What is it like to work at large firms like Gensler or SOM? How much design does a typical architect at one of these firms get to do? I’m currently an architecture student and I am really interested in the projects that large corporate firms get to do but I’m worried I’ll rarely get to design if I work at one of these firms. I fully anticipate my first 3-4 years out of college to be very mundane work with basically no design opportunities. I worry though that even later in my career at a large firm I would be doing very little design. Any feedback would be great!
BulgarBlogger
Dec 28, 17 4:25 pm
A lot of people mistake “design” for the big brush strokes- the big sweeping gestures often seen in sketches by starchitects like Renzo Piano, Zaha, etc. At large firms, these are done by the principals, lead designers, or design directors charged with overseeing the project and reviewing final shop drawings.
What is meant by “design” in job postings by large corporate offices is a bit more nuanced. It can still have a broad scope, but often, it isn’t as glamorous as you might think. I would wager that the most glamorous design work you may end up doing is a charette for a competition that the firm ends up winning.
Beyond that, it really depends on the stage of the project...
In the pre-design/site selection phase you might be doing presentations to clients that define the exterior envelope according to zoning and code regulations. In other words translating the zoning feasibility study into something a little more “specific.”
In the schematic design phase, you may be doing an analysis of where to locate the core and the egress components, where to locatr parking- in other words translating the program into something more specific.
In the design development phase, you start researching materials and components and referecing code sections to see if a material is allwable and contacting material sourcers and manufacturers to see if quantities are available for a specific price.
In the CD phase, you are “designing” all the shit no o e wanted to deal with during the previous phases- perimeter heating enclosures, access panel locations relative to sprinkler heads and lights, hand rails blah blah blah.
During the CA phase you design all the shit you got wrong because no one gave a fuck.
And let me remind you- at the big firms, you most likely won’t get to be a design lead, director, or partner until you have spent at least several years there, so get used to the fact thar even as a “senior designer”, you still won’t have the freedom you may imagine to have by virtue of the word “design” (or portion thereof) in the job description.
archanonymous
Dec 28, 17 5:12 pm
This is the best summary of design phases ever - no matter what kind of firm you work at!
archanonymous
Dec 28, 17 5:20 pm
I have been at a big firm for like 20 months and have 8 years experience (previously at a small boutique, a mid-size, and a small design-build firm) and I find that it is actually wide-open in terms of design opportunities if you can avoid the mega-projects and high-profile things everyone wants to design.
I would certainly have more authorship if I worked for myself but I would certainly have less if I worked somewhere like Gang, Zumthor, BIG, etc where the ideas flow from one or two places. I also can only think of a handful of boutique firms in my city who could win the types of small and medium projects I get to work on here, let alone the mega-projects and infrastructure stuff.
The process Bulgar describes (designing and detailing from concept through CA) is set up in a way that I feel more OWNERSHIP over the projects here, even if I don't have authorship. Ultimately, though, I don't think it is that difficult to get into a position where you do have at least some authorship, at least more so than my colleagues who work at the firms that are about one practitioner.
With SOM, you kinda know what you are getting with minor variation office-to-office. With Gensler, though, each office is so different and each principal or studio leader so different that you would really need to ask specifically about the city you are looking at.
randomised
Dec 29, 17 8:25 am
What kind of work? Stuff that's been done before and has been done much better.
thisisnotmyname
Dec 29, 17 8:45 am
I once worked under a "Director of Design" who generally wouldn't approve any idea unless we could pin up a photograph of where someone else had done it before.
randomised
Dec 29, 17 2:05 pm
That must have been fun.
Medusa
Dec 31, 17 9:59 am
I've spent the past 10 years working at large firms similar to Gensler and SOM. As a new grad, you will not get to do any "design" as per the popular definition of the term, but you will learn a shit ton about working with large teams and delivering complex projects. You also have to change your mindset about the definition of "design". Anything that happens on a project should be approached from a design mindset, whether you are responsible for the design concept and form of the building, writing specs, or working out details. Even doing a door schedule is a design task. Every little detail is a design task, not just the final money shot that gets published in magazines.
sameolddoctor
Dec 31, 17 12:22 pm
If you have it in you, you will probably end up doing much more design at a larger firm than a home-remodel small firm. Although, you stand the chance to learn a lot more about construction in a smaller firm.
zg_a
Dec 31, 17 12:32 pm
At SOM, if you've got talent and hired as a designer, you can design things as a junior level employee. Depending on who you're working with, the senior level people filter out the ideas generated from junior level people. It can be very ground-up (design-wise) there.
archanonymous
Dec 31, 17 12:40 pm
Whether you go to work at a big corporate firm, a small mom n pop shop or something in between, you can't escape the reality that broad sweeping strokes of "design" - the concept or parti and massing of a building is only maybe 10% of the job. The rest is detail design, spreadsheets, schedules, bullshit, building departments etc, all of which have to be handled with the utmost care and "design thinking" if you are to make a good building.
In fact, at a big firm that allows employees to specialize, you probably have the best chance (though still small at like 5-10%) of always doing concept design by being a Senior Designer or Design Director. Small firm you gotta do it all, not just the concept design. Mid-size tend to be firms that are about a handful of principals who hired staff so they could just do all the concept design. There are rare exceptions to this.
BulgarBlogger
Dec 31, 17 2:30 pm
Nope- disagree. This is the mantra almost developed as a coping mechanism by those who “actually design” for those who produce.
Yes- in theory, everything involved in making a building come into existence is part of the design process. But when at client parties etc, firm ownership refers to aspects of that process by saying, “oh we have people for that,” versus “so and so is responsible for designing blah blah,” that creates a clear distinction about what role people have at various firms.
And if I can make over 100k doing 5-10% of the work and take the glamour and fame, I would do it any day over earning 80-90k for figuring out how that design works with no fame and glamour. So stop making excuses. We all know that being a designer at a large firm is more “prestigious.” Anything but at a large firm is just yet another anonymous number in the production staff...
archanonymous
Dec 31, 17 3:08 pm
I think you are making my point for me. Other than owning your own shop, or the very rare mid-size firm, the only place you can work where you can get into a position to truly do the concept design only is... a big firm.
Peter Normand
Jan 1, 18 3:12 pm
The design opportunities are almost directly proportional to your ability to communicate them effectively. You need to know Revit and the 3d rendering software your firms prefer to use. I was on a temp gig at a big firm and I got to design some interior spaces mostly because I could render them and provide a set of drawings the contractors overseas could build from. If you can't document and or dimension the design it is hard to build it correctly. Also take every design opportunity seriously because how you execute (on time with few mistakes) will open or close opportunities to do more of what you want.
BulgarBlogger
Jan 1, 18 5:57 pm
What did you do, Peter - design some generic interiors with ACT and called that a "design opportunity". Give me a break...
What is it like to work at large firms like Gensler or SOM? How much design does a typical architect at one of these firms get to do? I’m currently an architecture student and I am really interested in the projects that large corporate firms get to do but I’m worried I’ll rarely get to design if I work at one of these firms. I fully anticipate my first 3-4 years out of college to be very mundane work with basically no design opportunities. I worry though that even later in my career at a large firm I would be doing very little design. Any feedback would be great!
A lot of people mistake “design” for the big brush strokes- the big sweeping gestures often seen in sketches by starchitects like Renzo Piano, Zaha, etc. At large firms, these are done by the principals, lead designers, or design directors charged with overseeing the project and reviewing final shop drawings.
What is meant by “design” in job postings by large corporate offices is a bit more nuanced. It can still have a broad scope, but often, it isn’t as glamorous as you might think. I would wager that the most glamorous design work you may end up doing is a charette for a competition that the firm ends up winning.
Beyond that, it really depends on the stage of the project...
In the pre-design/site selection phase you might be doing presentations to clients that define the exterior envelope according to zoning and code regulations. In other words translating the zoning feasibility study into something a little more “specific.”
In the schematic design phase, you may be doing an analysis of where to locate the core and the egress components, where to locatr parking- in other words translating the program into something more specific.
In the design development phase, you start researching materials and components and referecing code sections to see if a material is allwable and contacting material sourcers and manufacturers to see if quantities are available for a specific price.
In the CD phase, you are “designing” all the shit no o e wanted to deal with during the previous phases- perimeter heating enclosures, access panel locations relative to sprinkler heads and lights, hand rails blah blah blah.
During the CA phase you design all the shit you got wrong because no one gave a fuck.
And let me remind you- at the big firms, you most likely won’t get to be a design lead, director, or partner until you have spent at least several years there, so get used to the fact thar even as a “senior designer”, you still won’t have the freedom you may imagine to have by virtue of the word “design” (or portion thereof) in the job description.
This is the best summary of design phases ever - no matter what kind of firm you work at!
I have been at a big firm for like 20 months and have 8 years experience (previously at a small boutique, a mid-size, and a small design-build firm) and I find that it is actually wide-open in terms of design opportunities if you can avoid the mega-projects and high-profile things everyone wants to design.
I would certainly have more authorship if I worked for myself but I would certainly have less if I worked somewhere like Gang, Zumthor, BIG, etc where the ideas flow from one or two places. I also can only think of a handful of boutique firms in my city who could win the types of small and medium projects I get to work on here, let alone the mega-projects and infrastructure stuff.
The process Bulgar describes (designing and detailing from concept through CA) is set up in a way that I feel more OWNERSHIP over the projects here, even if I don't have authorship. Ultimately, though, I don't think it is that difficult to get into a position where you do have at least some authorship, at least more so than my colleagues who work at the firms that are about one practitioner.
With SOM, you kinda know what you are getting with minor variation office-to-office. With Gensler, though, each office is so different and each principal or studio leader so different that you would really need to ask specifically about the city you are looking at.
What kind of work? Stuff that's been done before and has been done much better.
I once worked under a "Director of Design" who generally wouldn't approve any idea unless we could pin up a photograph of where someone else had done it before.
That must have been fun.
I've spent the past 10 years working at large firms similar to Gensler and SOM. As a new grad, you will not get to do any "design" as per the popular definition of the term, but you will learn a shit ton about working with large teams and delivering complex projects. You also have to change your mindset about the definition of "design". Anything that happens on a project should be approached from a design mindset, whether you are responsible for the design concept and form of the building, writing specs, or working out details. Even doing a door schedule is a design task. Every little detail is a design task, not just the final money shot that gets published in magazines.
If you have it in you, you will probably end up doing much more design at a larger firm than a home-remodel small firm. Although, you stand the chance to learn a lot more about construction in a smaller firm.
At SOM, if you've got talent and hired as a designer, you can design things as a junior level employee. Depending on who you're working with, the senior level people filter out the ideas generated from junior level people. It can be very ground-up (design-wise) there.
Whether you go to work at a big corporate firm, a small mom n pop shop or something in between, you can't escape the reality that broad sweeping strokes of "design" - the concept or parti and massing of a building is only maybe 10% of the job. The rest is detail design, spreadsheets, schedules, bullshit, building departments etc, all of which have to be handled with the utmost care and "design thinking" if you are to make a good building.
In fact, at a big firm that allows employees to specialize, you probably have the best chance (though still small at like 5-10%) of always doing concept design by being a Senior Designer or Design Director. Small firm you gotta do it all, not just the concept design. Mid-size tend to be firms that are about a handful of principals who hired staff so they could just do all the concept design. There are rare exceptions to this.
Nope- disagree. This is the mantra almost developed as a coping mechanism by those who “actually design” for those who produce.
Yes- in theory, everything involved in making a building come into existence is part of the design process. But when at client parties etc, firm ownership refers to aspects of that process by saying, “oh we have people for that,” versus “so and so is responsible for designing blah blah,” that creates a clear distinction about what role people have at various firms.
And if I can make over 100k doing 5-10% of the work and take the glamour and fame, I would do it any day over earning 80-90k for figuring out how that design works with no fame and glamour. So stop making excuses. We all know that being a designer at a large firm is more “prestigious.” Anything but at a large firm is just yet another anonymous number in the production staff...
I think you are making my point for me. Other than owning your own shop, or the very rare mid-size firm, the only place you can work where you can get into a position to truly do the concept design only is... a big firm.
The design opportunities are almost directly proportional to your ability to communicate them effectively. You need to know Revit and the 3d rendering software your firms prefer to use. I was on a temp gig at a big firm and I got to design some interior spaces mostly because I could render them and provide a set of drawings the contractors overseas could build from. If you can't document and or dimension the design it is hard to build it correctly. Also take every design opportunity seriously because how you execute (on time with few mistakes) will open or close opportunities to do more of what you want.
What did you do, Peter - design some generic interiors with ACT and called that a "design opportunity". Give me a break...
I design my own opportunities...