So I’ve been working as an independent contractor for an architect for 3 years. I got accepted into SCI-Arc as an undergrad 2 years working under this architect. Before all this happened I was taking classes at a junior college. In this gig, I have learned how to do design drawings and construction drawings although I have never handled/ran projects on my own yet because the architect is such a control freak, otherwise I know I won’t have a difficult time running a project. But I am a good designer and the fact that I have knowledge in CDs makes me more valuable. Lately I’ve been feeling because minimum wage recently increased that I should also be making more. When I started at this job I was offered $15/hr but the architect offered me $16 after 2 years of working with him and it’s been the same. I just want to get some insight on how much I should be getting paid on an hourly basis for my capabilities. I know I’m an independent contractor and I can propose/demand a new rate for my services but I never presented him a contract to sign when I started working with him so I just wanna know if I’m being greedy to think that I deserve $18/hr at this point now. I know I haven’t graduated but I have the experience. I’d appreciate some realistic and honest thoughts.
JLC-1
Jul 2, 18 11:46 am
apply to a job and you will find out - but $18 is what my son is making as a summer lifeguard at the local pool. He's probably billing your work at $90/hr. If that's the case you should be getting at least $35/hr. run away from control freaks, work and otherwise...
bowling_ball
Jul 2, 18 7:39 pm
Hahahaha
joseffischer
Jul 3, 18 8:16 am
Probably more considering that 1/3 rule is supposed to also include insurance/benefits, which he's not receiving as a contractor. When I was in your shoes I started at $20, but since I was not employed I also went after a lot of work, 70/30 clients/architects. Everyone's efficiency is different but my rate for architects ended up hovering around $50-$65 after a few years. I had been severely lowballing myself earlier at $20. Also, those who paid me $20, most of them found other younger/inexperienced people to replace me when I raised my rates, so don't expect to keep the same scum when you finally treat yourself right.
You are likely worth more, especially as an IC. I would think $20-22/hr maybe even $25. But, the market... what you get paid is always based on what someone will pay.
kjdt
Jul 2, 18 12:25 pm
Are you working in this architect's office? Do you use his equipment, tools, or software? Does he set your deadlines? Does he have any say in your methods of completing the work? If the answers to any of these are yes then you're mis-classified as an independent contractor.
thisisnotmyname
Jul 2, 18 1:00 pm
+1. This is absolutely correct. (and not widely known or obeyed by architects)
isabellesaspa
Jul 5, 18 6:17 pm
YES, he has his own office. I come in and use his equipment, an outdated computer that can barely run AutoCAD. And yes yes yes. I feel like I'm an intern for an architect except that I get zero benefits or vacation, and I have to pay taxes at the end of the year.
Volunteer
Jul 2, 18 12:44 pm
You are providing your own medical coverage, trying to put money away in a Roth IRA or IRA, and paying down student loans? Not a penny less than $50 a hour. $75 would not be out of line.
molten
Jul 2, 18 12:46 pm
You need a new job, ASAP.
SneakyPete
Jul 2, 18 12:52 pm
You're not independent if you're afraid to charge what you're worth. You're just cheap, disposable labor. You're part of the problem and are blind to that reality. Shitty employers like the person screwing you over rely on your ignorance combined with the myth of a bootstrapping 'MURICA to keep wages depressed and workers in line.
Quit. Don't think about it, there's no need. Just quit.
thisisnotmyname
Jul 2, 18 1:09 pm
We were quoted $25/hr by an outfit that is offshore in Central America. I would thus charge at least that as an IC.
I suspect, however, you are probably a mis-classified regular employee.
In my experience, switching jobs is the best way to increase your pay. Your boss may be charging low design fees to clients based on his super-cheap labor (that's you) and may not be able to give you a raise.
isabellesaspa
Jul 5, 18 10:50 pm
He bills $90/hr for my time. And pays me $16/hr. It’s a small office therefore overhead expenses are minimal. We don’t even have an accountant or an hr. It’s just us two “independent contractors” and him.
joseffischer
Jul 6, 18 10:04 am
*shocked* You can work for me at $45/hour if you let me bill $90/hour and I'll pocket the other $45 in return for giving you redlines. Now all we need are clients!
s=r*(theta)
Jul 2, 18 5:14 pm
To many moving parts:
Were are you located? you only have 3yrs of work experience? school and practice are 2 different things, and you were at a Juco? are you working full time or partime? are you just picking up redlines and drafting hand sketches and have to be told you missed things 2-3 times, or are you actually taking projects from start to finish with minimal supervision? Is the "architect" bring you along and up or are you always impressing? do you have any other skill sets besides drafting? are you modeling, pulling marketing materials together, CA services, ENERGY MODELING, code analysis, scheduling, pulling samples, project coordination, etc.. in my mind 18/hr-20 is about correct if he/she is billing you higher than $65hr then maybe 25/30 is more appropriate.
joseffischer
Jul 3, 18 8:19 am
$18-20 as an intern employee with benefits, etc... not as an independent contractor
isabellesaspa
Jul 5, 18 6:36 pm
I'm located in Los Angeles. Yeah I work full-time 40hr weeks. I do a little bit of everything, picking up redlines, drafting hand sketchesm, physical 3D models.. I also do 3D modeling although I dont do a lot of it at this job because this architect is super old school. He also would have me to do conceptual sketches, design sketches of custom fixture, furniture, etc, and lately he has been having pick materials and ordering samples, etc. I also do code research sometimes although not always, the guy I work with does that since he's more into that stuff. He would send me to the city occasionally to talk to planners, and he also would to take me with him to meetings with potential clients. He delegates more of the project management tasks to the guy I work with who already got his architecture degree at CalPoly Pomona and trying to get his license (he's 30yrs old, getting paid $17.50/hr).
joseffischer
Jul 6, 18 10:05 am
Do you like job sites? You could go frame houses for $25/hour
isabellesaspa
Jul 6, 18 11:01 am
Haha I do like job sites! I just do not like getting stared at and hollered at at job sites, so pro
bably not anytime soon..
OneLostArchitect
Jul 2, 18 5:26 pm
If you are getting a 1099 at the end of the year at least 30+. When I was a stupid young intern I took a job minimum wage for a star architect. I was just star struck that I wasn’t thinking straight I guess. Anyways i got a 1099 at end of a year and can you guy what my take home was! Wow
ArchNyen
Jul 2, 18 6:48 pm
RickB-Astoria, as always, please site your sourses.
SpontaneousCombustion
Jul 2, 18 6:53 pm
Ugh. This seems like another troll, along the lines of Shaw, except a clueless, exploited student personality.
If it's for real: the employer is breaking the law by classifying her as an independent contractor. He probably knows that - but he also knows she'll eventually want him to be a reference, and to sign off on this experience for NCARB, so she's not going to rat him out to the DOL. It's a mutually exploitive relationship and they deserve each other - and minimum wage.
isabellesaspa
Jul 5, 18 11:10 pm
I can get a job somewhere else, I know that. However, due to my naivety I assumed that he was being fair and so I stayed. And I have gathered valuable experience. I went to this forum to be informed, not for negativity. Nobody needs your BS. So do everybody here who likes to help a favor and F**k off, sir
. Thanks
archinine
Jul 2, 18 7:16 pm
For a large metro $20 is bare minimum if the contractor is even remotely productive. However, students and interns often believe they are more productive than they are. After 2+ years at the same place though, it’s likely that you are far more valuable than when you began, if for no other reason but knowing the ins and outs of this particular practice.
Your best bet is to apply for other positions and ask for pay based on Glassdoor, pay scale and AIA surveys. The market is booming. Further it’s good when you’re first starting out to get a broad range of experience in different offices.
isabellesaspa
Jul 5, 18 7:38 pm
I think so too, because I have been working directly under him, whereas if I had chosen to work at a big firm, the learning part would be minimal and low priority. It’s mostly the reason why I stay. I actually learn how things go and how projects are run up close. I have been learning how to put CDs together and what to look for and what details to draw. I really feel like I have observed enough and that I deserve a shot at running a project, of course still with little support, I acknowledge that I am still a guppy compared to people who have 10 years of experience.
joseffischer
Jul 6, 18 10:08 am
Sounds like the experience you earned has put you in a good place to finally get a real job. The market is hot right now. Put your portfolio together, including some of the CDs you've worked on, and get get yourself something at least over $55,000 with benefits and PTO
. Good luck!
isabellesaspa
Jul 5, 18 8:27 pm
I'm still here because he has mentioned making me partner after I finish my undergrad. He said the same thing to my coworker. We have a big project coming that guarantees 3-4 years of steady income, he also is considering raising my rate to $18-$19/hr. And so I really want to be a part of it.
Non Sequitur
Jul 5, 18 10:55 pm
$19/hr? that's rough. Where is this?
isabellesaspa
Jul 5, 18 11:13 pm
Los Angeles
Non Sequitur
Jul 5, 18 11:17 pm
So you're a fan of slavery, cool... I guess. Better start looking for a real gig soon.
bowling_ball
Jul 5, 18 11:44 pm
Isabelle, as an employee in LA you shouldn't be making less than about $20/hr. If you're contracting, multiply that by at least 2, if not 2.5. But clearly you're an employee. No joke, at $19/hr as an independent contractor you're barely making above minimum wage.
Non Sequitur
Jul 6, 18 8:22 am
Bowling... certainly Isabelle's firms did not pay near $18/hr for their web developer. That website is hideous.
Steeplechase
Jul 6, 18 8:50 am
How can you trust what you learn from someone who seems to have illegally classified you as an independent contractor to screw you over?
isabellesaspa
Jul 6, 18 10:08 am
Well he does get projects approved and built.
bowling_ball
Jul 6, 18 11:33 am
That has nothing to do with their quality as an employer.
isabellesaspa
Jul 6, 18 10:07 am
Damn. Well thanks for all the insightful comments, you guys were very helpful. I will be sending out my CV and secure a position somewhere else first and just stop showing up at this current office. And report him to the DOL ASAP. Can’t let this motherfuck abuse more people.
Archlandia
Jul 6, 18 10:38 am
You're getting screwed.
Here is a solid way to check how much you're worth in your area. People can say what they want about AIA, but this is a great tool https://info.aia.org/salary/
randomised
Jul 6, 18 12:27 pm
We have a collective labour agreement in the Netherlands. Based on your responsibilities and experience you always have a decent benchmark.
So I’ve been working as an independent contractor for an architect for 3 years. I got accepted into SCI-Arc as an undergrad 2 years working under this architect. Before all this happened I was taking classes at a junior college. In this gig, I have learned how to do design drawings and construction drawings although I have never handled/ran projects on my own yet because the architect is such a control freak, otherwise I know I won’t have a difficult time running a project. But I am a good designer and the fact that I have knowledge in CDs makes me more valuable. Lately I’ve been feeling because minimum wage recently increased that I should also be making more. When I started at this job I was offered $15/hr but the architect offered me $16 after 2 years of working with him and it’s been the same. I just want to get some insight on how much I should be getting paid on an hourly basis for my capabilities. I know I’m an independent contractor and I can propose/demand a new rate for my services but I never presented him a contract to sign when I started working with him so I just wanna know if I’m being greedy to think that I deserve $18/hr at this point now. I know I haven’t graduated but I have the experience. I’d appreciate some realistic and honest thoughts.
apply to a job and you will find out - but $18 is what my son is making as a summer lifeguard at the local pool. He's probably billing your work at $90/hr. If that's the case you should be getting at least $35/hr. run away from control freaks, work and otherwise...
Hahahaha
Probably more considering that 1/3 rule is supposed to also include insurance/benefits, which he's not receiving as a contractor. When I was in your shoes I started at $20, but since I was not employed I also went after a lot of work, 70/30 clients/architects. Everyone's efficiency is different but my rate for architects ended up hovering around $50-$65 after a few years. I had been severely lowballing myself earlier at $20. Also, those who paid me $20, most of them found other younger/inexperienced people to replace me when I raised my rates, so don't expect to keep the same scum when you finally treat yourself right.
Yeah he does bill $90/hour for my time.
Maybe this helps: http://salaries.archinect.com/...
You are likely worth more, especially as an IC. I would think $20-22/hr maybe even $25. But, the market... what you get paid is always based on what someone will pay.
Are you working in this architect's office? Do you use his equipment, tools, or software? Does he set your deadlines? Does he have any say in your methods of completing the work? If the answers to any of these are yes then you're mis-classified as an independent contractor.
+1. This is absolutely correct. (and not widely known or obeyed by architects)
YES, he has his own office. I come in and use his equipment, an outdated computer that can barely run AutoCAD. And yes yes yes. I feel like I'm an intern for an architect except that I get zero benefits or vacation, and I have to pay taxes at the end of the year.
You are providing your own medical coverage, trying to put money away in a Roth IRA or IRA, and paying down student loans? Not a penny less than $50 a hour. $75 would not be out of line.
You need a new job, ASAP.
You're not independent if you're afraid to charge what you're worth. You're just cheap, disposable labor. You're part of the problem and are blind to that reality. Shitty employers like the person screwing you over rely on your ignorance combined with the myth of a bootstrapping 'MURICA to keep wages depressed and workers in line.
Quit. Don't think about it, there's no need. Just quit.
We were quoted $25/hr by an outfit that is offshore in Central America. I would thus charge at least that as an IC.
I suspect, however, you are probably a mis-classified regular employee.
In my experience, switching jobs is the best way to increase your pay. Your boss may be charging low design fees to clients based on his super-cheap labor (that's you) and may not be able to give you a raise.
He bills $90/hr for my time. And pays me $16/hr. It’s a small office therefore overhead expenses are minimal. We don’t even have an accountant or an hr. It’s just us two “independent contractors” and him.
*shocked* You can work for me at $45/hour if you let me bill $90/hour and I'll pocket the other $45 in return for giving you redlines. Now all we need are clients!
To many moving parts:
Were are you located? you only have 3yrs of work experience? school and practice are 2 different things, and you were at a Juco? are you working full time or partime? are you just picking up redlines and drafting hand sketches and have to be told you missed things 2-3 times, or are you actually taking projects from start to finish with minimal supervision? Is the "architect" bring you along and up or are you always impressing? do you have any other skill sets besides drafting? are you modeling, pulling marketing materials together, CA services, ENERGY MODELING, code analysis, scheduling, pulling samples, project coordination, etc.. in my mind 18/hr-20 is about correct if he/she is billing you higher than $65hr then maybe 25/30 is more appropriate.
$18-20 as an intern employee with benefits, etc... not as an independent contractor
I'm located in Los Angeles. Yeah I work full-time 40hr weeks. I do a little bit of everything, picking up redlines, drafting hand sketchesm, physical 3D models.. I also do 3D modeling although I dont do a lot of it at this job because this architect is super old school. He also would have me to do conceptual sketches, design sketches of custom fixture, furniture, etc, and lately he has been having pick materials and ordering samples, etc. I also do code research sometimes although not always, the guy I work with does that since he's more into that stuff. He would send me to the city occasionally to talk to planners, and he also would to take me with him to meetings with potential clients. He delegates more of the project management tasks to the guy I work with who already got his architecture degree at CalPoly Pomona and trying to get his license (he's 30yrs old, getting paid $17.50/hr).
Do you like job sites? You could go frame houses for $25/hour
Haha I do like job sites! I just do not like getting stared at and hollered at at job sites, so pro
bably not anytime soon..
If you are getting a 1099 at the end of the year at least 30+. When I was a stupid young intern I took a job minimum wage for a star architect. I was just star struck that I wasn’t thinking straight I guess. Anyways i got a 1099 at end of a year and can you guy what my take home was! Wow
RickB-Astoria, as always, please site your sourses.
Ugh. This seems like another troll, along the lines of Shaw, except a clueless, exploited student personality.
If it's for real: the employer is breaking the law by classifying her as an independent contractor. He probably knows that - but he also knows she'll eventually want him to be a reference, and to sign off on this experience for NCARB, so she's not going to rat him out to the DOL. It's a mutually exploitive relationship and they deserve each other - and minimum wage.
I can get a job somewhere else, I know that. However, due to my naivety I assumed that he was being fair and so I stayed. And I have gathered valuable experience. I went to this forum to be informed, not for negativity. Nobody needs your BS. So do everybody here who likes to help a favor and F**k off, sir
. Thanks
For a large metro $20 is bare minimum if the contractor is even remotely productive. However, students and interns often believe they are more productive than they are. After 2+ years at the same place though, it’s likely that you are far more valuable than when you began, if for no other reason but knowing the ins and outs of this particular practice.
Your best bet is to apply for other positions and ask for pay based on Glassdoor, pay scale and AIA surveys. The market is booming. Further it’s good when you’re first starting out to get a broad range of experience in different offices.
I think so too, because I have been working directly under him, whereas if I had chosen to work at a big firm, the learning part would be minimal and low priority. It’s mostly the reason why I stay. I actually learn how things go and how projects are run up close. I have been learning how to put CDs together and what to look for and what details to draw. I really feel like I have observed enough and that I deserve a shot at running a project, of course still with little support, I acknowledge that I am still a guppy compared to people who have 10 years of experience.
Sounds like the experience you earned has put you in a good place to finally get a real job. The market is hot right now. Put your portfolio together, including some of the CDs you've worked on, and get get yourself something at least over $55,000 with benefits and PTO . Good luck!
I'm still here because he has mentioned making me partner after I finish my undergrad. He said the same thing to my coworker. We have a big project coming that guarantees 3-4 years of steady income, he also is considering raising my rate to $18-$19/hr. And so I really want to be a part of it.
$19/hr? that's rough. Where is this?
Los Angeles
So you're a fan of slavery, cool... I guess. Better start looking for a real gig soon.
Isabelle, as an employee in LA you shouldn't be making less than about $20/hr. If you're contracting, multiply that by at least 2, if not 2.5. But clearly you're an employee. No joke, at $19/hr as an independent contractor you're barely making above minimum wage.
Bowling... certainly Isabelle's firms did not pay near $18/hr for their web developer. That website is hideous.
How can you trust what you learn from someone who seems to have illegally classified you as an independent contractor to screw you over?
Well he does get projects approved and built.
That has nothing to do with their quality as an employer.
Damn. Well thanks for all the insightful comments, you guys were very helpful. I will be sending out my CV and secure a position somewhere else first and just stop showing up at this current office. And report him to the DOL ASAP. Can’t let this motherfuck abuse more people.
You're getting screwed.
Here is a solid way to check how much you're worth in your area. People can say what they want about AIA, but this is a great tool https://info.aia.org/salary/
We have a collective labour agreement in the Netherlands. Based on your responsibilities and experience you always have a decent benchmark.