When the scope of your work is not within the narrow confines of the AIA's model of practice of the gentlemanly professional commission, where do you turn for support? For example, I'm looking to use an AIA doc to help guide my work, but the work is a whole series of buildings that will be repeated on multiple sites. I get that the AIA doesn't want me to do that because they don't consider it architecture or gentlemanly. So is there any other place I should look for support with documents and templates or am I going to have to make it all up?
Every form imaginable plus general conditions and the like are available there.
thisisnotmyname
May 1, 18 12:03 pm
You can modify any and all AIA contracts by revising the language, deleting sections, or adding supplemental conditions.
I suggest you invest in having a lawyer help you out with developing the appropriate contract for what you are planning to do. Your professional liability insurance agent should be able to recommend someone in your area that knows construction law.
geezertect
May 1, 18 12:08 pm
Good idea about asking your liability carrier, since the better your contract is, the less likely you will be sucked into unanticipated liability for which your insurance company will face exposure.
mightyaa
May 1, 18 12:17 pm
I know my professional liability carrier was happy to look over my modifications to make sure I stayed covered. One risk assessment you'll need to be aware of is with this sort of work, you take on liability of every building constructed off those drawings. So make sure you are adequately compensated and/or have very specific liability limitations set forth in the contract.
Think of it this way; how you design in Florida will be different than Minnesota.
Wilma Buttfit
May 1, 18 2:02 pm
Thanks everyone.
Miles Jaffe
May 1, 18 1:04 pm
Draft a simple letter agreement specific to the situation. AIA contracts suck and are designed for arbitration, which you want to avoid at all costs.
I would do two. One would be for the original design and would clearly state your ownership of the design and authorization for a single use.
The other would be for multiple use based on the "proven" design with a fee per use. You could assign exclusive rights to the design with payment on a per-use basis and a hold harmless.
For repeated use you probably want to consider how to deal with changes - both by you and not by you - and what effects and consequences they may have.
Whatever agreement you make it's only as good as how much 'law' you can afford to buy if things go south. Letter agreements lay out basic terms and are accepted with payment of the retainer Avoid minutiae except where it is critical for you and include a payment schedule. Keep it simple with an easy exit.
Wilma Buttfit
May 1, 18 1:40 pm
This is it. Thanks Miles.
curtkram
May 1, 18 10:15 pm
the gentlemanly architect in me says permission to use a single design multiple times is a bad idea. you could charge less with subsequent uses of the design since reuse of work you did means less work for you, but you should still have time in the project to verify it works with the local site conditions and regulations.
Wilma Buttfit
May 1, 18 11:46 pm
Building plans and parts get recycled all the time.
Dangermouse
May 1, 18 1:55 pm
hire a lawyer and have him create the documents you need. don't waste valuable time tracking down forms on some inscrutable state website, pay a professional, a good lawyer makes you money.
Wilma Buttfit
May 1, 18 2:00 pm
Yes, this sounds good. Only problem is that is a major outlay of cash and if it doesn't go through I'm out that cash. The risks have to be managed.
Miles Jaffe
May 1, 18 2:38 pm
I avoid lawyers like the plague. See Jaffe's Second Law.
JLC-1
May 2, 18 12:52 pm
lawyers as clients, worst nightmare....
curtkram
May 1, 18 8:06 pm
why not get a new contract signed for each site?
Wilma Buttfit
May 1, 18 8:14 pm
Yup
Wilma Buttfit
May 1, 18 9:05 pm
I just want to be the artsy fartsy designer.
Miles Jaffe
May 1, 18 9:09 pm
Now you're catching on! All this architecting stuff is for the birds.
Wilma Buttfit
May 2, 18 12:19 pm
Update: It's coming together. Thanks everyone. Much appreciated.
Wilma Buttfit
May 2, 18 1:31 pm
Does anyone know if the AIA has a mentor support hotline or something like that? Where a young start-up like me can call and get advice from an experienced architect, perhaps a retiree? If so, I'd consider joining.
Hmmm. Type "AIA small firm roundtable" into your browser and it should come up in search results.
Wilma Buttfit
May 2, 18 4:00 pm
found it! Thanks!
mightyaa
May 2, 18 1:36 pm
Ages ago, AIA had a 'small firm roundtable' group. It was nice when I first started taking over my firm. Mostly single proprietor types with varying experience and time running firms. Also don't forget the 'chamber of commerce' type organizations. They have a lot of business type groups that will help you set up.
Wilma Buttfit
May 2, 18 2:27 pm
Sometimes participating in those types of things sidetracks and distracts me more than helps. And all these events take time and energy (and child care) where just calling or emailing saves massive amounts of time and energy.
mightyaa
May 2, 18 4:40 pm
Meh... It was a hour long breakfast. And networking opportunity. So, in my roundtable was Brad Buchanan and his partner John with their architect led design/build firm. Now he's running Denver Planning.. It also led me to some guest speaker things with the AIA and a nomination for Young Architect of the Year (wasn't even close though). The South Metro Chamber thing I did landed me a series of tenant finishes and mall kiosk for one of the other guys as well as leads on publishers and marketing; that one was in the evening (and led to hiring a publisher and getting articles in magazines).
mightyaa
May 2, 18 4:43 pm
Should also mention it gave me insight on hiring out the bookkeeping, accountants, software, HR issues, etc. in sort of the 'how to run a business' kind of education from others who are also pressed on time and found shortcuts to free up the 'non-billable running a firm' to 'doing the work' so I had more time with the family and wasn't juggling as much.
Rusty!
May 2, 18 4:17 pm
Is this specifically Owner-Architect agreement question? A lot of AIA forms involving the GC will be completely out of your control. And yes Owner-Contractor Agreement forms are often custom, and you may not even get to see them on your project.
What kind of shortcuts are you looking for in multiple site construction? Each site will still require a unique permit set that is stamped accordingly. I would not want to have a single agreement form that cover multiple projects. Even if design is completely identical, each instance is a unique project.
Wilma Buttfit
May 2, 18 4:28 pm
Owner-Contractor agreements are something I will likely never see, correct. Each project is unique, yes, and each will have their own set and permit. There are multiple projects planned that will happen almost simultaneously, some could start and stop, and all will have overlap, swapping of parts etc. Like instead of making one custom home, we will make several at once. (Think somewhere between custom and spec homes.) Probably will build a big shed to develop components and pre-fab some of it too but that's yet to come.
Rusty!
May 2, 18 4:55 pm
Are you looking at the right docs? B102 is typically used for small projects, but that is a condensed form that doesn't go into defining scope of work. B103 allows you to set up multiple phase project (even if phases are run concurrently). Standard form is quite customizable. If you can't afford a lawyer, that sucks. Not even highly experienced project managers should edit such forms and then give them to a client before legal has a pass through them.
Wilma Buttfit
May 2, 18 5:06 pm
I'll check them out thanks. I was looking at the B101 and the B105.
Rusty!
May 2, 18 5:10 pm
B101 and 105 are listed on AIA's front page, so I understand why you went there first. You have to search for B103. Don't be affraid of the name of the form "Large or Complex Project". This is exactly what your project can be described as.
Wilma Buttfit
May 2, 18 5:31 pm
Yes, thanks. It would be great to have an app that created contracts. The app would be a robot who studied all of the body of case law of construction and real estate, all of the feedback for all projects prior, and all of the current fee indexes (like the nasdaq).
When the scope of your work is not within the narrow confines of the AIA's model of practice of the gentlemanly professional commission, where do you turn for support? For example, I'm looking to use an AIA doc to help guide my work, but the work is a whole series of buildings that will be repeated on multiple sites. I get that the AIA doesn't want me to do that because they don't consider it architecture or gentlemanly. So is there any other place I should look for support with documents and templates or am I going to have to make it all up?
You could locate some forms specific to your state and their work. For instance Virginia has: https://dgs.virginia.gov/searc...
Every form imaginable plus general conditions and the like are available there.
You can modify any and all AIA contracts by revising the language, deleting sections, or adding supplemental conditions.
I suggest you invest in having a lawyer help you out with developing the appropriate contract for what you are planning to do. Your professional liability insurance agent should be able to recommend someone in your area that knows construction law.
Good idea about asking your liability carrier, since the better your contract is, the less likely you will be sucked into unanticipated liability for which your insurance company will face exposure.
I know my professional liability carrier was happy to look over my modifications to make sure I stayed covered. One risk assessment you'll need to be aware of is with this sort of work, you take on liability of every building constructed off those drawings. So make sure you are adequately compensated and/or have very specific liability limitations set forth in the contract. Think of it this way; how you design in Florida will be different than Minnesota.
Thanks everyone.
Draft a simple letter agreement specific to the situation. AIA contracts suck and are designed for arbitration, which you want to avoid at all costs.
I would do two. One would be for the original design and would clearly state your ownership of the design and authorization for a single use.
The other would be for multiple use based on the "proven" design with a fee per use. You could assign exclusive rights to the design with payment on a per-use basis and a hold harmless.
For repeated use you probably want to consider how to deal with changes - both by you and not by you - and what effects and consequences they may have.
Whatever agreement you make it's only as good as how much 'law' you can afford to buy if things go south. Letter agreements lay out basic terms and are accepted with payment of the retainer Avoid minutiae except where it is critical for you and include a payment schedule. Keep it simple with an easy exit.
This is it. Thanks Miles.
the gentlemanly architect in me says permission to use a single design multiple times is a bad idea. you could charge less with subsequent uses of the design since reuse of work you did means less work for you, but you should still have time in the project to verify it works with the local site conditions and regulations.
Building plans and parts get recycled all the time.
hire a lawyer and have him create the documents you need. don't waste valuable time tracking down forms on some inscrutable state website, pay a professional, a good lawyer makes you money.
Yes, this sounds good. Only problem is that is a major outlay of cash and if it doesn't go through I'm out that cash. The risks have to be managed.
I avoid lawyers like the plague. See Jaffe's Second Law.
lawyers as clients, worst nightmare....
why not get a new contract signed for each site?
Yup
I just want to be the artsy fartsy designer.
Now you're catching on! All this architecting stuff is for the birds.
Update: It's coming together. Thanks everyone. Much appreciated.
Does anyone know if the AIA has a mentor support hotline or something like that? Where a young start-up like me can call and get advice from an experienced architect, perhaps a retiree? If so, I'd consider joining.
I found this on the AIA national website: https://network.aia.org/smallf...
Page Not Found.
Hmmm. Type "AIA small firm roundtable" into your browser and it should come up in search results.
found it! Thanks!
Ages ago, AIA had a 'small firm roundtable' group. It was nice when I first started taking over my firm. Mostly single proprietor types with varying experience and time running firms. Also don't forget the 'chamber of commerce' type organizations. They have a lot of business type groups that will help you set up.
Sometimes participating in those types of things sidetracks and distracts me more than helps. And all these events take time and energy (and child care) where just calling or emailing saves massive amounts of time and energy.
Meh... It was a hour long breakfast. And networking opportunity. So, in my roundtable was Brad Buchanan and his partner John with their architect led design/build firm. Now he's running Denver Planning.. It also led me to some guest speaker things with the AIA and a nomination for Young Architect of the Year (wasn't even close though). The South Metro Chamber thing I did landed me a series of tenant finishes and mall kiosk for one of the other guys as well as leads on publishers and marketing; that one was in the evening (and led to hiring a publisher and getting articles in magazines).
Should also mention it gave me insight on hiring out the bookkeeping, accountants, software, HR issues, etc. in sort of the 'how to run a business' kind of education from others who are also pressed on time and found shortcuts to free up the 'non-billable running a firm' to 'doing the work' so I had more time with the family and wasn't juggling as much.
Is this specifically Owner-Architect agreement question? A lot of AIA forms involving the GC will be completely out of your control. And yes Owner-Contractor Agreement forms are often custom, and you may not even get to see them on your project.
What kind of shortcuts are you looking for in multiple site construction? Each site will still require a unique permit set that is stamped accordingly. I would not want to have a single agreement form that cover multiple projects. Even if design is completely identical, each instance is a unique project.
Owner-Contractor agreements are something I will likely never see, correct. Each project is unique, yes, and each will have their own set and permit. There are multiple projects planned that will happen almost simultaneously, some could start and stop, and all will have overlap, swapping of parts etc. Like instead of making one custom home, we will make several at once. (Think somewhere between custom and spec homes.) Probably will build a big shed to develop components and pre-fab some of it too but that's yet to come.
Are you looking at the right docs? B102 is typically used for small projects, but that is a condensed form that doesn't go into defining scope of work. B103 allows you to set up multiple phase project (even if phases are run concurrently). Standard form is quite customizable. If you can't afford a lawyer, that sucks. Not even highly experienced project managers should edit such forms and then give them to a client before legal has a pass through them.
I'll check them out thanks. I was looking at the B101 and the B105.
B101 and 105 are listed on AIA's front page, so I understand why you went there first. You have to search for B103. Don't be affraid of the name of the form "Large or Complex Project". This is exactly what your project can be described as.
Yes, thanks. It would be great to have an app that created contracts. The app would be a robot who studied all of the body of case law of construction and real estate, all of the feedback for all projects prior, and all of the current fee indexes (like the nasdaq).