I have a background in an education field but I am making a career shift at 28 years old. I have developed keen interest in urban design through my masters of education research.
I have looked into a three year master's of landscape architecture degree at the University of Guelph (the benefit is that I do not need a design background to apply to the programs I've found).
I've also looked at two-year urban planning degrees. One program in particular at the University of Toronto offers a specialization in Urban design.
In order to do urban design work, would it be beneficial to have a MLA Degree, or a urban planning degree with a specialization in urban design? Lastly another option would be a 2 year master's of planning with a 1 year urban design degree.
Thank you in advance!
spedz14
May 14, 18 12:41 pm
bump
Non Sequitur
May 14, 18 12:48 pm
Not sure what's difficult here. If you want to go urban planning, go urban planning. MLA won't touch the same scale work. Not sure where, other than community/city planning departments, folks in urban design work. Is that what you're looking for?
Marc Miller
May 14, 18 2:52 pm
Non, what scale are you referring to?
Non Sequitur
May 14, 18 3:05 pm
Marc, I'm referring to, generally, the large scale urban zoning vs picking shrubbery for a landscape buffer strip. I know that's not very accurate, but I can see someone getting quickly disappointed if they go in blind.
Marc Miller
May 14, 18 3:30 pm
Yeah, that's a fairly dated description of practice.
Non Sequitur
May 14, 18 3:35 pm
I figured that much. 8-)
Marc Miller
May 14, 18 12:49 pm
Guelph places an emphasis on rural development. Is that that you are looking for? Are you exclusively in Canada?
spedz14
May 14, 18 1:48 pm
Im concerned I would not gain enough hard technical skills in an urban planning program to do urban design work. Thoughts?
Non Sequitur
May 14, 18 1:49 pm
are there "hard technical skills" required for urban design?
spedz14
May 14, 18 1:58 pm
Sketchup, CAD, GIS?
Non Sequitur
May 14, 18 2:00 pm
Sketchup is not a skill as any 5y old can master it in an afternoon. CAD and GIS are universal and also not that difficult. These are simple tools. Look for something that will actually teach you to think in terms of urban design (ie. scale) instead of focusing on software. You don't go to university for advance degrees in CAD. You pick it up on the side as needed.
spedz14
May 14, 18 2:14 pm
Thank you for the advice. My concern stems from many Urban Planning masters focusing on seminars rather than studios. Looking at Landscape architecture masters programs, there appears heavy emphasis on studio courses. The studio courses are what draws me to Landscape Architecture. While some planning programs have urban design as a course, it is a seminar course.
Some Planning programs however do have some studio courses. Does anyone have any experience/knowledge of the Urban Planning/development programs at University of Toronto, University of Waterloo, and Ryerson University?
Marc Miller
May 14, 18 3:34 pm
You'd be best served by looking at the curriculum for each program. For example -Ryerson doesn't even have a Landscape Architecture program (Landscape Design is a very different thing).
Bench
May 14, 18 6:31 pm
I think you've got a fundamental misunderstanding of what you're asking here.
I attended a planning program briefly. I left the school to pursue an accredited architecture degree. A number of friends went on to finish the program there; the ones that were in high demand upon graduation were the ones who could perform in traditional planning positions. They have all found success. The ones who have struggled are the ones who have attempted to get 'design' positions.
Bluntly - from what you're describing, I have yet to see someone practicing "urban design" who did not come from some sort of architecture background. Even when the programs offer 'specializations' in urban design, they rarely delve deeper than a basic series of studio classes. The schools are accredited as planning programs - so you are studying planning, as they are required to meet accreditation standards.
I interviewed recently at one of the more high-profile urban design studios; they explicitly search for architects to work in their office (I believe it was around 80% of staff). Guelph, as Marc points out, is entirely based around rural planning. Landscape architecture is its own thing. Many of the planning masters programs cater to the planning needs of their communities, but this is always based around actual city planning.
The reasoning being that these are all portfolio-based positions you're describing. Planning schools do not have a mandate to produce graduates in that vein. Landscape architecture certainly does, but the overlap isn't really there either.
You may need to be a bit more realistic about what you want to get out of going back to school, and what programs will actually allow you to do that.
Non Sequitur
May 14, 18 8:13 pm
Very good summary.
spedz14
May 14, 18 8:08 pm
Bench - Thank you for the insight. So essentially a program like University of Toronto's Urban Planning Program's specialization in Urban design is a gimmick?
"This concentration will prepare MScPl students to practice as professional planners with specialist knowledge in the theory and methods of Urban Design, though it would not train students as Urban Designers unless they have a substantial background in a design discipline such as Architecture."
What would be the benefit of such a specialization?
Bench
May 15, 18 10:50 am
I wouldnt personally use that description for it, no. Actually, from the quote you've posted out of their website, I think they are very upfront about what the program is offering. It is a planning program, both in name and teaching. Just because there is an option to take a couple electives about urban design doesn't mean they are intending to prepare you for the urban design field as a whole
I'd equate that description to about the same as taking a minor in undergrad. Sure, it might be an interesting thing in its own regard, but you wouldnt realistically expect to ditch your major completely after graduation and only try to do work in your minor subject. In this case, your major concentration is planning, with some directed coursework towards urban design.
I think a more prudent way to think of it is as a vehicle to give you a better understanding of how the urban pLanning world interacts with an urban design consultant; thats the impression I get when I see that description of the program.
This goes back to the point I was making earlier. Are you looking at planning programs because you want to be a planner? Are you looking at programs to become a designer? Are you just looking for a short program? I get the impression that you havent really reflected on this to yourself. My advice would be that if you want to attend a M.Plan program, but come out searching for urban design positions, you may not be setting yourself up for the best case scenario. The design positions require a much more rigorous schooling curriculum than a policy-based one. Even in my current office, all of our urban designers and masterplanners come from a background that included a rigorous studio culture; its just what is required of the position.
If I did a MUD program at this point in my career, I would actually get a lot out of it. Im approaching licensure, and I'm interested in planning policy as it relates to architectural design discourse, especially in massive, decades-long projects. But looking back, if I had pursued it out of the planning undergrad, there really would not have been much benefit to me, because I would not have a solid foundational understanding of the subjects they were trying to teach.
spedz14
May 15, 18 4:59 pm
My confusion comes from my hometown's (population 400,000) chief urban designer's background. He has an undergrad in environmental sciences and a master's in an urban planning program with a specialty in urban design.
He began his career in urban planning then transitioned into urban design without an architecture background.
Bench
May 18, 18 9:30 am
To be honest, that scenario sounds somewhat uncommon from my experience. Then again, in smaller communities of 400k maybe the circumstances are different and there might not be many architects who would want that role?
I also think its worth mentioning that positions taken with municipalities, at least how i've interacted with them in the past, have largely occupied an oversight and/or review role in these processes, not a design-based one. I'd be surprised (at least in Canada, various countries in the EU view this very differently) if the town chief urban designer was actually developing models and drawings for built projects. Perhaps some charrette and visioning with constituents, but not much more than that.
What you had described in the OP hadn't really aligned to that very much, at least in my understanding.
I have a background in an education field but I am making a career shift at 28 years old. I have developed keen interest in urban design through my masters of education research.
I have looked into a three year master's of landscape architecture degree at the University of Guelph (the benefit is that I do not need a design background to apply to the programs I've found).
I've also looked at two-year urban planning degrees. One program in particular at the University of Toronto offers a specialization in Urban design.
In order to do urban design work, would it be beneficial to have a MLA Degree, or a urban planning degree with a specialization in urban design? Lastly another option would be a 2 year master's of planning with a 1 year urban design degree.
Thank you in advance!
bump
Not sure what's difficult here. If you want to go urban planning, go urban planning. MLA won't touch the same scale work. Not sure where, other than community/city planning departments, folks in urban design work. Is that what you're looking for?
Non, what scale are you referring to?
Marc, I'm referring to, generally, the large scale urban zoning vs picking shrubbery for a landscape buffer strip. I know that's not very accurate, but I can see someone getting quickly disappointed if they go in blind.
Yeah, that's a fairly dated description of practice.
I figured that much. 8-)
Guelph places an emphasis on rural development. Is that that you are looking for? Are you exclusively in Canada?
Im concerned I would not gain enough hard technical skills in an urban planning program to do urban design work. Thoughts?
are there "hard technical skills" required for urban design?
Sketchup, CAD, GIS?
Sketchup is not a skill as any 5y old can master it in an afternoon. CAD and GIS are universal and also not that difficult. These are simple tools. Look for something that will actually teach you to think in terms of urban design (ie. scale) instead of focusing on software. You don't go to university for advance degrees in CAD. You pick it up on the side as needed.
Thank you for the advice. My concern stems from many Urban Planning masters focusing on seminars rather than studios. Looking at Landscape architecture masters programs, there appears heavy emphasis on studio courses. The studio courses are what draws me to Landscape Architecture. While some planning programs have urban design as a course, it is a seminar course.
Some Planning programs however do have some studio courses. Does anyone have any experience/knowledge of the Urban Planning/development programs at University of Toronto, University of Waterloo, and Ryerson University?
You'd be best served by looking at the curriculum for each program. For example -Ryerson doesn't even have a Landscape Architecture program (Landscape Design is a very different thing).
I think you've got a fundamental misunderstanding of what you're asking here.
I attended a planning program briefly. I left the school to pursue an accredited architecture degree. A number of friends went on to finish the program there; the ones that were in high demand upon graduation were the ones who could perform in traditional planning positions. They have all found success. The ones who have struggled are the ones who have attempted to get 'design' positions.
Bluntly - from what you're describing, I have yet to see someone practicing "urban design" who did not come from some sort of architecture background. Even when the programs offer 'specializations' in urban design, they rarely delve deeper than a basic series of studio classes. The schools are accredited as planning programs - so you are studying planning, as they are required to meet accreditation standards.
I interviewed recently at one of the more high-profile urban design studios; they explicitly search for architects to work in their office (I believe it was around 80% of staff). Guelph, as Marc points out, is entirely based around rural planning. Landscape architecture is its own thing. Many of the planning masters programs cater to the planning needs of their communities, but this is always based around actual city planning.
The reasoning being that these are all portfolio-based positions you're describing. Planning schools do not have a mandate to produce graduates in that vein. Landscape architecture certainly does, but the overlap isn't really there either.
You may need to be a bit more realistic about what you want to get out of going back to school, and what programs will actually allow you to do that.
Very good summary.
Bench - Thank you for the insight. So essentially a program like University of Toronto's Urban Planning Program's specialization in Urban design is a gimmick?
http://geography.utoronto.ca/g...
"This concentration will prepare MScPl students to practice as professional planners with specialist knowledge in the theory and methods of Urban Design, though it would not train students as Urban Designers unless they have a substantial background in a design discipline such as Architecture."
What would be the benefit of such a specialization?
I wouldnt personally use that description for it, no. Actually, from the quote you've posted out of their website, I think they are very upfront about what the program is offering. It is a planning program, both in name and teaching. Just because there is an option to take a couple electives about urban design doesn't mean they are intending to prepare you for the urban design field as a whole
I'd equate that description to about the same as taking a minor in undergrad. Sure, it might be an interesting thing in its own regard, but you wouldnt realistically expect to ditch your major completely after graduation and only try to do work in your minor subject. In this case, your major concentration is planning, with some directed coursework towards urban design.
I think a more prudent way to think of it is as a vehicle to give you a better understanding of how the urban pLanning world interacts with an urban design consultant; thats the impression I get when I see that description of the program.
This goes back to the point I was making earlier. Are you looking at planning programs because you want to be a planner? Are you looking at programs to become a designer? Are you just looking for a short program? I get the impression that you havent really reflected on this to yourself. My advice would be that if you want to attend a M.Plan program, but come out searching for urban design positions, you may not be setting yourself up for the best case scenario. The design positions require a much more rigorous schooling curriculum than a policy-based one. Even in my current office, all of our urban designers and masterplanners come from a background that included a rigorous studio culture; its just what is required of the position.
If I did a MUD program at this point in my career, I would actually get a lot out of it. Im approaching licensure, and I'm interested in planning policy as it relates to architectural design discourse, especially in massive, decades-long projects. But looking back, if I had pursued it out of the planning undergrad, there really would not have been much benefit to me, because I would not have a solid foundational understanding of the subjects they were trying to teach.
My confusion comes from my hometown's (population 400,000) chief urban designer's background. He has an undergrad in environmental sciences and a master's in an urban planning program with a specialty in urban design.
He began his career in urban planning then transitioned into urban design without an architecture background.
To be honest, that scenario sounds somewhat uncommon from my experience. Then again, in smaller communities of 400k maybe the circumstances are different and there might not be many architects who would want that role?
I also think its worth mentioning that positions taken with municipalities, at least how i've interacted with them in the past, have largely occupied an oversight and/or review role in these processes, not a design-based one. I'd be surprised (at least in Canada, various countries in the EU view this very differently) if the town chief urban designer was actually developing models and drawings for built projects. Perhaps some charrette and visioning with constituents, but not much more than that.
What you had described in the OP hadn't really aligned to that very much, at least in my understanding.