I am a registered architect and I have been working in an architectural firm since I was 16. I am now 39 and have been out of architecture school since 2003. Depending on how you count my experience, I have between 15 to 21 years experience. I am an associate in my firm and I am a major source of bringing work into the firm. I am also a project manager for my company, which is an AE firm, so I manage all disciplines.
I find it difficult watching other "gray haired" architects stamp and sign my work. I have expressed a strong desire to stamp drawings. Yes I know it brings on much liability. However, I didn't get registered to have someone else be the Architect of Record for my work. I get more and more irritated by the fact that other architects get to stamp my work, when they know little to nothing about my projects.
What I hear is your young and or newly registered. However, I am not your typical newly registered architect. I've been running projects for a long time and I bring in most of the projects I want to stamp from clients I have worked hard to make happy. I perform my own Technical Quality Control Checks and Constructability Reviews with other disciplines.
What are your thoughts? I feel its a power thing for some of the older architects and I don't see the same attitude towards the engineering disciplines in my firm.
Non Sequitur
Jun 5, 18 6:23 am
Why are you working for someone else then? Start your own gig.
geezertect
Jun 5, 18 7:38 am
Exactly!
OneLostArchitect
Jun 5, 18 7:31 am
why would you want th liabilities?
senjohnblutarsky
Jun 5, 18 7:48 am
I'm thoroughly enjoying not stamping things. Not that I'd have a problem with doing so... I just don't have to.
Non Sequitur
Jun 5, 18 8:43 am
Same here. I do a great deal of the same as the OP lists but with the length of the stature of limitation in my area, I don't want to eat up liability 15 years down the road because some junior wanker slid something past our Q&A check.
mattakinbimwalker
Jun 5, 18 8:34 am
I am bringing in the work that is helping feed the office. I am managing client relations and getting the deliverables out. I am making the design decisions on my projects and managing the subs, if we use subs. I manage the financials. Why not stamp the drawings? Yes there's liability but that's part of the profession that is architecture.
I'd like to think that days and hours of no sleep, debt, blood, sweat and frustration through architecture school, exams and all my experiences thus far weren't just to put together a nice set of documents for someone else to stamp. If that was the case, what's the point in all the struggle? Was the point just taking home a paycheck and being able to use the title "Architect"?
Non Sequitur
Jun 5, 18 8:41 am
See above, start your own practice.
bowling_ball
Jun 5, 18 9:29 am
As others have said, start your own practice. Or make peace with your current situation (which sounds like my own, which is awesome). I literally have no idea why you're complaining. Nobody cares about who's name is on the stamp.
Do you really think that stamping principals at large firms go over every detail in every drawing?
Bloopox
Jun 5, 18 9:39 am
It's unusual for a non-owner in a firm to stamp and sign drawings - typically that only happens if they're somehow the only person in the firm licensed in the project's state, or if it's a firm where the owners are not licensed architects (in a state that allows that). Prior to going out on my own I only stamped drawings once - in a situation where I was the only person in the firm with a license in the project's state, and the owner's application for reciprocity in that state had been held up unexpectedly. It isn't something I'd recommend, as the liability follows the stamp, even after you don't work for that firm anymore and aren't covered by their insurance.
Rusty!
Jun 5, 18 9:48 am
For a 39 year old who has completely mastered the entire profession of Architecture, I am surprised how you lack understanding on why a large AE firm would not want their associates stamping shit.
You let people who have nowhere else to climb stamp drawings. They peaked and have nowhere else to go. You hold on to position of principal for dear life.
If you are a 'major source of bringing work' then you should be more upset that you are still only an associate.
Or perhaps your professional accomplishments are yet to catch up to your ego.
Non Sequitur
Jun 5, 18 9:51 am
um... yeah, that last point seems very appropriate.
Your ego is in the way of your success and your head is too for the hat you are wearing.
geezertect
Jun 5, 18 10:45 am
Now we've heard it all. OP is happy bringing in work like a partner but only being an associate. He's pissed at not having the liability of a partner even though only being an associate. Maybe he should also ask for a cut in pay so he could suffer even more like a true Architect. Hey, if he's got an Ivy degree he might be able to talk them into making him into an unpaid intern (while still bringing in work and exposing himself to lawsuits).
mattakinbimwalker
Jun 5, 18 10:52 am
Wow. Some of these comments got very negative / personal very fast. Guess I struck a nerve with someone unintentionally. Please review my posts and note that I never stated that I mastered the entire Architectural Profession. That's simply adding things I never stated. There's a difference between confidence and arrogance. I sincerely came here to get feedback from other professionals in other firms and not comments that are personal or attacking.
I appreciate the feedback from those that didn't automatically assume that because I want to stamp drawings and be architect of record on projects that I have a problem with ego. I appreciate the comments from those above mentioning what's normal in other firms. Our firm is a large AE firm so we are different at times from other Architecture firms.
Rusty!
Jun 5, 18 11:08 am
You are a Project Manager/Associate. We are pretty knowledgeable on what that means. That's a great career accomplishment by your age. Congrats! But you don't have to oversell yourself on how you also do all design work, technical QC, are a major rainmaker for the firm, and an accountant. Unless you work on only relatively small projects only from one or 2 client sources, and is relatively insignificant compared to bigger projects in the office. And maybe that is exactly the case, because I can't picture any other scenario where your biggest complaint is that you don't get to play with ur stamp. Ur being silly at best, and potentially very under-qualified at worst.
Non Sequitur
Jun 5, 18 11:10 am
"However, I didn't get registered to have someone else be the Architect of Record for my work. I get more and more irritated by the fact that other architects get to stamp my work"
It's not your work until your name is on the door and liability policy. Until then, you're an employee.
Wilma Buttfit
Jun 5, 18 11:41 am
arrogant (adjective) making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud; a sense of superiority, self-importance, or entitlement; a type of extreme or foolish pride in which someone feels much superior to another; proud in an unpleasant way and behaving as if you are better or more important than other people
Wilma Buttfit
Jun 5, 18 11:46 am
confidence - the state of feeling certain about the truth of something; certainty about handling something, such as work, family, social events, or relationships; the feeling of being certain that something will happen or that something is true
kjdt
Jun 5, 18 11:55 am
Before you stamp anything, call the firm's insurer to make them aware, and verify that it's acceptable to them. This is particularly important if it's a project on which insurance certificates were issued as part of procuring that project, as the certificates may need to be changed to reflect that you're the architect of record.
Frankly I agree with others that you should be happy you're not incurring the perpetual liability - especially if you plan to go out on your own eventually. Who wants the expense and responsibility of having to keep an insurance policy running on another firm's project?
mattakinbimwalker
Jun 5, 18 12:45 pm
Kjdt and Bloopox
Thank you for meaningful comments and feedback. I appreciate your opinions.
It’s nice when comments can be made, even in disagreement, without assuming I’m arrogant, went to an Ivy League school or that I can’t use a dictionary. Quite certain things work better when people stay positive.
Wilma Buttfit
Jun 5, 18 1:33 pm
I'm positive you can't discern the difference between arrogance and confidence. Good luck!
Wilma Buttfit
Jun 5, 18 1:34 pm
You can always stamp birthday cards that you give to people.
b3tadine[sutures]
Aug 25, 22 6:30 pm
Welcome to our planet, [alien life form]!! Please pay no attention to our date/time coding, as it may be new to your [insert species here].
mattakinbimwalker
Jun 5, 18 1:53 pm
Forgive my ego (insert sarcasm here) but I didn't sign up to be a "paper only architect." Thanks for all the advice.
Non Sequitur
Jun 5, 18 2:30 pm
then start your own show. What's so difficult to understand?
the bigger issue is how principal architects take all of the credit for work they had little involvement in short of stamping a set of drawings and sitting in their ivory tower.
JLC-1
Jun 5, 18 3:34 pm
Forgive my ego (insert sarcasm here)
You are forgiven, now get out of wherever it is you are and carry those clients to your new and personal office and stamp away to the sunset
bowling_ball
Jun 5, 18 5:54 pm
That's the only point that matters. If you're bringing in enough clients to keep yourself busy and paid, then WTF are you doing complaining about having to work for other people?
Wilma Buttfit
Jun 5, 18 4:12 pm
Let's recap so there is no confusion. Is there a single commenter who thinks stamping without being a partner is a good idea?
Rusty!
Jun 5, 18 6:32 pm
I've stamped drawings as an intern before even finishing school. It wasn't my stamp though, and partner in charge was a lazy slob. Not an eager beaver like the original poster.
shellarchitect
Jun 5, 18 4:22 pm
just had a conversation about being on the "principle track." Perhaps you should have a similar one?
shellarchitect
Jun 5, 18 5:07 pm
Sorry David
OneLostArchitect
Jun 5, 18 8:40 pm
I stamp drawings all the time in the office and I’m not the owner. The company has proper insurances in case anything would to happen. I prefer not to stamp personally
SpontaneousCombustion
Jun 5, 18 9:32 pm
Great - as long as you stay with that firm until the statute of repose expires on each project.
OneLostArchitect
Jun 6, 18 10:10 pm
Its covered under company insurance policy...
Wilma Buttfit
Jun 7, 18 11:05 am
Is it only covered as long as you stay at the company?
Flatfish
Jun 7, 18 12:28 pm
Usually it follows the firm, so if the architect leaves the firm then he's no longer covered unless he buys his own insurance. Also if the firm goes out of business then there can be other problems besides insurance - like being subpoenaed every time one of the projects is in any way involved in a court case. That's not always because of anything directly related to the work - it can be because that firm submitted documents to the city once for that property and now it's in a land dispute or something like that. If you're the AOR you're forever more a go-to, and that can be time-consuming and a headache.
mightyaa
Jun 7, 18 5:40 pm
My understanding is when a claim is filed, it can only be filed against the policy in place at the time of the drawing issue. There, I think, may be some precedence to go against the insurance in place at the time of notification of an issue under certain circumstances.
mightyaa
Jun 6, 18 2:11 pm
I stamp stuff here at my newish job usually as a co-signer (engineer boss). It's mostly legal reports and repair drawings. But that does reflect my personal opinions as an architect when it comes to standard of care for architects... it is why the engineer stamp isn't as valid and why they need me to stamp it. I'm covered under their insurance, will most assuredly be called into a legal proceeding :P. I am also paid quite well in return (about 30% more than I was making as a senior PM)
At my own firm, I stamped everything going out the door. It isn't entirely about liability or ego. It was my firm, and anything going out the door that reflects the firm I needed to make sure met the standards and the image of what I think the firm should represent. The drawing set is one of those 'biggy' things that embodies what the firm is about and is widely distributed. Sure.. A PM who wanted to stamp it, I'd allow.... but only after I also thoroughly reviewed it and said it was ready for him/her to stamp.
I am a registered architect and I have been working in an architectural firm since I was 16. I am now 39 and have been out of architecture school since 2003. Depending on how you count my experience, I have between 15 to 21 years experience. I am an associate in my firm and I am a major source of bringing work into the firm. I am also a project manager for my company, which is an AE firm, so I manage all disciplines.
I find it difficult watching other "gray haired" architects stamp and sign my work. I have expressed a strong desire to stamp drawings. Yes I know it brings on much liability. However, I didn't get registered to have someone else be the Architect of Record for my work. I get more and more irritated by the fact that other architects get to stamp my work, when they know little to nothing about my projects.
What I hear is your young and or newly registered. However, I am not your typical newly registered architect. I've been running projects for a long time and I bring in most of the projects I want to stamp from clients I have worked hard to make happy. I perform my own Technical Quality Control Checks and Constructability Reviews with other disciplines.
What are your thoughts? I feel its a power thing for some of the older architects and I don't see the same attitude towards the engineering disciplines in my firm.
Why are you working for someone else then? Start your own gig.
Exactly!
why would you want th liabilities?
I'm thoroughly enjoying not stamping things. Not that I'd have a problem with doing so... I just don't have to.
Same here. I do a great deal of the same as the OP lists but with the length of the stature of limitation in my area, I don't want to eat up liability 15 years down the road because some junior wanker slid something past our Q&A check.
I am bringing in the work that is helping feed the office. I am managing client relations and getting the deliverables out. I am making the design decisions on my projects and managing the subs, if we use subs. I manage the financials. Why not stamp the drawings? Yes there's liability but that's part of the profession that is architecture.
I'd like to think that days and hours of no sleep, debt, blood, sweat and frustration through architecture school, exams and all my experiences thus far weren't just to put together a nice set of documents for someone else to stamp. If that was the case, what's the point in all the struggle? Was the point just taking home a paycheck and being able to use the title "Architect"?
See above, start your own practice.
As others have said, start your own practice. Or make peace with your current situation (which sounds like my own, which is awesome). I literally have no idea why you're complaining. Nobody cares about who's name is on the stamp.
Do you really think that stamping principals at large firms go over every detail in every drawing?
It's unusual for a non-owner in a firm to stamp and sign drawings - typically that only happens if they're somehow the only person in the firm licensed in the project's state, or if it's a firm where the owners are not licensed architects (in a state that allows that). Prior to going out on my own I only stamped drawings once - in a situation where I was the only person in the firm with a license in the project's state, and the owner's application for reciprocity in that state had been held up unexpectedly. It isn't something I'd recommend, as the liability follows the stamp, even after you don't work for that firm anymore and aren't covered by their insurance.
For a 39 year old who has completely mastered the entire profession of Architecture, I am surprised how you lack understanding on why a large AE firm would not want their associates stamping shit.
You let people who have nowhere else to climb stamp drawings. They peaked and have nowhere else to go. You hold on to position of principal for dear life.
If you are a 'major source of bringing work' then you should be more upset that you are still only an associate.
Or perhaps your professional accomplishments are yet to catch up to your ego.
um... yeah, that last point seems very appropriate.
Your ego is in the way of your success and your head is too for the hat you are wearing.
Now we've heard it all. OP is happy bringing in work like a partner but only being an associate. He's pissed at not having the liability of a partner even though only being an associate. Maybe he should also ask for a cut in pay so he could suffer even more like a true Architect. Hey, if he's got an Ivy degree he might be able to talk them into making him into an unpaid intern (while still bringing in work and exposing himself to lawsuits).
Wow. Some of these comments got very negative / personal very fast. Guess I struck a nerve with someone unintentionally. Please review my posts and note that I never stated that I mastered the entire Architectural Profession. That's simply adding things I never stated. There's a difference between confidence and arrogance. I sincerely came here to get feedback from other professionals in other firms and not comments that are personal or attacking.
I appreciate the feedback from those that didn't automatically assume that because I want to stamp drawings and be architect of record on projects that I have a problem with ego. I appreciate the comments from those above mentioning what's normal in other firms. Our firm is a large AE firm so we are different at times from other Architecture firms.
You are a Project Manager/Associate. We are pretty knowledgeable on what that means. That's a great career accomplishment by your age. Congrats! But you don't have to oversell yourself on how you also do all design work, technical QC, are a major rainmaker for the firm, and an accountant. Unless you work on only relatively small projects only from one or 2 client sources, and is relatively insignificant compared to bigger projects in the office. And maybe that is exactly the case, because I can't picture any other scenario where your biggest complaint is that you don't get to play with ur stamp. Ur being silly at best, and potentially very under-qualified at worst.
"However, I didn't get registered to have someone else be the Architect of Record for my work. I get more and more irritated by the fact that other architects get to stamp my work"
It's not your work until your name is on the door and liability policy. Until then, you're an employee.
arrogant (adjective) making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud; a sense of superiority, self-importance, or entitlement; a type of extreme or foolish pride in which someone feels much superior to another; proud in an unpleasant way and behaving as if you are better or more important than other people
confidence - the state of feeling certain about the truth of something; certainty about handling something, such as work, family, social events, or relationships; the feeling of being certain that something will happen or that something is true
Before you stamp anything, call the firm's insurer to make them aware, and verify that it's acceptable to them. This is particularly important if it's a project on which insurance certificates were issued as part of procuring that project, as the certificates may need to be changed to reflect that you're the architect of record.
Frankly I agree with others that you should be happy you're not incurring the perpetual liability - especially if you plan to go out on your own eventually. Who wants the expense and responsibility of having to keep an insurance policy running on another firm's project?
Kjdt and Bloopox
Thank you for meaningful comments and feedback. I appreciate your opinions.
It’s nice when comments can be made, even in disagreement, without assuming I’m arrogant, went to an Ivy League school or that I can’t use a dictionary. Quite certain things work better when people stay positive.
I'm positive you can't discern the difference between arrogance and confidence. Good luck!
You can always stamp birthday cards that you give to people.
Welcome to our planet, [alien life form]!! Please pay no attention to our date/time coding, as it may be new to your [insert species here].
Forgive my ego (insert sarcasm here) but I didn't sign up to be a "paper only architect." Thanks for all the advice.
then start your own show. What's so difficult to understand?
This guy needs some drawings stamped:
https://archinect.com/forum/th...
the bigger issue is how principal architects take all of the credit for work they had little involvement in short of stamping a set of drawings and sitting in their ivory tower.
Forgive my ego (insert sarcasm here)
You are forgiven, now get out of wherever it is you are and carry those clients to your new and personal office and stamp away to the sunset
That's the only point that matters. If you're bringing in enough clients to keep yourself busy and paid, then WTF are you doing complaining about having to work for other people?
Let's recap so there is no confusion. Is there a single commenter who thinks stamping without being a partner is a good idea?
I've stamped drawings as an intern before even finishing school. It wasn't my stamp though, and partner in charge was a lazy slob. Not an eager beaver like the original poster.
just had a conversation about being on the "principle track." Perhaps you should have a similar one?
Sorry David
I stamp drawings all the time in the office and I’m not the owner. The company has proper insurances in case anything would to happen. I prefer not to stamp personally
Great - as long as you stay with that firm until the statute of repose expires on each project.
Its covered under company insurance policy...
Is it only covered as long as you stay at the company?
Usually it follows the firm, so if the architect leaves the firm then he's no longer covered unless he buys his own insurance. Also if the firm goes out of business then there can be other problems besides insurance - like being subpoenaed every time one of the projects is in any way involved in a court case. That's not always because of anything directly related to the work - it can be because that firm submitted documents to the city once for that property and now it's in a land dispute or something like that. If you're the AOR you're forever more a go-to, and that can be time-consuming and a headache.
My understanding is when a claim is filed, it can only be filed against the policy in place at the time of the drawing issue. There, I think, may be some precedence to go against the insurance in place at the time of notification of an issue under certain circumstances.
I stamp stuff here at my newish job usually as a co-signer (engineer boss). It's mostly legal reports and repair drawings. But that does reflect my personal opinions as an architect when it comes to standard of care for architects... it is why the engineer stamp isn't as valid and why they need me to stamp it. I'm covered under their insurance, will most assuredly be called into a legal proceeding :P. I am also paid quite well in return (about 30% more than I was making as a senior PM)
At my own firm, I stamped everything going out the door. It isn't entirely about liability or ego. It was my firm, and anything going out the door that reflects the firm I needed to make sure met the standards and the image of what I think the firm should represent. The drawing set is one of those 'biggy' things that embodies what the firm is about and is widely distributed. Sure.. A PM who wanted to stamp it, I'd allow.... but only after I also thoroughly reviewed it and said it was ready for him/her to stamp.