I am a current high school senior looking to become a licensed architect in the future, so I know that I'll need to earn a professional degree in order to be on the path toward licensure. This past fall, I applied to a number of architecture programs in hopes that I'd receive some sort of scholarship from some schools. But unfortunately, most schools -- generally the more 'elite' schools -- did not offer much scholarship, so I have taken them off my list. Virtually, my choice is now between two schools: Kent State in Kent, OH, and Penn State in State College, PA. Most online rankings of each architecture program and each university as a whole puts Penn State on top. Therefore, my decision should theoretically be a no-brainer.
But, here's where it gets tricky: Penn State offers a 5-year B.Arch program, meaning I could be licensed and ready to practice soon after graduation. Also, Penn State has a great alumni network, especially in PA (I'd be paying in-state tuition for PSU, too). On the other hand, Kent State has a 4 year B.S. in architecture program, and then a 1 year M.Arch program. So, at Kent State, I could also be licensed and ready to work after 5 years, but I'd have TWO degrees (bachelors and masters) instead of just one.
Another thing about Kent State is that due to a family tuition-waving benefit, we'd only have to pay for room and board rates, which is about $10K a year. Assuming I stay at Kent for 5 years, my family and I would only have to pay roughly $50K total. At Penn State, however, the total cost per year is roughly $33K, so a 5 year education there would be $165K. So we'd be saving $115K if I were to go to Kent State instead of Penn State.
But my question is -- is it worth it? I mean, the Penn State B.Arch is certainly more appealing with its international student body, great connections, and solid faculty, but is it worth it to go to a school that is ranked a good amount lower than the other one, even if we're saving a large amount of money? Or is it more worth it to 'bite the bullet' and go into a lot of debt for PSU? What are your overall thoughts on both universities and programs?
Thank you for any responses!
Non Sequitur
Mar 27, 18 1:57 pm
B.Arch > BAS+M.Arch
But, the real kicker is cost. Take the cheapest option as no architecture degree is worth $100k+ of debt. Just know that you're not licensed simply because you stuck around for the lenght of the program. The real work starts after graduation where you start accumulating hours for exams. Licensing is typically 5y following graduation with some completing it around 3y.
zmills55
Mar 27, 18 2:26 pm
Why is a B.Arch better than an BS Arch+M.Arch? I know that a B.Arch is more 'direct' in its approach, but is there a specific aspect of B.Arch programs that make them generally better?
Non Sequitur
Mar 27, 18 3:03 pm
A BS is more-or-less a general arts degree that's not good enough to be accredited. I can't imagine a M.Arch option only taking one year thou since 2 or 3 is typical. In the end, you're responsible for taking the most out of your program and the BS route is far easier than B.Arch. Consider what courses / electives are available and visit both schools during their open houses.... and for fuck's sake, don't take out a mortgage for this.
betonbrut
Mar 27, 18 2:13 pm
I agree with Non Sequitur... Limit your debt to the greatest degree possible. Architecture is a rewarding field, but typically doesn't pay well, especially in the first 10 years.
Read up on the requirements in the state you want to be licensed in. Either degree path you describe above will be sufficient. NCARB will quickly become a bookmarked website...
Best of luck!
thatsthat
Mar 27, 18 3:00 pm
This is a tough choice. You really want to avoid all possible debt, especially for your undergrad. In general, you'll have more options after your bachelors if you aren't tied down with a ton of debt. If you're going to be getting that good of a deal for a BS Arch, you'll be able to get a good starting position, save up some money, then go for an MArch when you're ready. You can choose to go to a different school for MArch when if you want or continue on at Kent State after you're done. (A lot of BSArch grads like to switch it up for the grad program to get a different perspective, gain some more elite connections, a chance to live in a bigger city, and add another reputable name on their CV.) BArchs are typically only 5 years, but much more intense/difficult than a BSArch program.
It may help you to look at the degree plans for each of these programs and compare side-by-side. Look at the number of studio courses, materials, structures, and systems courses required. If you haven't already, go visit both schools and see if you like each place.
Volunteer
Mar 27, 18 4:34 pm
Both state schools seem to have about the same enrollment and are located in pleasant small towns. I just don't see any 'prestige' for Penn State over Kent State, certainly not $115,000 worth. Both schools have engineering departments should you elect to change your major.
As an aside, I advised the son of an old friend to major in Civil Engineering. He did so at the University of Akron several years ago and is now making close to $100,000 and, more importantly, loves his job. I don't know if he could have done any better if he graduated from an 'Ivy' school, never mind another state school.
My advice: go to Kent State, save money, enjoy your college experience, and be open to everything.
zmills55
Mar 28, 18 11:32 am
I think that's what I'll do... the only concerns I have are that Kent is more "open admissions" so it's not too hard to get into the arch program there. Do you think that will be a problem since the student body might not be as focused/interested in architecture as other more selective programs' students are? Also, the university average as a whole has significantly lower SAT and GPA scores than I have. I know this all sounds kinda pompous, but do you think that would yield a problem as well?
Volunteer
Mar 28, 18 2:32 pm
I did not see your reply until now. If you have significantly higher scores than your classmates and the class lessons come easier to you, you may be able to help your classmates. Nothing reinforces the learning of a subject like teaching it to others - they benefit and so do you.
Marc Miller
Mar 27, 18 10:47 pm
I'd be glad to tell you who to contact to schedule a tour at PSU if you haven't already done that- but money will always be an issue.
zmills55
Mar 28, 18 11:25 am
Actually I visited PSU and Stuckeman (their arch. building) a few days ago because it was Accepted Students Day. The studio and student body were both fantastic, but everyone I talked to said they'll be having some kind of debt. I even talked to an advisor or secretary in the arch building and she went to Penn State and still had over $20K in debt, despite going to PSU a long time ago.
Volunteer
Mar 28, 18 8:12 am
$115,000 at 4.5% for 20 years translates into a $727 monthly payment. The total repaid with interest is $174,611.
Penn State is not too generous with their In-state students either charging about $18,000 a year. Other state schools with better reputations (like Georgia Tech) seem to be holding in-state tuition at around $12,000 a year. Why the difference?
zmills55
Mar 28, 18 11:20 am
I'm pretty sure it's because PA as a state doesn't generate as much revenue as other states (Like how FL or CA can get a bunch of money through all the tourists that they bring in) and it's also because there's less state spending on public state schools in PA. Other PA state schools like Pitt or Temple are also rather expensive in comparison to other states.
Volunteer
Mar 28, 18 11:42 am
I don't think Ohio brings in a lot of money from tourists. Ohio State's in-state tuition is $10,000 a year.
Marc Miller
Mar 28, 18 12:08 pm
It's more complex than revenue. It's also impacted by how public education is (or is not) valued, along with the system structure which is similar to Ohio.
kjdt
Mar 28, 18 1:01 pm
I've worked with lots of grads of both schools over the years. Both tend to crank out a lot of people who end up in solid production roles in firms. Of course there are exceptions, but for the most part neither is thought of by most as a school that produces many great design minds, and neither seems to produce a lot of entrepreneurs. That's fine as long as you know what you're getting. A difference I've seen between the two is that the Kent State people seem to mostly have goals of being production people who eventually become PMs or CA field people, while the Penn State people often seem disillusioned by ending up in those roles. Most firms need more nuts-and-bolts production people and managers than big-idea schematic designers. One of the most recently let-go person in my firm was a Penn State grad who had a reputation for wanting to pick and choose the tasks he would and wouldn't do - kind of a diva personality but without the great design ability to make that sufferable. If I were you I'd talk to a large swath of current and former students, see where the latter have ended up, and see how happy they are about it.
zmills55
Mar 28, 18 1:33 pm
I definitely agree with you in terms of their "business" and "production" type of mentalities at both schools... the design minded people seem to come out of places like Cornell or the Cooper Union and stuff like that.
zmills55
Mar 28, 18 1:34 pm
Also, I know that a PM is project manager, but what's a CA?
a
kjdt
Mar 28, 18 2:43 pm
CA is "contract administration". In some larger, production-oriented firms, there are people whose role is primarily field-based CA - these are usually people with 15-20 years' experience or more, and often with some construction experience, in addition to experience as a PM. In smaller firms all of the CA work may be part of the PM's scope.
Volunteer
Mar 28, 18 1:16 pm
Is there really any difference between a degree from Ohio State and a degree from Penn State? US News ranks OS at #54 and PS at #52 in their 'national universities' ratings.
zmills55
Mar 28, 18 1:27 pm
Well I know that the OSU program is like Kent -- a BS/MArch combo. In fact, no Ohio school has a B.Arch program I believe. The big Ohio arch. schools - Kent, OSU, and UCincy - are all BS programs.
kidomega
Mar 28, 18 1:42 pm
I'd usually say go for the more prestigious school but seeing the numbers you've rolled out, Kent State is a better choice. If you can do BS/MArch combo cheaply, do it. Yes, school reputation matters or can be a factor, but it's what you do and be able to produce in that school that will have more resonance. Graduate with killer grades/GPA and an outstanding portfolio and let that aid you in getting a good job or into a good grad school program (if you wish to go for a specialization after your MArch).
Francis Gössage
Apr 2, 18 10:12 am
I was in in a similar position +10 years ago. My aspirations were more design focused but Kent really does prepare students well for the ARE and the technical aspects of the profession. If you want more specialization post graduation you could always explore a more focused MArch program.
zmills55
Apr 5, 18 4:32 pm
I think I'll probably follow that path -- I'll go to Kent for at least undergrad and reassess after those 4 years. Thank you for your response!
r.a.wolf
Apr 2, 18 2:05 pm
I actually followed the exact degree path you described at Kent State CAED, earning my B.S. in Arch in 2006 and my M. Arch in 2007, and originally chose, like you, based on the cost and financial aid package. I am not able to speak to Penn State's program, but I can offer an idea of what my career trajectory has been with the B.S. + M.Arch as my foundation, and where some of my former classmate's trajectories have taken them. I've been working in the industry since graduation, licensed for 5 years - and yes, I'm more of a technical project architect. By that I mean that I don't drive the design aesthetic, but I take those early design concept renderings and figure out how they're going to become an reality. This includes, but isn't limited to, selecting materials and finishes that will provide the right appearance and durability, making sure it's compliant with building codes, working out floor plans, finding that balance between the vision and the project budget, finding that balance between the vision and the necessary building systems. Most of your architects will fall in this category, and honestly, I love being in this position because I am able to have a huge impact on each project, and I do a lot of problem solving. A lot of the time, my daily activities resemble brain teasers and logic puzzles (which I love).
It did take me a while to figure out that is where I wanted to be as an architect - when I was at KSU, I gravitated towards professors that were more design oriented. For example, in a third year studio, we started a project by doing a dérive (Google it) in Cleveland's Ohio City neighborhood and transition that into designing a yoga studio co-located with an urban fish hatchery. But we also had professors that took a more pragmatic approach to design studios - in once of my fourth year studios, I spent just as much time thinking about HVAC and plumbing system layouts as I did the form of the building. When I started working is when I discovered the areas that truly excited me about our profession.
The B.S. + M.Arch structure also provides flexibility for you when looking at grad school. At the end of 4 years, you have to make a choice - stay at KSU for their M.Arch (which I did), or apply to other M.Arch programs (which several of my classmates did). If you chose KSU, you can do the M.Arch on the main campus, or at the Cleveland Urban Design Collaborative (CUDC). I chose the CUDC location. I have former classmates that chose to do their grad work elsewhere, including Harvard and Univ. of Cincinnati. I also know someone, that after the first two years at KSU, decided they wanted something more design intensive than KSU could offer at the time and transferred to Cooper Union.
Many of my classmates who completed both the B.S. and M.Arch at KSU are Project Architects or Project Managers, but I have a classmate who followed the same degree path as I did, but started his own firm in NYC (http://kylemayarchitect.com/). One of the founding partners of WSDIA (https://wsdia.com/) is also a KSU grad. Pick any firm in northeast Ohio (I'm here: http://rlba.com/), and you'll find KSU grads in various positions from project architects, designers, project managers, and even business development/marketing for those firms. There are also KSU grad's working at top firms in other markets (https://bcj.com/ and http://www.nadaaa.com/, for example).
KSU CAED offered me many opportunities to become the architect I am today; though, I think it's safe to say that no matter what architecture program you choose, your time there will be what you make of it. I wish you the best in selecting an architecture program - as an alumna, I'm rooting for KSU, but Penn State would be great too. I'm really just excited you're going into architecture - it's awesome!
zmills55
Apr 5, 18 4:39 pm
Thank you so much for your response! I think I will go to Kent, at least for undergrad, and then see where I would want to go from there. Kent's faculty and new facility are very impressive and the programs they offer seem great as well! The only concern I had with Kent is that their arch. program is fairly open in terms of admission, so do you think that would make an impact for students who are already driven and learning about architecture? For instance, do you think such large class sizes with such varying levels of architectural background could be a bad thing?
r.a.wolf
Apr 17, 18 1:16 pm
I think a more open admission is actually better because you get into the best part of an architecture curriculum (studio) right away, and the class ends up "self-weeding." Architecture studio is intense no matter what school you choose. Having a studio class as a freshman puts you right into situations that require design thinking and problem solving - those who don't love that, change majors. It's not uncommon for an incoming freshman class to decrease by half after the first semester. Looking back, those students who entered the program already interested in architecture and design were recognized quickly because that passion showed through their projects. Those of us who were not quite as knowledgeable about architecture coming in (me and my now husband) either fell in love with it (me) or found it too subjective and left (my husband who is now an engineer).
c17ew
Apr 3, 18 7:28 pm
Hello,
As a student who completed the Kent State Bachelor of Science degree in Architecture (2016), I highly recommend the program. In my opinion, it is extremely underrated for the quality of education and level of expertise achieved upon graduation, especially for the amount you are paying (great financial package in comparison to most schools). The program's focus combines design and technical characteristics that are both important for maintaining creativity and real-world skills needed for obtaining a job after graduation. There are several classes dedicated to learning software such as Revit, 3ds Max, etc. that are largely implemented in the workforce. From what I have heard of Penn State and other design-focused institutions, however, students are not taught much of Revit and are left ill-prepared for the job market. There is also a strong focus on design that I felt went hand-in-hand with the technical skills being obtained throughout the course of the program, with strong model-making, drawing, design-thinking and artistic sensibilities implemented.
The faculty is also extremely talented, insightful, and knowledgeable. They genuinely care about their students and make themselves available to assist with any issues or questions students may have. Having gone on to achieve an MArch degree at another institution, I can say that not all schools have a faculty such as Kent's that are so easy-going, caring and insightful. It makes a difference.
I also feel that having both a Bachelor of Science and a Master of Architecture on a resume, in contrast to just a Bachelor of Architecture, gives someone an advantage in the workforce even though the two paths are considered equal. I am currently applying for entry-level architecture jobs and I feel that it has worked out well in my favor throughout the process.
On your note about debt... Thinking about debt at the start of a program is much different than thinking about it upon graduation. Make sure you weigh it out seriously because things add up. Kent State can offer you an amazing education for a much lower cost. If you are worried about obtaining a prestigious name on your resume, you can maybe think of saving money for a Bachelor of Science at Kent, and going for another more prestigious school to acquire a Master of Architecture degree. That is what I did and I have been happy with my decision.
Let me know if you have any additional questions. I hope I have helped in your decision process. No matter what decision you make, it all works out!
Marc Miller
Apr 3, 18 7:37 pm
“From what I have heard of Penn State and other design-focused institutions, however, students are not taught much of Revit...”
I can safely say that is a false assumption at Penn State.
zmills55
Apr 5, 18 4:50 pm
Thank you so much for your advice! In your experience at Kent, did you notice many of your peers opting to stay in the Cleveland/Akron area to practice, or did many of them attempt to go elsewhere and work?
c17ew
Apr 5, 18 5:23 pm
You’re welcome! So many students stayed for the MArch at Kent and I think most of them are currently practicing in Cleveland and Columbus, though some also went to practice in Pittsburgh. In addition, there are some who went on to get their Masters at UPenn, Temple, Clemson and Pratt. I am currently in the Albany, NY area and plan to practice somewhere on the east coast, whether that’s Albany, New York City, Boston, or Washington DC.
Hi all,
I am a current high school senior looking to become a licensed architect in the future, so I know that I'll need to earn a professional degree in order to be on the path toward licensure. This past fall, I applied to a number of architecture programs in hopes that I'd receive some sort of scholarship from some schools. But unfortunately, most schools -- generally the more 'elite' schools -- did not offer much scholarship, so I have taken them off my list. Virtually, my choice is now between two schools: Kent State in Kent, OH, and Penn State in State College, PA. Most online rankings of each architecture program and each university as a whole puts Penn State on top. Therefore, my decision should theoretically be a no-brainer.
But, here's where it gets tricky: Penn State offers a 5-year B.Arch program, meaning I could be licensed and ready to practice soon after graduation. Also, Penn State has a great alumni network, especially in PA (I'd be paying in-state tuition for PSU, too). On the other hand, Kent State has a 4 year B.S. in architecture program, and then a 1 year M.Arch program. So, at Kent State, I could also be licensed and ready to work after 5 years, but I'd have TWO degrees (bachelors and masters) instead of just one.
Another thing about Kent State is that due to a family tuition-waving benefit, we'd only have to pay for room and board rates, which is about $10K a year. Assuming I stay at Kent for 5 years, my family and I would only have to pay roughly $50K total. At Penn State, however, the total cost per year is roughly $33K, so a 5 year education there would be $165K. So we'd be saving $115K if I were to go to Kent State instead of Penn State.
But my question is -- is it worth it? I mean, the Penn State B.Arch is certainly more appealing with its international student body, great connections, and solid faculty, but is it worth it to go to a school that is ranked a good amount lower than the other one, even if we're saving a large amount of money? Or is it more worth it to 'bite the bullet' and go into a lot of debt for PSU? What are your overall thoughts on both universities and programs?
Thank you for any responses!
B.Arch > BAS+M.Arch
But, the real kicker is cost. Take the cheapest option as no architecture degree is worth $100k+ of debt. Just know that you're not licensed simply because you stuck around for the lenght of the program. The real work starts after graduation where you start accumulating hours for exams. Licensing is typically 5y following graduation with some completing it around 3y.
Why is a B.Arch better than an BS Arch+M.Arch? I know that a B.Arch is more 'direct' in its approach, but is there a specific aspect of B.Arch programs that make them generally better?
A BS is more-or-less a general arts degree that's not good enough to be accredited. I can't imagine a M.Arch option only taking one year thou since 2 or 3 is typical. In the end, you're responsible for taking the most out of your program and the BS route is far easier than B.Arch. Consider what courses / electives are available and visit both schools during their open houses.... and for fuck's sake, don't take out a mortgage for this.
I agree with Non Sequitur... Limit your debt to the greatest degree possible. Architecture is a rewarding field, but typically doesn't pay well, especially in the first 10 years.
Read up on the requirements in the state you want to be licensed in. Either degree path you describe above will be sufficient. NCARB will quickly become a bookmarked website...
Best of luck!
This is a tough choice. You really want to avoid all possible debt, especially for your undergrad. In general, you'll have more options after your bachelors if you aren't tied down with a ton of debt. If you're going to be getting that good of a deal for a BS Arch, you'll be able to get a good starting position, save up some money, then go for an MArch when you're ready. You can choose to go to a different school for MArch when if you want or continue on at Kent State after you're done. (A lot of BSArch grads like to switch it up for the grad program to get a different perspective, gain some more elite connections, a chance to live in a bigger city, and add another reputable name on their CV.) BArchs are typically only 5 years, but much more intense/difficult than a BSArch program.
It may help you to look at the degree plans for each of these programs and compare side-by-side. Look at the number of studio courses, materials, structures, and systems courses required. If you haven't already, go visit both schools and see if you like each place.
Both state schools seem to have about the same enrollment and are located in pleasant small towns. I just don't see any 'prestige' for Penn State over Kent State, certainly not $115,000 worth. Both schools have engineering departments should you elect to change your major.
As an aside, I advised the son of an old friend to major in Civil Engineering. He did so at the University of Akron several years ago and is now making close to $100,000 and, more importantly, loves his job. I don't know if he could have done any better if he graduated from an 'Ivy' school, never mind another state school.
My advice: go to Kent State, save money, enjoy your college experience, and be open to everything.
I think that's what I'll do... the only concerns I have are that Kent is more "open admissions" so it's not too hard to get into the arch program there. Do you think that will be a problem since the student body might not be as focused/interested in architecture as other more selective programs' students are? Also, the university average as a whole has significantly lower SAT and GPA scores than I have. I know this all sounds kinda pompous, but do you think that would yield a problem as well?
I did not see your reply until now. If you have significantly higher scores than your classmates and the class lessons come easier to you, you may be able to help your classmates. Nothing reinforces the learning of a subject like teaching it to others - they benefit and so do you.
I'd be glad to tell you who to contact to schedule a tour at PSU if you haven't already done that- but money will always be an issue.
Actually I visited PSU and Stuckeman (their arch. building) a few days ago because it was Accepted Students Day. The studio and student body were both fantastic, but everyone I talked to said they'll be having some kind of debt. I even talked to an advisor or secretary in the arch building and she went to Penn State and still had over $20K in debt, despite going to PSU a long time ago.
$115,000 at 4.5% for 20 years translates into a $727 monthly payment. The total repaid with interest is $174,611.
Penn State is not too generous with their In-state students either charging about $18,000 a year. Other state schools with better reputations (like Georgia Tech) seem to be holding in-state tuition at around $12,000 a year. Why the difference?
I'm pretty sure it's because PA as a state doesn't generate as much revenue as other states (Like how FL or CA can get a bunch of money through all the tourists that they bring in) and it's also because there's less state spending on public state schools in PA. Other PA state schools like Pitt or Temple are also rather expensive in comparison to other states.
I don't think Ohio brings in a lot of money from tourists. Ohio State's in-state tuition is $10,000 a year.
It's more complex than revenue. It's also impacted by how public education is (or is not) valued, along with the system structure which is similar to Ohio.
I've worked with lots of grads of both schools over the years. Both tend to crank out a lot of people who end up in solid production roles in firms. Of course there are exceptions, but for the most part neither is thought of by most as a school that produces many great design minds, and neither seems to produce a lot of entrepreneurs. That's fine as long as you know what you're getting. A difference I've seen between the two is that the Kent State people seem to mostly have goals of being production people who eventually become PMs or CA field people, while the Penn State people often seem disillusioned by ending up in those roles. Most firms need more nuts-and-bolts production people and managers than big-idea schematic designers. One of the most recently let-go person in my firm was a Penn State grad who had a reputation for wanting to pick and choose the tasks he would and wouldn't do - kind of a diva personality but without the great design ability to make that sufferable. If I were you I'd talk to a large swath of current and former students, see where the latter have ended up, and see how happy they are about it.
I definitely agree with you in terms of their "business" and "production" type of mentalities at both schools... the design minded people seem to come out of places like Cornell or the Cooper Union and stuff like that.
Also, I know that a PM is project manager, but what's a CA? a
CA is "contract administration". In some larger, production-oriented firms, there are people whose role is primarily field-based CA - these are usually people with 15-20 years' experience or more, and often with some construction experience, in addition to experience as a PM. In smaller firms all of the CA work may be part of the PM's scope.
Is there really any difference between a degree from Ohio State and a degree from Penn State? US News ranks OS at #54 and PS at #52 in their 'national universities' ratings.
Well I know that the OSU program is like Kent -- a BS/MArch combo. In fact, no Ohio school has a B.Arch program I believe. The big Ohio arch. schools - Kent, OSU, and UCincy - are all BS programs.
I'd usually say go for the more prestigious school but seeing the numbers you've rolled out, Kent State is a better choice. If you can do BS/MArch combo cheaply, do it. Yes, school reputation matters or can be a factor, but it's what you do and be able to produce in that school that will have more resonance. Graduate with killer grades/GPA and an outstanding portfolio and let that aid you in getting a good job or into a good grad school program (if you wish to go for a specialization after your MArch).
I was in in a similar position +10 years ago. My aspirations were more design focused but Kent really does prepare students well for the ARE and the technical aspects of the profession. If you want more specialization post graduation you could always explore a more focused MArch program.
I think I'll probably follow that path -- I'll go to Kent for at least undergrad and reassess after those 4 years. Thank you for your response!
I actually followed the exact degree path you described at Kent State CAED, earning my B.S. in Arch in 2006 and my M. Arch in 2007, and originally chose, like you, based on the cost and financial aid package. I am not able to speak to Penn State's program, but I can offer an idea of what my career trajectory has been with the B.S. + M.Arch as my foundation, and where some of my former classmate's trajectories have taken them. I've been working in the industry since graduation, licensed for 5 years - and yes, I'm more of a technical project architect. By that I mean that I don't drive the design aesthetic, but I take those early design concept renderings and figure out how they're going to become an reality. This includes, but isn't limited to, selecting materials and finishes that will provide the right appearance and durability, making sure it's compliant with building codes, working out floor plans, finding that balance between the vision and the project budget, finding that balance between the vision and the necessary building systems. Most of your architects will fall in this category, and honestly, I love being in this position because I am able to have a huge impact on each project, and I do a lot of problem solving. A lot of the time, my daily activities resemble brain teasers and logic puzzles (which I love).
It did take me a while to figure out that is where I wanted to be as an architect - when I was at KSU, I gravitated towards professors that were more design oriented. For example, in a third year studio, we started a project by doing a dérive (Google it) in Cleveland's Ohio City neighborhood and transition that into designing a yoga studio co-located with an urban fish hatchery. But we also had professors that took a more pragmatic approach to design studios - in once of my fourth year studios, I spent just as much time thinking about HVAC and plumbing system layouts as I did the form of the building. When I started working is when I discovered the areas that truly excited me about our profession.
The B.S. + M.Arch structure also provides flexibility for you when looking at grad school. At the end of 4 years, you have to make a choice - stay at KSU for their M.Arch (which I did), or apply to other M.Arch programs (which several of my classmates did). If you chose KSU, you can do the M.Arch on the main campus, or at the Cleveland Urban Design Collaborative (CUDC). I chose the CUDC location. I have former classmates that chose to do their grad work elsewhere, including Harvard and Univ. of Cincinnati. I also know someone, that after the first two years at KSU, decided they wanted something more design intensive than KSU could offer at the time and transferred to Cooper Union.
Many of my classmates who completed both the B.S. and M.Arch at KSU are Project Architects or Project Managers, but I have a classmate who followed the same degree path as I did, but started his own firm in NYC (http://kylemayarchitect.com/). One of the founding partners of WSDIA (https://wsdia.com/) is also a KSU grad. Pick any firm in northeast Ohio (I'm here: http://rlba.com/), and you'll find KSU grads in various positions from project architects, designers, project managers, and even business development/marketing for those firms. There are also KSU grad's working at top firms in other markets (https://bcj.com/ and http://www.nadaaa.com/, for example).
KSU CAED offered me many opportunities to become the architect I am today; though, I think it's safe to say that no matter what architecture program you choose, your time there will be what you make of it. I wish you the best in selecting an architecture program - as an alumna, I'm rooting for KSU, but Penn State would be great too. I'm really just excited you're going into architecture - it's awesome!
Thank you so much for your response! I think I will go to Kent, at least for undergrad, and then see where I would want to go from there. Kent's faculty and new facility are very impressive and the programs they offer seem great as well! The only concern I had with Kent is that their arch. program is fairly open in terms of admission, so do you think that would make an impact for students who are already driven and learning about architecture? For instance, do you think such large class sizes with such varying levels of architectural background could be a bad thing?
I think a more open admission is actually better because you get into the best part of an architecture curriculum (studio) right away, and the class ends up "self-weeding." Architecture studio is intense no matter what school you choose. Having a studio class as a freshman puts you right into situations that require design thinking and problem solving - those who don't love that, change majors. It's not uncommon for an incoming freshman class to decrease by half after the first semester. Looking back, those students who entered the program already interested in architecture and design were recognized quickly because that passion showed through their projects. Those of us who were not quite as knowledgeable about architecture coming in (me and my now husband) either fell in love with it (me) or found it too subjective and left (my husband who is now an engineer).
Hello,
As a student who completed the Kent State Bachelor of Science degree in Architecture (2016), I highly recommend the program. In my opinion, it is extremely underrated for the quality of education and level of expertise achieved upon graduation, especially for the amount you are paying (great financial package in comparison to most schools). The program's focus combines design and technical characteristics that are both important for maintaining creativity and real-world skills needed for obtaining a job after graduation. There are several classes dedicated to learning software such as Revit, 3ds Max, etc. that are largely implemented in the workforce. From what I have heard of Penn State and other design-focused institutions, however, students are not taught much of Revit and are left ill-prepared for the job market. There is also a strong focus on design that I felt went hand-in-hand with the technical skills being obtained throughout the course of the program, with strong model-making, drawing, design-thinking and artistic sensibilities implemented.
The faculty is also extremely talented, insightful, and knowledgeable. They genuinely care about their students and make themselves available to assist with any issues or questions students may have. Having gone on to achieve an MArch degree at another institution, I can say that not all schools have a faculty such as Kent's that are so easy-going, caring and insightful. It makes a difference.
I also feel that having both a Bachelor of Science and a Master of Architecture on a resume, in contrast to just a Bachelor of Architecture, gives someone an advantage in the workforce even though the two paths are considered equal. I am currently applying for entry-level architecture jobs and I feel that it has worked out well in my favor throughout the process.
On your note about debt... Thinking about debt at the start of a program is much different than thinking about it upon graduation. Make sure you weigh it out seriously because things add up. Kent State can offer you an amazing education for a much lower cost. If you are worried about obtaining a prestigious name on your resume, you can maybe think of saving money for a Bachelor of Science at Kent, and going for another more prestigious school to acquire a Master of Architecture degree. That is what I did and I have been happy with my decision.
Let me know if you have any additional questions. I hope I have helped in your decision process. No matter what decision you make, it all works out!
“From what I have heard of Penn State and other design-focused institutions, however, students are not taught much of Revit...”
I can safely say that is a false assumption at Penn State.
Thank you so much for your advice! In your experience at Kent, did you notice many of your peers opting to stay in the Cleveland/Akron area to practice, or did many of them attempt to go elsewhere and work?
You’re welcome! So many students stayed for the MArch at Kent and I think most of them are currently practicing in Cleveland and Columbus, though some also went to practice in Pittsburgh. In addition, there are some who went on to get their Masters at UPenn, Temple, Clemson and Pratt. I am currently in the Albany, NY area and plan to practice somewhere on the east coast, whether that’s Albany, New York City, Boston, or Washington DC.