Well ive got homework and you read it on the title. So even when CAD tech is means to solve problems it as well generates new ones or difficulties. So for u users of this kind of technology what is problems u usually face using it?
BulgarBlogger
May 5, 18 4:24 pm
Here are a few thoughts:
Anytime a new software comes out, most people in the industry have to spend time learning it. You can either spend time on your own or you can spend time during work. The problem with the latter is that most companies simply don't want to invest in it. The problem with the former is that you are now cutting into your own/family time to learn a software without understanding your firm's workflow organizational structure. Additionally, its one thing to take a class in a software, and its a completely different thing to use it for a project. What complicates things further is that there is no such thing as not having a deadline. That said, you have to be able to quickly know how to produce instruments of service with the software while also meeting your deadline(s).
In general, I think having an intuitive interface is a big plus for any software. Open any software AutoCAD, Revit, ArchiCAD, 3Ds Max - these softwares have a million different options, and they should. But to get someone off the ground and productive, there are only a handful of commands/options/tools that an employee needs to know. Understanding where those commands/options are located is vital. Also, it gets really frustrated when you have parameters nested inside other objects. Building things the correct way, getting those things to appear properly, etc can get extremely frustrating.
Architects hate standardization of drawing formats and layer systems because they feel it takes away from their individuality and creative license. If someone starts drafting, but uses a slightly different pen weight that is not the standard one used can get really annoying. Drawings stop reading consistently. What is thin or thick to one person may not necessarily read the same to another.
Lastly, there are simply architects/designers who just don't know what they are doing professionally - regardless of what software they use. Knowing when to draft a 3" detail vs a 1" detail is extremely important. Thankfully, in Revit and ArchiCAD you can change the scale pretty easily, but if you are not consistent with drawing standards, lineweights may stop reading correctly.
And then there is the issue of lists and broken parts and parameters that don't report correctly - the bane of my being. Figuring out how to troubleshoot is extremely frustrating - especially with people who are new to the software.
That's it.
Spoons
May 5, 18 7:16 pm
Updating software, managing licenses, and troubleshooting any CAD software requires full time staff support staff at an office over a handful of people. It's a time suck and additional cost.
The softwares can also be pretty frustrating to use, not just because of the difficulty in learning them, but because they tend to be pretty buggy. They don't always behave consistently, they crash and people lose work and waste time trying to work around short comings in the programs.
Non Sequitur
May 5, 18 7:33 pm
Lazy student.
thatsthat
May 5, 18 7:40 pm
At least this kid admitted it.
Miles Jaffe
May 5, 18 8:56 pm
The delusion that competence with software equates to competence in design.
accesskb
May 5, 18 9:11 pm
why it takes half an hour to draw something on Revit when it takes me 10 seconds using a pen and paper
BulgarBlogger
May 6, 18 12:50 pm
There was a study with children where psychologists offered kids a piece of candy. The kids could either eat it immediately, or if they waited, they would get two pieces of candy. The psychological study was about whether or not the kids wanted immediate gratification or were able to understand investment.
You don't understand investment. Once the 2d sketch is done, it exists in a microcosm and has no way of being integrated into the larger workflow.
The Stanford Prison Experiment has more relavence to architecture.
accesskb
May 7, 18 7:50 pm
that's where A.I. can come in these days. CAD softwares should be able to convert sketches into CAD drawings within seconds and even work at the speed of thought. Computers are powerful enough to process fast, accurately and consistently than most human brain. Why is it more confusing and taking longer to set up drawings
randomised
May 6, 18 6:10 am
Having problems finding and installing working "cracked" versions, with all these torrent sites having to shut down?
curtkram
May 6, 18 11:47 am
i've been getting a lot of revit crashes lately. it would be better if it stopped doing that.
archinine
May 6, 18 2:02 pm
Interns saying they ‘know’ a software at an ‘expert’ level and me finding out in the first hour that they don’t know shit about architecture or the software.
randomised
May 6, 18 2:52 pm
They probably indicate that with fancy graphs in their CV, 5 stars!
thatsthat
May 6, 18 11:24 pm
This is the worst!!! If they can’t show on a CV that they’ve used a particular software in a professional setting, we assume they don’t know how to use it.
senjohnblutarsky
May 7, 18 4:11 pm
PICNIC
Problem in Chair Not in Computer
zonker
May 7, 18 5:03 pm
10 years ago, in the early days of Revit, there were a lot of BIM WIT charlatans out there - people that made big claims before making a big mess out of your project
Quentin
May 7, 18 5:20 pm
I want to through my computer with its stupid ArchiCAD out the window on a daily basis.
Sam Apoc
May 7, 18 5:24 pm
Lack of backwards compatibility in Revit can be an issue when working with consultants / outside offices who haven't updated to the latest version yet. But pretty much everyone is on the subscription service now anyways, so it just forces everyone to update every year, keeping us latched on the Autodesk teet...
curtkram
May 7, 18 7:40 pm
if they spent half the money they spend on lawyers and clever licensing models on developing better software, we probably wouldn't even have this thread.
Wilma Buttfit
May 7, 18 5:38 pm
Software should be about 10% of the efforts but seems to take up 90% of the efforts. And the migraines.
mightyaa
May 7, 18 7:15 pm
A few things I’ve noticed over the years (I started when we still handdrafted).
Limited skills and stuff your software can do tends to stifle designs to suit your software abilities versus what YOU are capable of designing. Basically, people tend to take the easiest path. If the software hates radius walls, then I doubt you’ll see them…
Related… Fighting the software to do something design wise and finally getting it done. Once you get that far, someone like me with a red pen tends to create disgruntled employees when we change or take it out. I almost had an employee quit when I took out her reducing radius stair (cool, but no way the owner could afford it, so out it went). She’d spent a long time slowly building it in the computer.
Next issue; Just because it’s easy, doesn’t mean you should. Section tool abuse is common. Quantity does not make up for quality.
Another issue; Getting into the detail way too early in the design. I’ve seen fully dimensioned ansi compliant toilet rooms (or some other critical dimension element) in schematic when they haven’t even worked out the plan functionally. Just because you can offset and put in all the required clearances doesn’t mean you should do it first thing and start locking in things. Particularly fun when later I tell them to add another stall and the resultant chaos that ensues. If they’d just used an oversized room instead of trying to minimize that early, it’d be easy later… but no… design to the bare minimum and sure enough, something changes down the line where you’ll be redesigning the whole floor.
Wilma Buttfit
May 7, 18 7:45 pm
Yes, the whole "locking in" thing drives me nuts. No, we are not "locking in" the size, shape, and configuration of the first windows we draw in the first schematic plan. This is the kind of thing that makes me stomp out of the room crying. :) The software was supposed to facilitate the design process, not impede it! Too many let the software dictate the design. Struck a nerve here, ha ha.
Miles Jaffe
May 7, 18 8:04 pm
[true story]
JV with local architect for production. I gave them a complete kitchen design for inclusion in Revit CDs.
The plans and elevations were hand drafted at scale, fully dimensioned and detailed. It took me 4 hours to produce including design.
They billed 24 hours to input in Revit. On top of that they overbilled the owner after I expressly denied the overcharges. The owner was such a good guy he just paid the bill without question and I didn't find out until later.
Later I also found out that one of this guy's (several) claims to fame was that the first house he designed for himself - sod roof, no lateral bracing - collapsed.
Wilma Buttfit
May 7, 18 8:28 pm
But you can take 48 section cuts through the modeled kitchen. And quantify the amount of glue required.
Miles Jaffe
May 7, 18 8:59 pm
BIM job has a remarkable resemblance to rim job.
Non Sequitur
May 7, 18 9:42 pm
Tintt, do you have to create a zero thickness layer in your assemblies to represent the glue layer? What about caulk? should I model it as a parametric blob to better show the typical contractor's end result?
Miles Jaffe
May 7, 18 9:56 pm
Glue layers are typically .002" to .006" (.05-.15mm for the standard deficient). You don't call this o
ut?!
Non Sequitur
May 7, 18 10:48 pm
I normally outsource my glue calcs to a structural p.eng
Wilma Buttfit
May 7, 18 11:18 pm
I have the software run all the glue calcs and quants and spit out the data in tabular form. No chance for error that way.
Wilma Buttfit
May 8, 18 10:34 am
I put on my khaki's first tho.
randomised
May 8, 18 1:44 pm
AutoKhaki's
Wilma Buttfit
May 8, 18 2:13 pm
If I could have an autokhaki command, I would feel very fulfilled.
Well ive got homework and you read it on the title. So even when CAD tech is means to solve problems it as well generates new ones or difficulties. So for u users of this kind of technology what is problems u usually face using it?
Here are a few thoughts:
Anytime a new software comes out, most people in the industry have to spend time learning it. You can either spend time on your own or you can spend time during work. The problem with the latter is that most companies simply don't want to invest in it. The problem with the former is that you are now cutting into your own/family time to learn a software without understanding your firm's workflow organizational structure. Additionally, its one thing to take a class in a software, and its a completely different thing to use it for a project. What complicates things further is that there is no such thing as not having a deadline. That said, you have to be able to quickly know how to produce instruments of service with the software while also meeting your deadline(s).
In general, I think having an intuitive interface is a big plus for any software. Open any software AutoCAD, Revit, ArchiCAD, 3Ds Max - these softwares have a million different options, and they should. But to get someone off the ground and productive, there are only a handful of commands/options/tools that an employee needs to know. Understanding where those commands/options are located is vital. Also, it gets really frustrated when you have parameters nested inside other objects. Building things the correct way, getting those things to appear properly, etc can get extremely frustrating.
Architects hate standardization of drawing formats and layer systems because they feel it takes away from their individuality and creative license. If someone starts drafting, but uses a slightly different pen weight that is not the standard one used can get really annoying. Drawings stop reading consistently. What is thin or thick to one person may not necessarily read the same to another.
Lastly, there are simply architects/designers who just don't know what they are doing professionally - regardless of what software they use. Knowing when to draft a 3" detail vs a 1" detail is extremely important. Thankfully, in Revit and ArchiCAD you can change the scale pretty easily, but if you are not consistent with drawing standards, lineweights may stop reading correctly.
And then there is the issue of lists and broken parts and parameters that don't report correctly - the bane of my being. Figuring out how to troubleshoot is extremely frustrating - especially with people who are new to the software.
That's it.
Updating software, managing licenses, and troubleshooting any CAD software requires full time staff support staff at an office over a handful of people. It's a time suck and additional cost.
The softwares can also be pretty frustrating to use, not just because of the difficulty in learning them, but because they tend to be pretty buggy. They don't always behave consistently, they crash and people lose work and waste time trying to work around short comings in the programs.
Lazy student.
At least this kid admitted it.
The delusion that competence with software equates to competence in design.
why it takes half an hour to draw something on Revit when it takes me 10 seconds using a pen and paper
There was a study with children where psychologists offered kids a piece of candy. The kids could either eat it immediately, or if they waited, they would get two pieces of candy. The psychological study was about whether or not the kids wanted immediate gratification or were able to understand investment. You don't understand investment. Once the 2d sketch is done, it exists in a microcosm and has no way of being integrated into the larger workflow.
v
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment
The Stanford Prison Experiment has more relavence to architecture.
that's where A.I. can come in these days. CAD softwares should be able to convert sketches into CAD drawings within seconds and even work at the speed of thought. Computers are powerful enough to process fast, accurately and consistently than most human brain. Why is it more confusing and taking longer to set up drawings
Having problems finding and installing working "cracked" versions, with all these torrent sites having to shut down?
i've been getting a lot of revit crashes lately. it would be better if it stopped doing that.
Interns saying they ‘know’ a software at an ‘expert’ level and me finding out in the first hour that they don’t know shit about architecture or the software.
They probably indicate that with fancy graphs in their CV, 5 stars!
This is the worst!!! If they can’t show on a CV that they’ve used a particular software in a professional setting, we assume they don’t know how to use it.
PICNIC
Problem in Chair Not in Computer
10 years ago, in the early days of Revit, there were a lot of BIM WIT charlatans out there - people that made big claims before making a big mess out of your project
I want to through my computer with its stupid ArchiCAD out the window on a daily basis.
Lack of backwards compatibility in Revit can be an issue when working with consultants / outside offices who haven't updated to the latest version yet. But pretty much everyone is on the subscription service now anyways, so it just forces everyone to update every year, keeping us latched on the Autodesk teet...
if they spent half the money they spend on lawyers and clever licensing models on developing better software, we probably wouldn't even have this thread.
Software should be about 10% of the efforts but seems to take up 90% of the efforts. And the migraines.
A few things I’ve noticed over the years (I started when we still handdrafted).
Limited skills and stuff your software can do tends to stifle designs to suit your software abilities versus what YOU are capable of designing. Basically, people tend to take the easiest path. If the software hates radius walls, then I doubt you’ll see them…
Related… Fighting the software to do something design wise and finally getting it done. Once you get that far, someone like me with a red pen tends to create disgruntled employees when we change or take it out. I almost had an employee quit when I took out her reducing radius stair (cool, but no way the owner could afford it, so out it went). She’d spent a long time slowly building it in the computer.
Next issue; Just because it’s easy, doesn’t mean you should. Section tool abuse is common. Quantity does not make up for quality.
Another issue; Getting into the detail way too early in the design. I’ve seen fully dimensioned ansi compliant toilet rooms (or some other critical dimension element) in schematic when they haven’t even worked out the plan functionally. Just because you can offset and put in all the required clearances doesn’t mean you should do it first thing and start locking in things. Particularly fun when later I tell them to add another stall and the resultant chaos that ensues. If they’d just used an oversized room instead of trying to minimize that early, it’d be easy later… but no… design to the bare minimum and sure enough, something changes down the line where you’ll be redesigning the whole floor.
Yes, the whole "locking in" thing drives me nuts. No, we are not "locking in" the size, shape, and configuration of the first windows we draw in the first schematic plan. This is the kind of thing that makes me stomp out of the room crying. :) The software was supposed to facilitate the design process, not impede it! Too many let the software dictate the design. Struck a nerve here, ha ha.
[true story]
JV with local architect for production. I gave them a complete kitchen design for inclusion in Revit CDs.
The plans and elevations were hand drafted at scale, fully dimensioned and detailed. It took me 4 hours to produce including design.
They billed 24 hours to input in Revit. On top of that they overbilled the owner after I expressly denied the overcharges. The owner was such a good guy he just paid the bill without question and I didn't find out until later.
Later I also found out that one of this guy's (several) claims to fame was that the first house he designed for himself - sod roof, no lateral bracing - collapsed.
But you can take 48 section cuts through the modeled kitchen. And quantify the amount of glue required.
BIM job has a remarkable resemblance to rim job.
Tintt, do you have to create a zero thickness layer in your assemblies to represent the glue layer? What about caulk? should I model it as a parametric blob to better show the typical contractor's end result?
Glue layers are typically .002" to .006" (.05-.15mm for the standard deficient). You don't call this o ut?!
I normally outsource my glue calcs to a structural p.eng
I have the software run all the glue calcs and quants and spit out the data in tabular form. No chance for error that way.
I put on my khaki's first tho.
AutoKhaki's
If I could have an autokhaki command, I would feel very fulfilled.
ctrl+shift k
Carpal tunnel syndrome.
except not.
I can't figure out how to open it ...
the handle looks smooth, can I lick that part?