Below are renderings of my kitchen island. The white is a quartz border that wraps around the island. On top it is 3" thick and I want it to look uniform. I was advised by a kitchen designer that the bottom should be thicker, like 3.5" in order for it to look even all the way around. The designer is adamant that this is an optical illusion when you look down and if it is 3" on the bottom it will look smaller. So it should be intentionally made bigger.
In her words "Take a look at the various compensations made in classical Greek architecture to make various things look Flat, Parallel, Straight, the Same Size, the Same Distance apart by using bulges, tapers various sizes and uneven spacing. They had it all figured out."
Kinda makes sense but I have no idea who I could ask for a second opinion on this. Based on my other thread I was sure the architects here would have an opinion. Should I make the bottom thicker by half an inch? The same size? Some other size?
Thanks!
Non Sequitur
Jan 25, 18 5:43 pm
Is there something wrongs with trusting the designer you’ve, hopefully, paid for their advice?
Or, is this the case where this person is brushing you off because you ask complicated design questions and expect answers, and their time, for free... hence asking random strangers online?
JLC-1
Jan 25, 18 6:13 pm
I would ask her/him why is it vertical on one end and not the other. Also, I would advice against using a white material at the floor level, but you will use it and will remember me after you have a party and people sit on those stools. Toe kicks exist for a reason, and they are usually 4" tall.
Marc Miller
Jan 25, 18 6:36 pm
In her words "Take a look at the various compensations made in classical Greek architecture to make various things look Flat, Parallel, Straight, the Same Size, the Same Distance apart by using bulges, tapers various sizes and uneven spacing. They had it all figured out."
True-
BUT the scale of distortion being referenced is a temple at a distance, not a counter you are 15' feet away. The easy way to test it would be to was a two strips of paper, 1 3" thick and the other 3." inches thick and tape it to your existing counter and ask if yourself if the distortion you see matters to you.
Wood Guy
Jan 25, 18 6:47 pm
I would make all of the cabinet bases 4" tall. Partly because I agree with your designer, and partly because any less becomes a toe-catcher when you're actually trying to cook. Plus 4" is standard.
Nice looking kitchen, BTW. I like the asymmetrical island design. Making flush-looking appliances truly flush is a PIA but it can be done.
SneakyPete
Jan 25, 18 7:03 pm
Entasis as a correction of optics is conjecture, not fact. Toe kicks being a standard height? That's a fact, but you can ignore it if you feel so inclined. Just send JLC a few beers every time you think about it.
Miles Jaffe
Jan 25, 18 7:05 pm
Ze plane! Ze plane!
Bloopox
Jan 25, 18 7:21 pm
The reference to Greek architecture doesn't really apply, for reasons others have noted. But your designer is correct anyway. An example that's more similar in scale and viewing distance is the matting of a photo or artwork in a picture frame: if you make the distance the same all the way around then the framed item will usually be perceived to be closer to the bottom of the frame (I say usually because in some cases this perception can be altered by the composition of the photo or art - but that's not an issue in your case as what's framed is a solid uniform color.) Usually you don't center the piece in the matte - you locate it so that the border at the bottom is about 15% wider than the border at top and sides - and then when it's hung on the wall it appears to be centered.
Oh and also: if you have a robovac it will get stuck unless the toe kick slightly exceeds 3.5 inches.
uscpsycho
Jan 26, 18 4:25 am
Thanks guys.
Let me ask this another way. Let's say the designer is wrong about the optical illusion. But if I made that bottom edge 3.5" anyway would the variation be noticeable? And if it is noticeable, would it look like a mistake or might it look intentional?
There is an unrelated reason (nothing to do with optical illusions) I would want to make the lower edge 3.5" instead of 3", so illusion or not, if it will look OK I want to do it that way.
My existing kitchen isn't a good test bed for testing with paper strips, as someone recommended, but I suppose I could just tape them to a wall and see how it looks.
Wood Guy
Jan 26, 18 8:58 am
IF your room is big enough that you can get several feet away from the cabinets, and it looks like it probably is, the difference of 1/2" will be noticeable to detail-minded architects and craftspeople. Most people would not notice or care either way.
Everything looks different in a 2-D elevation or even a 3-D rendering than it does in real life. Everything.
Non Sequitur
Jan 26, 18 9:01 am
I like how one will likely need a step stool to take anything out of the microwave.
Miles Jaffe
Jan 26, 18 11:04 am
I like the surface mounted doors and no overhang tops where everything that gets spilled goes straight into the cabinets. Brilliant. And somebody was (presumably) paid to do this shit.
Wilma Buttfit
Jan 26, 18 11:06 am
The lighting is nice though...
Miles Jaffe
Jan 26, 18 3:27 pm
The lighting is nice though...
LOL! I hadn't even noticed that.
uscpsycho, just out of curiosity - how much is the kitchen designer getting paid to 'design' this?
randomised
Jan 26, 18 3:45 pm
I'd make it all black so you wouldn't need Greek optical trickery...or all concrete top to bottom.
uscpsycho
Jan 26, 18 4:35 pm
Appreciate those who responded with serious answers! Not so much the snarky comments outside the scope of my question.
I got the feedback I was hoping for. Internet is a great thing, just gotta take the good with the bad.
mantaray
Jan 26, 18 5:17 pm
Like others I think the height looks fine but I'm more worried about having it flush to the cabinets (or even projecting out from them--it's hard to tell). You really DO need a toe kick at any functional cabinet space, otherwise you really do stub your toes and hurt your back trying to stand at the counter and worse yet, you will constantly take chips out of that thing with the vacuum.
uscpsycho
Jan 26, 18 5:51 pm
I appreciate everyone's concern about my toe kicks but I do have toe kicks everywhere there is counter space. There is no toe kick on the sides of the island or under the island overhang because they aren't needed there but there is a toe kick on the front (cooktop side) of the island.
Wood Guy
Jan 26, 18 6:22 pm
So what is your decision? Sorry for the snark--designers and architects have very thick skin, and assume others do (or should) as well.
Miles Jaffe
Jan 26, 18 9:01 pm
He liked the responses that confirmed his desire, not the ones that challenged its viability.
I'm enjoying the vision of uscpsycho stubbing his toe on the vacuum-cleaner scraped and dented flush base and spilling his coffee, which runs over the flush edge of the countertop and behind the doors into the cabinets, and hoping that he remembers me when when he's standing there looking at that stupid, expensive, shitty mess that could have easily been completely avoided.
But the vision doesn't end there - I see him trying to sell the place in frustration, having paid his designer a small fortune for a large disservice and spent ridiculous sums geeching it up with glass railings and such that all the potential buyers run away from after seeing that stupid kitchen, which forces him to completely re-renovate or sell at a big loss just to get the hell out his self-created nightmare.
uscpsycho
Jan 27, 18 5:04 am
Hey Miles, let me guess. You don't get much work because you don't take direction well from bosses or clients. You have a bad attitude because you're a failure at your job so you go online to try to stir the pot. Right?
Why else would you have so much free time to tender advice which was not asked for and quite literally, in my previous post, it was made clear unrelated feedback was unwanted. I'm glad you've got the time and motivation to proffer advice to people who tell you they don't want it.
And not only that, you go on to see into the future as well! Like some sort of mystical soothsayer who moonlights, badly, as an architect. Let me look into your future: I see food stamps, welfare, dirty sleeping bags in public parks and cardboard boxes on sidewalks. I'm enjoying that vision!
Just so you know, all your comments are on super budget 3D renderings I hired someone in a foreign country from Fiverr to make for $50. They are not totally to scale and there was zero direction or attention given to the details, as you should have realized by the lack of any lights. This is not intended to be a realistic representation of every detail. Just look at the fridge and freezer handles which are ridiculously high. But I'll be sure to pass your feedback along to the chick on Fiverr who made these, I don't even know her real name.
Furthermore, that "flush base" is made out of quartz. So unless I get a vacuum cleaner made out of titanium or carbon fiber it is quite unlikely it's ever going to get dented. If anyone rams a vacuum cleaner into that quartz the vacuum is going to come out on the losing end. But you so smart! You know everything!
It's also pretty obvious that the counter and the base are the same material. What do you think my counters are made out of, MDF? You aren't big on detail, are you...
Not only that, but you either do not listen to the English words written on this forum or you have very poor reading comprehension. I said there is a toe kick on the working side of the island. A large percentage of kitchen islands -- especially modern ones -- do not have a toe kick all around as it is not needed on four sides. Waterfall edges are quite common on islands and they have no toe kick. This is done every day and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Suggesting that any able-bodied person is going to stub their toe on the side of a kitchen island is silly. If anyone has that problem I would advise them to steer clear of walls.
I feel sorry for anyone who engages you in the design of a kitchen. It might look like a fun house when it's done.
In the future I suggest you stay in your lane and not pull things out of your butt because you have nothing better to do.
My skin is plenty thick but Miles crossed way over the line from snark to internet troll. I have a strong policy against feeding trolls which I just violated but I wanted to point out the folly of his posts to everyone because it's kind of funny. Mr smartypants isn't so smart! In any case, I will not respond to any more messages from Miles, I've wasted enough of my time (and your time if you're reading this) on him so I'm going to ignore him from now on. I suspect he'll have plenty to say but YAWN.
Thanks again to those who offered thoughtful feedback. This is a good website and I'm glad I found it, but like many online forums, unfortunately it has a troll problem.
Non Sequitur
Jan 27, 18 10:14 am
Hey cheapskate, you asked professionals for free advice. No wonder you’re treated like a spoiled child on the forums. How about you pay someone $200-$300 an hour for consultation, then maybe you’ll earn some respect.
Miles Jaffe
Jan 27, 18 10:00 am
uscpsycho hired somebody on Fivver for $50 to design his kitchen then came here for free advice.
That explains everything. Another self-appointed Master of the Universe with a little dough and even less brain. LOL Thanks for the laugh!
Non Sequitur
Jan 27, 18 10:21 am
Ikea does far better kitchens than what is shown in the renderings btw. I guess their $100 designer fee is too much.
Donna Sink
Jan 27, 18 11:01 am
That post was so uncalled for. You're happily admitting to cheaping out and exploiting global labor then soliciting free advice here and then you're complaining about it?
I haven't had my second cup of coffee yet so I'll consider until after but: what think you, Archinect regulars: should I nuke this whole thread? I can if I want, but if you all want to continue having fun I won't.
I was holding back my personal opinion on your design but since you got so nasty I won't hold back: any design that includes the same material on the floor and on an eating surface is fucking disgusting. Gross.
uscpsycho
Jan 27, 18 2:50 pm
Uncalled for? THIS is uncalled for!
I didn't exploit anyone. $50 is a lot of money in a lot of places. I'm not exploiting people any more than Amazon exploits people who work for them in India. We're not talking about Nike underpaying children in a sweatshop here.
I didn't have someone design an entire kitchen for $50. They got elevations from my WELL PAID designer and built a 3D model based on that. My designer doesn't do 3D. And they got a nice tip at the end too. If I am paying them what they ask for I don't see how I'm exploiting them. I didn't say "Do this for $50 or else!"
Wilma Buttfit
Jan 27, 18 11:16 am
Leave it as an example. That is prob a $70,000 kitchen this poor guy is trying to design and coordinate for $5. What could go wrong?
Non Sequitur
Jan 27, 18 11:41 am
Donna has nukes now? Ohhh, the power. I vote to leave it, the images can serves as good photoshop distraction.
Donna Sink
Jan 27, 18 1:30 pm
I still haven't had my second cup of coffee of the day and it's after lunch already so my patience is running thin.
randomised
Jan 27, 18 1:35 pm
No, don't nuke it, it's a great reference, there's even a wikipedia link to "internet troll" in here somewhere :)
Miles Jaffe
Jan 27, 18 1:56 pm
Nuking this thread would be the equivalent of swatting a fly with ... an ICBM.
Better would be to turn uscpsycho on to the Craigslist guy who does plans for $0.07 / s.f. But he probably couldn't afford that, either.
uscpsycho
Jan 27, 18 2:16 pm
You should nuke this thread, but please don't. Any neutral visitor will see it clearly.
I asked a simple question about the possibility of an optical illusion in design. This is no different than someone who isn't sure if Penzoil or Valvoline motor oil is best, and asks a mechanics' forum for a recommendation instead of hiring a lab. Getting advice from knowledgable people is the reason most online forums exist. I got some thoughtful responses and then for some completely inexplicable reason I got some dude all in my face about unrelated and irrelevant things.
So I called him out. Rightfully so. And then all his buddies run to his defense and get in my face too. You guys have no idea what you're talking about with respect to how I'm going about building this kitchen, who I hired and how much I paid. Lots of innuendo with no way to back it up. You're all trolls now too.
You might want to nuke this thread because Google is a thing these days. People might come across this thread when researching kitchens or islands or toe kicks or YOU. And they're going to see a bunch of truly unprofessional people. Not a good look for you personally or this forum as a whole. But what do I know.
Some of you are using your real names here and when potential employers or clients read this I promise you they will not take your side. They're going to see someone who came to politely ask a simple question and then got badgered for no reason at all. Looks bad for you. Not me.
randomised
Jan 27, 18 2:58 pm
"The "advice" I didn't ask for was shit."
This thread I didn't ask for is shite too...
Wilma Buttfit
Jan 27, 18 3:00 pm
Good point. And my employer knows I am a snarky one. They like it.
uscpsycho
Jan 27, 18 4:05 pm
I explained this in a reply above but I could see how it may have been missed. I have a professional kitchen designer who is well paid, who took measurements, and with whom I spent countless hours designing this kitchen. But my designer doesn't do renderings so I found someone who could make renderings from the designer's elevations. And for what I paid, I wasn't expecting perfect renderings or every detail to be just right. The main point of getting the renderings was to get a more realistic look at the kitchen, and more importantly to play with different colorways. If I needed perfect renderings I could have spent a lot more money to get them but it' not needed.
Nobody said I hired a designer for $50. Nobody said the renderings are accurate. Nobody asked for advice on any part of this kitchen other than the island base. Comments on the details of these renderings are a waste of time because they're inapplicable.
I guess everyone who asks a question online is a cheapskate.
This Thread is a fantastic example of pack mentality.
Non Sequitur
Jan 27, 18 4:05 pm
what is "well paid" in your opinion?
Non Sequitur
Jan 27, 18 4:47 pm
% of kitchen cost was what I was looking for.
randomised
Jan 28, 18 5:24 am
"I guess everyone who asks a question online is a cheapskate."
Nope, it's mostly you. You are a prime example, if anyone will ask me what a cheapskate is, I will direct them to this thread.
ken robeert
Jan 27, 18 4:29 pm
This is a test to see if the thread makes more sense?
Gloominati
Jan 27, 18 4:31 pm
I'd nuke it. I don't think the OP is for real in the first place. The renderings are too deliberately bad to be sincere, and if that wasn't obvious then he calls himself psycho for emphasis. There are some other forums that I visit that have standing policies against providing professional advice. Laymen are politely told that they can lurk or leave, but posts asking for advice are always removed. I vote for that approach.
Non Sequitur
Jan 27, 18 5:31 pm
Granted the renderings and design in general is rather awful, the same wanker has an identical post on houzz (see TC for link). Looks like it the real deal. Another more money than sense chap.
arch76
Jan 28, 18 12:51 am
Just so you know, all your comments are on super budget 3D renderings I hired someone in a foreign country from Fiverr to make for $50. They are not totally to scale and there was zero direction or attention given to the details, as you should have realized by the lack of any lights. This is not intended to be a realistic representation of every detail. Just look at the fridge and freezer handles which are ridiculously high. But I'll be sure to pass your feedback along to the chick on Fiverr who made these, I don't even know her real name.
So...as an owner or developer, you are OK with getting fleeced by your designer for these cheap, outsourced renderings, made by unnamed foreign nationals, that don't even show the real conditions of the project, but you are worried about some proportional discrepancy between slab and base? Are you still in school or something?
tduds
Jan 29, 18 2:36 pm
I always love when people on the internet spend several thousand words accusing others of having too much free time due to lack-of-work.
Miles Jaffe
Jan 29, 18 6:11 pm
Gotta love the way uscpsycho tried to squirm his way out of being called out as a cheapskate. First he took pride in having only paid $50, then he denied it.
Meanwhile the Houzz thread that Non posted on TC has hundreds of posts and months worth of anxious hand-wringing over every minute detail of appearance (but not function) - and that completely exposes psycho as a liar.
On top of that take a look at psycho's glass railing thread. There is clearly no designer involved here, either - which is of course why he's on all these forums begging for free help.
ARCHINECT: Please leave this thread up as a reference.
arch76
Jan 30, 18 12:09 am
I think uscpsycho is the designer, trying to conduct the Schematic Design phase through some sort of distributed design discussion process...I eagerly await what the CD phase will bring...
Below are renderings of my kitchen island. The white is a quartz border that wraps around the island. On top it is 3" thick and I want it to look uniform. I was advised by a kitchen designer that the bottom should be thicker, like 3.5" in order for it to look even all the way around. The designer is adamant that this is an optical illusion when you look down and if it is 3" on the bottom it will look smaller. So it should be intentionally made bigger.
In her words "Take a look at the various compensations made in classical Greek architecture to make various things look Flat, Parallel, Straight, the Same Size, the Same Distance apart by using bulges, tapers various sizes and uneven spacing. They had it all figured out."
Kinda makes sense but I have no idea who I could ask for a second opinion on this. Based on my other thread I was sure the architects here would have an opinion. Should I make the bottom thicker by half an inch? The same size? Some other size?
Thanks!
Is there something wrongs with trusting the designer you’ve, hopefully, paid for their advice?
Or, is this the case where this person is brushing you off because you ask complicated design questions and expect answers, and their time, for free... hence asking random strangers online?
I would ask her/him why is it vertical on one end and not the other. Also, I would advice against using a white material at the floor level, but you will use it and will remember me after you have a party and people sit on those stools. Toe kicks exist for a reason, and they are usually 4" tall.
In her words "Take a look at the various compensations made in classical Greek architecture to make various things look Flat, Parallel, Straight, the Same Size, the Same Distance apart by using bulges, tapers various sizes and uneven spacing. They had it all figured out."
True-
BUT the scale of distortion being referenced is a temple at a distance, not a counter you are 15' feet away. The easy way to test it would be to was a two strips of paper, 1 3" thick and the other 3." inches thick and tape it to your existing counter and ask if yourself if the distortion you see matters to you.
I would make all of the cabinet bases 4" tall. Partly because I agree with your designer, and partly because any less becomes a toe-catcher when you're actually trying to cook. Plus 4" is standard.
Nice looking kitchen, BTW. I like the asymmetrical island design. Making flush-looking appliances truly flush is a PIA but it can be done.
Entasis as a correction of optics is conjecture, not fact. Toe kicks being a standard height? That's a fact, but you can ignore it if you feel so inclined. Just send JLC a few beers every time you think about it.
Ze plane! Ze plane!
The reference to Greek architecture doesn't really apply, for reasons others have noted. But your designer is correct anyway. An example that's more similar in scale and viewing distance is the matting of a photo or artwork in a picture frame: if you make the distance the same all the way around then the framed item will usually be perceived to be closer to the bottom of the frame (I say usually because in some cases this perception can be altered by the composition of the photo or art - but that's not an issue in your case as what's framed is a solid uniform color.) Usually you don't center the piece in the matte - you locate it so that the border at the bottom is about 15% wider than the border at top and sides - and then when it's hung on the wall it appears to be centered.
Oh and also: if you have a robovac it will get stuck unless the toe kick slightly exceeds 3.5 inches.
Thanks guys.
Let me ask this another way. Let's say the designer is wrong about the optical illusion. But if I made that bottom edge 3.5" anyway would the variation be noticeable? And if it is noticeable, would it look like a mistake or might it look intentional?
There is an unrelated reason (nothing to do with optical illusions) I would want to make the lower edge 3.5" instead of 3", so illusion or not, if it will look OK I want to do it that way.
My existing kitchen isn't a good test bed for testing with paper strips, as someone recommended, but I suppose I could just tape them to a wall and see how it looks.
IF your room is big enough that you can get several feet away from the cabinets, and it looks like it probably is, the difference of 1/2" will be noticeable to detail-minded architects and craftspeople. Most people would not notice or care either way.
Everything looks different in a 2-D elevation or even a 3-D rendering than it does in real life. Everything.
I like how one will likely need a step stool to take anything out of the microwave.
I like the surface mounted doors and no overhang tops where everything that gets spilled goes straight into the cabinets. Brilliant. And somebody was (presumably) paid to do this shit.
The lighting is nice though...
The lighting is nice though...
LOL! I hadn't even noticed that.
uscpsycho, just out of curiosity - how much is the kitchen designer getting paid to 'design' this?
I'd make it all black so you wouldn't need Greek optical trickery...or all concrete top to bottom.
Appreciate those who responded with serious answers! Not so much the snarky comments outside the scope of my question.
I got the feedback I was hoping for. Internet is a great thing, just gotta take the good with the bad.
Like others I think the height looks fine but I'm more worried about having it flush to the cabinets (or even projecting out from them--it's hard to tell). You really DO need a toe kick at any functional cabinet space, otherwise you really do stub your toes and hurt your back trying to stand at the counter and worse yet, you will constantly take chips out of that thing with the vacuum.
I appreciate everyone's concern about my toe kicks but I do have toe kicks everywhere there is counter space. There is no toe kick on the sides of the island or under the island overhang because they aren't needed there but there is a toe kick on the front (cooktop side) of the island.
So what is your decision? Sorry for the snark--designers and architects have very thick skin, and assume others do (or should) as well.
He liked the responses that confirmed his desire, not the ones that challenged its viability.
I'm enjoying the vision of uscpsycho stubbing his toe on the vacuum-cleaner scraped and dented flush base and spilling his coffee, which runs over the flush edge of the countertop and behind the doors into the cabinets, and hoping that he remembers me when when he's standing there looking at that stupid, expensive, shitty mess that could have easily been completely avoided.
But the vision doesn't end there - I see him trying to sell the place in frustration, having paid his designer a small fortune for a large disservice and spent ridiculous sums geeching it up with glass railings and such that all the potential buyers run away from after seeing that stupid kitchen, which forces him to completely re-renovate or sell at a big loss just to get the hell out his self-created nightmare.
Hey Miles, let me guess. You don't get much work because you don't take direction well from bosses or clients. You have a bad attitude because you're a failure at your job so you go online to try to stir the pot. Right?
Why else would you have so much free time to tender advice which was not asked for and quite literally, in my previous post, it was made clear unrelated feedback was unwanted. I'm glad you've got the time and motivation to proffer advice to people who tell you they don't want it.
And not only that, you go on to see into the future as well! Like some sort of mystical soothsayer who moonlights, badly, as an architect. Let me look into your future: I see food stamps, welfare, dirty sleeping bags in public parks and cardboard boxes on sidewalks. I'm enjoying that vision!
Just so you know, all your comments are on super budget 3D renderings I hired someone in a foreign country from Fiverr to make for $50. They are not totally to scale and there was zero direction or attention given to the details, as you should have realized by the lack of any lights. This is not intended to be a realistic representation of every detail. Just look at the fridge and freezer handles which are ridiculously high. But I'll be sure to pass your feedback along to the chick on Fiverr who made these, I don't even know her real name.
Furthermore, that "flush base" is made out of quartz. So unless I get a vacuum cleaner made out of titanium or carbon fiber it is quite unlikely it's ever going to get dented. If anyone rams a vacuum cleaner into that quartz the vacuum is going to come out on the losing end. But you so smart! You know everything!
It's also pretty obvious that the counter and the base are the same material. What do you think my counters are made out of, MDF? You aren't big on detail, are you...
Not only that, but you either do not listen to the English words written on this forum or you have very poor reading comprehension. I said there is a toe kick on the working side of the island. A large percentage of kitchen islands -- especially modern ones -- do not have a toe kick all around as it is not needed on four sides. Waterfall edges are quite common on islands and they have no toe kick. This is done every day and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Suggesting that any able-bodied person is going to stub their toe on the side of a kitchen island is silly. If anyone has that problem I would advise them to steer clear of walls.
I feel sorry for anyone who engages you in the design of a kitchen. It might look like a fun house when it's done.
In the future I suggest you stay in your lane and not pull things out of your butt because you have nothing better to do.
My skin is plenty thick but Miles crossed way over the line from snark to internet troll. I have a strong policy against feeding trolls which I just violated but I wanted to point out the folly of his posts to everyone because it's kind of funny. Mr smartypants isn't so smart! In any case, I will not respond to any more messages from Miles, I've wasted enough of my time (and your time if you're reading this) on him so I'm going to ignore him from now on. I suspect he'll have plenty to say but YAWN.
Thanks again to those who offered thoughtful feedback. This is a good website and I'm glad I found it, but like many online forums, unfortunately it has a troll problem.
Hey cheapskate, you asked professionals for free advice. No wonder you’re treated like a spoiled child on the forums. How about you pay someone $200-$300 an hour for consultation, then maybe you’ll earn some respect.
uscpsycho hired somebody on Fivver for $50 to design his kitchen then came here for free advice.
That explains everything. Another self-appointed Master of the Universe with a little dough and even less brain. LOL Thanks for the laugh!
Ikea does far better kitchens than what is shown in the renderings btw. I guess their $100 designer fee is too much.
That post was so uncalled for. You're happily admitting to cheaping out and exploiting global labor then soliciting free advice here and then you're complaining about it?
I haven't had my second cup of coffee yet so I'll consider until after but: what think you, Archinect regulars: should I nuke this whole thread? I can if I want, but if you all want to continue having fun I won't.
I was holding back my personal opinion on your design but since you got so nasty I won't hold back: any design that includes the same material on the floor and on an eating surface is fucking disgusting. Gross.
Uncalled for? THIS is uncalled for!
I didn't exploit anyone. $50 is a lot of money in a lot of places. I'm not exploiting people any more than Amazon exploits people who work for them in India. We're not talking about Nike underpaying children in a sweatshop here.
I didn't have someone design an entire kitchen for $50. They got elevations from my WELL PAID designer and built a 3D model based on that. My designer doesn't do 3D. And they got a nice tip at the end too. If I am paying them what they ask for I don't see how I'm exploiting them. I didn't say "Do this for $50 or else!"
Leave it as an example. That is prob a $70,000 kitchen this poor guy is trying to design and coordinate for $5. What could go wrong?
Donna has nukes now? Ohhh, the power. I vote to leave it, the images can serves as good photoshop distraction.
I still haven't had my second cup of coffee of the day and it's after lunch already so my patience is running thin.
No, don't nuke it, it's a great reference, there's even a wikipedia link to "internet troll" in here somewhere :)
Nuking this thread would be the equivalent of swatting a fly with ... an ICBM.
Better would be to turn uscpsycho on to the Craigslist guy who does plans for $0.07 / s.f. But he probably couldn't afford that, either.
You should nuke this thread, but please don't. Any neutral visitor will see it clearly.
I asked a simple question about the possibility of an optical illusion in design. This is no different than someone who isn't sure if Penzoil or Valvoline motor oil is best, and asks a mechanics' forum for a recommendation instead of hiring a lab. Getting advice from knowledgable people is the reason most online forums exist. I got some thoughtful responses and then for some completely inexplicable reason I got some dude all in my face about unrelated and irrelevant things.
So I called him out. Rightfully so. And then all his buddies run to his defense and get in my face too. You guys have no idea what you're talking about with respect to how I'm going about building this kitchen, who I hired and how much I paid. Lots of innuendo with no way to back it up. You're all trolls now too.
You might want to nuke this thread because Google is a thing these days. People might come across this thread when researching kitchens or islands or toe kicks or YOU. And they're going to see a bunch of truly unprofessional people. Not a good look for you personally or this forum as a whole. But what do I know.
Some of you are using your real names here and when potential employers or clients read this I promise you they will not take your side. They're going to see someone who came to politely ask a simple question and then got badgered for no reason at all. Looks bad for you. Not me.
"The "advice" I didn't ask for was shit."
This thread I didn't ask for is shite too...
Good point. And my employer knows I am a snarky one. They like it.
I explained this in a reply above but I could see how it may have been missed. I have a professional kitchen designer who is well paid, who took measurements, and with whom I spent countless hours designing this kitchen. But my designer doesn't do renderings so I found someone who could make renderings from the designer's elevations. And for what I paid, I wasn't expecting perfect renderings or every detail to be just right. The main point of getting the renderings was to get a more realistic look at the kitchen, and more importantly to play with different colorways. If I needed perfect renderings I could have spent a lot more money to get them but it' not needed.
Nobody said I hired a designer for $50. Nobody said the renderings are accurate. Nobody asked for advice on any part of this kitchen other than the island base. Comments on the details of these renderings are a waste of time because they're inapplicable.
I guess everyone who asks a question online is a cheapskate.
This Thread is a fantastic example of pack mentality.
what is "well paid" in your opinion?
% of kitchen cost was what I was looking for.
"I guess everyone who asks a question online is a cheapskate."
Nope, it's mostly you. You are a prime example, if anyone will ask me what a cheapskate is, I will direct them to this thread.
This is a test to see if the thread makes more sense?
I'd nuke it. I don't think the OP is for real in the first place. The renderings are too deliberately bad to be sincere, and if that wasn't obvious then he calls himself psycho for emphasis. There are some other forums that I visit that have standing policies against providing professional advice. Laymen are politely told that they can lurk or leave, but posts asking for advice are always removed. I vote for that approach.
Granted the renderings and design in general is rather awful, the same wanker has an identical post on houzz (see TC for link). Looks like it the real deal. Another more money than sense chap.
Just so you know, all your comments are on super budget 3D renderings I hired someone in a foreign country from Fiverr to make for $50. They are not totally to scale and there was zero direction or attention given to the details, as you should have realized by the lack of any lights. This is not intended to be a realistic representation of every detail. Just look at the fridge and freezer handles which are ridiculously high. But I'll be sure to pass your feedback along to the chick on Fiverr who made these, I don't even know her real name.
So...as an owner or developer, you are OK with getting fleeced by your designer for these cheap, outsourced renderings, made by unnamed foreign nationals, that don't even show the real conditions of the project, but you are worried about some proportional discrepancy between slab and base? Are you still in school or something?
I always love when people on the internet spend several thousand words accusing others of having too much free time due to lack-of-work.
Gotta love the way uscpsycho tried to squirm his way out of being called out as a cheapskate. First he took pride in having only paid $50, then he denied it.
Meanwhile the Houzz thread that Non posted on TC has hundreds of posts and months worth of anxious hand-wringing over every minute detail of appearance (but not function) - and that completely exposes psycho as a liar.
On top of that take a look at psycho's glass railing thread. There is clearly no designer involved here, either - which is of course why he's on all these forums begging for free help.
ARCHINECT: Please leave this thread up as a reference.
I think uscpsycho is the designer, trying to conduct the Schematic Design phase through some sort of distributed design discussion process...I eagerly await what the CD phase will bring...