I always love to draw since I was elementary. Such as to draw a house, buildings etc. Until when I become high school student drawing is my sweetest escape. My friends told me that my ideas in drawing a house structure is very creative. I was planning to take architecture but I sucked at Math so hard. Fine arts is awesome but Architecture is my dream. I want to become Architect but my mind is always think I'm not capable to take that course because I'm not that smart and good especially at math.
Non Sequitur
May 20, 18 6:21 pm
Math is not essential but it sure as shit is important. I sucked at math in high school too so I retook my classes through summer school just to make the minimum grade cut off. I excelled in university math/physics immediately within my first year in arch school.
Take the time to do the classes and learn. Having even a pedestrian level understanding of math will go a long way.
shellarchitect
May 20, 18 7:33 pm
If you can handle algebra 1, you'll be fine
shellarchitect
May 21, 18 11:55 am
holy hell, if you can read and understand the above you'll be just fine. I can't make myself do it
bowling_ball
May 22, 18 5:46 pm
RickB, are you really so oblivious that you think you're helping by writing a wall of text that nobody will read? I don't want to pick on you, but there's a reason you don't see anybody else - in the history of archinect - doing this. It's not helpful. It's rude. It's condescending. And ultimately it turns people off.
zonker
May 20, 18 10:57 pm
One of the reasons I went into architecture was to do more applied math like what I did in previous lives in the flight simulator and video game worlds. NOT - in Statics, you use basic algebra and trig. Only in Concrete structures do you get into any complex stuff, and that's just chain expressions - no calculus
but here's the biggest secret to success in architecture - Do you want to be above average(average Joes and Janes get laid off) so to be one one the smart ones, learn calculus, you will never use it, but trust me on this one. Most of my co-workers are from China and they all take calc in high school and they are smart, they are getting the jobs - so don't be a dummy, take calculus and excel at it
randomised
May 21, 18 2:28 am
If you want to excel learn how to manage a team and how to talk to clients, suppliers and builders...all this calc stuff is for the lower level labourers (in architecture)
shellarchitect
May 21, 18 11:56 am
what will you do with calculus knowledge
?
shellarchitect
May 21, 18 11:58 am
I just don't see the point in learning something that will never be used outside of school
shellarchitect
May 21, 18 2:01 pm
It would be difficult to find a more niche application
shellarchitect
May 21, 18 2:18 pm
can you expound on that thought? I would think that so long as people need buildings to live and work that there will be architects
shellarchitect
May 22, 18 4:25 pm
I think you are extrapolating based on the comments of disappointed architnect architects. the biggest failure of the profession is that it doesn't provide an income congruent with the costs to attain licensure. Many architects have a very good income and job satisfaction. It is worth remembering that money isn't everything and that many high income professionals (lawyers, drs, finance) also hate their jobs.
mikelo
May 24, 18 4:14 pm
.
thatsthat
May 21, 18 9:59 am
Honestly, I was almost a math minor in college. I took geometry, trig, calc 1, 2, and 3. (Geom and trig were required; all of the calcs were just for fun.) Slept through all but Calc 2 and 3 - those ate my lunch. I was about to start engineering-level maths but chose to focus more on studio instead. Now, practicing I think I use maybe geometry the most with trig a close second. You'll be fine if you understand the basics of geometry and trig. Now what your program requires you to take may be a different story.
thatsthat
May 21, 18 2:09 pm
I guess I assumed if you were an adult human, you'd probably be able to do basic elementary-level math, therefore I did not include it in my rankings of most used math skills.
Le Courvoisier
May 21, 18 1:34 pm
Balkykins, you can't even lie correctly about buildings you say you worked on. Who would ever issue you a license?
Fivescore
May 21, 18 3:09 pm
Rick have you taken and passed a calculus course? Yes or no. I don't care about your self-study of pdfs - I'm talking about a for-credit course with a final exam.
Archlandia
May 21, 18 3:25 pm
Off topic, but Le Courvoisier is the best name on this forum hands down
null pointer
May 22, 18 7:51 pm
Yeah brah, and I could jump from the Empire Building and survive the fall.
Just because you say something, it doesn't make it real. You are ill. Seek help.
Broadstreetexpresstrain
May 22, 18 9:14 am
I am the product of an urban-inner city -mid level public school education (Philadelphia). I excelled in highschool but my math courses only included up to algebra. However I excelled at and had a burning passion for architecture and design despite only ever taking algebra in highschool. While in college I quickly learned how weak and behind in math I was compared to my peer architecture students, while initiallly struggling in my Structures and MEP Systems courses. My passion for architectural design would not allow me to be defeated by my relatively weak math background. So, I had to buckle down and work that much harder than my peers to improve my math while taking the Structures and MEP Systems courses, in addition to the challenges of studio. I was a good athelete in highschool (captain of football team and a wrestler) so I was used to always working hard to take on challenges....I applied the same athletic intensity of sports to my academics. I worked so hard at improving my math that I eventually went on to earn A’s and B’s in Structures and MEP systems classes. I eventually graduated, earned a Masters Degree and have been a licensed practicing architect for 20 years, specializing in large -urban buildings. Throughout my career I have only ever used geometry, algebra and rarely trigonometry. So, I believe that you can succeed with the knowledge of algebra, geometry and trigonometry......Do not be intimidated by math. Do not let your “beleived” weak background in math deter you from becoming and Architect. You can improve your math skills while in college with additional coursework and practice........Frankly, I believe that in order to succeed in architecture school and the profession, your ability to communicate, learn, listen, adapt and to effortlessly devise alternate design schemes are exceedingly more important than your math skills.........so don’t let your perceived problem stop you, instead use it as an opportunity to strengthen you.
shellarchitect
May 22, 18 11:06 am
well said
randomised
May 22, 18 5:09 pm
waiting for the tl;dr
zonker
May 22, 18 5:36 pm
try Calculus for Dummies - I use that a lot to review calc
you will probably never use Calc in architecture - but it will make you smarter - it changes your mind -
Wilma Buttfit
May 22, 18 7:58 pm
Study psychology, not calculus.
Seriously though, math is far, far harder in math class than it ever will be as an architect. It is worth studying though. Try Khan Academy. Learning at your own pace might show you that you CAN do math without the pressure of a classroom, teacher, exams, etc.
null pointer
May 22, 18 8:16 pm
All of the impressive architects that I have met can do math quickly in their head and do it accurately.
All of the shitty architects I've met can't.
I'm not going to candy-coat it like a lot of the people here have. If you want to be a good architect, you need to get good at math.
Math isn't something "you're not good at". It's a skill. You learn it. You master it. You trick your brain into thinking you enjoy it. There comes a point after Calc II where your brain literally knows the answer to things before you can even articulate it - you can discern patterns in a lot of things just because you know how they can be mathematically described. You get these math-based intuitions which are extremely valuable when working with complex systems.
Complex systems are not bathrooms remodels. Complex systems are 1,000+ unit campus projects with set capacity/performance requirements and set budgets with onerous code and zoning requirements.
But don't worry, there are a lot of shitty architects. You can always just be another one of them.
zonker
May 22, 18 8:27 pm
null pointer - nails it
or as my high school algebra teacher would always say
"get it the first time or get out"
zonker
May 22, 18 8:33 pm
Also:
My H1-B coworkers from China can all do math in their head quickly and they are the ones getting the jobs
Schoon
May 22, 18 10:05 pm
I agree wholeheartedly with Broadstreetexpresstrain. I think most people who say they're bad at math have a self-defeating attitude. You might not be a natural, but if you practice often enough you will get better and it will become second nature.
Like Xenakis said, not only is math an incredibly useful skill, knowing higher level math like calculus really does change the way you think. I think everyone should give it a shot, who knows, you might even end up loving it!
Non Sequitur
May 22, 18 10:14 pm
I've always felt very uncomfortable when someone proudly claims they don't know math. It's not a quality to be unable to do basic calculations... why is it a source of pride?
zonker
May 22, 18 11:42 pm
Non Sequitur
Project architects are always busting my balls when I use these math expressions for doing area calcs - "Hey, It's not rocket science" or " why didn't you become a structural engineer instead"
randomised
May 23, 18 2:58 am
Yes, but you're not an architect so leave that poor trout alone or I'll report you to PETA(People for the Ethical Treatment of Architects)
randomised
May 23, 18 4:46 am
Just because the title of architect is not protected in Sweden, that doesn't mean you're an architect (in Sweden). Ever did a project there, built there, heck did you even once visit Sweden? Or did you just google countries where the title of architect is not protected? Stop kidding yourself, the time you spend on archinect could be easily spent finishing your degree to become an architect in the real world.
randomised
May 23, 18 5:44 am
You don't need to do all-nighters, just dedication and inspiration:
randomised
May 23, 18 6:59 am
Wow, that's a lot, hope it was worth it.
Non Sequitur
May 23, 18 7:51 am
so many responses to a post originally addressed to me... jeebous!.
shellarchitect
May 23, 18 10:12 am
$40k in 12? i'm at $95 in 72. You win this one
Non Sequitur
May 23, 18 12:12 pm
Imagine how much more ahead everyone would be had there been equal pressure for free university as there was for silly gun ownership rights.
randomised
May 23, 18 3:58 pm
So you're paying off student loans in order to take on more student loans...makes total sense!
shellarchitect
May 23, 18 10:07 am
Rick, I'm certain that no university will make an admission decision based on a potential students age. You are definitely not too old for architecture or any other degree. I had a couple 40ish and one 50ish people in my class, they were by far the best students. All-nighters are only done by people who want to do them.
Professors are generally good people who prefer their students avoid unhealthy decisions.
I wouldn't blame you if you did not pursue architecture, but I do think that you should pursue some type of useful skill.
For example, plumbers and electricians make a great living for a fraction of the educational costs.
shellarchitect
May 23, 18 12:25 pm
I don't recall and specific software requirements form UDM or LTU. I think the first couple studios mandated hand drafting and modeling. After that it was up to the student to chose the best way to communicate their design. I believe that both schools offered classes in revit and 3dmax. Regardless, some how thousands of students seem to overcome this obstacle and graduate every year. One of them could be you.
null pointer
May 24, 18 11:53 am
Please bitch Balkins, I switched between four separate 3d programs in grad school and touched Autocad once for a single drawing (some exploded axon that I could have done by hand). Most schools actually start by teaching you basic drawing and then allow you to pick pretty much any software you want as long as you can deliver the visual goods. I had friends that used Rhino for 3 months and never did a digital 3d model after that. They graduated with better grades than I did. You have zero clue what goes into being a graduate student. Zero. Stop writing as if you're some sort of authoritative source. You are not.
Also, I taught myself Revit on the fly after I went solo and I'm probably just as old as you are. It was not hard. In fact, if you know what you're supposed to produce (fucking visuals) it is worth every fucking penny of the subscription cost.
Non Sequitur
May 24, 18 12:22 pm
^bingo. By end of my 4th term in undergrad I was using 4 different modeling programs (Rhino2, ArchiCAD, FormZ, Sketchup + 3D AutoCAD)... having done all previous 6 studios producing all projects by hand.
thatsthat
May 24, 18 2:10 pm
NS, if you weren't Canadian, I would almost think we went to the same school from some of your descriptions. My school had the 1st studio completely by hand, and some others as well if you chose a certain professor. After that we did Sketchup, some AutoCAD, FormZ, 3DSMax, ArchiCAD, Revit, and then you got to choose between Rhino and Maya. The only thing required when entering the program was AutoCAD, and if you didn't have that, they made you go to a weekend short course. But most of the instructions on how to use these programs were in separate courses not studio. For studio, you chose what you wanted.
Non Sequitur
May 24, 18 2:23 pm
Thats, autocad was straight-up banned for us until my very last undergrad studio.... and sketchup was in it's infancy so hardly anyone even knew about it. FormZ was all the rage for years then slowly all the others came into our labs. As a side note, I banned CAD for one assignment when I taught first year studio and students were lost. No undo? no downloads? no copy paste?
thatsthat
May 24, 18 2:35 pm
I hated FormZ! Looking back, I probably just didn't know how to use it correctly. My 3rd year studio prof banned illustator because people were using it to draft instead of learning CAD... only 1 or 2 people chose to do things by hand to get around using CAD. I wish I had gone to school when more was by hand. :-\
Fivescore
May 24, 18 2:43 pm
There were no particular requirements for software use or software knowledge when I was in architecture school, and there are none now where I'm teaching. Some students take software courses, others don't. Some faculty still require that some studio assignments be done by hand, especially in early years of the undergrad program, but most have no restrictions on the means by which the work is completed. I can't imagine a professor dictating to grad students what methods to use to product their work (unless of course it's a support course specifically about drawing or software.)
If I were a prospective architecture student and I were especially concerned about this, I'd visit some crits at the programs in which I was interested, to see the work being produced, and I'd talk with current students about their experiences. There are many factors in deciding whether or not to pursue an architecture degree, but fear of software requirements shouldn't be one of them. Many students in M.Arch programs come from undergrad backgrounds completely unrelated to architecture, and are in their late 20s, 30s, 40s, and beyond, with no CAD or BIM or 3D modeling or rendering experience whatsoever. There's no expectation that anybody already know Revit or any other software coming in. Some students do choose to learn various applications as they go, and some do not, but I've not seen any pressure from profs either way.
Non Sequitur
May 24, 18 3:38 pm
It's not ridiculous Ricky, it's the norm. Had you ever attended an arch school, you would know this. Now give me a coffee stained canary yellow scrap of trace with some sharpie lines over a photo realistic model any day. It's likely that sketch took just as much effort as the rendering.
Fivescore
May 24, 18 3:41 pm
Rick it sounds like the school where you observed all of this is not the best program for you. That does not mean there isn't a better fit somewhere. Think about it: at least a third of M.Arch students are coming from unrelated undergrad majors where they've had no drawing/modeling/rendering background at all. You have some sort of CAD certificate already, so software-wise you're ahead of that third. You've also had years of free time during which you could have been learning software if you were really that concerned about it. Software just isn't that big a deal, most professors don't care what you use, and are more likely to be impressed by gum wrappers glued to museum board with charcoal smears than with the image you posted above. Software changes all the time, and whatever you use in school is unlikely to be what is used in the first firm you go to, which may use something different than the 2nd firm, and so on, and you're always going to need to be able to pick up new software and learn it. You have got to stop using all these excuses to make everything seem so impossible. You spend tons of time defending your intelligence and skills - so why is everybody else able to do these things and you can't? I don't care at all whether you study architecture or not - frankly it doesn't seem like you've got any aptitude for it whatsoever - but whatever you do, stop scaring yourself and just do it. Otherwise you're going to end up like that 30 year old "failure to launch" guy whose parents went to state supreme court to kick him out of the house.
Fivescore
May 24, 18 7:20 pm
A 4+2 program isn't going to make sense for you, because you'd end up doing at least 2 more years (and more likely 3 years) of undergrad to finish a qualifying "4" component pre-professional architecture major anywhere. Nobody's going to admit you to the "2" component without a full 2 or 3 years of architecture studios. The shortest route for you would be to do whatever you need to do to get the money for one more semester or quarter or whatever, on-campus, full time, to finish your non-architecture BS. That would also be better for you because you seem to get overwhelmed with long-range plans, and are better at finishing one step at a time. Financial aid opportunities are usually better for grad students anyway (more available grants, the way your finances are calculated is more of an advantage to an older independent students, etc.) , so doing a 3-year M.Arch would almost certainly cost less for you than back-tracking to do extra undergrad work to do a 4+2. In the long run, even if you don't pursue architecture, a completed bachelor degree will make you much more employable in practically anything.
shellarchitect
May 23, 18 12:29 pm
Honestly it really bothers me when I hear or see anyone with a litany of reasons not to do something. Just identify a goal and do what you need to do to achieve it.
Bad at math? so what, get better, end of story.
Need money? we all do, find a way to make what you need.
The cost of doing nothing is far higher than you might expect.
Wilma Buttfit
May 23, 18 4:58 pm
I spent a few years teaching math. I taught underlying skills in trig and calculus to 2nd and 3rd graders. Through this experience I decided more than a few people probably knew calculus before someone told them they didn't know it. It is change. You can visualize change. Input a value and export a value. Change the input, change the output. Yes, that is good thinking to have, pretty basic. Take calculus but not in the university, do high school or cc. Now, statistics, don't ask me to do any of that.
Wilma Buttfit
May 23, 18 5:04 pm
Algebra 2 was harder for me than trig and calc.
Le Courvoisier
May 24, 18 5:41 pm
Algebra? Yeah, I know algebra. From my experience surveying buildings using old methods no one uses anymore, I used a lot of abstract algebra to make buildings look like they are exempt from needing a licensed architect, because as you know I'm a certified grade-A hunk of building designer - even my middle names can be abbreviated as water closet! You know what else I know? I know how to program too - and on a Commodore 64! Not many people know that so I have a super rare skill, but no one will hire me. Also, I should be teaching at a college but they won't give me my degree because a professor is out to get me after I threw a hissy fit in a class. It is my personal experience that I'm an insufferable asshole and have no damn clue what I'm talking about.
I always love to draw since I was elementary. Such as to draw a house, buildings etc. Until when I become high school student drawing is my sweetest escape. My friends told me that my ideas in drawing a house structure is very creative. I was planning to take architecture but I sucked at Math so hard. Fine arts is awesome but Architecture is my dream. I want to become Architect but my mind is always think I'm not capable to take that course because I'm not that smart and good especially at math.
Math is not essential but it sure as shit is important. I sucked at math in high school too so I retook my classes through summer school just to make the minimum grade cut off. I excelled in university math/physics immediately within my first year in arch school.
Take the time to do the classes and learn. Having even a pedestrian level understanding of math will go a long way.
If you can handle algebra 1, you'll be fine
holy hell, if you can read and understand the above you'll be just fine. I can't make myself do it
RickB, are you really so oblivious that you think you're helping by writing a wall of text that nobody will read? I don't want to pick on you, but there's a reason you don't see anybody else - in the history of archinect - doing this. It's not helpful. It's rude. It's condescending. And ultimately it turns people off.
One of the reasons I went into architecture was to do more applied math like what I did in previous lives in the flight simulator and video game worlds. NOT - in Statics, you use basic algebra and trig. Only in Concrete structures do you get into any complex stuff, and that's just chain expressions - no calculus
but here's the biggest secret to success in architecture - Do you want to be above average(average Joes and Janes get laid off) so to be one one the smart ones, learn calculus, you will never use it, but trust me on this one. Most of my co-workers are from China and they all take calc in high school and they are smart, they are getting the jobs - so don't be a dummy, take calculus and excel at it
If you want to excel learn how to manage a team and how to talk to clients, suppliers and builders...all this calc stuff is for the lower level labourers (in architecture)
what will you do with calculus knowledge ?
I just don't see the point in learning something that will never be used outside of school
It would be difficult to find a more niche application
can you expound on that thought? I would think that so long as people need buildings to live and work that there will be architects
I think you are extrapolating based on the comments of disappointed architnect architects. the biggest failure of the profession is that it doesn't provide an income congruent with the costs to attain licensure. Many architects have a very good income and job satisfaction. It is worth remembering that money isn't everything and that many high income professionals (lawyers, drs, finance) also hate their jobs.
.
Honestly, I was almost a math minor in college. I took geometry, trig, calc 1, 2, and 3. (Geom and trig were required; all of the calcs were just for fun.) Slept through all but Calc 2 and 3 - those ate my lunch. I was about to start engineering-level maths but chose to focus more on studio instead. Now, practicing I think I use maybe geometry the most with trig a close second. You'll be fine if you understand the basics of geometry and trig. Now what your program requires you to take may be a different story.
I guess I assumed if you were an adult human, you'd probably be able to do basic elementary-level math, therefore I did not include it in my rankings of most used math skills.
Balkykins, you can't even lie correctly about buildings you say you worked on. Who would ever issue you a license?
Rick have you taken and passed a calculus course? Yes or no. I don't care about your self-study of pdfs - I'm talking about a for-credit course with a final exam.
Off topic, but Le Courvoisier is the best name on this forum hands down
Yeah brah, and I could jump from the Empire Building and survive the fall.
Just because you say something, it doesn't make it real. You are ill. Seek help.
I am the product of an urban-inner city -mid level public school education (Philadelphia). I excelled in highschool but my math courses only included up to algebra. However I excelled at and had a burning passion for architecture and design despite only ever taking algebra in highschool. While in college I quickly learned how weak and behind in math I was compared to my peer architecture students, while initiallly struggling in my Structures and MEP Systems courses. My passion for architectural design would not allow me to be defeated by my relatively weak math background. So, I had to buckle down and work that much harder than my peers to improve my math while taking the Structures and MEP Systems courses, in addition to the challenges of studio. I was a good athelete in highschool (captain of football team and a wrestler) so I was used to always working hard to take on challenges....I applied the same athletic intensity of sports to my academics. I worked so hard at improving my math that I eventually went on to earn A’s and B’s in Structures and MEP systems classes. I eventually graduated, earned a Masters Degree and have been a licensed practicing architect for 20 years, specializing in large -urban buildings. Throughout my career I have only ever used geometry, algebra and rarely trigonometry. So, I believe that you can succeed with the knowledge of algebra, geometry and trigonometry......Do not be intimidated by math. Do not let your “beleived” weak background in math deter you from becoming and Architect. You can improve your math skills while in college with additional coursework and practice........Frankly, I believe that in order to succeed in architecture school and the profession, your ability to communicate, learn, listen, adapt and to effortlessly devise alternate design schemes are exceedingly more important than your math skills.........so don’t let your perceived problem stop you, instead use it as an opportunity to strengthen you.
well said
waiting for the tl;dr
try Calculus for Dummies - I use that a lot to review calc
you will probably never use Calc in architecture - but it will make you smarter - it changes your mind -
Study psychology, not calculus.
Seriously though, math is far, far harder in math class than it ever will be as an architect. It is worth studying though. Try Khan Academy. Learning at your own pace might show you that you CAN do math without the pressure of a classroom, teacher, exams, etc.
All of the impressive architects that I have met can do math quickly in their head and do it accurately.
All of the shitty architects I've met can't.
I'm not going to candy-coat it like a lot of the people here have. If you want to be a good architect, you need to get good at math.
Math isn't something "you're not good at". It's a skill. You learn it. You master it. You trick your brain into thinking you enjoy it. There comes a point after Calc II where your brain literally knows the answer to things before you can even articulate it - you can discern patterns in a lot of things just because you know how they can be mathematically described. You get these math-based intuitions which are extremely valuable when working with complex systems.
Complex systems are not bathrooms remodels. Complex systems are 1,000+ unit campus projects with set capacity/performance requirements and set budgets with onerous code and zoning requirements.
But don't worry, there are a lot of shitty architects. You can always just be another one of them.
null pointer - nails it
or as my high school algebra teacher would always say
"get it the first time or get out"
Also:
My H1-B coworkers from China can all do math in their head quickly and they are the ones getting the jobs
I agree wholeheartedly with Broadstreetexpresstrain. I think most people who say they're bad at math have a self-defeating attitude. You might not be a natural, but if you practice often enough you will get better and it will become second nature.
Like Xenakis said, not only is math an incredibly useful skill, knowing higher level math like calculus really does change the way you think. I think everyone should give it a shot, who knows, you might even end up loving it!
I've always felt very uncomfortable when someone proudly claims they don't know math. It's not a quality to be unable to do basic calculations... why is it a source of pride?
Non Sequitur
Project architects are always busting my balls when I use these math expressions for doing area calcs - "Hey, It's not rocket science" or " why didn't you become a structural engineer instead"
Yes, but you're not an architect so leave that poor trout alone or I'll report you to PETA(People for the Ethical Treatment of Architects)
Just because the title of architect is not protected in Sweden, that doesn't mean you're an architect (in Sweden). Ever did a project there, built there, heck did you even once visit Sweden? Or did you just google countries where the title of architect is not protected? Stop kidding yourself, the time you spend on archinect could be easily spent finishing your degree to become an architect in the real world.
You don't need to do all-nighters, just dedication and inspiration:
Wow, that's a lot, hope it was worth it.
so many responses to a post originally addressed to me... jeebous!.
$40k in 12? i'm at $95 in 72. You win this one
Imagine how much more ahead everyone would be had there been equal pressure for free university as there was for silly gun ownership rights.
So you're paying off student loans in order to take on more student loans...makes total sense!
Rick, I'm certain that no university will make an admission decision based on a potential students age. You are definitely not too old for architecture or any other degree. I had a couple 40ish and one 50ish people in my class, they were by far the best students. All-nighters are only done by people who want to do them.
Professors are generally good people who prefer their students avoid unhealthy decisions.
I wouldn't blame you if you did not pursue architecture, but I do think that you should pursue some type of useful skill.
For example, plumbers and electricians make a great living for a fraction of the educational costs.
I don't recall and specific software requirements form UDM or LTU. I think the first couple studios mandated hand drafting and modeling. After that it was up to the student to chose the best way to communicate their design. I believe that both schools offered classes in revit and 3dmax. Regardless, some how thousands of students seem to overcome this obstacle and graduate every year. One of them could be you.
Please bitch Balkins, I switched between four separate 3d programs in grad school and touched Autocad once for a single drawing (some exploded axon that I could have done by hand). Most schools actually start by teaching you basic drawing and then allow you to pick pretty much any software you want as long as you can deliver the visual goods. I had friends that used Rhino for 3 months and never did a digital 3d model after that. They graduated with better grades than I did. You have zero clue what goes into being a graduate student. Zero. Stop writing as if you're some sort of authoritative source. You are not.
Also, I taught myself Revit on the fly after I went solo and I'm probably just as old as you are. It was not hard. In fact, if you know what you're supposed to produce (fucking visuals) it is worth every fucking penny of the subscription cost.
^bingo. By end of my 4th term in undergrad I was using 4 different modeling programs (Rhino2, ArchiCAD, FormZ, Sketchup + 3D AutoCAD)... having done all previous 6 studios producing all projects by hand.
NS, if you weren't Canadian, I would almost think we went to the same school from some of your descriptions. My school had the 1st studio completely by hand, and some others as well if you chose a certain professor. After that we did Sketchup, some AutoCAD, FormZ, 3DSMax, ArchiCAD, Revit, and then you got to choose between Rhino and Maya. The only thing required when entering the program was AutoCAD, and if you didn't have that, they made you go to a weekend short course. But most of the instructions on how to use these programs were in separate courses not studio. For studio, you chose what you wanted.
Thats, autocad was straight-up banned for us until my very last undergrad studio.... and sketchup was in it's infancy so hardly anyone even knew about it. FormZ was all the rage for years then slowly all the others came into our labs. As a side note, I banned CAD for one assignment when I taught first year studio and students were lost. No undo? no downloads? no copy paste?
I hated FormZ! Looking back, I probably just didn't know how to use it correctly. My 3rd year studio prof banned illustator because people were using it to draft instead of learning CAD... only 1 or 2 people chose to do things by hand to get around using CAD. I wish I had gone to school when more was by hand. :-\
There were no particular requirements for software use or software knowledge when I was in architecture school, and there are none now where I'm teaching. Some students take software courses, others don't. Some faculty still require that some studio assignments be done by hand, especially in early years of the undergrad program, but most have no restrictions on the means by which the work is completed. I can't imagine a professor dictating to grad students what methods to use to product their work (unless of course it's a support course specifically about drawing or software.)
If I were a prospective architecture student and I were especially concerned about this, I'd visit some crits at the programs in which I was interested, to see the work being produced, and I'd talk with current students about their experiences. There are many factors in deciding whether or not to pursue an architecture degree, but fear of software requirements shouldn't be one of them. Many students in M.Arch programs come from undergrad backgrounds completely unrelated to architecture, and are in their late 20s, 30s, 40s, and beyond, with no CAD or BIM or 3D modeling or rendering experience whatsoever. There's no expectation that anybody already know Revit or any other software coming in. Some students do choose to learn various applications as they go, and some do not, but I've not seen any pressure from profs either way.
It's not ridiculous Ricky, it's the norm. Had you ever attended an arch school, you would know this. Now give me a coffee stained canary yellow scrap of trace with some sharpie lines over a photo realistic model any day. It's likely that sketch took just as much effort as the rendering.
Rick it sounds like the school where you observed all of this is not the best program for you. That does not mean there isn't a better fit somewhere. Think about it: at least a third of M.Arch students are coming from unrelated undergrad majors where they've had no drawing/modeling/rendering background at all. You have some sort of CAD certificate already, so software-wise you're ahead of that third. You've also had years of free time during which you could have been learning software if you were really that concerned about it. Software just isn't that big a deal, most professors don't care what you use, and are more likely to be impressed by gum wrappers glued to museum board with charcoal smears than with the image you posted above. Software changes all the time, and whatever you use in school is unlikely to be what is used in the first firm you go to, which may use something different than the 2nd firm, and so on, and you're always going to need to be able to pick up new software and learn it. You have got to stop using all these excuses to make everything seem so impossible. You spend tons of time defending your intelligence and skills - so why is everybody else able to do these things and you can't? I don't care at all whether you study architecture or not - frankly it doesn't seem like you've got any aptitude for it whatsoever - but whatever you do, stop scaring yourself and just do it. Otherwise you're going to end up like that 30 year old "failure to launch" guy whose parents went to state supreme court to kick him out of the house.
A 4+2 program isn't going to make sense for you, because you'd end up doing at least 2 more years (and more likely 3 years) of undergrad to finish a qualifying "4" component pre-professional architecture major anywhere. Nobody's going to admit you to the "2" component without a full 2 or 3 years of architecture studios. The shortest route for you would be to do whatever you need to do to get the money for one more semester or quarter or whatever, on-campus, full time, to finish your non-architecture BS. That would also be better for you because you seem to get overwhelmed with long-range plans, and are better at finishing one step at a time. Financial aid opportunities are usually better for grad students anyway (more available grants, the way your finances are calculated is more of an advantage to an older independent students, etc.) , so doing a 3-year M.Arch would almost certainly cost less for you than back-tracking to do extra undergrad work to do a 4+2. In the long run, even if you don't pursue architecture, a completed bachelor degree will make you much more employable in practically anything.
Honestly it really bothers me when I hear or see anyone with a litany of reasons not to do something. Just identify a goal and do what you need to do to achieve it.
Bad at math? so what, get better, end of story.
Need money? we all do, find a way to make what you need.
The cost of doing nothing is far higher than you might expect.
I spent a few years teaching math. I taught underlying skills in trig and calculus to 2nd and 3rd graders. Through this experience I decided more than a few people probably knew calculus before someone told them they didn't know it. It is change. You can visualize change. Input a value and export a value. Change the input, change the output. Yes, that is good thinking to have, pretty basic. Take calculus but not in the university, do high school or cc. Now, statistics, don't ask me to do any of that.
Algebra 2 was harder for me than trig and calc.
Algebra? Yeah, I know algebra. From my experience surveying buildings using old methods no one uses anymore, I used a lot of abstract algebra to make buildings look like they are exempt from needing a licensed architect, because as you know I'm a certified grade-A hunk of building designer - even my middle names can be abbreviated as water closet! You know what else I know? I know how to program too - and on a Commodore 64! Not many people know that so I have a super rare skill, but no one will hire me. Also, I should be teaching at a college but they won't give me my degree because a professor is out to get me after I threw a hissy fit in a class. It is my personal experience that I'm an insufferable asshole and have no damn clue what I'm talking about.
Sounds like most architects.
"an insufferable asshole and have no damn clue what I'm talking about."