your physical state just by thinking differently. Scientifically proven by the... placebo effect. What else has that much research behind it?
Hi guys, do you have any references regarding placebo effect applied in architecture?
or..what do you guys think?
This question is for everyone, all im asking for is opinions or references.
Help a friend out, please do it nicely, you dont need to be rude if you think the question is stupid or non sense :-)
Thank you!
Placebo you would mean fake or false. The best example is the stage sett of the Disneyland main street where the upstairs windows and other elements are meant to give the impression that the building is bigger than you might initially perceive it to be and that there are actual businesses and other things going on when it is all literally window dressing. This is also true of the Cinderella castles in all of the Disney parks as they are actually much smaller than they appear but the siting and the landscaping make it nearly impossible to put a scale to it.
There are other examples where airplane factories during world war 2 used all manner of camouflage to disguise their facilities from enemy bombers.
I hope this helps
Over and OUT
Peter N
yes, it started with disney, you know that's not a real castle, but your princess doesn't. then duany and seaside, and now it's the chinese popping european towns all over. it makes you feel like you're not really living a shitty life if you're somewhere else.
Better topic than electrosmog... but only slight.
As a tangent to the above comments regarding disney, are you using the placebo term to signify the dumb feng-shuay design decisions too many abide by? aka, can't put plumbing in corners or else the ghost will climb up the drains and steel your wallet... or raising the ground floor to let the dragon spirits reach the ocean... or whatever, it's all made up goodlygook anyways... but since people "feel" better knowing their dumb superstitions are catered too, I guess this is a form of architectural placebo.
The north-american obsession with avoidance of 13th floor (or Chinese 4th) in buildings also comes to mind. You know you're on the 13th floor, but feel better because it's not labeled as such. Means nothing to intelligent people, but whatever. Dumb people have money too, so I guess we gota given them what they pay for.
I've heard anecdotes about fake building interventions that had placebo effects on occupants. Example: a large local institution supposedly paid "electricians" to install thermostats in each room, and told workers that they now had individual control of the heat and AC, after which a majority of the occupants reported being much more comfortable and happy with their work environment - but the thermostats weren't wired to anything.
A potential problem is that it may be difficult to find these precedents, because obviously they only work as long as they fool the occupants, so where they're working nobody's going to want to publicize them.
Maybe you could do your own research project - for instance find a location where you can install real tubular skylights in an office or classroom environment, and a very similar location where you can install fake tubular skylights (drill real holes, install real tubes, but provide simulated outdoor light via controlled lighting fixtures) - and record comparative health and happiness of the occupants of the rooms with real tubes, fake tubes, and no tubes.
A lot of school systems do that thermostat trick for the teachers, except it is usually wired to a fan at least. They move the dial, the fan comes on, they assume it's working... until (and not always) some feel like it's not working and they start testing it and find that it does nothing and then you've got a bunch of grumpy teachers.
Ha Bloopox... I did that on a school remodel once. Zoned mechanical system and classroom temperature complaints. So, the administrators had me instruct the GC to put in thermostats, inclusive of the anti-tampering box over the thermostat. Teachers complaints started fading and the principal even told me he caught a teacher trying to turn it up using a paperclip through the holes in the anti-tamper box...
I've also seen fake skylights and windows... basically a light behind a semi-transparent glazing.
There is also the old mirror trick. Adding mirrors makes the space seem bigger than it is.. Versailles hall of mirrors.
And there's entasis... creating a false perspective to make it seem taller.
I also swear Baroque architecture used all sorts of perspective tricks.
And then there is LasVegas...
You also might look into neuroscience crossovers in architecture. I think there are studies out there. Little things like preconceived notions of layout and direction people bring into places they've never been. So; bathrooms, water fountain near the elevator core, suite numbering alignment with floor levels, services off the lobby you'll find, street numbering and addresses, etc.
Not so much placebo as much as disconcerting when stuff doesn't fit into the norms. So maybe you can tie placebo into design norms and standards people just take for granted until they run across something entirely different.
Regency-style terrace houses in London. Big manor estate! Nope, just a narrow slice.
Do you guys think it could be applied in a health facility or maybe a wellness facility?
Would it actually change the way people behave towards a space?
Your problem is in using a loaded term like placebo (or even wellness, fuck I hate that term). Be specific: are you interested in how design can influence people's mood and therefore aid in recovery? If so, start with case studies and medical papers. See what they say works and see if you can build upon that. Don't focus on gluing fake things into rehab centers in a way to trick people... why use superstition and hope things work out in the end for the patient when you could learn how to work with real design mechanics? For example, large hospital complexes now have auto-tin-table windows in recovery rooms. No need for blinds so there is always a connection to the outside. Might not actually heal your broken leg, but you won't be as miserable waiting in that room.
Wasn't high postmodernism a placebo?
I assume you already studied homeopathic solutions and architecture?
Actually spending any time studying homepathic is counter-productive. Less is super-duper more in this case, so knowing literally nothing makes one an homepathic wizard.
So, Mies was a homeopathic architect :)
as is RickyB.
First you should know what you mean by placebo. Like take these studies that say that the placebo group made just as many gains/results as the control group. It means you can change your environment and your physical state just by thinking differently. Scientifically proven by the... placebo effect. What else has that much research behind it?