I got licensed a year ago and have been thinking about freelancing/moonlighting for a while now. I have a potential client who needs someone to finish up a basic permit set for an interior office renovation. It would include RCPs and electrical plans -- this is something I've done countless times at a previous job and would be relatively easy for me to start with. However, the drawings would not be stamped by me as the project is out of state. I had planned on buying liability insurance under an LLC but didn't get there before being approached by this client.
I'm a little nervous to accept this job without having any insurance because I feel that I am opening myself up to liability. Or maybe I'm blowing this out of proportion because someone else will be stamping these drawings.
Thoughts?
Peter Normand
Jan 31, 18 12:35 pm
Can you get licensed in the state where your client is located?
You should consider forming and LLC with your partner/local architect and have the insurance specifically list both of you as part of the LLC so that you are covered if something goes wrong and the litigation doesn't involve your personal property. Or you can work for this other architect as an employee.
Look into reciprocal registration and just cutting out the middle guy who will take a portion of your fee.
Over and OUT
Peter N
thisisnotmyname
Jan 31, 18 2:06 pm
You don't need to have an LLC to have insurance. No LLC means just means you are a sole proprietor. Insurers sell policies to sole proprietors.
Just make sure your state considers a sole proprietorship to be an acceptable business structure for an architect.
You should incorporate as soon as you can, though. There are many advantages to being incorporated.
Lee Robert
Jan 31, 18 2:22 pm
You can get insurance very quickly as a sole proprietor.
Don't let that stop you.
Volunteer
Jan 31, 18 6:57 pm
In a serious event you will be sued and the firm you work for now will also be sued (they may or may not get dropped out as the lawsuit proceeds). Best thing is to have your firm do the job after your firm's insurance agent and possibly lawyer determines what hoops have to be jumped through.
kjdt
Feb 1, 18 11:43 am
If it's a project type that requires an architect in that state, your insurance carrier will refuse to cover any claims that arise on this project anyway, regardless of who stamps it, because you're practicing unlawfully by providing architectural services without a license for that state.
thisisnotmyname
Feb 1, 18 12:07 pm
I think the OP should make sure that his contract with the client spells out that he is only doing a conceptual design and that the client will secure the services of an architect in the project location state to execute the design as architect of record. This is done very often in retail store design. The architect stamping the project ends up with final responsibility for everything and accompanying potential liability.
My concern would be the client skipping hiring a local architect and using the OP's drawings on site in a state were the OP is not licensed. That would put the OP in the position of practicing unlawfully.
Volunteer
Feb 1, 18 12:19 pm
Many firms have prohibitions against their employees working in architecture on their on time for pay because they do not want to be drawn into a lawsuit against their employee when things go south, not because they are afraid of the competition. It is a valid concern.
The OP should be upfront with his supervisor and just get the firm he works for to do the work - after they check with the insurance company. And none of this 'I'll do it but someone else will sign it off' nonsense.
kjdt
Feb 1, 18 2:03 pm
"Moonlighting like that" is not necessarily "technically illegal". It depends on the state. There's no requirement in my state that a sole proprietorship be registered with anybody at all. Here if you want to use a name for your business other than your own name, then you have to register that as a trade name. That fee is under $100 and has to be renewed every 5 years. If you're doing business under your own name there's no requirement to register anything. I pay $10 every 2 years to my local zoning department for a conditional use permit that allows me to operate my business in a conditional use zone. There are no local county or city requirements for me to register my business or pay any other fees. So basically anybody who wants to moonlight can moonlight.
kjdt
Feb 1, 18 2:13 pm
Also the criteria here for even requiring that $10 permit are whether you're doing any of: have signage, generate traffic beyond a residential level of trips per day, have more than 2 parking spaces, creating noise, or have employees. If you're doing none of those things, you don't need a zoning permit at all. If I were a moonlighter, working alone from home, using my own name, I'd be operating completely legally, permit- and fee-free in my state, county, and city.
kjdt
Feb 1, 18 3:17 pm
It just seems that you're jumping to a lot of conclusions. The OP didn't say anything about where he's doing this work. His question is just about insurance. For all you know he does all his work on his own personal computer, while sitting at Starbucks, or from some drop-in co-working hub. Sheesh, even if he's working from an unzoned apartment, unless he starts putting that out there as his business address nobody's ever going to know or care. If he starts advertising his business he can use a PO box. It's just a non-issue. You seem obsessed with paying fees and licenses for the sake of the sense of legitimacy they give you, when you're not even doing any real work. If you've got a viable business happening at your address then why do the results from the 2010 census show that you're living in a household of 4 adults with a combined total annual income of under $15k?
archinine
Feb 1, 18 1:37 pm
I always wonder why anyone, especially with a license themself, would accept work that someone else is 'stamping'. That's a cut of your fee and ultimately you have no control over the CA process or pretty much anything that happens post permit issuance. What's the point in doing the design work, getting your license, advertising your business and landing a client, only to not follow through to the end?
I'm with the others, do it right or don't bother. Most of the initial start up costs are one time only, and the recurring costs are generally staggered. Probably going to eat the entire fee from this first client, but afterward you can legally advertise your services, not work in fear of legal issues, and never have to deal with those startup costs again.
If you have push back from the client, perhaps give an explanation of the many legal implications with mixing up your work and this unknown 'stamper', and explain why the costs of having you follow through, conduct the site visit etc are ultimately cheaper than the known and unknown headaches + lawsuits that may ensue. You can offer to pay for your own reciprocity as well as a sort of discount/incentive to keep control of this project while getting the client to feel like they got something out of this compromise. And hey then you can advertise in yet another state!
Tread carefully and good luck
wurdan freo
Feb 1, 18 2:27 pm
maybe I'm reading this wrong but is your client the design firm that actually holds the contract with the real client in this other state? Are you just providing drafting services? If that's the case you don't need a license to do that and I would state in your contract that you are merely providing drafting services.
This is america and you can get sued for anything. Your call on the insurance.
archinine
Feb 1, 18 3:32 pm
Rick - unless the project is in Texas or California which require an additional test, it's a matter of sending in some paperwork for reciprocity. If the process is begun at the top of SD or even DD, by the time OP submits for CDs permit, the new license will be in hand.
Bloopox
Feb 1, 18 4:46 pm
There are no boards that regularly meet only every 3 months. There are some that meet every 2 months, and some that don't meet in August - so that can result in one 3-month gap per year.
For most states it's irrelevant because they process reciprocity applications administratively and don't need to wait to vote on it at a board meeting. I got reciprocity in one such state in a matter of 2 days after NCARB transmitted my record.
The states that do insist on voting on reciprocity applications are more problematic because you have to get on the agenda and occassionally don't make it onto the soonest one after transmittal.
The NCARB transmittal itself used to be the biggest time suck - it regularly took them more than a month to just hit the Freakin Transmit button. But recently it's only taken about a week and half for me.
Bloopox
Feb 1, 18 5:12 pm
The OP said he just got licensed. Most likely he's not been investigated by a licensing board ever. Your experiences of having been investigated multiple times by architecture boards are far from the norm - so yes in your case any application might be held up for close scrutiny. The sum total of all the licensed architects investigated by or reported to architecture licensing boards nationwide in the last decade only adds up to about 1% of all the architects in the US. For the vast majority of us it's a non-issue. We've got nothing to check yes to.
I got licensed a year ago and have been thinking about freelancing/moonlighting for a while now. I have a potential client who needs someone to finish up a basic permit set for an interior office renovation. It would include RCPs and electrical plans -- this is something I've done countless times at a previous job and would be relatively easy for me to start with. However, the drawings would not be stamped by me as the project is out of state. I had planned on buying liability insurance under an LLC but didn't get there before being approached by this client.
I'm a little nervous to accept this job without having any insurance because I feel that I am opening myself up to liability. Or maybe I'm blowing this out of proportion because someone else will be stamping these drawings.
Thoughts?
Can you get licensed in the state where your client is located?
You should consider forming and LLC with your partner/local architect and have the insurance specifically list both of you as part of the LLC so that you are covered if something goes wrong and the litigation doesn't involve your personal property. Or you can work for this other architect as an employee.
Look into reciprocal registration and just cutting out the middle guy who will take a portion of your fee.
Over and OUT
Peter N
You don't need to have an LLC to have insurance. No LLC means just means you are a sole proprietor. Insurers sell policies to sole proprietors.
Just make sure your state considers a sole proprietorship to be an acceptable business structure for an architect.
You should incorporate as soon as you can, though. There are many advantages to being incorporated.
You can get insurance very quickly as a sole proprietor.
Don't let that stop you.
In a serious event you will be sued and the firm you work for now will also be sued (they may or may not get dropped out as the lawsuit proceeds). Best thing is to have your firm do the job after your firm's insurance agent and possibly lawyer determines what hoops have to be jumped through.
If it's a project type that requires an architect in that state, your insurance carrier will refuse to cover any claims that arise on this project anyway, regardless of who stamps it, because you're practicing unlawfully by providing architectural services without a license for that state.
I think the OP should make sure that his contract with the client spells out that he is only doing a conceptual design and that the client will secure the services of an architect in the project location state to execute the design as architect of record. This is done very often in retail store design. The architect stamping the project ends up with final responsibility for everything and accompanying potential liability.
My concern would be the client skipping hiring a local architect and using the OP's drawings on site in a state were the OP is not licensed. That would put the OP in the position of practicing unlawfully.
Many firms have prohibitions against their employees working in architecture on their on time for pay because they do not want to be drawn into a lawsuit against their employee when things go south, not because they are afraid of the competition. It is a valid concern.
The OP should be upfront with his supervisor and just get the firm he works for to do the work - after they check with the insurance company. And none of this 'I'll do it but someone else will sign it off' nonsense.
"Moonlighting like that" is not necessarily "technically illegal". It depends on the state. There's no requirement in my state that a sole proprietorship be registered with anybody at all. Here if you want to use a name for your business other than your own name, then you have to register that as a trade name. That fee is under $100 and has to be renewed every 5 years. If you're doing business under your own name there's no requirement to register anything. I pay $10 every 2 years to my local zoning department for a conditional use permit that allows me to operate my business in a conditional use zone. There are no local county or city requirements for me to register my business or pay any other fees. So basically anybody who wants to moonlight can moonlight.
Also the criteria here for even requiring that $10 permit are whether you're doing any of: have signage, generate traffic beyond a residential level of trips per day, have more than 2 parking spaces, creating noise, or have employees. If you're doing none of those things, you don't need a zoning permit at all. If I were a moonlighter, working alone from home, using my own name, I'd be operating completely legally, permit- and fee-free in my state, county, and city.
It just seems that you're jumping to a lot of conclusions. The OP didn't say anything about where he's doing this work. His question is just about insurance. For all you know he does all his work on his own personal computer, while sitting at Starbucks, or from some drop-in co-working hub. Sheesh, even if he's working from an unzoned apartment, unless he starts putting that out there as his business address nobody's ever going to know or care. If he starts advertising his business he can use a PO box. It's just a non-issue. You seem obsessed with paying fees and licenses for the sake of the sense of legitimacy they give you, when you're not even doing any real work. If you've got a viable business happening at your address then why do the results from the 2010 census show that you're living in a household of 4 adults with a combined total annual income of under $15k?
I always wonder why anyone, especially with a license themself, would accept work that someone else is 'stamping'. That's a cut of your fee and ultimately you have no control over the CA process or pretty much anything that happens post permit issuance. What's the point in doing the design work, getting your license, advertising your business and landing a client, only to not follow through to the end?
I'm with the others, do it right or don't bother. Most of the initial start up costs are one time only, and the recurring costs are generally staggered. Probably going to eat the entire fee from this first client, but afterward you can legally advertise your services, not work in fear of legal issues, and never have to deal with those startup costs again.
If you have push back from the client, perhaps give an explanation of the many legal implications with mixing up your work and this unknown 'stamper', and explain why the costs of having you follow through, conduct the site visit etc are ultimately cheaper than the known and unknown headaches + lawsuits that may ensue. You can offer to pay for your own reciprocity as well as a sort of discount/incentive to keep control of this project while getting the client to feel like they got something out of this compromise. And hey then you can advertise in yet another state!
Tread carefully and good luck
maybe I'm reading this wrong but is your client the design firm that actually holds the contract with the real client in this other state? Are you just providing drafting services? If that's the case you don't need a license to do that and I would state in your contract that you are merely providing drafting services.
This is america and you can get sued for anything. Your call on the insurance.
Rick - unless the project is in Texas or California which require an additional test, it's a matter of sending in some paperwork for reciprocity. If the process is begun at the top of SD or even DD, by the time OP submits for CDs permit, the new license will be in hand.
There are no boards that regularly meet only every 3 months. There are some that meet every 2 months, and some that don't meet in August - so that can result in one 3-month gap per year.
For most states it's irrelevant because they process reciprocity applications administratively and don't need to wait to vote on it at a board meeting. I got reciprocity in one such state in a matter of 2 days after NCARB transmitted my record.
The states that do insist on voting on reciprocity applications are more problematic because you have to get on the agenda and occassionally don't make it onto the soonest one after transmittal.
The NCARB transmittal itself used to be the biggest time suck - it regularly took them more than a month to just hit the Freakin Transmit button. But recently it's only taken about a week and half for me.
The OP said he just got licensed. Most likely he's not been investigated by a licensing board ever. Your experiences of having been investigated multiple times by architecture boards are far from the norm - so yes in your case any application might be held up for close scrutiny. The sum total of all the licensed architects investigated by or reported to architecture licensing boards nationwide in the last decade only adds up to about 1% of all the architects in the US. For the vast majority of us it's a non-issue. We've got nothing to check yes to.