I understand we can use NCARB after our name once we get the NCARB Certificate, it means we got a license at least in one state within US passing ARE or BEFA, BEA ( not sure if still exist these programs). The point is I know a colombian guy that has no license in any US state, and he uses NCARB after his name, in his business cards and company website. He is a Principal in an Architectural firm with a registered american architect. the guy opened a record with NCARB long time ago, I am pretty sure this record is no active, and I am sure having just a record doesn't allow him to use NCARB after his name. Is this a fraud? I would say yes... but what really we can do regarding this situation? I sent to NCARB the guy name to confirm what I already confirmed in our State Professional licensing Board. He has no license, no NCARB certificate, just an inactive old NCARB record to start the IDP and exams...
Is this a felony? it has any legal implication like a fraud? or just the guy will be required to drop the NCARB "qualification" after name?
accesskb
Apr 7, 18 7:20 pm
I appoint you the 'license' police.
AlejandraMJ
Apr 8, 18 11:30 am
I hope you get the important issue hidden in this situation. This guy has clients, he takes projects, get architect fees, doesn't pay any license, has no legal responsibility. The clients don't know he hasn't a valid license. It is like you go to a Doctor, you pay the guy to do a medical procedure, then you find out he has no license but his business card and his webpage says he is a licensed Doctor... how will you feel?
Lisa Sauve
Apr 9, 18 5:37 pm
As long as someone is an acting Architect of Record and is taking into account the life safety and welfare as well as legal and liability there is no issue other than the fraud of a title. I would be fine if a doctor told me a PA was going to handle most of my medical case and would check in as needed. Same goes for a designer with an architect checking in. If he thinks he needs NCARB after his name to get projects, then I wouldn't worry about him too much.
JBeaumont
Apr 7, 18 8:41 pm
It is not a felony. Unless it could be established that some quantifiable harm resulted as a direct result of this misrepresentation it's unlikely that he could be charged with any crime, even a misdemeanor, over this.
You can contact NCARB and they will send him a notice to stop using "NCARB" after his name, if in fact he has no current license in a US state or territory.
AlejandraMJ
Apr 8, 18 11:15 am
Thank you for the feedback. He hasn't any license in the US. He signs contract documents, of course nothing related to permits. He signs proposals, change orders, applications for payments, etc, under "the architect" ...
JBeaumont
Apr 8, 18 11:35 am
If he's signing as an owner or authorized officer of a firm that is legally able to provide architectural services, then he is allowed to sign under "the Architect...", because "the Architect" is the company, and he's an authorized agent.
In some states it is not legal for an unlicensed person to be an owner in an architecture firm. In other states it is legal. In still other states it depends on how many owners there are, and what percentage of the firm is owned by an unlicensed person.
If this person is in violation of state law, you can file a complaint with that state's board. It's an administrative issue, not criminal. At most he will be fined and officially told that he's in violation of state statutes.
AlejandraMJ
Apr 8, 18 11:58 am
Thanks a lot. I started sharing my concern with NCARB, after all they do the rules regarding when you can use NCARB after your name, regarding what means to use it.
To me NCARB needs to contact the State Board. We pay NCARB, AIA, etc to represent us and our profession. They rule our profession, it is their work not mine.
JBeaumont
Apr 8, 18 12:05 pm
NCARB will not contact the state board. They're a record-checking and credential-awarding organization, but do not enforce state laws. You'd need to report this directly to the board if you want to do anything further than get him warned about use of "NCARB".
AIA is a professional organization -they advocate at the state level, but have no authority or involvement with individuals infractions.
geezertect
Apr 8, 18 11:42 am
Rat him out to the NCARB and see what if anything they do. If he's part of a firm that has a legit registered architect, the most that will probably happen is that he'll get a slap on the wrist and the other principal will do the stamping and signing. Yeah, it's irritating but of little consequence in the real world. There are bigger issues to obsess about. One more example of how being a licensed architect just doesn't count for much.
JBeaumont
Apr 8, 18 11:49 am
NCARB will only send him a letter to stop using "NCARB". I've reported people twice for this and both times they were sent a letter by NCARB and stopped using it. But NCARB won't get involved in issues of what he's signing and such. NCARB isn't a regulatory authority and has no jurisdiction to handle that sort of thing. You'd have to go to the state board to complain about illegal practice - but again it depends on the state. What's described here is legal in Massachusetts, for example, but illegal in New York. Talk to the state board if you're not clear on their regulations.
JBeaumont
Apr 8, 18 11:49 am
.
JBeaumont
Apr 8, 18 11:49 am
.
AlejandraMJ
Apr 8, 18 12:13 pm
thanks again!
AlejandraMJ
Apr 8, 18 12:21 pm
by the way, I am not trying to do a witch hunting... in fact, I am trying to protect our profession. Thousands of Architects in this guy situation, being Architects with no license, follow the rules, they work under the supervision of a licensed Architect. Cheating is very unprofessional and harms the profession.
In addition, a client feels it is easy to be foolish with all the acronyms we use that promote this kind of scams more than doing a difference between a licensed Architect and someone that didn't comply with the laws and regulations to became legally RA.
AlejandraMJ
Apr 8, 18 12:24 pm
JBeaumont it was a great conversation. Thank you!
AlejandraMJ
Apr 8, 18 12:47 pm
I agree with you we have other issues, but everything is important when we are really serious about the profession and in many ways these kind of issues link us with other important topics.
kjdt
Apr 8, 18 1:21 pm
Some people really don't know they can't use "NCARB" just because they've started an NCARB record. I've had coworkers who started doing that because they'd seen others use it, and just didn't know anything about certification. He could be confused. As for the rest of it, it all just depends on regulations wherever this firm is. I was a partner before I was licensed and that's ok in my state.
AlejandraMJ
Apr 8, 18 1:29 pm
sorry, I don't buy "THEY DON'T KNOW". we are speaking about professionals, with certain education. If you open a record with NCARB for sure you did read about almost everything concerning NCARB, IDP, ARE, etc, etc....
kjdt
Apr 8, 18 1:36 pm
That would be the hope, yes, but it's not always the reality. These days you don't need any education or professional experience at all to start an NCARB record - just a high school diploma and $90 or whatever it is now.
AlejandraMJ
Apr 8, 18 1:50 pm
well, this is an important issue and you confirm my concerns.
Flatfish
Apr 9, 18 2:52 pm
Beyond ratting the guy out to NCARB, the effectiveness of trying to pursue it any further will depend on which state you're in. There are some that are aggressive about fining unlicensed people, and enforcing those fines. California for instance has been known to fine people amounts in the tens of thousands of dollars, and to attach per-day fines for each day that misleading information is not removed from websites and such. But many other states are more lax, with maximum fines for any license-related infraction topping out in the $500 to $1000 range. More distressing is that some states have no resources or mechanisms to chase people to actually collect the fines or make them stop doing the illegal things they're doing - they don't garnish wages or send law enforcement or anything - so sometimes the perpetrators just send back any letters from the board unopened and never comply with boards' decisions or pay the fines, and just go on doing what they're doing. I understand why you're concerned with the issue, you might want to look into the state's decisions from similar cases before you decide to put a lot of your effort into this, as in some states there's little to be gained except higher blood pressure for you.
AlejandraMJ
Apr 10, 18 8:22 am
thanks a lot for the feedback! this is the point if we never do a thing, nothing change. If we pay almost $700 dollars to AIA + 225 to NCARB, and they rule what I need to do to keep my license active with the State Board, I guess they can use this alliance to avoid this misconduct. I don't think it is important the penalty regarding money if they need to pay 1,000 or 10,000, to me it is important who practice architecture. Fair game.
I understand we can use NCARB after our name once we get the NCARB Certificate, it means we got a license at least in one state within US passing ARE or BEFA, BEA ( not sure if still exist these programs). The point is I know a colombian guy that has no license in any US state, and he uses NCARB after his name, in his business cards and company website. He is a Principal in an Architectural firm with a registered american architect. the guy opened a record with NCARB long time ago, I am pretty sure this record is no active, and I am sure having just a record doesn't allow him to use NCARB after his name. Is this a fraud? I would say yes... but what really we can do regarding this situation? I sent to NCARB the guy name to confirm what I already confirmed in our State Professional licensing Board. He has no license, no NCARB certificate, just an inactive old NCARB record to start the IDP and exams...
Is this a felony? it has any legal implication like a fraud? or just the guy will be required to drop the NCARB "qualification" after name?
I appoint you the 'license' police.
I hope you get the important issue hidden in this situation. This guy has clients, he takes projects, get architect fees, doesn't pay any license, has no legal responsibility. The clients don't know he hasn't a valid license. It is like you go to a Doctor, you pay the guy to do a medical procedure, then you find out he has no license but his business card and his webpage says he is a licensed Doctor... how will you feel?
As long as someone is an acting Architect of Record and is taking into account the life safety and welfare as well as legal and liability there is no issue other than the fraud of a title. I would be fine if a doctor told me a PA was going to handle most of my medical case and would check in as needed. Same goes for a designer with an architect checking in. If he thinks he needs NCARB after his name to get projects, then I wouldn't worry about him too much.
It is not a felony. Unless it could be established that some quantifiable harm resulted as a direct result of this misrepresentation it's unlikely that he could be charged with any crime, even a misdemeanor, over this.
You can contact NCARB and they will send him a notice to stop using "NCARB" after his name, if in fact he has no current license in a US state or territory.
Thank you for the feedback. He hasn't any license in the US. He signs contract documents, of course nothing related to permits. He signs proposals, change orders, applications for payments, etc, under "the architect" ...
If he's signing as an owner or authorized officer of a firm that is legally able to provide architectural services, then he is allowed to sign under "the Architect...", because "the Architect" is the company, and he's an authorized agent.
In some states it is not legal for an unlicensed person to be an owner in an architecture firm. In other states it is legal. In still other states it depends on how many owners there are, and what percentage of the firm is owned by an unlicensed person.
If this person is in violation of state law, you can file a complaint with that state's board. It's an administrative issue, not criminal. At most he will be fined and officially told that he's in violation of state statutes.
Thanks a lot. I started sharing my concern with NCARB, after all they do the rules regarding when you can use NCARB after your name, regarding what means to use it. To me NCARB needs to contact the State Board. We pay NCARB, AIA, etc to represent us and our profession. They rule our profession, it is their work not mine.
NCARB will not contact the state board. They're a record-checking and credential-awarding organization, but do not enforce state laws. You'd need to report this directly to the board if you want to do anything further than get him warned about use of "NCARB".
AIA is a professional organization -they advocate at the state level, but have no authority or involvement with individuals infractions.
Rat him out to the NCARB and see what if anything they do. If he's part of a firm that has a legit registered architect, the most that will probably happen is that he'll get a slap on the wrist and the other principal will do the stamping and signing. Yeah, it's irritating but of little consequence in the real world. There are bigger issues to obsess about. One more example of how being a licensed architect just doesn't count for much.
NCARB will only send him a letter to stop using "NCARB". I've reported people twice for this and both times they were sent a letter by NCARB and stopped using it. But NCARB won't get involved in issues of what he's signing and such. NCARB isn't a regulatory authority and has no jurisdiction to handle that sort of thing. You'd have to go to the state board to complain about illegal practice - but again it depends on the state. What's described here is legal in Massachusetts, for example, but illegal in New York. Talk to the state board if you're not clear on their regulations.
.
.
thanks again!
by the way, I am not trying to do a witch hunting... in fact, I am trying to protect our profession. Thousands of Architects in this guy situation, being Architects with no license, follow the rules, they work under the supervision of a licensed Architect. Cheating is very unprofessional and harms the profession. In addition, a client feels it is easy to be foolish with all the acronyms we use that promote this kind of scams more than doing a difference between a licensed Architect and someone that didn't comply with the laws and regulations to became legally RA.
JBeaumont it was a great conversation. Thank you!
I agree with you we have other issues, but everything is important when we are really serious about the profession and in many ways these kind of issues link us with other important topics.
Some people really don't know they can't use "NCARB" just because they've started an NCARB record. I've had coworkers who started doing that because they'd seen others use it, and just didn't know anything about certification. He could be confused. As for the rest of it, it all just depends on regulations wherever this firm is. I was a partner before I was licensed and that's ok in my state.
sorry, I don't buy "THEY DON'T KNOW". we are speaking about professionals, with certain education. If you open a record with NCARB for sure you did read about almost everything concerning NCARB, IDP, ARE, etc, etc....
That would be the hope, yes, but it's not always the reality. These days you don't need any education or professional experience at all to start an NCARB record - just a high school diploma and $90 or whatever it is now.
well, this is an important issue and you confirm my concerns.
Beyond ratting the guy out to NCARB, the effectiveness of trying to pursue it any further will depend on which state you're in. There are some that are aggressive about fining unlicensed people, and enforcing those fines. California for instance has been known to fine people amounts in the tens of thousands of dollars, and to attach per-day fines for each day that misleading information is not removed from websites and such. But many other states are more lax, with maximum fines for any license-related infraction topping out in the $500 to $1000 range. More distressing is that some states have no resources or mechanisms to chase people to actually collect the fines or make them stop doing the illegal things they're doing - they don't garnish wages or send law enforcement or anything - so sometimes the perpetrators just send back any letters from the board unopened and never comply with boards' decisions or pay the fines, and just go on doing what they're doing. I understand why you're concerned with the issue, you might want to look into the state's decisions from similar cases before you decide to put a lot of your effort into this, as in some states there's little to be gained except higher blood pressure for you.
thanks a lot for the feedback! this is the point if we never do a thing, nothing change. If we pay almost $700 dollars to AIA + 225 to NCARB, and they rule what I need to do to keep my license active with the State Board, I guess they can use this alliance to avoid this misconduct. I don't think it is important the penalty regarding money if they need to pay 1,000 or 10,000, to me it is important who practice architecture. Fair game.
.